Final Fantasy VII

2014-08-24 11:03:22 am

Kart for SMK, and Seven for FF7.

Continuing with field's fps, there is a possibility to stay at 30 fps in any case. On Windows 7 you just have to get Aero disabled ; on Windows 8 it's harder to do, but a French player (Faradir) will make a tutorial soon. It looks weird for a speedrunner to slow his game on purpose, but we're a few players to start Escape Midgar races and we all agree to play at the same speed, so it's the best solution for us.

Btw, if we can slow down the game, I'm wondering if we can increase the speed. Everybody can reach 34-35 fps on field screens ?

Kynos

2014-08-28 09:16:34 am

Neohart found a way to wrong-warp into FF7's Debug Rooms. This is useful for all kinds of FF7 Speedruns.

BZero

2014-08-28 04:22:50 pm

Huh, so it's the escaped battle that decides where you warp. Great tutorial, Kynos. Smiley

What's left to figure out with the debug route now, if anything?

Cereth

2014-08-28 07:45:21 pm

Tested FPS on a bad laptop (i3, integrated graphics, 4GB RAM) and had 34 FPS.

It seems having any kind of GPU will reduce your framerate. I don't know the difference between 34 and 35+ though, probably just the power of processor (my i3 being 34 fps, Potatohandles i7 being 35 fps).

As far as I can tell, windowed mode always reduces frame rate (34 to 32, or 32 to 30).

So theoretically, having a GPU and playing windowed should make a consistent 30fps (aero disabled)
And GPU disabled with fullscreen should make 34/35 fps?? I can test this a bit further some other time if someone hasn't by then. (Aero doesn't seem to make a difference here)

RoryExtraLife

Edit history:

RoryExtraLife: 2014-08-29 04:04:43 am

2014-08-29 03:17:42 am

That's the power of the Keyyyblaaade

2 things!

1) I did a run of the game using the Debug Room Warp, and was able to beat the game in 2:25:58.9, with the vod being here: http://www.twitch.tv/roryextralife/c/5018948

2) My FPS is 35, constantly, done on a really really old computer. It's got 2GB RAM, and a 512mb (I think?) Nvidia graphics card. It hasn't got anything else on the computer really other than Windows 7, Steam, and FF7 and FF8. I figured that my computer hardly handles streaming, so streaming and playing the game on my streaming computer would never work, so I've hooked up my old computer to my Elgato so I can stream it (which is why in the video you'll see that every now and again it'll skip a second or two, and while my mic is on I'll say "hang on, refreshing the capture card" or something) but for those with the resources available, it might be worth looking into.

This route is really decent, and was really fun, but I'm sure Kynos can get it down to be faster than the current JP YW+ record.

In terms f the battles you fight in this route, Palmer is the worst, but with cure and Phoenix downs he's easily beaten even if you forget to put ATB to wait like I did. The fastest way to kill the final bosses from what I gathered from watching Neohart while I did my run was to use Vincent and abuse his mug glitch, however I am not sure how to do that so I just went with double cut with one person using D. Blow thanks to me not menuing correctly and ending up wit only two double cut materia.

2 things!

1) I did a run of the game using the Debug Room Warp, and was able to beat the game in 2:25:58.9, with the vod being here: http://www.twitch.tv/roryextralife/c/5018948

2) My FPS is 35, constantly, done on a really really old computer. It's got 2GB RAM, and a 512mb (I think?) Nvidia graphics card. It hasn't got anything else on the computer really other than Windows 7, Steam, and FF7 and FF8. I figured that my computer hardly handles streaming, so streaming and playing the game on my streaming computer would never work, so I've hooked up my old computer to my Elgato so I can stream it (which is why in the video you'll see that every now and again it'll skip a second or two, and while my mic is on I'll say "hang on, refreshing the capture card" or something) but for those with the resources available, it might be worth looking into.

This route is really decent, and was really fun, but I'm sure Kynos can get it down to be faster than the current JP YW+ record.

In terms f the battles you fight in this route, Palmer is the worst, but with cure and Phoenix downs he's easily beaten even if you forget to put ATB to wait like I did. The fastest way to kill the final bosses from what I gathered from watching Neohart while I did my run was to use Vincent and abuse his mug glitch, however I am not sure how to do that so I just went with double cut with one person using D. Blow thanks to me not menuing correctly and ending up wit only two double cut materia.

RoryExtraLife

2014-08-31 01:38:26 pm

That's the power of the Keyyyblaaade

Double post, but something I'm working on.

I've decided that the PC RTA of this run is going to become a lot shorter, however if it's a non NG+ run, then the fastest way to get into the debug room, and therefore to beat the game, would be to set up the BMW save again, meaning that a Yuffie Warp into Motorball will be required.

However, this means Yuffie Warping using the Junon MN fight, which is a 1/8 chance. There is, however, a guaranteed way of getting her encounter, involving saving at a precise time, and running in one specific direction until you reach the forest, where you just run left and right without stopping movement, to encounter Yuffie every time.

I'm not sure how early in the English version you can get through the mines to unlock Yuffie's encounters, so I started with XeroKynos's numbers that he uses from his JPC Yuffie Warp runs as to when you can save to get the encounter, and then proceeded to work on each minute. If anyone has any other numbers they'd like to add, then let me know and I'll add them to the spreadsheet.

Anyway here is the spreadsheet I started working on: http://bombch.us/na6

Double post, but something I'm working on.

I've decided that the PC RTA of this run is going to become a lot shorter, however if it's a non NG+ run, then the fastest way to get into the debug room, and therefore to beat the game, would be to set up the BMW save again, meaning that a Yuffie Warp into Motorball will be required.

However, this means Yuffie Warping using the Junon MN fight, which is a 1/8 chance. There is, however, a guaranteed way of getting her encounter, involving saving at a precise time, and running in one specific direction until you reach the forest, where you just run left and right without stopping movement, to encounter Yuffie every time.

I'm not sure how early in the English version you can get through the mines to unlock Yuffie's encounters, so I started with XeroKynos's numbers that he uses from his JPC Yuffie Warp runs as to when you can save to get the encounter, and then proceeded to work on each minute. If anyone has any other numbers they'd like to add, then let me know and I'll add them to the spreadsheet.

Anyway here is the spreadsheet I started working on: http://bombch.us/na6

BZero

Edit history:

BZero: 2014-09-02 07:55:34 pm

2014-09-02 07:39:54 pm

Just finished my first NG+ debug room run (2:18:33, got killed in a pincer attack on my way to Rocket Town among other things), and here's my little contribution to the route: Since we need to buy Grenades twice anyway, we don't really need to pick up the Ether in the garden anymore. One way to do it is:

-First shopping: Sell all Potions (don't really need the gil, but this will put the Grenades at the top of the item list), buy 21 Grenades.
-Second shopping: Sell everything (except the remaining Grenades (should be about 4)), buy 63 Grenades. You'll be 2 gil short of 64 unless you pick up a Potion or get one from the MPs in the beginning (remember, we need 300 gil for the batteries), but I think 63 should be enough. We can use Fire with Cloud on the Crown Lances and Beachplugs.
-In Rocket Town, you can just sell all the accessories ~~and the Mythril Armlet~~, and you should be able to buy 11 Hi-Potions, 11 Phoenix Downs and... enough Tranquilizers.

Edit: Actually, selling the Mythril Armlet is probably not necessary.

Just finished my first NG+ debug room run (2:18:33, got killed in a pincer attack on my way to Rocket Town among other things), and here's my little contribution to the route: Since we need to buy Grenades twice anyway, we don't really need to pick up the Ether in the garden anymore. One way to do it is:

-First shopping: Sell all Potions (don't really need the gil, but this will put the Grenades at the top of the item list), buy 21 Grenades.
-Second shopping: Sell everything (except the remaining Grenades (should be about 4)), buy 63 Grenades. You'll be 2 gil short of 64 unless you pick up a Potion or get one from the MPs in the beginning (remember, we need 300 gil for the batteries), but I think 63 should be enough. We can use Fire with Cloud on the Crown Lances and Beachplugs.
-In Rocket Town, you can just sell all the accessories [s]and the Mythril Armlet[/s], and you should be able to buy 11 Hi-Potions, 11 Phoenix Downs and... enough Tranquilizers.

Edit: Actually, selling the Mythril Armlet is probably not necessary.

RoryExtraLife

Edit history:

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 03:04:57 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 02:22:58 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 02:18:00 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 02:17:42 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 02:17:39 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 02:13:26 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 01:50:40 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 01:21:34 pm

RoryExtraLife: 2014-09-03 01:21:32 pm

2014-09-03 01:20:45 pm

That's the power of the Keyyyblaaade

EDIT: Nevermind, having to restart, something has gone amiss in my code, I'll report later when I have something.

stealinbread

2014-09-11 06:47:23 pm

check your pantry

Hey all. I am new to FF7 running, and was wondering where to start. PSX obviously, not PC. Does anyone have any notes, or videos worth watching (commentary would be nice, but if there isn't any, it's all the same, I'll be taking notes).

Dreamboum

2014-09-12 06:30:04 am

The wikidot should have what you need, but first you also gotta choose the category you want to run :

http://finalfantasyspeedruns.wikidot.com/wiki:final-fantasy-categories
http://finalfantasyspeedruns.wikidot.com/wiki:ffvii-rr

Other than that, just do like everyone does, watch the most recent record in that category, take notes, watch other speedruns to be aware of backup plans or other strategies that are not used in the record and then practice.

stealinbread

2014-09-13 03:02:37 am

check your pantry

No slots is the category that interests me. Thanks dream!

BZero

2014-09-19 02:27:56 pm

Question: Why didn't I get a preemptive on Aps here? http://www.twitch.tv/bzeromus/b/570137970?t=61m40s

Kynos

2014-09-21 08:50:03 am

The pre-emptive there is quite specific.
Basically, if you don't get a pre-emptive on Aps, you are ahead of the step on which the pre-emptive occurs. It seems you already walk to the very far end of the screen and then walk Left+Right to force the encounter there, then run to Aps. Based on whether you get the encounter when Cloud steps to the left or to the right, the distance to Tifa afterwards varies by a little, which makes it possible to get or not get the pre-emptive. If you want to be safe, you can always a add a step to the left after the battle, then run to Tifa.

saintmillion

2015-04-08 09:39:36 am

station

I'm not too familiar with FF7 runs but I tried to do my own research since I'd like to pick up PC RTA, looking for clarification on a few things:

1. How important is the step counter manipulation in relation to the BMW's done later in the run? Are there any points where messing up your step counter for the battle checks will mess up the warps later on in the run, or is step counter manipulation solely for avoiding dangerous/sub-optimal encounters?

2. why rename characters to the long names in the debug room? Doesn't this waste time? Is it avoidable?

3. what do I do if Aeris bops for 14 on materia keeper? I know it's very unlikely, but I'd like to know still. Do you just heal him up and retry?

Any other guidance on learning this category is much appreciated!

BrutalAl

2015-04-21 04:31:32 pm

FINAL DESCENT MANIPULATION
I'm going to try to keep this both technical and understandable Tongue

THE BASICS
There are two variables at play when the game "randomly" picks a descent outcome for you. And what outcome you get is dictated by these two variables at the moment you reach the final descent field, and nothing you do after this point will change the upcoming descent outcome.

One of these two variables is not easily manipulated. It can be done, of course, but it would take a significant amount of time to do reliably (well over a minute). Because of this I will refer to this variable as the STONE, whatever value this variable is at towards the end of the game might as well be considered unchangeable, written in stone if you will.
There are only 16 STONES, and each stone has a list of 256 different descent-patterns inscribed on it.

And yes you guessed it, the other variable simply dictates which pattern is picked from the STONE that is given to us. And for this reason we might as well call this variable PATTERN, or perhaps list number.
The PATTERN variable is easily changeable, but perhaps not easy enough depending on your expectations...

moving on.

THE TELL
We learn what STONE and PATTERN values we are currently at by simply observing a "random" pattern for long enough so that it can only be matched to one existing STONE/PATTERN combination.

And one very good and easy to use tell turned out to be the electrical charges/sparks you can observe on the field where you fight Hojo. The charges are exceptionally good because; you have to stay on this field for a good amount of time regardless, you aren't really too busy doing anything else so you can focus on the electrical charges, and there are only the electrical charges you need focus on (no other simultaneous random events).

What you actually need to do to get the values is have a timer with a lap-function, or a split program, and then just lap/split at the end of every electrical animation, paste the times into a specifically crafted sheet/program, and it will give you the STONE and PATTERN values in return (yes, I've constructed such a sheet and it is working).

THE LIMITATIONS
First of not every STONE has got a 0-enc descent listed. 11/16 STONES do have 0-enc descents, but 5/11 STONES only have 1-enc descents at best. Also, the 0-enc descent PATTERNS are scars, not technically a problem in and of it self but...

The Hojo field is very late game, which means good places and opportunities where we can manipulate the PATTERN from this point on are limited. And by limited I mean that in the northern crater, the quickest way to manipulate the PATTERN is 1 pattern at a second.
In other words , if you get PATTERN #01, and the STONE's first 0-enc pattern is #40, then you need to spend 40 seconds of manipulation to get from PATTERN #01 to PATTERN #40 (tat is if you desperately crave a 0-descent). But in this specific example perhaps only 5 seconds of manipulation would have gotten you to a 1-enc descent, which would have been the better option probably.

THE OPTIONS
While using Hojo's electrical charge as a tell is a perfectly viable option, it does suffer from limitations when it comes to proper follow-up manipulation.

Before the northern crater there are some easily accessible fields adjacent to the world map where the PATTERN variable will increase by upwards to 30 per second, as opposed to just 1 per second (which was the fastest in the crater) and this would in turn make the manipulation that much more effective (making 0-enc descents that much more within reach).

So I therefore turn to you and ask...

Can anyone, at the top or their head, or after some closer investigation for that matter, think of a place (near the end game, the nearer the better) where you have to stop and watch a random pattern (like the hojo sparks) unfold? If you do, let me know and I can have a look at it, but until then Hojo's sparks do the job, just don't expect 0-enc descents on a regular basis.

PS.
As for this sheet I mentioned it's still a work in progress as I'm trying to give it some form of "automatic manipulation suggestion"-functionality, so the runner wont have to look through several tables and figure out the proper acts of manipulation while at the same time also doing the live run.

FINAL DESCENT MANIPULATION
I'm going to try to keep this both technical and understandable :P

THE BASICS
There are two variables at play when the game "randomly" picks a descent outcome for you. And what outcome you get is dictated by these two variables at the moment you reach the final descent field, and nothing you do after this point will change the upcoming descent outcome.

One of these two variables is not easily manipulated. It can be done, of course, but it would take a significant amount of time to do reliably (well over a minute). Because of this I will refer to this variable as the STONE, whatever value this variable is at towards the end of the game might as well be considered unchangeable, written in stone if you will.
There are only 16 STONES, and each stone has a list of 256 different descent-patterns inscribed on it.

And yes you guessed it, the other variable simply dictates which pattern is picked from the STONE that is given to us. And for this reason we might as well call this variable PATTERN, or perhaps list number.
The PATTERN variable is easily changeable, but perhaps not easy enough depending on your expectations...

moving on.

THE TELL
We learn what STONE and PATTERN values we are currently at by simply observing a "random" pattern for long enough so that it can only be matched to one existing STONE/PATTERN combination.

And one very good and easy to use tell turned out to be the electrical charges/sparks you can observe on the field where you fight Hojo. The charges are exceptionally good because; you have to stay on this field for a good amount of time regardless, you aren't really too busy doing anything else so you can focus on the electrical charges, and there are only the electrical charges you need focus on (no other simultaneous random events).

What you actually need to do to get the values is have a timer with a lap-function, or a split program, and then just lap/split at the end of every electrical animation, paste the times into a specifically crafted sheet/program, and it will give you the STONE and PATTERN values in return (yes, I've constructed such a sheet and it is working).

THE LIMITATIONS
First of not every STONE has got a 0-enc descent listed. 11/16 STONES do have 0-enc descents, but 5/11 STONES only have 1-enc descents at best. Also, the 0-enc descent PATTERNS are scars, not technically a problem in and of it self but...

The Hojo field is very late game, which means good places and opportunities where we can manipulate the PATTERN from this point on are limited. And by limited I mean that in the northern crater, the quickest way to manipulate the PATTERN is 1 pattern at a second.
In other words , if you get PATTERN #01, and the STONE's first 0-enc pattern is #40, then you need to spend 40 seconds of manipulation to get from PATTERN #01 to PATTERN #40 (tat is if you desperately crave a 0-descent). But in this specific example perhaps only 5 seconds of manipulation would have gotten you to a 1-enc descent, which would have been the better option probably.

THE OPTIONS
While using Hojo's electrical charge as a tell is a perfectly viable option, it does suffer from limitations when it comes to proper follow-up manipulation.

Before the northern crater there are some easily accessible fields adjacent to the world map where the PATTERN variable will increase by upwards to 30 per second, as opposed to just 1 per second (which was the fastest in the crater) and this would in turn make the manipulation that much more effective (making 0-enc descents that much more within reach).

So I therefore turn to you and ask...

Can anyone, at the top or their head, or after some closer investigation for that matter, think of a place (near the end game, the nearer the better) where you have to stop and watch a random pattern (like the hojo sparks) unfold? If you do, let me know and I can have a look at it, but until then Hojo's sparks do the job, just don't expect 0-enc descents on a regular basis.

PS.
As for this sheet I mentioned it's still a work in progress as I'm trying to give it some form of "automatic manipulation suggestion"-functionality, so the runner wont have to look through several tables and figure out the proper acts of manipulation while at the same time also doing the live run.

puwexil

2015-04-22 09:23:47 am

Professional Second Banana

Quote from BrutalAl:

Can anyone, at the top or their head, or after some closer investigation for that matter, think of a place (near the end game, the nearer the better) where you have to stop and watch a random pattern (like the hojo sparks) unfold? If you do, let me know and I can have a look at it, but until then Hojo's sparks do the job, just don't expect 0-enc descents on a regular basis.

Is there any relationship between the movement patterns of randomly-moving NPCs in towns and the PATTERN variable? FF6 has some RNG manipulation that can be done by watching a specific NPC's movement until she moves a known sequence (ie Up, Down, Up, Right, Left), and then exiting her field to freeze the variable at the desired state.

BrutalAl

2015-04-22 03:24:03 pm

If they move randomly, yes most likely. the PATTERN variable is used for the vast majority of random things in fields.

BrutalAl

Edit history:

BrutalAl: 2015-05-03 03:41:02 pm

2015-05-03 03:36:24 pm

Turns out my new computer is even worse at recording than my over 10 years old old one, go figures.

Anyway, I put together a little nifty GS code, or rather several lines of codes to be fair (not related to the final descent, sorry).

Any one who streams Emu practice and/or tutorial-like sessions may or may not find this code useful, or at the very least fun to play around with.

And since I cant record propely I'll leave it up to someone else to perhaps post a video if they feel inclined after having tried the codes.

DO NOTE!
Yes I know, these codes will come in conflict with some events in game (especially CODE 2), the codes simply don't work in every situation and every field, consider it a beta set Smiley

CODE 1 - OUTPUT

Code:

800E4D26 8686
800E4D28 8686
800E4D2A 8A8A
800E4D2C 8A8A
800E4D2E D0D0
800E4D30 D0D0
800E4D32 86D0
800E4D34 D0D0
C209AC5C 0002
800E4D24 0000
D30E4D24 7FFF
300E4D35 002C
D30E4D24 7FFF
110E4D24 8000
D30E4D24 3FFF
300E4D34 0024
D30E4D24 3FFF
110E4D24 4000
D30E4D24 1FFF
300E4D33 0032
D30E4D24 1FFF
110E4D24 2000
D30E4D24 0FFF
300E4D32 0035
D30E4D24 0FFF
110E4D24 1000
D30E4D24 07FF
300E4D31 001D
D30E4D24 07FF
110E4D24 0800
D30E4D24 03FF
300E4D30 0020
D30E4D24 03FF
110E4D24 0400
D30E4D24 01FF
300E4D2F 0020
D30E4D24 01FF
110E4D24 0200
D30E4D24 00FF
300E4D2E 00A5
D30E4D24 00FF
110E4D24 0100
D30E4D24 007F
300E4D2D 00F8
D30E4D24 007F
110E4D24 0080
D30E4D24 003F
300E4D2C 00F9
D30E4D24 003F
110E4D24 0040
D30E4D24 001F
300E4D2B 00F6
D30E4D24 001F
110E4D24 0020
D30E4D24 000F
300E4D2A 00F7
D30E4D24 000F
110E4D24 0010
D30E4D24 0007
300E4D29 001E
D30E4D24 0007
110E4D24 0008
D30E4D24 0003
300E4D28 001C
D30E4D24 0003
110E4D24 0004
D30E4D24 0001
300E4D27 0093
D30E4D24 0001
110E4D24 0002
D30E4D24 0000
300E4D26 0092
D30E4D24 0000
110E4D24 0001
C20E4D26 0010
800E4C44 0000
30083316 0010

CODE2 - CONTAINER

Code:

D0071E2C 0000
80071E2C 0001
E008326F 00FF
D0083330 0000
80083330 0001
E008326C 00FF
E008326D 00FF
E008326E 00FF
E008326F 00FF
E009AC26 0001
80083330 0000
E008326F 00FF
80083308 0000
E008326F 00FF
8008330A 00C8
E008326F 00FF
80083310 00A8
E008326F 00FF
8008330C 0018
8008331D 0002
E0083332 0001
30083332 0000
E0083332 0000
30083332 0001

EDIT: Right, and for the codes to work even remotely close to as intended you need to set your cheat device (or plugin) to execute active codes on every frame.

Turns out my new computer is even worse at recording than my over 10 years old old one, go figures.

Anyway, I put together a little nifty GS code, or rather several lines of codes to be fair (not related to the final descent, sorry).

Any one who streams Emu practice and/or tutorial-like sessions may or may not find this code useful, or at the very least fun to play around with.

And since I cant record propely I'll leave it up to someone else to perhaps post a video if they feel inclined after having tried the codes.

DO NOTE!
Yes I know, these codes will come in conflict with some events in game (especially CODE 2), the codes simply don't work in every situation and every field, consider it a beta set :)

CODE 1 - OUTPUT
[code]
800E4D26 8686
800E4D28 8686
800E4D2A 8A8A
800E4D2C 8A8A
800E4D2E D0D0
800E4D30 D0D0
800E4D32 86D0
800E4D34 D0D0
C209AC5C 0002
800E4D24 0000
D30E4D24 7FFF
300E4D35 002C
D30E4D24 7FFF
110E4D24 8000
D30E4D24 3FFF
300E4D34 0024
D30E4D24 3FFF
110E4D24 4000
D30E4D24 1FFF
300E4D33 0032
D30E4D24 1FFF
110E4D24 2000
D30E4D24 0FFF
300E4D32 0035
D30E4D24 0FFF
110E4D24 1000
D30E4D24 07FF
300E4D31 001D
D30E4D24 07FF
110E4D24 0800
D30E4D24 03FF
300E4D30 0020
D30E4D24 03FF
110E4D24 0400
D30E4D24 01FF
300E4D2F 0020
D30E4D24 01FF
110E4D24 0200
D30E4D24 00FF
300E4D2E 00A5
D30E4D24 00FF
110E4D24 0100
D30E4D24 007F
300E4D2D 00F8
D30E4D24 007F
110E4D24 0080
D30E4D24 003F
300E4D2C 00F9
D30E4D24 003F
110E4D24 0040
D30E4D24 001F
300E4D2B 00F6
D30E4D24 001F
110E4D24 0020
D30E4D24 000F
300E4D2A 00F7
D30E4D24 000F
110E4D24 0010
D30E4D24 0007
300E4D29 001E
D30E4D24 0007
110E4D24 0008
D30E4D24 0003
300E4D28 001C
D30E4D24 0003
110E4D24 0004
D30E4D24 0001
300E4D27 0093
D30E4D24 0001
110E4D24 0002
D30E4D24 0000
300E4D26 0092
D30E4D24 0000
110E4D24 0001
C20E4D26 0010
800E4C44 0000
30083316 0010
[/code]

CODE2 - CONTAINER
[code]
D0071E2C 0000
80071E2C 0001
E008326F 00FF
D0083330 0000
80083330 0001
E008326C 00FF
E008326D 00FF
E008326E 00FF
E008326F 00FF
E009AC26 0001
80083330 0000
E008326F 00FF
80083308 0000
E008326F 00FF
8008330A 00C8
E008326F 00FF
80083310 00A8
E008326F 00FF
8008330C 0018
8008331D 0002
E0083332 0001
30083332 0000
E0083332 0000
30083332 0001
[/code]

[b]EDIT:[/b] Right, and for the codes to work even remotely close to as intended you need to set your cheat device (or plugin) to execute active codes on every frame.

elfshot85643

Edit history:

elfshot85643: 2015-06-26 12:07:05 am

elfshot85643: 2015-06-25 10:17:19 pm

2015-06-25 09:31:59 pm

So I found a descent time save on the PC any% RTA route - I already mentioned it in IRC, but I don't think any active runners for the game were around. Anyway, it's really quite simple, it just turns out we were doing one extra unnecessary step in setting up the EBMW to the debug room.

In the currently used route, the setup is this (after motorball 2 fight):
1. Return to the Tiny Bronco and sail(I guess? It's certainly not flying) back to the the exit of Mt Nibel.
2. Save, then enter Mt Nibel - this triggers part of the Kalm flashback dialogue.
3. After the dialogue is complete, get a random encounter on the same screen and die
4. Load the save you made at the coast and defeat one battle, performing a BMW back to the Mt Nibel screen
5. Return to the Tiny Bronco, then sail through the river just south of that coast, landing south of the gold saucer
6. Run from the 3x Spencer 1x Flapbeat fight (however many encounters this takes, so long as that's the last one you flee from)
7. Defeat the first battle encountered after fleeing the aforementioned fight, then viola, debug room.

I accidentally discovered that steps 2-4 as listed above were completely unnecessary for setting up the warp - after triggering the dialogue, you can simply leave and proceed to the gold saucer area to find the spencer/flapbeat encounter and the EBMW still works just fine. I time two of the top runs in the category, on the current WR run, it would save around 1:20, and in Kynos' PB, it would save around 2:30. Also, to answer a few of the questions someone had above about this route;

Quote:

1. How important is the step counter manipulation in relation to the BMW's done later in the run? Are there any points where messing up your step counter for the battle checks will mess up the warps later on in the run, or is step counter manipulation solely for avoiding dangerous/sub-optimal encounters?

Completely unnecessary - step count is just for minimizing encounters through Midgar, and a bit of a pain to learn while you're first picking up the run. I wouldn't worry about it unless you want to contend for WR.

Quote:

2. why rename characters to the long names in the debug room? Doesn't this waste time? Is it avoidable?

Renaming the characters is necessary thanks to the weird way the debug room adds the characters to your party. I don't recall the specifics, it's been a while since it was routed out.

Quote:

3. what do I do if Aeris bops for 14 on materia keeper? I know it's very unlikely, but I'd like to know still. Do you just heal him up and retry?

If you have to have picked up an elixir, sure, but it's only a 1/256 chance of happening, if you did the menu right. Unless you have a spare high potion, what you have available to heal with isn't quite enough to get MK back to full health (I think Barret's cure would be just under what you need to heal him to full again with one poison tick and the damage. it's easy enough to just restart the fight, you'd only lose around 30 seconds, and should save anyway in case you get a Trine opening.

In other news, I put up a 3:08:27 in PC any% (33fos), which also shows the last BMW isn't needed to setup the EBMW, it's around 2:56 in the VOD, if anyone cares. http://www.twitch.tv/elfshot85643/c/6882759

Quick edit: I just thought of a potential route change to save a bit of time, I might make another post in a bit after I do a small bit of testing, and will at least update this again should it not work out Smiley

^ route change is bust, disregard

So I found a descent time save on the PC any% RTA route - I already mentioned it in IRC, but I don't think any active runners for the game were around. Anyway, it's really quite simple, it just turns out we were doing one extra unnecessary step in setting up the EBMW to the debug room.

In the currently used route, the setup is this (after motorball 2 fight):
1. Return to the Tiny Bronco and sail(I guess? It's certainly not flying) back to the the exit of Mt Nibel.
2. Save, then enter Mt Nibel - this triggers part of the Kalm flashback dialogue.
3. After the dialogue is complete, get a random encounter on the same screen and die
4. Load the save you made at the coast and defeat one battle, performing a BMW back to the Mt Nibel screen
5. Return to the Tiny Bronco, then sail through the river just south of that coast, landing south of the gold saucer
6. Run from the 3x Spencer 1x Flapbeat fight (however many encounters this takes, so long as that's the last one you flee from)
7. Defeat the first battle encountered after fleeing the aforementioned fight, then viola, debug room.

I accidentally discovered that steps 2-4 as listed above were completely unnecessary for setting up the warp - after triggering the dialogue, you can simply leave and proceed to the gold saucer area to find the spencer/flapbeat encounter and the EBMW still works just fine. I time two of the top runs in the category, on the current WR run, it would save around 1:20, and in Kynos' PB, it would save around 2:30. Also, to answer a few of the questions someone had above about this route;

[quote]1. How important is the step counter manipulation in relation to the BMW's done later in the run? Are there any points where messing up your step counter for the battle checks will mess up the warps later on in the run, or is step counter manipulation solely for avoiding dangerous/sub-optimal encounters?[/quote]
Completely unnecessary - step count is just for minimizing encounters through Midgar, and a bit of a pain to learn while you're first picking up the run. I wouldn't worry about it unless you want to contend for WR.

[quote]2. why rename characters to the long names in the debug room? Doesn't this waste time? Is it avoidable?[/quote]
Renaming the characters is necessary thanks to the weird way the debug room adds the characters to your party. I don't recall the specifics, it's been a while since it was routed out.

[quote]3. what do I do if Aeris bops for 14 on materia keeper? I know it's very unlikely, but I'd like to know still. Do you just heal him up and retry?[/quote]
If you have to have picked up an elixir, sure, but it's only a 1/256 chance of happening, if you did the menu right. Unless you have a spare high potion, what you have available to heal with isn't quite enough to get MK back to full health (I think Barret's cure would be just under what you need to heal him to full again with one poison tick and the damage. it's easy enough to just restart the fight, you'd only lose around 30 seconds, and should save anyway in case you get a Trine opening.

In other news, I put up a 3:08:27 in PC any% (33fos), which also shows the last BMW isn't needed to setup the EBMW, it's around 2:56 in the VOD, if anyone cares. http://www.twitch.tv/elfshot85643/c/6882759

Quick edit: I just thought of a potential route change to save a bit of time, I might make another post in a bit after I do a small bit of testing, and will at least update this again should it not work out :)
^ route change is bust, disregard

Wypy

Edit history:

Wypy: 2015-06-27 05:03:25 pm

2015-06-27 06:15:12 am

Deal with it!

Alright so I had this crazy idea for "No Slots" which I'm testing at the moment. Sadly I don't have as much time on my hands so maybe there are some people who like this idea and would help testing it out.
This may sound crazy to most of you, but at least hear me out. My idea is to clear the Battle Arena once after learning Aqualung. At this point in the game the enemies in the Arena are very easy and you can easily manipulate the slots to give you ton of points.

What do I want to get?
1. By talking to the lady in front of the Arena once before and after completing it gives you a "Sprint Shoes" Accessoire. Which by getting it this early has ton of use, which would have to be tested in many fights.
2. For 2560 Points We can get a "Fury Ring" which as we know from earlier Routes helps a ton against Demons Gate. I also provided a Palmer strat with them a long time ago.
90s fight on the Pal Version with a Tifa miss video: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/2698217
Also if you use Cid+Venus Gospel+ 2xCut in the late game the Fury Ring strengthens Cid and I have endgame strats for those as well on my twitch Channel.
- For the Rest of the points you can get Shrapnels(320 Points) and Ethers (640 Points). Shrapnel deals around the same damage as Molotovs to all enemies but without any element.
Could be used in the Beachplug fight instead of Aqualung to conserve MP, not sure where else though.
(Alternative is getting a Pre-Emptive Materia for 10240 Points but I don't know how much potential it has together with step Manipulation. Theres also the "Enemy Lure" materia for 5120 points which should be bad because it increases the encounter rate. But maybe it could help manipulating/removing encounters by having it equipped for well placed steps?)

By having the last wheel be "No Materia" you get +10000 Points, so you'll always end up above 10K points. Max amount of points in one Round 12576 so getting enough points isn't the problem.

Another point is that you need to buy another Ticket for 3K gil, but that shouldnt be a problem. And you can make up that money with the ethers too. But you need 10 GP to fight in the Arena. The fastest and cheapest way ist probably the Super Dunk for 200 gil and just hit 10 times in a row. And I should note that talking to the left receptionist in the Battle Square is faster than talking to the one on the right. She will tell you about the Shooting incident.

My Cloud Cloud Setup for the fights:
Back Row,Sadness(Maybe Fury would be more effective)
Equip: Force Stealer,Silver Armlet,Power Wrist
Materia: Long Range,Steal,Coverx2,Cure,,Poison,E-skill
(Manipulate could probably useful as well)

Also notable steals in the Arena:
Grashtrike: Spider Web
Eligor/Harpy: Striking Staff

So yeah, crazy Idea. On first glance sounds like its not worth it, but I think its worth a try. Also since I only have the PAL Version I can't time it for the NTSC runners.
I was also looking into completing the Arena when we have to fight for the Keystone. The fights there are way too hard imo. If someone wants to look into this you can get an S-Mine for DG (3200 Points) and Pre-Emptive Materia (6400 Points) plus the Sprint shoes and Dios prizes.
So if anyone crazy enough to give it a try, or maybe someone has different ideas, let me know. You never know what you are going to find unless you try something different.

Edit:
To my idea with Dio's required fights. There the problem is actually winning all 8 rounds not so much the time loss, if somebody can manage that in a speedrun setup it might be worth a shot.

Alright so I had this crazy idea for "No Slots" which I'm testing at the moment. Sadly I don't have as much time on my hands so maybe there are some people who like this idea and would help testing it out.
This may sound crazy to most of you, but at least hear me out. My idea is to clear the Battle Arena once after learning Aqualung. At this point in the game the enemies in the Arena are very easy and you can easily manipulate the slots to give you ton of points.

What do I want to get?
1. By talking to the lady in front of the Arena once before and after completing it gives you a "Sprint Shoes" Accessoire. Which by getting it this early has ton of use, which would have to be tested in many fights.
2. For 2560 Points We can get a "Fury Ring" which as we know from earlier Routes helps a ton against Demons Gate. I also provided a Palmer strat with them a long time ago.
  90s fight on the Pal Version with a Tifa miss video: [url]http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/2698217[/url]
  Also if you use Cid+Venus Gospel+ 2xCut in the late game the Fury Ring strengthens Cid and I have endgame strats for those as well on my twitch Channel.
- For the Rest of the points you can get Shrapnels(320 Points) and Ethers (640 Points). Shrapnel deals around the same damage as Molotovs to all enemies but without any element.
  Could be used in the Beachplug fight instead of Aqualung to conserve MP, not sure where else though.
(Alternative is getting a Pre-Emptive Materia for 10240 Points but I don't know how much potential it has together with step Manipulation. Theres also the "Enemy Lure" materia for 5120 points which should be bad because it increases the encounter rate. But maybe it could help manipulating/removing encounters by having it equipped for well placed steps?)

By having the last wheel be "No Materia" you get +10000 Points, so you'll always end up above 10K points. Max amount of points in one Round 12576 so getting enough points isn't the problem.

Another point is that you need to buy another Ticket for 3K gil, but that shouldnt be a problem. And you can make up that money with the ethers too. But you need 10 GP to fight in the Arena. The fastest and cheapest way ist probably the Super Dunk for 200 gil and just hit 10 times in a row. And I should note that talking to the left receptionist in the Battle Square is faster than talking to the one on the right. She will tell you about the Shooting incident.

My Cloud Cloud Setup for the fights:
Back Row,Sadness(Maybe Fury would be more effective)
Equip: Force Stealer,Silver Armlet,Power Wrist
Materia: Long Range,Steal,Coverx2,Cure,,Poison,E-skill
(Manipulate could probably useful as well)

Also notable steals in the Arena:
Grashtrike: Spider Web
Eligor/Harpy: Striking Staff

So yeah, crazy Idea. On first glance sounds like its not worth it, but I think its worth a try. Also since I only have the PAL Version I can't time it for the NTSC runners.
I was also looking into completing the Arena when we have to fight for the Keystone. The fights there are way too hard imo. If someone wants to look into this you can get an S-Mine for DG (3200 Points) and Pre-Emptive Materia (6400 Points) plus the Sprint shoes and Dios prizes.
So if anyone crazy enough to give it a try, or maybe someone has different ideas, let me know. You never know what you are going to find unless you try something different.

Edit:
To my idea with Dio's required fights. There the problem is actually winning all 8 rounds not so much the time loss, if somebody can manage that in a speedrun setup it might be worth a shot.

CrazyMax46

2015-06-28 01:20:53 pm

Hi everyone.

Does anyone have a good starter point for a No Slots speedrun in terms of notes? I have a doc but it seems to be dated. Also if anyone has any advice as to what a beginner should focus on? This is my first RPG speed run but I've sped ran other games.

Thanks.

The_Scrivener

2016-06-11 02:15:36 pm

Had a run crash today when I hit the debug room on PC RTA Any%. Anyone had this happen before? Would like to avoid in the future, but hard to test outside of just doing a full run again and hoping for the best. Had all 3 characters alive at the beach fight that does the warp. Maybe I'm only supposed to have Cloud alive there? I don't know. Game didn't crash until I was actually in the debug room, but it crashed immediately. SHRUG. #RIP