Final Fantasy VII

2013-08-14 06:31:09 am

I agree that Aqualung is important. The reason I am/was considering putting it into it's own segment was because, 10 seconds of driving to encounter a Harpy overall would be insignificant in the terms of all the other areas of the game that I'm never going to as well as the shorter boss encounters.

The reason I brought up Laser at all, was because I was thinking is it really going to be faster to use Slots on Icicles to death or Laser / T/S Bomb just the icicle, because I'm not even remotely concerned about Evilhead XP here. I'm just going to have to find out which one is faster.

Kynos

2013-08-19 11:02:18 pm

I found a new Materia Keeper strategy for NoSlots RTAs/SSs.
http://www.twitch.tv/xerokynos/c/2782477
It is both faster and safer. You might need to pick up a second Transform materia on the railroad tracks on Mt. Corel.
I have tried this strategy a couple dozens of times and nothing Materia Keeper did could really threaten me. The only issue is being able to inflict Poison in time.

BrutalAl

2013-08-20 10:58:05 am

That's a nice SS/RTA adaptation of the old segmented strategy.

I assume the extra Transform is not a requirement but only a backup to raise the chance of 3 minied characters, which in turn may be needed depending on the bio damage. The situation should of course be possible to handle even with only one transform, but at the cost of lost time (possibly having to cure MK and/or cast mini again)?

Given the current battle route (the one with a Pre-emptive on Jenova Birth) I would suggest not picking up the extra Transform, the little detour to get it may only be 26 stepids, and 8seconds long but it would destroy the enemy pattern, starting with a pincer on the bridge before Corel, and then a bandit pincer in the prison. (this may or may not of course be avoidable by rerouting, but until that is done, skip it). So even if having only 1 transform would make the battle longer (on average) it's currently better than than the alternative.

Also, I would of course suggest that, if this tactic is used, the player finish it of just like how it is done in the old segmented version, by casting "filler" spells at the end to make sure MK goes down before he gets of the insta-KO-7777 attack, especially since it wouldn't cost any extra time as it "removes" MK's last attack. I wouldn't know how important all the MK EXP is, but I can't imagine always having 1 character KOed after the battle is optimal (especially not if it's Tifa).

Someone else would have to comment on the amount of redundant materia required to make sure this would work with all possible Magic stats for Cloud since I wouldn't know how many can be spared.

That's a nice SS/RTA adaptation of the old segmented strategy.

I assume the extra Transform is not a requirement but only a backup to raise the chance of 3 minied characters, which in turn may be needed depending on the bio damage. The situation should of course be possible to handle even with only one transform, but at the cost of lost time (possibly having to cure MK and/or cast mini again)?

Given the current battle route (the one with a Pre-emptive on Jenova Birth) I would suggest not picking up the extra Transform, the little detour to get it may only be 26 stepids, and 8seconds long but it would destroy the enemy pattern, starting with a pincer on the bridge before Corel, and then a bandit pincer in the prison. (this may or may not of course be avoidable by rerouting, but until that is done, skip it). So even if having only 1 transform would make the battle longer (on average) it's currently better than than the alternative.

Also, I would of course suggest that, if this tactic is used, the player finish it of just like how it is done in the old segmented version, by casting "filler" spells at the end to make sure MK goes down before he gets of the insta-KO-7777 attack, especially since it wouldn't cost any extra time as it "removes" MK's last attack. I wouldn't know how important all the MK EXP is, but I can't imagine always having 1 character KOed after the battle is optimal (especially not if it's Tifa).

Someone else would have to comment on the amount of redundant materia required to make sure this would work with all possible Magic stats for Cloud since I wouldn't know how many can be spared.

Kynos

2013-08-20 12:51:52 pm

Indeed, 1 Transform is usually enough. One does not even need to have 3 small characters. Depending on the Bio damage, even 1 might suffice.

One can try queuing enough spells but one can also just wait for Materia Keeper to kill a character by a 7777 attack and throw a Phoenix Down afterwards before Materia Keeper sustains Poison damage again.

I am not entirely sure about Cloud's level at this point but I believe it should be 15.
Now, the most favorable Bio damage range is 93-99 HP (Magic+Level=59), the Bio damage range for Magic+Level=58 is 91-98 HP.
Cloud's natural Magic stat range at Level 15 is 28-33, the Force Stealer grants a +7 Magic bonus and any Magic and Summon materia one has at that point gives a +1 Magic bonus.
If Cloud is equipped with the Force Stealer and a Silver Armlet (Cait's initial armor and also dropped by Dyne), one can boost Cloud's Magic by up to 14. So, only if Cloud's natural Magic stat were 28, the lowest value for Level 15, one might have some trouble with the Bio damage. However, in that case, one can cast Death Sentence on Tifa so that she can deal 4 HP per attack under Mini, or even 8 if she is afflicted with Death Sentence and critical health.

Indeed, 1 Transform is usually enough. One does not even need to have 3 small characters. Depending on the Bio damage, even 1 might suffice.

One can try queuing enough spells but one can also just wait for Materia Keeper to kill a character by a 7777 attack and throw a Phoenix Down afterwards before Materia Keeper sustains Poison damage again.

I am not entirely sure about Cloud's level at this point but I believe it should be 15. 
Now, the most favorable Bio damage range is 93-99 HP (Magic+Level=59), the Bio damage range for Magic+Level=58 is 91-98 HP.
Cloud's natural Magic stat range at Level 15 is 28-33, the Force Stealer grants a +7 Magic bonus and any Magic and Summon materia one has at that point gives a +1 Magic bonus.
If Cloud is equipped with the Force Stealer and a Silver Armlet (Cait's initial armor and also dropped by Dyne), one can boost Cloud's Magic by up to 14. So, only if Cloud's natural Magic stat were 28, the lowest value for Level 15, one might have some trouble with the Bio damage. However, in that case, one can cast Death Sentence on Tifa so that she can deal 4 HP per attack under Mini, or even 8 if she is afflicted with Death Sentence and critical health.

BrutalAl

2013-08-20 02:37:20 pm

Why would you want MK to attack if it's guaranteed to KO a character and it's a gamble if you'd be able to throw a Phoenix Down in time or not afterwards? Not to mention a phoenix alternative would also always be slower (more actions before the battle ends) and may lose you a full limit, which may be useful in the next battle.
A filler spell removes MKs attack, so not only does it not take any longer, it also keeps everyone and their limit-bars alive, and you don't have to waste a phoenix or the time it would take to throw one, or take the gamble (Actually I'm not sure it would even be possible to throw that Phoenix, least not if you end up with a situation like in the video where poison is queued up early during MKs attacks).

Oh, I wasn't concerned about whether or not it's possible to reach a satisfactory stat range given everything that can be available at that time, I just know that most routes make rid of pretty much everything redundant (or simply don't get it to begin with), materias and items alike, in order to be able to afford what needs to be bought and I simply don't know what's normally in the inventory given the current route (and as such wouldn't know if it would require any route changes), thus the last paragraph in my previous post.

Why would you want MK to attack if it's guaranteed to KO a character and it's a gamble if you'd be able to throw a Phoenix Down in time or not afterwards? Not to mention a phoenix alternative would also always be slower (more actions before the battle ends) and may lose you a full limit, which may be useful in the next battle.
A filler spell removes MKs attack, so not only does it not take any longer, it also keeps everyone and their limit-bars alive, and you don't have to waste a phoenix or the time it would take to throw one, or take the gamble (Actually I'm not sure it would even be possible to throw that Phoenix, least not if you end up with a situation like in the video where poison is queued up early during MKs attacks).

Oh, I wasn't concerned about whether or not it's possible to reach a satisfactory stat range given everything that [i]can[/i] be available at that time, I just know that most routes make rid of pretty much everything redundant (or simply don't get it to begin with), materias and items alike, in order to be able to afford what needs to be bought and I simply don't know what's normally in the inventory given the current route (and as such wouldn't know if it would require any route changes), thus the last paragraph in my previous post.

Kynos

Edit history:

Kynos: 2013-08-23 02:34:09 pm

2013-08-23 01:49:26 pm

I found a way to temporarily turn off random battles on the world map. It works on all PC versions but I am quite sure it is PC exclusive as well because it works in a similar way to Yuffie Warping.
Here is how it works:

Die to any mandatory battle that turns off random battles beforehand. Several battles are scripted like this, for instance the Jenova-BIRTH or the Schizo boss battle.
Load a save file.
For as long as you don't leave the world map, you will not get any random battles.
As soon as you leave the world map , random battles are turned on again.

This glitch might seem quite powerful at first but it would be useful only for segmented runs. Also, because the effect merely lasts for as long as you don't change screens, there are only very few cases in which it might be used at all.

Kynos

Edit history:

Kynos: 2013-09-03 09:25:23 am

2013-09-03 08:41:58 am

KartSeven found a much more reliable Midgar Zolom skip setup.
http://www.twitch.tv/xerokynos/c/2864616
As long as the Zolom does not start in the area you run towards in the beginning, you can manipulate the Zolom very easily.

dynamitejoe

2013-09-22 07:00:05 pm

Boom went this dynamite

Hello SDA, i think this post should help.

Both the random encounter disabling and Yuffie warping, are caused by the same bug.
Telling you all how it happens might inspire you to find more things caused by the same mechanism.
It might be helpful to read some about FF7 game structure at the Qhimm forums.

The core of the game, the kernel, acts like a conductor, passing relevant game data between the different game modules.
The important modules here are: field, worldmap, and battle.
The kernel controls how data is passed between the modules, and is buggy on the PC version.
In the PC version, the kernel can sometimes fail to clear data left behind by a module.
Then, when that module is accessed again, it uses the old data.
In the Yuffie Warping glitch, heres what happens:
1. secondary file enters battle, information is passed from field module to battle module. the battle module remembers some field data.
2. secondary file has game over, kernel fails to clear all feild module data.
3. primary file loads at worldmap, enters Yuffie battle. When the battle module "hands off" back to the field module, it uses the wrong data.
4. the field module loads its previous field data, resulting in a Warp.

The random encounter glitch works the same:
1. party event disables encounters, the field module remembers this.
2. game over, the kernel does not clear all field data.
3. Reload, game uses old variable for encounters.

Why this glitch doesn't work on the ps1:
The ps1 has much less memory than a PC, and the modules actually overwrite each other when they load.
I have a feeling that the memory values relavant to these glitches are normally zero, set to a different value when the game needs it.
The kernel must not be set to initialize these normally zero memory locations.

Good luck to all you runners.
This explanation was previously posted on YT by my doppelganger, somerandomguy39
If you ever have any other glitches you want me to examine/dissasemble/explain, let me know.

Hello SDA, i think this post should help.

Both the random encounter disabling and Yuffie warping, are caused by the same bug.
Telling you all how it happens might inspire you to find more things caused by the same mechanism.
It might be helpful to read some about FF7 game structure at the Qhimm forums.

The core of the game, the kernel, acts like a conductor, passing relevant game data between the different game modules.
The important modules here are: field, worldmap, and battle.
The kernel controls how data is passed between the modules, and is buggy on the PC version.
In the PC version, the kernel can sometimes fail to clear data left behind by a module. 
Then, when that module is accessed again, it uses the old data. 
In the Yuffie Warping glitch, heres what happens:
1. secondary file enters battle, information is passed from field module to battle module. the battle module remembers some field data.
2. secondary file has game over, kernel fails to clear all feild module data.
3. primary file loads at worldmap, enters Yuffie battle. When the battle module "hands off" back to the field module, it uses the wrong data.
4. the field module loads its previous field data, resulting in a Warp.

The random encounter glitch works the same:
1. party event disables encounters, the field module remembers this.
2. game over, the kernel does not clear all field data.
3. Reload, game uses old variable for encounters.

Why this glitch doesn't work on the ps1:
The ps1 has much less memory than a PC, and the modules actually overwrite each other when they load.
I have a feeling that the memory values relavant to these glitches are normally zero, set to a different value when the game needs it.
The kernel must not be set to initialize these normally zero memory locations.

Good luck to all you runners.
This explanation was previously posted on YT by my doppelganger, somerandomguy39
If you ever have any other glitches you want me to examine/dissasemble/explain, let me know.

Kynos

2013-09-23 07:28:49 am

Thank you for that explanation.

I actually found an even broader (Yuffie) Warping Glitch shortly after discovering how to turn off random world map battles. Unfortunately, it is completely useless even for segmented runs.

Basically, any battle mode, which is set on fields on several occasions (for instance the battle mode "Show countdown in battle" or "Cannot escape from battles"), is kept in memory after a Game Over on a field and only reset after one enters a field again (either by loading a field save file or by entering a field from the world map). This means that by loading a world map save file after a filed Game Over with any particular battle mode, that battle mode is used for all world map battles for as long as one stays on the world map. For instance, one can have random world map battles one cannot escape from after dying to Schizo, or world map battles without the victory fanfare after dying in the first Reno boss battle.

Interestingly, if the Game Over occurred while the battle mode "countdown" or "Do not show EXP/AP/Gil screen" (exclusively in the Kalm flashback) was active (yes, it is possible to die in the Kalm flashback with the use of extended Yuffie Warping), one will be warped in the same fashion of Yuffie Warping by ANY world map encounter.

Thank you for that explanation.

I actually found an even broader (Yuffie) Warping Glitch shortly after discovering how to turn off random world map battles. Unfortunately, it is completely useless even for segmented runs.

Basically, any battle mode, which is set on fields on several occasions (for instance the battle mode "Show countdown in battle" or "Cannot escape from battles"), is kept in memory after a Game Over on a field and only reset after one enters a field again (either by loading a field save file or by entering a field from the world map). This means that by loading a world map save file after a filed Game Over with any particular battle mode, that battle mode is used for all world map battles for as long as one stays on the world map. For instance, one can have random world map battles one cannot escape from after dying to Schizo, or world map battles without the victory fanfare after dying in the first Reno boss battle.

Interestingly, if the Game Over occurred while the battle mode "countdown" or "Do not show EXP/AP/Gil screen" (exclusively in the Kalm flashback) was active (yes, it is possible to die in the Kalm flashback with the use of extended Yuffie Warping), one will be warped in the same fashion of Yuffie Warping by ANY world map encounter.

Wypy

2013-10-04 05:32:28 pm

Deal with it!

So I started playing around a bit with the Fury Ring again. Thats my result:
Those fight were all done in the PAL PSN Version.

Hojo: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/3019623

Jenova*Synthesis: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/3033183

Bizarro Sephiroth: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/3033208

Safer Sephiroth: http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/3033242

Enjoy Tongue

doicm

Edit history:

doicm: 2013-11-09 11:27:45 am

2013-11-09 12:22:02 am

I'm trying to route and play through Yuffie Warp%. I routed based on Kynos's run, but I'm running into a bit of a snag:

After loading into North Cave, I'm able to fly out with the airship after making it all the way to the bottom first. However, one of two things causes the airship to disappear entirely after I've landed:

1) Enter a new area after landing (like Bone Village)
2) Save and reload file

The airship just disappears. No indicator on the map about where it went to. It's just...gone. I've tried to follow the route best as I can, but I'm not able to duplicate results. I'm hoping that because it's on Steam version that it got patched funny or something...idk.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Got the info I needed for the airship deal. Kynos explained it very well to me.

Also, if anyone is interested in running any% w/ Yuffie Warp on PC, Kynos and I worked on a route guide found here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yL_ZKDOT7gXQEOaLLR7LY6-sSapQp-77-i_myLIp2VI/edit?usp=sharing

I'm trying to route and play through Yuffie Warp%. I routed based on Kynos's run, but I'm running into a bit of a snag:

After loading into North Cave, I'm able to fly out with the airship after making it all the way to the bottom first. However, one of two things causes the airship to disappear entirely after I've landed:

1) Enter a new area after landing (like Bone Village)
2) Save and reload file

The airship just disappears. No indicator on the map about where it went to. It's just...gone. I've tried to follow the route best as I can, but I'm not able to duplicate results. I'm hoping that because it's on Steam version that it got patched funny or something...idk.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Got the info I needed for the airship deal. Kynos explained it very well to me.

Also, if anyone is interested in running any% w/ Yuffie Warp on PC, Kynos and I worked on a route guide found here:
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yL_ZKDOT7gXQEOaLLR7LY6-sSapQp-77-i_myLIp2VI/edit?usp=sharing[/url]

Fiveace

2013-11-10 03:00:53 pm

Is anyone attempting to run with the Steam version of this game? I'm using this as my first speedrunning experience and seem to be hitting good times by comparison regardless of a lot of mistakes and generally amateur play on my part. I know the load times are much faster but I'm not sure of the other differences, does anyone know how if this is the fastest version of the game?

Kynos

Edit history:

Kynos: 2013-11-10 04:42:23 pm

2013-11-10 04:41:58 pm

As far as I can say, this is how (some of) the different versions work out in terms of overall speed:

Japanese PC > Steam > SE 2012 > 1998 PC >> PlayStation versions

Fiveace

Edit history:

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 06:04:20 pm

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 06:03:38 pm

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 04:46:12 pm

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 03:25:09 pm

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 03:24:55 pm

Fiveace: 2013-11-13 03:24:14 pm

2013-11-13 03:23:47 pm

Thanks. Here's an interesting video cut together from KartSeven's run regarding step count manipulation. The same user also cut together puwexil's run in a separate video, although I think the step manipulating is first disc exclusive on that one? If anyone has more information regarding this I'm curious to know, I'm basically just following the same patterns. When I followed the video I ended up fighting a back attack on Aps so I'll run it again to test if it's repeatable.

I also realized the other day that the early beta strategy could possibly be worked into the speedrun but would cost about four to five minutes overall. Since the only bosses it would affect would be Bottomswell, Jenova Birth and Dyne I'm not sure having Beta is that beneficial early game, unless it would shave off about half of each boss fight. But I'm guessing someone already tried this and decided it wasn't worth it.

Kynos

2013-11-14 01:25:13 pm

Getting a Pre-emptive attack against Aps is repeatable, however, to get it consistently, i.e. all the time, you would need still a different setup.

Losing 4 minutes to acquire Beta does not sound promising at all. Additionally, you need to cast Beta quite a few times just to kill Bottomswell. Apart from the fact that you probably will not save 4 minutes on forced battles with Beta, the main problem will be an MP shortage (Beta costs 35 MP and you can't afford to use all too many Ethers).

KartSeven

2013-11-17 03:27:55 pm

Kart for SMK, and Seven for FF7.

Just to tell you I got the sub 8 on the Single Segment No Slots category (console record) with a new WR of 7:58:03.
Twitch link here : http://fr.twitch.tv/kartseven/c/3258093

I want a 7:56:xx, and ultimate goal is a sub 7:55:00.
I'll explain my route and my boss strategies as soon as possible. Wink

puwexil

2013-11-18 08:27:28 am

Professional Second Banana

Congrats KartSeven! Crazy to see how close the PSX SS time is getting to Farringa's old PC segmented run.

Carcinogen

2013-11-20 04:59:57 pm

Dude, thank you so much, KartSeven. I was hoping that someone would beat that esports wannabe dickhead.

You gonna submit at <7:55?

KartSeven

2013-11-22 04:43:02 pm

Kart for SMK, and Seven for FF7.

Yeah, will be better to submit a time once I'll be really happy with it, so I hope it'll be a sub 7:55.

Plus the only video I have for the current WR is the Twitch stream, saving with OBS, so it's definitely not the correct video's criteria for a submission. ^^ I heard about AmarecTV, I have to look at how it works.

puwexil

2013-11-23 07:54:36 am

Professional Second Banana

The SDA Knowledge Base has some good info on console recording with AmarecTV (https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Recording) - feel free to post in the Tech Support forum https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/tech_support.html if you need help getting setup or if you want someone to take a look at a sample video and verify it meets SDA standards.

Deuceler

2013-11-23 09:10:33 am

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Carcinogen, I couldn't agree more. If you stream games and say "FFVII WR holder" after it you are a troll. Anyway, good luck KartSeven ! would be awesome to see

Kynos

2013-11-29 02:49:16 am

I found out how useful slowing Demons Gate is (you can steal a Spider Web from an enemy called Kimera Bug in Gongaga).

http://www.twitch.tv/xerokynos/c/3315701

KartSeven

Edit history:

KartSeven: 2013-11-30 06:10:45 pm

2013-11-30 01:33:04 pm

Kart for SMK, and Seven for FF7.

Excellent strat, and it won't bother my route. Smiley

Magic Hammer is useless too, as I'm able to do Schizo and Carry Armor without it and almost without losing time.

And Puwexil gave me the idea to skip Temple of the Ancient's Ribbon. XD So sub 7h55 will arrive soon for sure.

EDIT : new Schizo strat, without Magic Hammer

KartSeven

2013-12-23 04:42:17 pm

Kart for SMK, and Seven for FF7.

New WR done yesterday, in 7:53:57.
http://www.twitch.tv/kartseven/c/3439266 (part 1)
http://www.twitch.tv/kartseven/c/3439256 (part 2)

Also saved the run with AmarecTV. I won't submit it to SDA because there is still a room of improvement, but at least I have the stuff for a submission now.

Deuceler

2013-12-23 07:03:00 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Awesome Kart!! Congrats, hope to see the time pushed down soon