well i preety much planedit,but this WILL take years, ive done this before but not running and i know that there is a boss that have a 1in 14000 chance of my startagie working, and about 1 in 2000 of winning the fight at all, however slow you go, so ill get started oh and is there a limit on the number of segments you alwoed, because with these restrictions almost every boss has enogh luck that it needs its own segment (critical hits from gilgamesh are VERY rare).
SDA Forum
po0oq
Quote from lion-heart:
just a quick question, im working on a no leval no jucntion no the end speed run, whould this be aceptable?? undestanably it whould be a very long run...
I'd say it doesn't fit the SDA ... but that'd have to be discussed by/with an official
anyway, I do know that a normal ('any%') or full ('100%') speedrun is desired (or even required?) to be the first submission for any game
Been going over the run meticulously, and I've seen up to the end of Disc 1. So far, I really like everything I see, but segmenting and execution could be a little tighter. Obvious stuff, like putting in another save or two to save on random battles, doing menu stuff at the end of a segment where possible, paying more attention to how your battles play out, etc.
Overall, mad props.
Saving at the hotel and hopping the bus to Carraway's Mansion would probably be more time-efficient too, considering you'll have to load the world map if you save outside Deiling City.
Overall, mad props.
Saving at the hotel and hopping the bus to Carraway's Mansion would probably be more time-efficient too, considering you'll have to load the world map if you save outside Deiling City.
King of hearts
Quote from Carcinogen:
Been going over the run meticulously, and I've seen up to the end of Disc 1. So far, I really like everything I see, but segmenting and execution could be a little tighter. Obvious stuff, like putting in another save or two to save on random battles, doing menu stuff at the end of a segment where possible, paying more attention to how your battles play out, etc.
Overall, mad props.
Saving at the hotel and hopping the bus to Carraway's Mansion would probably be more time-efficient too, considering you'll have to load the world map if you save outside Deiling City.
Overall, mad props.
Saving at the hotel and hopping the bus to Carraway's Mansion would probably be more time-efficient too, considering you'll have to load the world map if you save outside Deiling City.
As has been said many times before, REs aren't random, so you'd need to know how to save and use the walking trick to avoid some REs. An extra save in the wrong spot would just waste time. Unless you're talking about REs in the world map in which I had none.
I do all my menu stuff at the beginning of segments so they are done as fast as possible to avoid fumbles done at the end of long segments.
Paying more attention to how my battles play out? Tighter execution? That's like a slap in my face! You think I reset those 20 or so times so enemies don't cast time consuming spells for nothing? You think I ran through this game 3 times for nothing? IMO my execution was extremely tight even for my standards. I'm surprised anyone thinks different.
And my save outside Delling City is to get the code to get into Carraway's Mansion, the bus is obsolete considering that.
Slap in the face? 0_o Whoa, Chill your flow, I complimented you.
I'm bad at giving criticism, so I apologize if I came off sounding like a bit of a fuckass. However, not too long before you stopped running this game, I saw "improving an old 8:47 run", so I gave my $.02. The run is fucking amazing, and it is worth having waited several years to watch it, despite the lack of audio.
Perhaps you don't even need to do menu stuff at the end of a segment, if you do it while menu-tricking, heh. I still have my doubts about how to manipulate the battles though. Do you place a walking trick/menu trick somewhere until you can consistently not get attacked there, or do you take note of where you regularly receive random encounters without the trick?
What I mean by "tighter battle execution" is really turn order, a la FFVII running. More segmenting would probably aid in that, too. Resetting until enemies don't cast ridiculously long spells is one thing, but optimally, you want the enemy to take up the least time attacking as possible.
I know saving at Deling City is to get the code, but I read tons of pages ago that the code was set whenever you enter Deling City. If so, you can still go to the tomb and get the code if you save in the hotel and take the bus.
Maybe I'm thinking a little too ridiculously high, but if anyone wants to beat 8:47, that's what I see is improvable. I thought the execution was great, and your efforts were not in vain, because the whole thing is definitely up to SDA standards. Speedruns are always improvable, no matter which way you look at it.
Did you have any run comments you were going to post up? If so, do they explain your planning in better detail, or do the videos pretty much speak for themselves?
I'm bad at giving criticism, so I apologize if I came off sounding like a bit of a fuckass. However, not too long before you stopped running this game, I saw "improving an old 8:47 run", so I gave my $.02. The run is fucking amazing, and it is worth having waited several years to watch it, despite the lack of audio.
Perhaps you don't even need to do menu stuff at the end of a segment, if you do it while menu-tricking, heh. I still have my doubts about how to manipulate the battles though. Do you place a walking trick/menu trick somewhere until you can consistently not get attacked there, or do you take note of where you regularly receive random encounters without the trick?
What I mean by "tighter battle execution" is really turn order, a la FFVII running. More segmenting would probably aid in that, too. Resetting until enemies don't cast ridiculously long spells is one thing, but optimally, you want the enemy to take up the least time attacking as possible.
I know saving at Deling City is to get the code, but I read tons of pages ago that the code was set whenever you enter Deling City. If so, you can still go to the tomb and get the code if you save in the hotel and take the bus.
Maybe I'm thinking a little too ridiculously high, but if anyone wants to beat 8:47, that's what I see is improvable. I thought the execution was great, and your efforts were not in vain, because the whole thing is definitely up to SDA standards. Speedruns are always improvable, no matter which way you look at it.
Did you have any run comments you were going to post up? If so, do they explain your planning in better detail, or do the videos pretty much speak for themselves?
King of hearts
I know you didn't intend for anything to be offensive when I first read the post, but I can't help the way I took it since I've spent so much time with this game. It's like telling a second place olympic athlete after he's trained for 4 gruesome years that he should have ran more(in no way am I comparing myself to an olympic athlete btw). Don't sweat it, I'm not really angry.
That 'beating 8:47' comment was only because of new time saving techniques like naming Squall and Rinoa S and R and reducing the Fastitocalon-F battles from 2 to 1. I didn't intend to save time on battles since the ones in the run were some of the best I could get, especially that Diablo battle.
I had planned on doing any menu work during any time I would do the menu trick. There are only few times where it would be useful and even fewer times there's anything to be done in the menu. Not only that but entering and exiting the menu takes very little time.
I've tested the walking and menu trick using an emulator and looking at the actual danger values so I know exactly where battles are/would be. I'm not sure if you totally understand the way the REs work but the walking trick reduces the amount the danger value goes up per step while the menu trick just delays the entire process so you move farther without increasing your step or danger values. Menu trick is only useful at the end of segments were you would have gotten into a battle right before saving. I explain pretty much everything you need to know about how this whole process works on pages 77-79. BTW this was all discovered by BrutalAl in FF7 but it's been confirmed to also be the same in FF8 with some slight modification.
No comments on the run were made yet and won't be since I've given up on the run. The videos are definitely not self explanatory so feel free to ask any questions.
That 'beating 8:47' comment was only because of new time saving techniques like naming Squall and Rinoa S and R and reducing the Fastitocalon-F battles from 2 to 1. I didn't intend to save time on battles since the ones in the run were some of the best I could get, especially that Diablo battle.
I had planned on doing any menu work during any time I would do the menu trick. There are only few times where it would be useful and even fewer times there's anything to be done in the menu. Not only that but entering and exiting the menu takes very little time.
I've tested the walking and menu trick using an emulator and looking at the actual danger values so I know exactly where battles are/would be. I'm not sure if you totally understand the way the REs work but the walking trick reduces the amount the danger value goes up per step while the menu trick just delays the entire process so you move farther without increasing your step or danger values. Menu trick is only useful at the end of segments were you would have gotten into a battle right before saving. I explain pretty much everything you need to know about how this whole process works on pages 77-79. BTW this was all discovered by BrutalAl in FF7 but it's been confirmed to also be the same in FF8 with some slight modification.
No comments on the run were made yet and won't be since I've given up on the run. The videos are definitely not self explanatory so feel free to ask any questions.
I don't know much about the encounters.
The whole 'danger value' thing sounds kinda like how encounters work in previous FF games, with the random numbers, counting down by tiles and whatnot. I suppose really it's about 'budgeting' your danger values, so to speak?
I know between FFVII PSX and FFVII PC that random encounters are different... Like, the PC version doesn't have these 'danger values' and you can run around 'danger tiles', so to speak, and they just shuffle up every time you change maps and stuff. I have to wonder if it's the same in the PC version of FFVIII.
NBC's Phil Shumaker investigates. <________<
The whole 'danger value' thing sounds kinda like how encounters work in previous FF games, with the random numbers, counting down by tiles and whatnot. I suppose really it's about 'budgeting' your danger values, so to speak?
I know between FFVII PSX and FFVII PC that random encounters are different... Like, the PC version doesn't have these 'danger values' and you can run around 'danger tiles', so to speak, and they just shuffle up every time you change maps and stuff. I have to wonder if it's the same in the PC version of FFVIII.
NBC's Phil Shumaker investigates. <________<
King of hearts
In FFVIII the danger value's limits are set in stone, at stepID 3 the limit WILL be 31, it's not random. Here's the list. Warning, huge wall of text.
EDIT: I added the all of the progress I've made using what we know to avoid encounters. Sorry that it looks like shit.
EDIT2: more notes
stpID: how far you've moved
move: how much your danger value has increased due to walking or running
limit: the danger value limit for that stepID
danger: the total danger value at that point.
offsync: this number alters your limits adding 13 to them every time the stepID goes from 255 back to 0. No value can exceed 255. Don't worry about this since most likely you get Enc None long before you reach stepID 255.
notes: my notes on what I do at those points
Those B's you see are battles. Those BS!'s you see are where I saved myself from a battle. Skip is where I did the run a little, walk a little(looks like you're skipping) trick. This is very hard to do consistently so practice. Menux# is where I used the menu trick to delay the stepID.
EDIT: I added the all of the progress I've made using what we know to avoid encounters. Sorry that it looks like shit.
EDIT2: more notes
stpID: how far you've moved
move: how much your danger value has increased due to walking or running
limit: the danger value limit for that stepID
danger: the total danger value at that point.
offsync: this number alters your limits adding 13 to them every time the stepID goes from 255 back to 0. No value can exceed 255. Don't worry about this since most likely you get Enc None long before you reach stepID 255.
notes: my notes on what I do at those points
Those B's you see are battles. Those BS!'s you see are where I saved myself from a battle. Skip is where I did the run a little, walk a little(looks like you're skipping) trick. This is very hard to do consistently so practice. Menux# is where I used the menu trick to delay the stepID.
Code:
stpID move limit danger offsync notes 0 0 7 0 0 1 5 182 5 0 2 5 240 10 0 3 5 31 15 0 4 5 85 20 0 5 5 91 25 0 6 5 55 30 0 7 5 227 35 0 8 5 174 40 0 9 5 79 45 0 10 5 178 50 0 11 5 94 55 0 12 5 153 60 0 13 5 246 65 0 14 5 119 70 0 15 5 203 75 0 16 5 96 80 0 17 5 143 85 0 18 5 67 90 B 0 19 5 62 5 0 20 5 167 10 0 21 5 76 15 0 22 5 45 20 0 23 5 136 25 0 24 5 199 30 0 25 5 104 35 0 26 5 215 40 0 27 5 209 45 0 28 5 194 50 0 29 5 242 55 0 30 5 193 60 0 31 5 221 65 0 32 5 170 70 0 33 5 147 75 0 34 5 22 80 B 0 35 5 247 5 0 36 5 38 10 0 37 5 4 15 B 0 38 5 54 5 0 39 5 161 10 0 40 5 70 15 0 41 5 78 20 0 42 5 86 25 0 43 5 190 30 0 44 5 108 35 0 45 5 110 40 0 46 5 128 45 0 47 5 213 50 0 48 5 181 55 0 49 5 142 60 0 50 5 164 65 0 51 5 158 70 0 52 5 231 75 0 53 5 202 80 0 54 5 206 85 0 55 5 33 90 B 0 56 5 255 5 0 57 5 15 10 0 58 5 212 15 0 59 5 140 20 0 60 5 230 25 0 61 5 211 30 0 62 5 152 35 0 63 0 71 0 0 Dollet S 64 2 244 2 0 skip 65 2 13 4 0 skip 66 2 21 6 0 skip 67 2 237 8 0 skip 68 2 196 10 0 skip 69 2 228 12 0 skip 70 5 53 17 0 71 5 120 22 0 menux4 72 5 186 27 0 73 5 218 32 0 74 5 39 37 0 BS! 75 5 97 42 0 76 5 171 47 0 77 5 185 52 0 78 5 195 57 0 79 5 125 62 0 80 5 133 67 0 81 5 252 72 0 82 5 149 77 0 83 0 107 0 0 Tower SAVE 84 5 48 5 0 BS! 85 5 173 10 0 86 5 134 15 0 87 5 0 20 B 0 88 5 141 5 0 Tcenter 89 5 205 10 0 90 5 126 15 0 menux4 91 5 159 20 0 92 5 229 25 0 93 5 239 30 0 94 5 219 35 0 95 5 89 40 0 96 0 235 0 0 TCENTER SAVE 97 5 5 5 0 BS! 98 5 20 10 0 99 5 201 15 0 100 5 36 20 0 101 5 44 25 0 102 5 160 30 0 103 5 60 35 0 104 5 68 40 0 105 0 105 0 0 DORM SAVE 106 2 64 2 0 skip Laguna Dream 107 2 113 4 0 skip 108 2 100 6 0 skip 109 2 58 8 0 skip 110 2 116 10 0 skip 111 2 124 12 0 skip 112 2 132 14 0 skip 113 5 19 19 0 BS! 114 5 148 24 0 115 5 156 29 0 116 5 150 34 0 117 5 172 39 0 118 5 180 44 0 119 5 188 49 0 120 5 3 54 B 0 121 2 222 2 0 skip 122 2 84 4 0 skip 123 2 220 6 0 skip 124 2 197 8 0 skip 125 2 216 10 0 skip 126 2 12 12 0 skip BS! 127 0 183 0 0 Train SAVE Menux however many I need 128 5 37 5 0 129 5 11 10 0 130 5 1 15 B 0 131 2 28 2 0 skip 132 2 35 4 0 skip 133 2 43 6 0 skip 134 5 51 11 0 135 5 59 16 0 136 5 151 21 0 137 5 27 26 0 BS! 138 5 98 31 0 139 5 47 36 0 140 5 176 41 0 141 5 224 46 0 142 5 115 51 0 143 5 204 56 0 SAVE HERE SOMEHOW 144 0 2 0 0 BS! 145 0 74 0 0 146 0 254 0 0 147 0 155 0 0 148 0 163 0 0 149 0 109 0 0 150 0 25 0 0 151 0 56 0 0 152 0 117 0 0 153 0 189 0 0 154 0 102 0 0 155 0 135 0 0 156 0 63 0 0 157 0 175 0 0 158 0 243 0 0 159 0 251 0 0 160 0 131 0 0 161 0 10 0 0 162 0 18 0 0 163 0 26 0 0 164 0 34 0 0 165 0 83 0 0 166 0 144 0 0 167 0 207 0 0 168 0 122 0 0 169 0 139 0 0 170 0 82 0 0 171 0 90 0 0 172 0 73 0 0 173 0 106 0 0 174 0 114 0 0 175 0 40 0 0 176 0 88 0 0 177 0 138 0 0 178 0 191 0 0 179 0 14 0 0 180 0 6 0 0 181 0 162 0 0 182 0 253 0 0 183 0 250 0 0 184 0 65 0 0 185 0 101 0 0 186 0 210 0 0 187 0 77 0 0 188 0 226 0 0 189 0 92 0 0 190 0 29 0 0 191 0 69 0 0 192 0 30 0 0 193 0 9 0 0 194 0 17 0 0 195 0 179 0 0 196 0 95 0 0 197 0 41 0 0 198 0 121 0 0 199 0 57 0 0 200 0 46 0 0 201 0 42 0 0 202 0 81 0 0 203 0 217 0 0 204 0 93 0 0 205 0 166 0 0 206 0 234 0 0 207 0 49 0 0 208 0 129 0 0 209 0 137 0 0 210 0 16 0 0 211 0 103 0 0 212 0 245 0 0 213 0 169 0 0 214 0 66 0 0 215 0 130 0 0 216 0 112 0 0 217 0 157 0 0 218 0 146 0 0 219 0 87 0 0 220 0 225 0 0 221 0 61 0 0 222 0 241 0 0 223 0 249 0 0 224 0 238 0 0 225 0 8 0 0 226 0 145 0 0 227 0 24 0 0 228 0 32 0 0 229 0 177 0 0 230 0 165 0 0 231 0 187 0 0 232 0 198 0 0 233 0 72 0 0 234 0 80 0 0 235 0 154 0 0 236 0 214 0 0 237 0 127 0 0 238 0 123 0 0 239 0 233 0 0 240 0 117 0 0 241 0 223 0 0 242 0 50 0 0 243 0 111 0 0 244 0 52 0 0 245 0 168 0 0 246 0 208 0 0 247 0 184 0 0 248 0 99 0 0 249 0 200 0 0 250 0 192 0 0 251 0 236 0 0 252 0 75 0 0 253 0 232 0 0 254 0 23 0 0 255 0 248 0 0
King of hearts
So each running step increases your danger value by 5 and a walking step increases it by 2. A walking step won't take you as far, so you will end up going through more stepIDs to reach your destination, so you might end up getting more encounters using the walking trick. This is why you need to know how to use it and when to save. Saving and restarting from the save point resets your danger value to 0. An encounter also resets your DV. The menu trick lets you move slightly each time without increasing anything, not your stepID nor your danger value.
You can see now why you always get into 4 encounters when you go through the Fire Cavern. You get into a battle at stepIDs 18, 34, 37, and 55 and you get out of the cavern at around 62 or 63. You can't efficiently use the walking trick in the Fire Cavern because the only encounter that can be skipped is the first one at stepID 18 if you walk a couple of steps but then you get into an encounter at 22. 22's DV limit is 45 so you'd need to walk ALL 22 steps increasing you DV by only 2 to end up with 44 and avoid that encounter. This isn't useful since you don't get as far walking, so you may avoid the first encounter but you'll add another at the end on step ID 65 where the limit is only 13. Since you get an encounter at 55, it's impossible to use walking to avoid the encounter at 65.
Your stepID and your danger values only increase in areas where you can get into encounters other than the world map.
So Fire Cavern is one of the few places where you should just run straight through to get the best time. The encounter at 65 will be avoided since you save at Dollet. Here's where you can use the walking trick to avoid the encounter at stepID 74. Walk for 6 7 or 8 of those steps(depending at what stepID you ended after the cavern) and that encounter is easily avoided. You should 'skip step' those which is running a little and walking a little right before your stepID changes and the game registers it as if you'd walked the whole step.
Dollet is also the perfect spot to use the menu trick and save to avoid another encounter at stepID 84. You end up at the Dollet comm tower at around stepID 82 or 83 normally running and 86 if you used that walking trick. So you can use the menu trick a couple of times before getting to stepID 84 and space it perfectly to save at that save point before Elvorete. Your DV is reset to 0 so you avoid that encounter. StepID 87 has a DV limit of 0 so it doesn't matter what you do, that encounter is impossible to avoid.
I had all these numbers charted in Excel so I can see all the low points and mess around using a chart instead of looking at numbers. I uploaded my Excel file somewhere on page 77 or 78 so you can download it and mess around yourself, but you'd need the program to view it. There's probably some free program you can find that deals specifically with charts or something. Just input all the limits as your x axis and make the danger value be your y. Make it so that the DV only increases by 2 or 5 and then reset to 0 at every encounter or save.
You can see now why you always get into 4 encounters when you go through the Fire Cavern. You get into a battle at stepIDs 18, 34, 37, and 55 and you get out of the cavern at around 62 or 63. You can't efficiently use the walking trick in the Fire Cavern because the only encounter that can be skipped is the first one at stepID 18 if you walk a couple of steps but then you get into an encounter at 22. 22's DV limit is 45 so you'd need to walk ALL 22 steps increasing you DV by only 2 to end up with 44 and avoid that encounter. This isn't useful since you don't get as far walking, so you may avoid the first encounter but you'll add another at the end on step ID 65 where the limit is only 13. Since you get an encounter at 55, it's impossible to use walking to avoid the encounter at 65.
Your stepID and your danger values only increase in areas where you can get into encounters other than the world map.
So Fire Cavern is one of the few places where you should just run straight through to get the best time. The encounter at 65 will be avoided since you save at Dollet. Here's where you can use the walking trick to avoid the encounter at stepID 74. Walk for 6 7 or 8 of those steps(depending at what stepID you ended after the cavern) and that encounter is easily avoided. You should 'skip step' those which is running a little and walking a little right before your stepID changes and the game registers it as if you'd walked the whole step.
Dollet is also the perfect spot to use the menu trick and save to avoid another encounter at stepID 84. You end up at the Dollet comm tower at around stepID 82 or 83 normally running and 86 if you used that walking trick. So you can use the menu trick a couple of times before getting to stepID 84 and space it perfectly to save at that save point before Elvorete. Your DV is reset to 0 so you avoid that encounter. StepID 87 has a DV limit of 0 so it doesn't matter what you do, that encounter is impossible to avoid.
I had all these numbers charted in Excel so I can see all the low points and mess around using a chart instead of looking at numbers. I uploaded my Excel file somewhere on page 77 or 78 so you can download it and mess around yourself, but you'd need the program to view it. There's probably some free program you can find that deals specifically with charts or something. Just input all the limits as your x axis and make the danger value be your y. Make it so that the DV only increases by 2 or 5 and then reset to 0 at every encounter or save.
King of hearts
I test it out on an emulator so I know exactly what stepID I'm on wherever I am. I just use epsx with PEC(playstation emulator cheater) and hit ctrl+h to go into the search.
The RAM addresses for danger, offsync, and stepID are these:
danger: 8005F0FE
offsync: 8005F150
stepID: 8005F151
It'll show you what each value is at the time and you can also modify values to suit your needs
The RAM addresses for danger, offsync, and stepID are these:
danger: 8005F0FE
offsync: 8005F150
stepID: 8005F151
It'll show you what each value is at the time and you can also modify values to suit your needs
The Journey Is The Reward.
I would, trust me. But im not half as rich to afford that sorta broadband usage to download it. And yeah, I 'would' download it even though im capped and on dial-up speed's, but that'd take forever.. And I don't have all day to download considering im on a family computer..
The Journey Is The Reward.
At school you say? *Laugh's* EVERY website has been restricted from school. Heck, we don't even have internet at school..
Thank's for the tip anyway's, I've downloaded the first 4 segment's of Darkwasabi's run, and im liking what I see so far, just wanted to ask (even though the chance's of it being asked are most probably VERY HIGH) if this is a speedrun of FFVIII why not set the battle speed's and other config option's to the fastest possible? Like in the FFVII speedrun? Or the whole one-character name for Squall & Rinoa?
Thank's for the tip anyway's, I've downloaded the first 4 segment's of Darkwasabi's run, and im liking what I see so far, just wanted to ask (even though the chance's of it being asked are most probably VERY HIGH) if this is a speedrun of FFVIII why not set the battle speed's and other config option's to the fastest possible? Like in the FFVII speedrun? Or the whole one-character name for Squall & Rinoa?