Final Fantasy VIII

2008-01-15 07:42:49 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Yeah first part of the new Segment is up now.

In my Elvoret Fight I use 2 Queza Summons. Sounds like a timewaste, but it isn´t. Only using Squalls Renzo would take more time, as you have to wait for his ATB & as Elvoret can start more attacks during that waiting period & as he can kill Squall & reviving him always costs some more time. Only Zell is even more time consuming. I tested it:

On PAL Quezas Summon takes 38 Seconds. Squalls Renzo with Rough Divide costs 24 Seconds. Anyway I´ll only use two more Summons in this Run... And they save some more time the next two times.

darkwasabi

Edit history:

darkwasabi: 2008-01-16 01:47:12 am

2008-01-16 01:38:10 am

King of hearts

Diablos can be taken care of in about 2 minutes. All you need to do is Renzo a couple of times. Blind is unnecessary because it's such a short battle that Diablos only attacks once or twice. I kept doing the battle over and over until I got lucky enough to get Diablos to attack Squall only once in the battle and it also got him to critical. I reset any time he did Gravaja and I'd reset if he did Demi too many times or if Squall did Rough Divide more than once(that segment I got lucky and he never did it). Since I save Diablos for his own segment, it won't be too hard to do again. *knocks on wood...*

I also only summon once my entire speed run and that's only against the Raldos with a boosted Shiva.

You have to actually kill Granaldo and then attack each of the Raldos(or have them attack you) once to get them out of this weird thing where they're somehow boosted by Granaldo. While Granaldo is alive, the Raldos don't act normal and won't attack since Granaldo launches them at you. In this state they have boosted defenses enough so that Shiva's summon won't kill them, but once they get out of that state, they all die with a very well boosted Shiva(like 180-190).

Diablos can be taken care of in about 2 minutes.  All you need to do is Renzo a couple of times.  Blind is unnecessary because it's such a short battle that Diablos only attacks once or twice.  I kept doing the battle over and over until I got lucky enough to get Diablos to attack Squall only once in the battle and it also got him to critical.  I reset any time he did Gravaja and I'd reset if he did Demi too many times or if Squall did Rough Divide more than once(that segment I got lucky and he never did it).  Since I save Diablos for his own segment, it won't be too hard to do again.              *knocks on wood...*

I also only summon once my entire speed run and that's only against the Raldos with a boosted Shiva.

You have to actually kill Granaldo and then attack each of the Raldos(or have them attack you) once to get them out of this weird thing where they're somehow boosted by Granaldo.  While Granaldo is alive, the Raldos don't act normal and won't attack since Granaldo launches them at you.  In this state they have boosted defenses enough so that Shiva's summon won't kill them, but once they get out of that state, they all die with a very well boosted Shiva(like 180-190).

Maglok

2008-01-16 09:13:04 am

Dum die dum

Using 2 quetzalcoatl's on Evloret is slower then just Renzokuken's I've done it with Renzo, takes care of it quickly.

@Darkwasabi: Yeah Diablos isn't that hard, but he does have a lot of hitpoints at your level. He will be seperate segment for me as well. As for the Granaldo killing with Shiva, I did consider using a GF already, I just didn't know about the hitting. Thanks for the tip.

Certo

2008-01-16 01:57:42 pm

Heyho let´s go!

@ Maglok: Well I tried it 3 times only with Renzo and it took more time. Maybe because of the Speed Difference between PAL & NTSC & PC Version??? Remember that I got no Fishfins in order to strenghen up Squall´s Renzos, so he´d need quite a few for Elvoret.

I´ll just use Queza once again against Granaldo´s Raldos. Same reason DarkWasabi already mentioned.

Maglok

2008-01-16 03:08:58 pm

Dum die dum

Well that explains. I got 100 waters to Squalls strength, though I did two fights to get em. It's worth it.

Certo

2008-01-16 03:29:18 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Jep. The time it takes to get the fishfins in PAL is so long, that the time you save in Dollet is not really worth it. I tested that, too: In PAL both strategies (with and without 100 Water) nearly take the same time. After Granaldo I get 80 Blizzaga, so I have a strengh-booster after Dollet. Getting the Fish Fins isn´t a big timesaver in PAL...

So in until Timber Squalls Renzo just wouldn´t inflict that much damage. I have had to do a lot of Renzo´s against Elvoret if I didn´t summon Queza.

Maglok

2008-01-17 09:23:05 am

Dum die dum

Interesting, but doesn't it mean you can't one shot most soldiers? Hmmm, ah well.

Certo

2008-01-17 01:17:18 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Yep Squall is unable to one-hit-kill them. But Seifer can do it. In my segment I got lucky having one critical by Zell, that took out a Soldier immediatly. The time lost there is not too big.

edpitt

2008-01-18 03:14:10 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

why does it take a long time to get fish fins in the pal version of the game it did not take me very long

Certo

2008-01-18 12:58:11 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Basically it´s not a long time, but compared to the time you spend in NTSC it´s 'long'

DateHell

Edit history:

DateHell: 2008-01-18 03:03:06 pm

2008-01-18 03:00:35 pm

po0oq

afaik the difference between PAL and NTSC is the rate at which they show frames (50 vs 60 Hz)... what i mean is that everything takes the same amount of frames

my point is.... getting fish fins should cost the same amount of frames in PAL as in NTSC... same for the amount of frames saved
edit: hmm.... ofcourse in NTSC human delays (pressing a button a bit after first possible) takes the same time and therefore more frames.

or perhaps im wrong Tongue

Maglok

2008-01-18 03:08:21 pm

Dum die dum

I think your correct. You will loose or gain time between different versions, but fish fins should still be faster. I use the PC version so I am not 100% sure, but difference between NTSC and PAL should not be an issue.

Example: Let's say NTSC runs faster then PAL. You get fish fins and your time after dollet is for example 30 minutes on NTSC and 33 on PAL. Now without fish fins you do it and on NTSC you get to 35 min and on PAL you get 39 minutes.

Whatever the case, fish fins is going to be faster. Smiley

Unless I am forgetting something.

Certo

Edit history:

Certo: 2008-01-18 04:25:07 pm

2008-01-18 04:24:34 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Yeah I know, that theoretically it should also be a good strat for PAL, but when I tested it with & without fishfins, the try without fishfins went faster. I don´t know why or how, either. Or maybe I made a mistake while testing it - dunno.

I´ll retest it soon I think...

darkwasabi

2008-01-19 03:32:22 am

King of hearts

It's definitely worth it, you do about 4 times as much damage with Renzo when you have Water junctioned. You save time with the soldiers, Anacondaur, Elvoret, X-ATM092 and Granaldo. Overall it saves a good amount of time compared to the time spend getting the fins.

Certo

Edit history:

Certo: 2008-01-19 09:29:53 am

2008-01-19 09:13:57 am

Heyho let´s go!

Hmm you´re right. I retested it last night and it did save some time. I don´t know what went wrong when I tested it the first time...

Okay seems like I have to restart my run then to get the fishfins.

darkwasabi

2008-01-19 03:01:30 pm

King of hearts

I've seen a segment of your run and noticed you use the menu trick to avoid random encounters. The thing about that is that you shouldn't use it all the time because it usually takes longer than just getting into a battle. Getting into and out of battle takes about 25-30 seconds, but doing the menu trick sometimes takes much longer.

You need to use the trick when you know an encounter is coming up. I haven't fully experimented with it yet but you should use it to alter the encounters that come up in the next area. For example, use the trick in Fire cavern a little to make there be only one random encounter in Dollet instead of 2. That way you don't need to use the trick there unless you want to affect the encounters in the next area(Training Center).

I'm not 100% sure on that because it could just hold off that battle until you get to the next area and increase the number of encounters there. I'm going to experiment with it once I get home in March.

Certo

2008-01-19 03:32:04 pm

Heyho let´s go!

Thanks for the advice =)

Well the problem is, that a random encounter can take even more time in PAL. If the enemy is just able to launch one attack the encounter takes at least 45 sec´s. The Fire Cavern is a pain somehow. I pretty much know where the encounters are before you fight Ifrit, but on the way back I just have no clue, as the encounters seem to get more random then.

In Dollet for example I´d have 2 encounters just on that bridge normally, so compared to that the thing with the menu skip went fast. The problem is, that you proceed slower through the screen on PAL anyway...

Well renamed that run on YTube now. Better to say it´s a Mock-Speedrun now in order to test the time you can get without the Fish Fin Strategy ^^ Well I erased the save files of that run on my memory card.

Well as far as my experiments went with the skip menu trick I must say that after the Fire Cavern I could even walk a much longer time across the world map without any random encounters. I have a theory that the encounter rate which has been affected by earlier usage of the skip menu trick is reset after you went through one screen where you can´t get into random encounters. Have to research that soon...

Thanks for the advice =)

Well the problem is, that a random encounter can take even more time in PAL. If the enemy is just able to launch one attack the encounter takes at least 45 sec´s. The Fire Cavern is a pain somehow. I pretty much know where the encounters are before you fight Ifrit, but on the way back I just have no clue, as the encounters seem to get more random then.

In Dollet for example I´d have 2 encounters just on that bridge normally, so compared to that the thing with the menu skip went fast. The problem is, that you proceed slower through the screen on PAL anyway...

Well renamed that run on YTube now. Better to say it´s a Mock-Speedrun now in order to test the time you can get without the Fish Fin Strategy ^^ Well I erased the save files of that run on my memory card.

Well as far as my experiments went with the skip menu trick I must say that after the Fire Cavern I could even walk a much longer time across the world map without any random encounters. I have a theory that the encounter rate which has been affected by earlier usage of the skip menu trick is reset after you went through one screen where you can´t get into random encounters. Have to research that soon...

darkwasabi

2008-01-20 06:51:00 pm

King of hearts

I just tested the menu trick using an emulator. Your random encounters never 'reset' even if you save and restart your save file or go into a completely new area. The game 'remembers' how many more steps you need to get into another random encounter.

I set up the trick so that my next 2 steps would trigger an encounter, and then the next 20 steps for another, 13 steps for the third, and 11 for the fourth. I hard reset a bunch of times right outside the Fire Cavern and it was pretty much consistent with this. I then proceeded through the game until I reached Dollet. My first 2 steps got me into a battle, then I took another 20 steps and got into another one and then 12 steps and got into another one. I did this 3 more times to make sure and it was pretty consistent.

So what this says is that the menu trick is pretty much pointless except to maybe cut off the final couple of encounters you get before Enc-Half/None. All of your encounters are determined when you start your game as long as you just go straight through.

There is one thing weird that happens rarely. You're supposed to get into a battle after X amount of steps but instead that battle is just skipped and all the proceeding encounters still occur. I've had this happen to me a couple of times in the Training Center when I start my segment to face Granaldo and the Raldos.

I just tested the menu trick using an emulator.  Your random encounters never 'reset' even if you save and restart your save file or go into a completely new area.  The game 'remembers' how many more steps you need to get into another random encounter.

I set up the trick so that my next 2 steps would trigger an encounter, and then the next 20 steps for another, 13 steps for the third, and 11 for the fourth.  I hard reset a bunch of times right outside the Fire Cavern and it was pretty much consistent with this.  I then proceeded through the game until I reached Dollet.  My first 2 steps got me into a battle, then I took another 20 steps and got into another one and then 12 steps and got into another one.  I did this 3 more times to make sure and it was pretty consistent.

So what this says is that the menu trick is pretty much pointless except to maybe cut off the final couple of encounters you get before Enc-Half/None.  All of your encounters are determined when you start your game as long as you just go straight through.

There is one thing weird that happens rarely.  You're supposed to get into a battle after X amount of steps but instead that battle is just skipped and all the proceeding encounters still occur.  I've had this happen to me a couple of times in the Training Center when I start my segment to face Granaldo and the Raldos.

DateHell

2008-01-20 11:02:38 pm

po0oq

Quote:

So what this says is that the menu trick is pretty much pointless except to maybe cut off the final couple of encounters you get before Enc-Half/None.

Say your 20th step is supposed to trigger the next battle.... but you enter a neutral zone (e.g. balamb) after the 19th step..... do 1 step (clearly the battle cannot be done) and go back. Worth a shot

darkwasabi

2008-01-21 01:43:12 am

King of hearts

I don't think it's that. It was somewhat near the neutral area, but not close enough so that I might have taken a slightly shorter route and gotten in the neutral area to avoid it. There were a good few steps to be taken to leave the area.

It could just have something to do with the way encounters work.

Maglok

2008-01-21 08:54:04 am

Dum die dum

I messed with it a bit as well, Darkwasabi seems quite right.

Certo

2008-01-21 11:26:25 am

Heyho let´s go!

Yep my test results are quite the same, except, that the number of steps differs. In the Fire Cavern for example I saw you (in your YTube video explaining the trick) getting into a random Encounter before leaving the second screen (where quistis says something about her sexappeal). In PAL I really never get into any random Encounter in that screen, as long as I´m not really trying.

But all in all your result also goes as well for every version of ff8 as it seems.

I´ve got a question by the way: When planning some segments I thought about casting Zombie on the boss enemies & use a phoenix down afterwards. Would be possible right after Namtal Utok (I think he leaves an item, that can be refined into Zombie Spells). Anyone ever tried that? I didn´t, but I have some doubts about it (for example that maybe most bosses could be pretty immune against Zombie status). You´d only need to draw Siren from Elvoret. I just wanted to know if anyone already tried that out with boss enemies.

edpitt

2008-01-21 12:29:11 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

also does phoenix down work 100% of the time, cause if it does not then it might not save that much time unless you want to restart until it does, maybe use curaga on the boss cause it is guaranteed damage, you could also use recover if you want to spend time getting it

Maglok

2008-01-21 01:02:09 pm

Dum die dum

Most bosses are immune to zombie status yes. Also phoenix downs can simply miss. There are really only two bosses where it is beneficial, Gero Gero and the big one on the salt flats. Don't have his name handy.

What's a Namtal Utok?

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2008-01-21 02:26:25 pm

2008-01-21 02:25:30 pm

I assume that's what they call Gerogero in the German version. The other boss's name is Abaddon.