Final Fantasy VI general discussion

2013-04-10 08:12:24 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

The reason I don't equip the Kaiser right away is because it doesn't seem to make a difference in the opera battles (rats and Ultros), so it isn't really needed until Number 128. I hadn't thought about delaying party management until Jidoor, though, and it wouldn't hurt to equip the Kaiser earlier. My own preference is to do menu stuff right after cutscenes if possible; that way I can memorize the menu changes during the cutscene and then carry them out before I get distracted by other things.

bangagong

2013-04-11 12:08:45 pm

Great guide Gnuvince! I love guides with pictures, are you planning on adding more maps/diagrams? I read a lot of it but I didn't finish it all yet, but from what I did read I can tell that this guide is targeted at people that are fairly familiar with the game and already have some basic knowledge of running this game, the only main suggestion I have would be to add a "why do this" or "this is how this works" to some parts. An example would be right at the start when entering Narshe, a more detailed explanation of how running away works in the game may be helpful to anyone that hasn't tried this before, it took me a good few tries before I understood how to run away properly, even though it's a pretty basic mechanic.
That being said, I may just be a detail fanatic. When I think of a guide, I think about all the marathon commentary on this game from (mostly) Poxnor and Essentia, and how much information on whats happening or how this strat was discovered etc.

Lastly I'd like to say (I can't speak for everyone, just for me) that as someone who watches runners, It's great to have a guide or notes to look at that explain whats going on or how to do certain parts.
But as a runner, especially of a game this long, I find explanations more helpful towards understanding how to improve my own strats and even thinking of new possible strats.
When I started trying to run this game, it was initially just to kinda prove it to myself, but as I learned more and more about running it, I became more confident in my ability to play it, at that point it was no longer about following a script with good execution, it was about trial and error and using what I knew to create my own run, and to be able to give input on certain parts. (honestly my run pretty much follows the script, only a few minor changes to equipment/espers, but it's still fun to try new things when I think of them (so far I have not though))

I'm rambling now. btw did I mention I LOVE the illustrations in your guide!

Great guide Gnuvince!  I love guides with pictures, are you planning on adding more maps/diagrams?  I read a lot of it but I didn't finish it all yet, but from what I did read I can tell that this guide is targeted at people that are fairly familiar with the game and already have some basic knowledge of running this game, the only main suggestion I have would be to add a "why do this" or "this is how this works" to some parts.  An example would be right at the start when entering Narshe, a more detailed explanation of how running away works in the game may be helpful to anyone that hasn't tried this before, it took me a good few tries before I understood how to run away properly, even though it's a pretty basic mechanic.
That being said, I may just be a detail fanatic.  When I think of a guide, I think about all the marathon commentary on this game from (mostly) Poxnor and Essentia, and how much information on whats happening or how this strat was discovered etc.

Lastly I'd like to say (I can't speak for everyone, just for me) that as someone who watches runners, It's great to have a guide or notes to look at that explain whats going on or how to do certain parts.
But as a runner, especially of a game this long, I find explanations more helpful towards understanding how to improve my own strats and even thinking of new possible strats.
When I started trying to run this game, it was initially just to kinda prove it to myself, but as I learned more and more about running it, I became more confident in my ability to play it, at that point it was no longer about following a script with good execution, it was about trial and error and using what I knew to create my own run, and to be able to give input on certain parts.  (honestly my run pretty much follows the script, only a few minor changes to equipment/espers, but it's still fun to try new things when I think of them (so far I have not though))

I'm rambling now. btw did I mention I LOVE the illustrations in your guide!

gnuvince

2013-04-11 12:29:24 pm

Hello bangagong,

Thank you for the nice comments, it really means a lot!

> I love guides with pictures, are you planning on adding more maps/diagrams?

I think most of my walkthrough instructions are terrible; Go left, go down, go through the door, etc. When you don't know the route, they can be confusing, and when you know the path, you're mostly interested in "do I grab this chest?". So I plan on reworking them, and maps with directions are definitely part of that plan.

> the only main suggestion I have would be to add a "why do this" or "this is how this works"

I also definitely plan to do this; I've started annotating items with a little dollar sign to show that an item is going to be sold later in the game. I also want to explain the role of the Relic and Esper choices. Ideally I'd like to have boxes in the margin (think of the "Tip" boxes in For Dummies or Idiot's Guide books), however the current tool I'm using for writing the guide does not allow that much flexibility in layout, so I may need to port the guide over to pure LaTeX to have it exactly how I want it.

> An example would be right at the start when entering Narshe, a more detailed explanation of how running away works in the game may be helpful to anyone that hasn't tried this before, it took me a good few tries before I understood how to run away properly, even though it's a pretty basic mechanic.

Yeah, I plan to expand the Techniques section. I didn't think about running away techniques, but that's a good point. If there are other parts that cause problem, I would be happy to detail them more.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Hello bangagong,

Thank you for the nice comments, it really means a lot!

> I love guides with pictures, are you planning on adding more maps/diagrams?

I think most of my walkthrough instructions are terrible; Go left, go down, go through the door, etc.  When you don't know the route, they can be confusing, and when you know the path, you're mostly interested in "do I grab this chest?".  So I plan on reworking them, and maps with directions are definitely part of that plan.

>  the only main suggestion I have would be to add a "why do this" or "this is how this works"

I also definitely plan to do this; I've started annotating items with a little dollar sign to show that an item is going to be sold later in the game.  I also want to explain the role of the Relic and Esper choices.  Ideally I'd like to have boxes in the margin (think of the "Tip" boxes in For Dummies or Idiot's Guide books), however the current tool I'm using for writing the guide does not allow that much flexibility in layout, so I may need to port the guide over to pure LaTeX to have it exactly how I want it.

> An example would be right at the start when entering Narshe, a more detailed explanation of how running away works in the game may be helpful to anyone that hasn't tried this before, it took me a good few tries before I understood how to run away properly, even though it's a pretty basic mechanic.

Yeah, I plan to expand the Techniques section.  I didn't think about running away techniques, but that's a good point.  If there are other parts that cause problem, I would be happy to detail them more.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Wypy

2013-04-15 11:21:48 am

Deal with it!

Hello everyone I'm Wypy and I'm going to start running this game Single Segment in a no slots/no major glitches category. Currently brainstorming/routing but I struggle with the escape mechanics in this game. I can't make Biggs and Wedge flee before the battle ends consistently. Is there some kind of trick to it I'm missing? Thanks in advance and I'm looking forward to work with all of you in the future Grin

gnuvince

2013-04-15 12:26:13 pm

Hello Wypy:

I don't know the exact details of the algorithms, but here's what I do (and you can see essentia and mistermv doing the same in their runs):

- Only characters who have a full ATB bar may flee from the battle, which means that Terra must deal the last attack of a fight
- Some enemies (Lobos, Vomamoths) act as "bosses"; you cannot flee from battle while they are still alive, which is why it is important to kill them with Vicks and Wedge before Terra takes out the rest of the enemies.
- I imagine there is some kind of "flee counter" or something that must be fully charged before a character can run away. During attack animations, while waiting for ATB bars, etc. hold down L+R, this seems to charge the flee counter.

I'm now at the point where Vicks and Wedge very rarely stay in the battle. Practice it and in no time you'll have it down.

Good luck on your runs!

Vincent

puwexil

2013-04-15 01:21:00 pm

Professional Second Banana

The most common technique I've seen for having select characters run away from battles is to hold L/R at the start of the battle, then release right before your first character's ATB bar fills (to increment the hidden 'run counter' without actually having characters run before you're ready). Then fight the battle as normal (holding L/R at any points where the whole party's ATB bars are filling), and once the character you want to gain extra EXP starts their final attack animation (ie Terra's Bio Blaster), hold L/R so the remaining characters run away between that attack and the end of the battle.

Note that some of the Narshe battles with Terra/Vicks/Wedge have inescapable monsters (I believe both the Lobos and Vomammoths have that flag set), which must be killed before you can start prepping to have Vicks/Wedge run away.

Terribleno

2013-04-15 01:25:45 pm

Quote:

Currently brainstorming/routing but I struggle with the escape mechanics in this game.

Two conditions have to be met:
1) You must be able to escape from battle.
2) Your "run success" must be greater than the enemy's "run difficulty."

Every party member in the game has an initial run success value, ranging from 2-5. This number never changes. Terra's is 4, Locke's is 5, Cyan's is 3, etc. When battle initiated, run difficulty is calculated per-monster. It'll either be 2 or 6, whether "more difficult to run from" is set or not. The "more difficult" bit is also set per-monster, and is common along with "can't run." Let's use Whelk here, since he has 2 parts. Both the head and shell have "more difficult to run from" set, so the run difficulty for the Whelk battle is 12.

Every time the game signals you are trying to run, it takes your run success (starts at 0 every battle), and adds a random number between 0 and the character's run success. Let's use Cyan again. His run success is 3, so a random number from 0-2 would be added. If the tally of run success is greater than the run difficulty, that character successfully runs away from battle.

The game does not bother to check if you can actually escape from the battle you're trying to run from when it adds run success. Other events can momentarily prevent you running from battle (messages, animations, turn order, etc) so if you know your run success is high enough, you just need to learn the specific timing of when to hold L & R to actually run.

Quote:

- Some enemies (Lobos, Vomamoths) act as "bosses"

FF4 has a "boss" bit which sets a bunch of stuff (yay hardcoding). FF6 uses a simple flag called "can't run" which bosses and monsters share alike.

[quote]Currently brainstorming/routing but I struggle with the escape mechanics in this game.[/quote]
Two conditions have to be met:
1) You must be able to escape from battle.
2) Your "run success" must be greater than the enemy's "run difficulty."

Every party member in the game has an initial run success value, ranging from 2-5. This number never changes. Terra's is 4, Locke's is 5, Cyan's is 3, etc. When battle initiated, run difficulty is calculated per-monster. It'll either be 2 or 6, whether "more difficult to run from" is set or not. The "more difficult" bit is also set per-monster, and is common along with "can't run." Let's use Whelk here, since he has 2 parts. Both the head and shell have "more difficult to run from" set, so the run difficulty for the Whelk battle is 12.

Every time the game signals you are trying to run, it takes your run success (starts at 0 every battle), and adds a random number between 0 and the character's run success. Let's use Cyan again. His run success is 3, so a random number from 0-2 would be added. If the tally of run success is greater than the run difficulty, that character successfully runs away from battle.

The game does not bother to check if you can actually escape from the battle you're trying to run from when it adds run success. Other events can momentarily prevent you running from battle (messages, animations, turn order, etc) so if you know your run success is high enough, you just need to learn the specific timing of when to hold L & R to actually run.

[quote]- Some enemies (Lobos, Vomamoths) act as "bosses"[/quote]
FF4 has a "boss" bit which sets a bunch of stuff (yay hardcoding). FF6 uses a simple flag called "can't run" which bosses and monsters share alike.

Wypy

2013-04-15 01:40:14 pm

Deal with it!

Didn't know that Lobo/Vomammoth can't be escaped from, now I know why I failed running away.
Thats a really interesting mechanic, so I assume the can't run flag is temporary removed during the Ifrit/Shiva fight when they switch places.
Thanks for your quick answers and explanations.

Essentia

2013-04-15 01:41:12 pm

Everything's better with Magitek

I was going to reply to Wypy's question, but a bunch of people beat me to it. Smiley

puwexil explained the running away process pretty well. I'll also add that the reason Terra uses Bio Blaster to finish the fight is because its animation is long enough that both Vicks' and Wedge's ATB bars will be full when the attack ends.

Here are the specific actions you'll want to take in each battle with Vicks and Wedge, remembering to hold L+R while everyone's ATB bars are filling and during Terra's Bio Blaster:
1st battle: Terra Bio Blaster
2nd battle: Vicks and Wedge Fire Beam the Guard on the right (to get rid of pincer attack) then the Lobo, Terra Bio Blaster last enemy
3rd battle: Vicks and Wedge Fire Beam both Vomammoths, Terra Bio Blaster

any battle inside the mine without Were Rats: Terra Bio Blaster
Were Rats inside mine: Terra Fire all
*Note that it's more difficult for Vicks and Wedge to run from random encounters in the mine

Even if you do everything right, there's still a small chance that one or both will fail to run away, but following these strats should make running away much more consistent. If you're interested in reading about more of the game's mechanics, you can look at Terii Senshi's Algorithms FAQ; I learned a lot from reading through it.

I was going to reply to Wypy's question, but a bunch of people beat me to it. :) puwexil explained the running away process pretty well. I'll also add that the reason Terra uses Bio Blaster to finish the fight is because its animation is long enough that both Vicks' and Wedge's ATB bars will be full when the attack ends.

Here are the specific actions you'll want to take in each battle with Vicks and Wedge, remembering to hold L+R while everyone's ATB bars are filling and during Terra's Bio Blaster:
1st battle: Terra Bio Blaster
2nd battle: Vicks and Wedge Fire Beam the Guard on the right (to get rid of pincer attack) then the Lobo, Terra Bio Blaster last enemy
3rd battle: Vicks and Wedge Fire Beam both Vomammoths, Terra Bio Blaster

any battle inside the mine without Were Rats: Terra Bio Blaster
Were Rats inside mine: Terra Fire all
*Note that it's more difficult for Vicks and Wedge to run from random encounters in the mine

Even if you do everything right, there's still a small chance that one or both will fail to run away, but following these strats should make running away much more consistent. If you're interested in reading about more of the game's mechanics, you can look at Terii Senshi's [url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/13573]Algorithms FAQ[/url]; I learned a lot from reading through it.

Trynabefunny

2013-04-15 03:49:55 pm

Though this may be a dumb question, but I need to ask. Do you fight all battles before you get Vanish Doom/Echo Slots or do you run away from a lot?

gnuvince

2013-04-16 12:10:58 pm

Trynabefunny: you mostly run away from all fights, except for levelling up. For example, at the beginning of the game in Narshe with Terra, when you leave Arvis's house to go into the mines, you'll need to fight 2-4 battles so that she's level 6. Later on, before fighting Vargas, you want Edgar to be level 10, Locke level 9 and Terra level 8, and once they have those levels, you run away. I usually mention running away from all battles, but if it's unclear for an area, let me know and I'll fix it.

Wypy

2013-05-08 03:50:52 am

Deal with it!

Yesterday I completed my basic routing and said that I would upload a Final Battles video with my "no slots/no major glitches" route.
Here it is, played on the PAL PSN Version: http://de.twitch.tv/wypy/b/400746611
I still need way more practice, but this is basically how it looks like.

My setup:

Edgar(Lv.42):
no Esper
Equipment: Aura Lance, Aegis Shield, Red Cap, Force Armor
Relics: Dragoonboots, Dragon Horn

Celes(Lv.42):
no Esper
Equipment: Enhancer, Force Shield, Magus Hat, Minerva
Relics: Gem Box, Earrings

Setzer(Lv.33):
Esper: Siren
Equipment: Fixed Dice, Thunder Shield, Genji Helmet, Force Armor
Relics: Offering, White Cape

Mog(Lv.35):
Esper: ZoneSeek
Equipment: Pearl Lance, Aegis Shield, Red Cap, Mythril Vest
Relics: Dragoonboots, Dragon Horn

Nitrodon

2013-08-11 07:37:40 pm

puwexil asked me to post the version of the auction manipulation spreadsheet with the WoB data.

Attachment:

FF6 Auction Manipulation.ods

puwexil

2013-08-11 07:43:33 pm

Professional Second Banana

Thanks! Want to test getting ZoneSeek in the WoB, since from what I'm seeing in glitchless Japanese RTAs, if you're planning to use ZoneSeek at some point for grinding, you might as well get it early so you only have to take Terra to lvl 19 in the Sealed Gate Cave instead of lvl 20.

Nitrodon

2013-08-15 11:52:48 pm

Here is every auction house cycle, in case that turns out to be faster than using the spreadsheet. You will not always start in one of these cycles, but you will always eventually reach one. When only one esper is listed, it means that it's faster to ignore that pattern if going for both espers.

World of Balance: DLDRRRUURLRDDRUUL

DLDR ZoneSeek
LDRR Golem RUU ZoneSeek
RRRUU Golem ULLDR ZoneSeek
RUURL ZoneSeek DDDR Golem
URLR Golem DDR ZoneSeek
RDDR Golem L ZoneSeek

World of Ruin, 1-2 characters: ULRDLLRUDRDRDLL
LRDL ZoneSeek
Golem is not available on the cycle, nor is it available from the RNG states after the lone ZoneSeek pattern.

World of Ruin, 3 characters: LULRLRLULLDDRUU

ULRLR ZoneSeek UULLDDR Golem
LRLUL ZoneSeek RDRDDU Golem
LULLD Zoneseek
LLDDR Golem
LLDDRU ZoneSeek ULDURLULLDDR Golem (barely shorter than waiting for the first one in this list)

World of Ruin, 4 characters: LURLRUULRDRRLRLDLURURULUDDRUU

ULURL Golem LUULDUR ZoneSeek
RLRUUL ZoneSeek RDDRU Golem
RUULR Golem LRRDLDRDR ZoneSeek
RRLR ZoneSeek
RLRL Golem DDDR ZoneSeek
LUDDR ZoneSeek LL Golem
UDDRU Golem LDDDR ZoneSeek

Here is every auction house cycle, in case that turns out to be faster than using the spreadsheet.  You will not always start in one of these cycles, but you will always eventually reach one.  When only one esper is listed, it means that it's faster to ignore that pattern if going for both espers.

[b]World of Balance[/b]: DLDRRRUURLRDDRUUL

DLDR ZoneSeek
LDRR Golem RUU ZoneSeek
RRRUU Golem ULLDR ZoneSeek
RUURL ZoneSeek DDDR Golem
URLR Golem DDR ZoneSeek
RDDR Golem L ZoneSeek

[b]World of Ruin, 1-2 characters[/b]: ULRDLLRUDRDRDLL
LRDL ZoneSeek
Golem is not available on the cycle, nor is it available from the RNG states after the lone ZoneSeek pattern.

[b]World of Ruin, 3 characters[/b]: LULRLRLULLDDRUU

ULRLR ZoneSeek UULLDDR Golem
LRLUL ZoneSeek RDRDDU Golem
LULLD Zoneseek
LLDDR Golem
LLDDRU ZoneSeek ULDURLULLDDR Golem (barely shorter than waiting for the first one in this list)

[b]World of Ruin, 4 characters[/b]: LURLRUULRDRRLRLDLURURULUDDRUU

ULURL Golem LUULDUR ZoneSeek
RLRUUL ZoneSeek RDDRU Golem
RUULR Golem LRRDLDRDR ZoneSeek
RRLR ZoneSeek
RLRL Golem DDDR ZoneSeek
LUDDR ZoneSeek LL Golem
UDDRU Golem LDDDR ZoneSeek

LCC

2013-08-16 12:23:47 am

An odd thing happened to me during a practice run. Terra's sprite did not show up when talking to emperior Gestahl (before talking to soldiers in vector) when the party splits apart. It then seemed to hang for about 10 seconds before triggering the "Cid!" textbox. I had her in the 2nd slot with edgar in front. Once the party merged it became an invisible sprite that could be moved. After opening/exiting the menu during the soldiers sequence I ended up being teleported into a wall here:
http://i.imgur.com/VOco2mV.png

Now, this is on emulator, so that could easily be the cause. I'm running it on Higan v092. That being said, I have yet to run into any problems with it and it's the closest to console emu i have found. I havent been able to replicate the glitch either.

Wypy

2013-08-22 08:24:46 am

Deal with it!

I decided to post some stuff about the Veldt manipulation I looked into while routing for the Glitchless category. The encounters on the Veldt aren't as random as some people might think. They are divided into "Packs" and each pack has up to 7 Monster Formations which can occur. In a speedrun it seems the 1st encounter on the Veldt is most likely to be the 2x Templar/Soldier battle which is inescapable and wastes time.

There are 64 Packs in total and it it moves one forward after each battle. If you haven't encountered any Formation of the next Pack, it will skip it and move forward to the next one. I'll list the Packs and Formations you can encounter in a Speedrun up to the 1st Veldt visit in Sabins scenario (assuming sabins scenario is done first as most runners do) and leave out those you couldn't encounter yet.

Pack 1: Pack 2:
- Guard x2 - Leafer x2, Dark Wind x2
- Bleary x2, Crawly - Sand Ray, Areneid x3
- Lobo x2, Marshal - Sand Ray x2
- Hornet x2, Bleary x3 - Areneid x3
- Leafer - Sand Ray, Areneid x2
- Leafer x2, Dark Wind - Hornet x2
- Were-Rat x3
- Hornet, Crawly x2

Pack 3: Pack 4:
- Tusker x2 - Rhodox x4
- Vomammoth, Lobo - Soldier x2, M-TekArmor
- Crawly x3 - Repo Man, Vaporite
- Rhinotaur - M-TekArmor
- Rhinotaur, Rhodox x2 - Trilium, Tusker, Cirpius x2
- Rhodox x2, GreaseMonk - Cirpius x3
- Rhinotaur, GreaseMonk, Rhodox x2 - Trilium x2
- GreaseMonk x2 - Tusker,Cirpius x3

Pack 5: Pack 6:
- Brawler x2 - Lobo, Guardx2
- Brawler, Trillium, Vaporite x2 - Were-Rat, Repo Man
- M-TekArmor x2 - Were-Rat x2
- Pterodon x2
- Nautiloid, Exocite, Pterodon
- Nautiloid, Exocite
- Pterodon, Exocite x2

Pack 7: Pack 8:
- Stray Catx3 - Rhobite x3
- CrassHoppr x2, Stray Cat x2 - Beakor, Stray Cat, CrassHoppr x2
- CrassHoppr x3
- Rhobite x5
- Beakor
- Beakor x2, Stray Cat
- Beakor, Rhobite x2

Pack 9: Pack 10:
- Ghost - Bomb x2, Hazer x2
- Ghost x3 - Whisper x4
- Ghost, Poplium x2 - Over-Mind x2
- Ghost x2, Poplium x3 - Bomb x3
- Whisper x2, Hazer - Bomb
- Vaporite x2 - Over-Mind, StillGoing x2

Pack 11: Pack 12:
- Whisper, StillGoing, Hazer x2 - Whisper
- Whisper, Hazer x3
- Vomammoth x2, Guard x2
- StillGoing x3

Pack 13-51 gets skipped

Pack 52:
- Templar x2, Soldier x2

Pack 53-64 gets skipped

If you Save and Reset, 13 will be added to the Monster formation you're going to fight. If you're fighting in Pack 4, you should normally fight a battle out of Pack 5 after that. If you Save and Load from the Title Screen, you'll fight a battle from Pack 17.
Save and Reset before the 1st fight, 52+13=65, only 64 pack availabe so it resets to pack 1 again. Even though there is the Lobox2, Marshall battle in Pack 1 which is inescapable as well, its still a faster fight and the chance to get it isn't 100%. I hope this could be useful for speedrunning this game.

For more info check out Djibriel's Rage FAQ on Gamefaqs: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/35118

I decided to post some stuff about the Veldt manipulation I looked into while routing for the Glitchless category. The encounters on the Veldt aren't as random as some people might think. They are divided into "Packs" and each pack has up to 7 Monster Formations which can occur. In a speedrun it seems the 1st encounter on the Veldt is most likely to be the 2x Templar/Soldier battle which is inescapable and wastes time.

There are 64 Packs in total and it it moves one forward after each battle. If you haven't encountered any Formation of the next Pack, it will skip it and move forward to the next one. I'll list the Packs and Formations you can encounter in a Speedrun up to the 1st Veldt visit in Sabins scenario (assuming sabins scenario is done first as most runners do) and leave out those you couldn't encounter yet.

Pack 1: 				Pack 2:
- Guard x2				- Leafer x2, Dark Wind x2
- Bleary x2, Crawly			- Sand Ray, Areneid x3
- Lobo x2, Marshal			- Sand Ray x2
- Hornet x2, Bleary x3               - Areneid x3
- Leafer				        - Sand Ray, Areneid x2
- Leafer x2, Dark Wind	        - Hornet x2
					        - Were-Rat x3
				  	        - Hornet, Crawly x2

Pack 3:					Pack 4:
- Tusker x2				- Rhodox x4
- Vomammoth, Lobo			- Soldier x2, M-TekArmor
- Crawly x3				- Repo Man, Vaporite
- Rhinotaur				- M-TekArmor
- Rhinotaur, Rhodox x2		- Trilium, Tusker, Cirpius x2
- Rhodox x2, GreaseMonk	- Cirpius x3
- Rhinotaur, GreaseMonk, Rhodox x2	- Trilium x2
- GreaseMonk x2			- Tusker,Cirpius x3

Pack 5:					Pack 6:
- Brawler x2				- Lobo, Guardx2
- Brawler, Trillium, Vaporite x2	- Were-Rat, Repo Man
- M-TekArmor x2			- Were-Rat x2
- Pterodon x2
- Nautiloid, Exocite, Pterodon
- Nautiloid, Exocite
- Pterodon, Exocite x2

Pack 7:					Pack 8:
- Stray Catx3				- Rhobite x3
- CrassHoppr x2, Stray Cat x2	- Beakor, Stray Cat, CrassHoppr x2
- CrassHoppr x3				
- Rhobite x5
- Beakor
- Beakor x2, Stray Cat
- Beakor, Rhobite x2

Pack 9:					Pack 10:
- Ghost					- Bomb x2, Hazer x2
- Ghost x3				- Whisper x4
- Ghost, Poplium x2			- Over-Mind x2
- Ghost x2, Poplium x3		- Bomb x3
- Whisper x2, Hazer			- Bomb
- Vaporite x2				- Over-Mind, StillGoing x2

Pack 11:				          Pack 12:
- Whisper, StillGoing, Hazer x2  - Whisper
- Whisper, Hazer x3
- Vomammoth x2, Guard x2
- StillGoing x3

Pack 13-51 gets skipped

Pack 52:
- Templar x2, Soldier x2

Pack 53-64 gets skipped

If you Save and Reset, 13 will be added to the Monster formation you're going to fight. If you're fighting in Pack 4, you should normally fight a battle out of Pack 5 after that. If you Save and Load from the Title Screen, you'll fight a battle from Pack 17. 
Save and Reset before the 1st fight, 52+13=65, only 64 pack availabe so it resets to pack 1 again. Even though there is the Lobox2, Marshall battle in Pack 1 which is inescapable as well, its still a faster fight and the chance to get it isn't 100%. I hope this could be useful for speedrunning this game.

For more info check out Djibriel's Rage FAQ on Gamefaqs: [url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/554041-final-fantasy-iii/faqs/35118[/url]

LCC

2013-09-12 02:13:59 pm

So i've been using a setup for Kefka at Narshe in full runs that stops him from getting a 3rd turn off with wait trick, which means he will never be able to use Ice2.

Edgar with Running shoes and no weapons.
Cyan with HyperWrist + Atlas
Gau in Front row with nothing equipped
Sabin with double Earrings.

By putting runningshoes on edgar he can get a turn faster to abuse wait trick more. This still allows you to sell Mythril Blade+Pike and is faster due to extra damage output with Gau. This also sets Cyan up for the Dadaluma fight since those are the relics that are used in Zozo.

Turn order is Aura Bolt first, wait trick with Gau then do brawler, Dispatch, then wait trick into Autocrossbow with Edgar.

LCC

2013-09-29 10:27:42 pm

I've put together a couple things for Any%.

First up is a Jokerdoom cheatsheet:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NoLhNxZgKKMddWdB2JYyscVB02PMUCibVDx-NuUJD8/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to add anything relevant or correct errors. I only added anything that might affect an any% run and omitted anything unecessary. Some of it is just backup strats for failing jokerdoom and wouldn't normally be needed, but I know a lot of people don't hit it 100%.

Second is a couple route changes I have been using. I skip the dragoonboots in magitek factory and steal the flame sabre from Flame Eater instead. This means added menuing to swap charm bangle for sneak ring in the burning house and you have to sell a couple extra items. Overall it's faster since it saves you one extra battle in the factory and the walking to get to the box with dragoon boots in it. You do the shopping after exiting Strago's house on the way to esper mountain. You get an Ice rod in the house to use on Flame Eater so you won't need to buy it beforehand. Alternately if you encounter wyverns on the way to vector you can attempt to steal dragoonboots from them once and then have celes do smoke bomb. This is heavily luck based since you actually have to encounter them and it's a 1/8 chance to steal if you steal successfully. It doesn't take much time to try it since the enemies won't act before Celes, and if you actually do get it it saves time on menuing later.

Another change is keeping battle speed at 6 before Ifrit. I need to do more testing on this, but i've found bat spd 1 and 6 are roughly the same in terms of speed. I've done 15 fights with each speed and overall got bat spd 1 to be on average 3 seconds faster without taking menuing into account. I had a lot of varying times with both speeds though, so i don't consider this statiscally significant. I would need to grind out 100+ battles to get a final verdict i think. The rate at which Ifrit transitions to Shiva seems somewhat random. I have found that when he counters the 5th attack with fire he almost always disappears immediately after regardless of bat spd. Keeping it at 6 also elminates the risk of getting fire2 or blaze wiping your party.

I still need to test getting Shadow in Sabin's scenario since dreamboum is in love with him. D:

I've put together a couple things for Any%.

First up is a Jokerdoom cheatsheet:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NoLhNxZgKKMddWdB2JYyscVB02PMUCibVDx-NuUJD8/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to add anything relevant or correct errors. I only added anything that might affect an any% run and omitted anything unecessary. Some of it is just backup strats for failing jokerdoom and wouldn't normally be needed, but I know a lot of people don't hit it 100%.

Second is a couple route changes I have been using. I skip the dragoonboots in magitek factory and steal the flame sabre from Flame Eater instead. This means added menuing to swap charm bangle for sneak ring in the burning house and you have to sell a couple extra items. Overall it's faster since it saves you one extra battle in the factory and the walking to get to the box with dragoon boots in it. You do the shopping after exiting Strago's house on the way to esper mountain. You get an Ice rod in the house to use on Flame Eater so you won't need to buy it beforehand. Alternately if you encounter wyverns on the way to vector you can attempt to steal dragoonboots from them once and then have celes do smoke bomb. This is heavily luck based since you actually have to encounter them and it's a 1/8 chance to steal if you steal successfully. It doesn't take much time to try it since the enemies won't act before Celes, and if you actually do get it it saves time on menuing later.

Another change is keeping battle speed at 6 before Ifrit. I need to do more testing on this, but i've found bat spd 1 and 6 are roughly the same in terms of speed. I've done 15 fights with each speed and overall got bat spd 1 to be on average 3 seconds faster without taking menuing into account. I had a lot of varying times with both speeds though, so i don't consider this statiscally significant. I would need to grind out 100+ battles to get a final verdict i think.  The rate at which Ifrit transitions to Shiva seems somewhat random. I have found that when he counters the 5th attack with fire he almost always disappears immediately after regardless of bat spd. Keeping it at 6 also elminates the risk of getting fire2 or blaze wiping your party.

I still need to test getting Shadow in Sabin's scenario since dreamboum is in love with him. D:

puwexil

2013-10-01 07:38:28 pm

Professional Second Banana

Something I picked up from Japanese RTAs that I do for a bit of extra WoB money at no time cost is stealing from the Commandos fought in the Imperial Castle. Their common (Tent) and rare (Mythril Vest) steals both sell for 600.

Dreamboum

Edit history:

Dreamboum: 2013-10-23 08:48:24 pm

2013-10-23 08:45:21 pm

I've been thinking for quite a long time to try to find a way to skip Sabin in WoR (any%), I'm still working on it but it should definitely work. The problems would be the money because I can't afford a second Bard's Hat, the fact that Zone eater have to engulf everyone (4 characters instead of Mog only) into gogo's cave and Kefka's Tower with Gogo only. It's kinda dangerous but the time gained seems to be really interesting. And I can maybe get the Bard's Hat I need if I get lucky with your money discoveries. I need to work on that.

I also heard that skipping Sabin was used as an old route, is it true ? Is there something special I should know about it or maybe a video that I can check, haven't found anything about it Tongue

Wypy

2013-10-24 05:33:33 am

Deal with it!

Finally I got a new PB last night, which means a new Version record for PAL PSN Glitchless. Final time 9:08:32:
http://www.twitch.tv/wypy/c/3133149

Going for sub 9 now which is possible with a little bit more luck and a few less mistakes.

Dreamboum

2013-10-24 06:02:46 am

Congrats Wypy, you deserved it Wink

puwexil

Edit history:

puwexil: 2013-10-25 04:00:42 pm

2013-10-25 02:26:40 pm

Professional Second Banana

Quote from Dreamboum:

I've been thinking for quite a long time to try to find a way to skip Sabin in WoR (any%), I'm still working on it but it should definitely work. The problems would be the money because I can't afford a second Bard's Hat, the fact that Zone eater have to engulf everyone (4 characters instead of Mog only) into gogo's cave and Kefka's Tower with Gogo only. It's kinda dangerous but the time gained seems to be really interesting. And I can maybe get the Bard's Hat I need if I get lucky with your money discoveries. I need to work on that.

I'm not super familiar with the normal any% route, but if Sabin's main role in the WoR is for item support while Setzer or Gogo uses Joker Doom, what about making a quick stop on the Veldt to recruit Gau instead?

Dreamboum

2013-10-25 03:52:09 pm

That would be definitely be possible before I get Mog since you need one open slot in your party in order to recruit him. In fact, that would actually save time if I'm lucky because I would be able to send Mog alone and make Kefka's Tower safe with Gogo. I need to work on that.