Freedom Planet

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-03 09:57:01 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-02 10:31:45 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-02 06:50:52 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-01 12:40:15 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-01 12:39:30 pm

Fladervy: 2015-07-31 06:35:02 pm

Fladervy: 2015-07-31 06:34:46 pm

2015-07-29 08:56:03 pm

Amazing race guys Cheesy

Here's an optimization to the SB route.

Edit: and I improved the submarine strat posted earlier.

Edit4:
After Lilac gets past the half-pipe, the submarine movement cycle gets really annoying. Jumping into the frog is barely possible because it's ascending. This also prevents Lilac to get to the ladder directly from the half-pipe.
Also, during the upwards boost, the submarine is descending, making the slope boost way harder and less efficient.

Edit2:

I cleaned up the enemies below before doing this because Milla is supposed to have a metal shield from SB. For IL runs, a simple hop might be the best solution to avoid them.

Edit3:

The timing for the throw is stricter than it looks.

Edit5:

This zip doesn't save time, because of the laser cycle.
However, if I find a way to get to the flower before the laser shot, it might be possible to climb to the fire shield before the next one. This would make the climb a cycle faster.

Amazing race guys :D

Here's an optimization to the SB route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QirXiFoz8

Edit: and I improved the submarine strat posted earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka68Ewobyxk

Edit4:
After Lilac gets past the half-pipe, the submarine movement cycle gets really annoying. Jumping into the frog is barely possible because it's ascending. This also prevents Lilac to get to the ladder directly from the half-pipe.
Also, during the upwards boost, the submarine is descending, making the slope boost way harder and less efficient.

Edit2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwhNg8pjsRY

I cleaned up the enemies below before doing this because Milla is supposed to have a metal shield from SB. For IL runs, a simple hop might be the best solution to avoid them.

Edit3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlFyIR0J5cc

The timing for the throw is stricter than it looks.

Edit5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unblTFC-3qk

This zip doesn't save time, because of the laser cycle.
However, if I find a way to get to the flower before the laser shot, it might be possible to climb to the fire shield before the next one. This would make the climb a cycle faster.

Mylexsi

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-08-06 10:13:18 am

2015-08-06 10:10:37 am

Slight alteration to Dail strat, right at the start.
If gotten right, it shaves about 3 seconds off.
If gotten wrong, it's the same speed as before, but easier/more consistent.

If the centre of Lilac is not at least 1/3rd the way up the notch on the wall when you bounce off it the 2nd time, it is unlikely you will be able to get all 3 hits on Dail before you fall out of range. In this case, just bounce a 3rd time.
Careful to use as little meter as possible in the beginning; it doesn't recharge during the 'cutscene', and the first hit after the fight begins properly becomes very hard if you have to wait more than a moment for it to recharge.
I brain-damage one hit for consistency's sake only it's a time loss, but a perfect Dail is ungodly hard.

As a side note: This kill is 5-6s slower than it should've been because Dail went to the right one more time than he should've.
For the record, this happens when you damage him very close to when he uses the lightning bolts, but not close enough to cancel the attack.

Slight alteration to Dail strat, right at the start.
If gotten right, it shaves about 3 seconds off.
If gotten wrong, it's the same speed as before, but easier/more consistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TZ_ldORxSs

If the centre of Lilac is not at least 1/3rd the way up the notch on the wall when you bounce off it the 2nd time, it is unlikely you will be able to get all 3 hits on Dail before you fall out of range. In this case, just bounce a 3rd time.
Careful to use as little meter as possible in the beginning; it doesn't recharge during the 'cutscene', and the first hit after the fight begins properly becomes very hard if you have to wait more than a moment for it to recharge.
I brain-damage one hit for consistency's sake only it's a time loss, but a perfect Dail is ungodly hard.

As a side note: This kill is 5-6s slower than it should've been because Dail went to the right one more time than he should've.
For the record, this happens when you damage him very close to when he uses the lightning bolts, but not close enough to cancel the attack.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-09 05:13:26 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-09 08:37:49 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-07 11:11:43 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-07 11:11:35 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-07 11:11:34 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-07 11:01:58 am

2015-08-06 01:15:11 pm

The snake goes to the top of the screen before throwing rocks. Sending it to the top shortens this animation and saves 1-1,5 second.

Edit:

This zip saves 2-3 seconds. I think it's too hard for full runs.

johannhowitzer

2015-08-09 03:32:22 pm

Viking it up

First video tutorial done.

This is also posted on /r/speedrun, so if you use Reddit, please upvote and if you like comment, to support this and draw more people to the community.

https://www.reddit.com/r/speedrun/comments/3gcmz5/freedom_planet_lilac_video_tutorials/

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-11 06:10:12 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-10 05:51:41 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-09 06:38:58 pm

2015-08-09 06:36:47 pm

The boost should have been done as far to the right as possible.

Edit:

Continuation of the other FN1 video.

Edit2:

Mylexsi

2015-08-13 11:08:26 am

Re: Jade Creek Submarine:
Tried that many, many times, done it once; not too reliable since the boxes tend to inconsistently break.

Same with FN; I messed around with those springs for absolutely ages before I even got through that gap once.

SB miniboss strat is great though.
Combine it with a 2nd uppercut-cyclone to exit with for optimum-ness.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-15 10:00:05 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-15 09:59:27 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-15 09:55:25 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-14 08:50:12 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-14 08:49:17 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-13 08:19:04 pm

2015-08-13 05:02:51 pm

This zip saves around 35 seconds, because it skips the squid keycard.

Edit:

This zip saves around 15 seconds.

Edit2:
A setup for the FD2 elevators zips:

This is the visual cue I'm using for them. Align Milla with vertical line and start moving right when the elevator crosses the horizontal line.

And when Milla is about to touch the ceiling, turn and boost.

I'm not sure on how much time doing this perfectly saves.

Mylexsi

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-08-15 01:05:09 pm

2015-08-15 01:03:35 pm

Couple of minor things on DV with Lilac.

A backup strat...

And a strat that isn't actually any faster, but maybe the idea behind it can be used somewhere else?
Or, it could be optimised, perhaps. The jump off the wall seems random and removable, but if you don't, you (somehow) crash into the bridge and fall back down instead.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-15 02:01:53 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-15 01:51:44 pm

2015-08-15 01:42:56 pm

This zip saves around 35 seconds. Be careful to not restart too early.
FD2 Milla is extremely broken now.

johannhowitzer

Edit history:

johannhowitzer: 2015-08-15 07:36:23 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-08-15 06:48:23 pm

johannhowitzer: 2015-08-15 06:44:49 pm

2015-08-15 06:24:07 pm

Viking it up

Leaderboard stuff!

Concerning starting a stage with a shield

This hasn't been an issue until recently, but now we as a community need to discuss what should be done. Times are getting to the point that someone's going to get one that won't be beatable without a shield, perhaps even the same shield as the WR started with. It's possible to use a CLEAR file, or several CLEAR files, to store any shield you want, and take it to the stage you're doing attempts on. This means things like starting Sky Battlion with a metal shield to ignore the Metal Ship's first electricity bars; starting Relic Maze with a shield to tank the hit from the first pickaxe; starting Final Dreadnought 1 with a shield to completely ignore the first pylon cycle...

There are four ways we can go with this:

1) No shields are allowed upon stage start for IL videos
This would obsolete many videos already on the leaderboard, including many WRs. Jade Creek and Final Dreadnought 4 would be the biggest sufferers. It would also make it harder to get new IL records in full runs on certain stages... such as Jade Creek and Final Dreadnought 4. Plus side is completely even footing in the Time Attack menu, and no need to keep several files for each shield you want to import to stage attempts.

2) Shields are allowed as long as your time could be broken without it
This could be a little tricky in some cases. It does prevent things like importing a shield so you can damage boost without recoil, but it may not be clear in every case whether the shield helped, and we don't want to reject videos that should be accepted.

3) Shields are allowed as long as the current full-game route passes near them in a previous stage
Another potentially tricky option, as the route is somewhat subjective and certain shields are near-ish to the route and might have been picked up in the previous stage if it went poorly. There is likely to be difference of opinion on whether some times should be accepted or rejected.

4) All shields are allowed in all stages
This is the current policy, due to the absence of an intentionally set policy. It allows for some interesting strategies, but would potentially make it harder or even impossible to get a new record in a full run, and attempts will often be done from clear files rather than the time attack menu. You would get the shield you want from a stage, finish the stage, let the next stage load, quit to the menu, and select the stage you want to do attempts on. The shield will remain on the file until you let a stage load after losing it; if you complete a stage after losing the shield and you didn't get a new record and you want to keep the shield, you can just hit F2. Note that while Battle Glacier from a clear file requires you to play the shmup on every attempt, no one would use this trick for Battle Glacier, as the most desirable shield by far for that stage, the earth shield, is available at the start.

Discuss the above! And also the below!

Concerning World Records with broken video links

I've noticed that a fair amount of World Record videos now have broken links. As a result, there is the possibility that there's a strategy contained in those videos that is lost to the void - in fact, for tailow's Shang Mu videos, this is definitely true. As a World Record video serves as the benchmark for the stage or full run it contains, and one of the leaderboard's main purposes is to make current strategies freely accessible to everyone, I am considering obsoleting any World Record for which the video link has been broken. If a #1 time were to be obsoleted in this way, the mantle would then pass to #2, since that would be the new #1, and if that video link is also broken, it would also be obsoleted.

Similar to what happened after the Mantalith phase skip was removed in a patch, any record with a broken link will be highlighted red and moved to the bottom of its section, with an editor comment indicating the link is broken, and the ingame time will be removed. Anyone wishing to re-establish a record they held can then re-submit their time with a new video link. Both Twitch and YouTube never automatically expire videos you intend to save, and those are the only services anyone has used to submit videos, so I don't see any issue with this. In my opinion, if you have deleted the video intentionally, you should be considered to have given up your leaderboard spot.

This is also to encourage people who have found a new strategy to share the strategy with others, rather than submitting the video, waiting for the time to be moved onto the main leaderboard, and then intentionally deleting the video in order to destroy evidence of the strategy used. (I don't have any reason to believe this has happened so far.)

My number one purpose in running the leaderboard is to serve the community. I will never enact a policy for selfish reasons, so if you disagree with a policy I've put in place, please make your case to me and if your arguments make sense and you can change my mind, I will alter or remove the policy.

[size="28"]Leaderboard stuff![/size]

[size="20"][u]Concerning starting a stage with a shield[/u][/size]

This hasn't been an issue until recently, but now we as a community need to discuss what should be done.  Times are getting to the point that someone's going to get one that won't be beatable without a shield, perhaps even the same shield as the WR started with.  It's possible to use a CLEAR file, or several CLEAR files, to store any shield you want, and take it to the stage you're doing attempts on.  This means things like starting Sky Battlion with a metal shield to ignore the Metal Ship's first electricity bars; starting Relic Maze with a shield to tank the hit from the first pickaxe; starting Final Dreadnought 1 with a shield to completely ignore the first pylon cycle...

There are four ways we can go with this:

[u]1) No shields are allowed upon stage start for IL videos[/u]
This would obsolete many videos already on the leaderboard, including many WRs.  Jade Creek and Final Dreadnought 4 would be the biggest sufferers.  It would also make it harder to get new IL records in full runs on certain stages... such as Jade Creek and Final Dreadnought 4.  Plus side is completely even footing in the Time Attack menu, and no need to keep several files for each shield you want to import to stage attempts.

[u]2) Shields are allowed as long as your time could be broken without it[/u]
This could be a little tricky in some cases.  It does prevent things like importing a shield so you can damage boost without recoil, but it may not be clear in every case whether the shield helped, and we don't want to reject videos that should be accepted.

[u]3) Shields are allowed as long as the current full-game route passes near them in a previous stage[/u]
Another potentially tricky option, as the route is somewhat subjective and certain shields are near-ish to the route and might have been picked up in the previous stage if it went poorly.  There is likely to be difference of opinion on whether some times should be accepted or rejected.

[u]4) All shields are allowed in all stages[/u]
This is the current policy, due to the absence of an intentionally set policy.  It allows for some interesting strategies, but would potentially make it harder or even impossible to get a new record in a full run, and attempts will often be done from clear files rather than the time attack menu.  You would get the shield you want from a stage, finish the stage, let the next stage load, quit to the menu, and select the stage you want to do attempts on.  The shield will remain on the file until you let a stage load after losing it; if you complete a stage after losing the shield and you didn't get a new record and you want to keep the shield, you can just hit F2.  Note that while Battle Glacier from a clear file requires you to play the shmup on every attempt, no one would use this trick for Battle Glacier, as the most desirable shield by far for that stage, the earth shield, is available at the start.

Discuss the above!  And also the below!

[size="20"][u]Concerning World Records with broken video links[/u][/size]

I've noticed that a fair amount of World Record videos now have broken links.  As a result, there is the possibility that there's a strategy contained in those videos that is lost to the void - in fact, for tailow's Shang Mu videos, this is definitely true.  As a World Record video serves as the benchmark for the stage or full run it contains, and one of the leaderboard's main purposes is to make current strategies freely accessible to everyone, I am considering obsoleting any World Record for which the video link has been broken.  If a #1 time were to be obsoleted in this way, the mantle would then pass to #2, since that would be the new #1, and if that video link is also broken, it would also be obsoleted.

Similar to what happened after the Mantalith phase skip was removed in a patch, any record with a broken link will be highlighted red and moved to the bottom of its section, with an editor comment indicating the link is broken, and the ingame time will be removed.  Anyone wishing to re-establish a record they held can then re-submit their time with a new video link.  Both Twitch and YouTube never automatically expire videos you intend to save, and those are the only services anyone has used to submit videos, so I don't see any issue with this.  In my opinion, if you have deleted the video intentionally, you should be considered to have given up your leaderboard spot.

This is also to encourage people who have found a new strategy to share the strategy with others, rather than submitting the video, waiting for the time to be moved onto the main leaderboard, and then intentionally deleting the video in order to destroy evidence of the strategy used.  (I don't have any reason to believe this has happened so far.)

My number one purpose in running the leaderboard is to serve the community.  I will never enact a policy for selfish reasons, so if you disagree with a policy I've put in place, please make your case to me and if your arguments make sense and you can change my mind, I will alter or remove the policy.

johannhowitzer

2015-08-15 06:43:38 pm

Viking it up

Concerning new leaderboard features!

Some ideas have been proposed to me for features to add to the leaderboard, and I've also had some ideas myself, and I'd like some input on them. Here's a rather exhaustive list of what we could do, rather than a list of what I'm strongly considering. You may also have noticed the link at the top of Lilac's page to the video tutorials for her; if anyone else makes tutorials for any character, they will be hosted on the leaderboard in this way.

1) A "welcome" tab in the first tab slot that explains how to use the leaderboard, and the rules that determine whether a video will be accepted or rejected.

2) A "speedrunners" tab after the main character tabs, listing the runners for each character alphabetically. Runners would be able to request a single video to put next to their name as their proudest accomplishment. We could separate the lists by character, or combine the lists and mark the characters that runner plays next to their name.

3) Datestamps for all future submissions. Rather than the date submitted, this would be the date the linked video was posted, in order to get as close as possible to the moment the time was achieved. Thus, all current leaderboard entries can be retroactively datestamped. This information would mostly be useful as additional clues to people learning the game about which video might contain newer strategies; it also provides flavor as people would be able to see whether someone beat someone else's time, or if the person with the slower time is approaching the person ahead of them.

4) Requiring a comment for each submission. I'm not a huge fan of this, but if other people like the idea we can do it; this would spice up the leaderboard a little, showing more of the personalities behind the runs. Current leaderboard entries would not be affected.

5) A separate submission form for questions. This would allow people to contact us directly, knowing only the leaderboard link. Not everyone wants to make an SDA or Steam account (if they got the game DRM-free or for Wii U), people might be asleep or otherwise offline, and the google chat the page automatically supports has not served very well in this regard. People can also share the leaderboard link with more people, and those new people will be able to contact us directly without needing to add our Steam names to their friend list.

[u][size="20"]Concerning new leaderboard features![/size][/u]

Some ideas have been proposed to me for features to add to the leaderboard, and I've also had some ideas myself, and I'd like some input on them.  Here's a rather exhaustive list of what we could do, rather than a list of what I'm strongly considering.  You may also have noticed the link at the top of Lilac's page to the video tutorials for her; if anyone else makes tutorials for any character, they will be hosted on the leaderboard in this way.

1) A "welcome" tab in the first tab slot that explains how to use the leaderboard, and the rules that determine whether a video will be accepted or rejected.

2) A "speedrunners" tab after the main character tabs, listing the runners for each character alphabetically.  Runners would be able to request a single video to put next to their name as their proudest accomplishment.  We could separate the lists by character, or combine the lists and mark the characters that runner plays next to their name.

3) Datestamps for all future submissions.  Rather than the date submitted, this would be the date the linked video was posted, in order to get as close as possible to the moment the time was achieved.  Thus, all current leaderboard entries can be retroactively datestamped.  This information would mostly be useful as additional clues to people learning the game about which video might contain newer strategies; it also provides flavor as people would be able to see whether someone beat someone else's time, or if the person with the slower time is approaching the person ahead of them.

4) Requiring a comment for each submission.  I'm not a huge fan of this, but if other people like the idea we can do it; this would spice up the leaderboard a little, showing more of the personalities behind the runs.  Current leaderboard entries would not be affected.

5) A separate submission form for questions.  This would allow people to contact us directly, knowing only the leaderboard link.  Not everyone wants to make an SDA or Steam account (if they got the game DRM-free or for Wii U), people might be asleep or otherwise offline, and the google chat the page automatically supports has not served very well in this regard.  People can also share the leaderboard link with more people, and those new people will be able to contact us directly without needing to add our Steam names to their friend list.

Mylexsi

2015-08-15 09:12:52 pm

Shields
I've said it before. My stance on this is basically "no shields"; I'm of the opinion that ILs should be done in a vacuum. However, I don't think we should take times away from epople who just happened to get it in a full game run and the shield didn't interfere. So, overall, it's "you can have a shield, but it's not allowed to have any impact on your time". And I'd say the 3 of us are intimate enough with the game to tell that. I know I wound up unsure on Flad's vid. That's kinda a massive outlier though.

Features
1) Absolutely do this. People miss the tabs on the bottom all the time. I did at first, too.

2) Not bothered one way or the other.

3) See 2

4) No thanks. Sometimes I just have nothing to say. Can show my personality if I want, and if I don't, then I don't have to. I like it that way.

5) Probably a good idea.

Fladervy

2015-08-15 10:09:02 pm

Shields: My stance is the same as Mylexsi's. No shields, unless it doesn't interfere on the run.

Features:
1- The leaderboard needs a feature like this.

2- Not interested. It might be good if we have a lot more runners in the future.

3- I would like to see this.

4- No, I prefer leaving them as optional.

5- Good idea.

GregSiris

2015-08-15 11:38:01 pm

Shields: I'm boarding the same boat as Flad and Mylexsi.

Features
========
1: Yeah, this sounds pretty useful; especially for new people.

2: Maybe? It doesn't sound too useful right now though as small as we are.

3: I'm pretty much completely neutral on this.

4: Should be optional.

5: Sounds good.

johannhowitzer

2015-08-16 01:42:31 am

Viking it up

Are people okay with obsoleting WR times with broken video links?

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-16 11:46:45 am

2015-08-16 09:24:17 am

As you said, the #1 time is supposed to be a benchmark of the stage. So the time should be removed if the link is broken.

Edit: Regarding difficulty settings. Will we continue rejecting runs done on easy/casual?

GregSiris

2015-08-16 06:53:40 pm

Yeah, removing them should be fine. As for difficulties, it might be a good idea to investigate both for worth while differences, like boss pattens and stuff. Something that I just thought of; anyone every look to see if the laser in FD4 does less damage on easy/casual?

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-17 05:21:00 am

2015-08-17 05:04:51 am

Some worthwhile differences are:
- Regen;
- Shields have more health (Lilac and Carol);
- Milla does more damage (shield burts and super shield bursts);
- The damage received is halved on casual.

The laser in FD4 still one-shots Lilac/Carol on easy, unless a regen tick happens during the attack. On casual, the laser can't even 2-shot them.

Mylexsi

2015-08-17 03:40:59 pm

yeah, remove broken links.

Not a fan of easy/casual in general, though I have to admit damage boosting up the whole laser room would be pretty funny to watch.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-17 07:46:22 pm

Fladervy: 2015-08-17 06:04:19 pm

2015-08-17 06:03:13 pm

Milla can flutter and create a block at the same time.

It seems hitting a ceiling is a requirement for this trick. I have to do more tests to confirm this.
Edit: actually, Milla must be descending in order to do this.

GregSiris

2015-08-17 06:26:06 pm

Not sold at all on easy, but it seems like casual might be worth it's own catagory for full runs.

Quote from Fladervy:

Milla can flutter and create a block at the same time.

It seems hitting a ceiling is a requirement for this trick. I have to do more tests to confirm this.

Does this mean you can grab boxes and stuff while fluttering?

Dorkdav

2015-08-17 08:48:53 pm

Not sure if you can grab boxes but you can do fun stuff like this.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-18 07:03:52 pm

2015-08-18 05:27:50 am

Do you know more details about this trick? Looks like Milla can gain as much height as she wants to with proper timing, and maybe do some interesting skips.

Edit: After playing a bit with this, I realized that the trick happens by:
- Being descending after finishing a shield burst (it works with normal ones too, but the timing is different);
- Holding jump and block when the burst animation ends.

SuccinctAndPunchy

Edit history:

SuccinctAndPunchy: 2015-08-20 07:23:04 am

2015-08-20 07:22:41 am

You're not here.

Quote from johannhowitzer:

Are people okay with obsoleting WR times with broken video links?

A record with no record of the record is not a record. Remove em.

as for Easy/Casual, I actually just did a random quick and dirty Casual run for Milla out of curiosity and beat like most of my IL PBs by hilariously wide margins because you kill bosses insanely fast and have thus now buggered up my stats. Excellent! I was a little dissapointed to find that you can't damage boost up FD4 though with Milla even on Casual because no health. It's funny, and I would like to see someone less awful at this game than me do Casual just to see what the absolute lower bound for time looks like but it is also insultingly easy to a comical degree so I perfectly understand why nobody much likes it. I don't think banning it outright is proper because that's no fun, I'd consider it for a separate category or something. It's not that important anyway if nobody wants to actually run it.

Fladervy

Edit history:

Fladervy: 2015-08-22 10:16:09 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-22 10:15:42 am

Fladervy: 2015-08-21 06:48:20 am

2015-08-20 09:15:09 pm

This will be faster when used with slopes or springs. Without any of these, Milla loses too much height before the flutter, making it slower than the usual approach (landing and creating a block).
Doing the normal shield burst too early makes the trick fail, and costs a lot of time.

Edit: Bosses/Minibosses being beaten faster with this trick: