Final Fantasy VI general discussion

2013-10-26 08:42:40 pm

Gau's mblock will take a hit since he can't equip weapons, so bosses and especially Inferno will be riskier. It may even be necessary to keep a thunder rod and mimic it as insurance vs Inferno. JD is preferred of course. Money can be gotten in a number of ways; I'll even list a bunch.

Get Rune Edge in Terra scenario
Steal from Commandos during Banquet, Flame Eater
Strip Shadow of his gear
Get Murasame at the beginning of the floating continent
Sell a bunch of junk items
If that's still not enough you can pay a visit to the treasure room at the imperial base before floating cont.

AFAIK nobody really ran Sabinless aside from glitchless. I heard it was tried out and wrote off as being too unsafe.

---

A couple updates on stuff i posted earlier:
Kefka at Narshe (full game run) I now use this:
Edgar with Genji Glove+Running Shoes and Mythril Blade/Pike
Cyan Atlas+Hyper
Sabin Earrings x2, Mythril Shld equipped from before raft jump.
Gau with nothing and use Exocite rage.

I sell a Tincture to make up for the lost money from not selling Mythril stuff and pick up an extra one in Zozo. You don't actually need to use tinctures until mine cart and you get ample elixirs throughout the run for recovering mp in kefka's tower. The Exocite rage is more consistent in that it always does damage every turn. Brawler is held back by stone throw having a long animation and can miss. As a part of this setup I do Locke's scenario before Terra's to get the Runningshoes so I can equip them on edgar once you get off the raft. Terra gets the sprint shoes and they are automatically unequipped from her after you defeat Kefka. This both sets up Edgar for the Kefka fight and gives faster ATB for Edgar during Terra's scenario.

---

I've found a consistent way to fight Ifrit shown here: http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3099341
Basically do this: Bat spd 6, Attack with Locke or Celes, wait for Ifrit to attack with his first turn, queue up the remaining attacks and use wait trick when Ifrit counters with fire.

This sets up Ifrit's 2nd turn to occur shortly after your 5th attack connects and gives you enough time to fill up the remaining atb bar and run. Sometimes it's ambiguous whether or not Ifrit casting fire after the first attack is a counter or not. If Ifrit appears to counter the first attack you do, just wait a couple seconds to see if he attacks again or not. If he doesn't attack again within 2-3 seconds queue up the attacks as normal and do wait tricks on counters.

---

And lastly I've looked into swapping out Terra during the banquet for Locke for stealing Tents/Mythril Vests as Puwexil suggested. Terra doesn't benefit from the exp or ap gained during these battles since she gets enough from fighting IAF/Atma to learn Bolt2. Ninja/Naughty kills with rods will give extra AP even if you don't have enough.

-Give RunningShoes+Sneak Ring to Locke, Sprint Shoes to Setzer at the beginning of talking to soldiers.
-After talking to everyone give Locke Gale+Back Guard and remove Phantom.
-After banquet Terra swaps RunningShoes for charm bangle. This means she will have sprint shoes on THE BOAT AWWW YEAHHHH
-After Ultros3 Locke gets sprint shoes + charm bangle as in the normal route.

Gau's mblock will take a hit since he can't equip weapons, so bosses and especially Inferno will be riskier. It may even be necessary to keep a thunder rod and mimic it as insurance vs Inferno. JD is preferred of course. Money can be gotten in a number of ways; I'll even list a bunch.

Get Rune Edge in Terra scenario
Steal from Commandos during Banquet, Flame Eater
Strip Shadow of his gear
Get Murasame at the beginning of the floating continent
Sell a bunch of junk items
If that's still not enough you can pay a visit to the treasure room at the imperial base before floating cont.

AFAIK nobody really ran Sabinless aside from glitchless. I heard it was tried out and wrote off as being too unsafe.

---

A couple updates on stuff i posted earlier:
Kefka at Narshe (full game run) I now use this:
Edgar with Genji Glove+Running Shoes and Mythril Blade/Pike
Cyan Atlas+Hyper
Sabin Earrings x2, Mythril Shld equipped from before raft jump.
Gau with nothing and use Exocite rage.

I sell a Tincture to make up for the lost money from not selling Mythril stuff and pick up an extra one in Zozo. You don't actually need to use tinctures until mine cart and you get ample elixirs throughout the run for recovering mp in kefka's tower. The Exocite rage is more consistent in that it always does damage every turn. Brawler is held back by stone throw having a long animation and can miss. As a part of this setup I do Locke's scenario before Terra's to get the Runningshoes so I can equip them on edgar once you get off the raft. Terra gets the sprint shoes and they are automatically unequipped from her after you defeat Kefka. This both sets up Edgar for the Kefka fight and gives faster ATB for Edgar during Terra's scenario.

---

I've found a consistent way to fight Ifrit shown here: http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3099341
Basically do this: Bat spd 6, Attack with Locke or Celes, wait for Ifrit to attack with his first turn, queue up the remaining attacks and use wait trick when Ifrit counters with fire.

This sets up Ifrit's 2nd turn to occur shortly after your 5th attack connects and gives you enough time to fill up the remaining atb bar and run. Sometimes it's ambiguous whether or not Ifrit casting fire after the first attack is a counter or not. If Ifrit appears to counter the first attack you do, just wait a couple seconds to see if he attacks again or not. If he doesn't attack again within 2-3 seconds queue up the attacks as normal and do wait tricks on counters.

---

And lastly I've looked into swapping out Terra during the banquet for Locke for stealing Tents/Mythril Vests as Puwexil suggested. Terra doesn't benefit from the exp or ap gained during these battles since she gets enough from fighting IAF/Atma to learn Bolt2. Ninja/Naughty kills with rods will give extra AP even if you don't have enough.

-Give RunningShoes+Sneak Ring to Locke, Sprint Shoes to Setzer at the beginning of talking to soldiers. 
-After talking to everyone give Locke Gale+Back Guard and remove Phantom.
-After banquet Terra swaps RunningShoes for charm bangle. This means she will have sprint shoes on THE BOAT AWWW YEAHHHH
-After Ultros3 Locke gets sprint shoes + charm bangle as in the normal route.

puwexil

2013-10-27 02:49:37 pm

Professional Second Banana

Here's an alternative Ifrit strat I've started using - slightly faster due to only needing 3 spells instead of 5 physical attacks (though I could have done it a bit faster in this video by letting go of the L/R for a half-second or so earlier after the 3rd spell), lets me stage memory cursor on my spells for for Number 024, and safer due to Ifrit not getting a chance to use Blaze (which he only does on his 2nd turn). If I fail to run after Ifrit's sprite moves he will cast Fire3 single-targeted, which will end the battle immediately if my 3rd spellcaster failed to run; and if I completely botched it and didn't get any escapes, I'll get another chance when Ifrit moves back to his original position.

LCC

2013-10-28 01:34:50 am

I fell like it's slower just because of cast animations; I'll need to test it. It does reduce the number of counter chances, though, so it might be luck based on whether it's faster. Also, Locke is the one using sleep in the normal Any% route so i don't know how that will affect his mp total for the next bosses. The only other character with magic at this point is Celes.

Essentia

Edit history:

Essentia: 2013-10-28 09:31:37 am

2013-10-28 09:27:33 am

Everything's better with Magitek

If you want to use that Ifrit strat in the English any%, you could give Sabin Ramuh during the rat battles at the opera so that he learns Bolt. I don't think there should be any problem with using too much MP. I tested out that Ifrit strat on my Japanese any% route and decided not to use it. The main thing was that I was having trouble getting everyone to run away; of course, I only run during attack animations and then when Ifrit disappears, in order to avoid the "Can't run" message. If you run constantly after the last attack (like puwexil does in the video), then you probably won't have that problem. For my route, there isn't too much of a time difference between using 3 spells or 5 attacks, and because of the Japanese equipment glitch, I don't have to worry about dying to any of Ifrit's counters or Blaze.

Quote from Dreamboum:

I also heard that skipping Sabin was used as an old route, is it true ? Is there something special I should know about it or maybe a video that I can check, haven't found anything about it Tongue

You might be thinking about my old any% run (which is currently up on SDA), where I didn't pick up Sabin until after getting the airship. I waited so I'd have the Moogle Charm when getting him, but it actually saves more time (and is much safer) to have Sabin in the Tentacles battle.

For those who are interested, I've finalized my Japanese any% route and will start streaming run attempts when I find time (hopefully this week, but with my crazy schedule, I'm not making any promises). The record is 4:32:05 real time; my goal right now is sub 4:30, which I think I can easily get.
http://www.twitch.tv/essentiafour

If you want to use that Ifrit strat in the English any%, you could give Sabin Ramuh during the rat battles at the opera so that he learns Bolt. I don't think there should be any problem with using too much MP. I tested out that Ifrit strat on my Japanese any% route and decided not to use it. The main thing was that I was having trouble getting everyone to run away; of course, I only run during attack animations and then when Ifrit disappears, in order to avoid the "Can't run" message. If you run constantly after the last attack (like puwexil does in the video), then you probably won't have that problem. For my route, there isn't too much of a time difference between using 3 spells or 5 attacks, and because of the Japanese equipment glitch, I don't have to worry about dying to any of Ifrit's counters or Blaze.

[quote="Dreamboum"]I also heard that skipping Sabin was used as an old route, is it true ? Is there something special I should know about it or maybe a video that I can check, haven't found anything about it :P[/quote]
You might be thinking about my old any% run (which is currently up on SDA), where I didn't pick up Sabin until after getting the airship. I waited so I'd have the Moogle Charm when getting him, but it actually saves more time (and is much safer) to have Sabin in the Tentacles battle.

For those who are interested, I've finalized my Japanese any% route and will start streaming run attempts when I find time (hopefully this week, but with my crazy schedule, I'm not making any promises). The record is 4:32:05 real time; my goal right now is sub 4:30, which I think I can easily get. 
http://www.twitch.tv/essentiafour

frankieframeskip

2013-12-10 08:06:10 am

Head Nerd In Charge

Hey guys -

I've just started running this game, put down Super Metroid and MMX after good PB's - but nothing holds my interest more than FFVI - this may even lead to further FF runs for me! (excited) Grin

Anyways, I just wanted to thank you all for your work and effort, it has made studying this game quite painless. I use a lot of your videos during my stream as reference (tripwirestixx on SRL).

Are there any tips you can give to a beginner that aren't usually conventional that you may find useful? Zoasty might start running this too, and during my stream yesterday he noted the tiny things are sometimes the most important.

Once again thanks so much all of you, Essentia, Puwexil, LCC, love you all!

LCC

Edit history:

LCC: 2013-12-12 01:31:30 pm

2013-12-12 12:47:01 pm

I'll list a few things that will make a life a bit easier when starting out:

Essentia's notes can be found here: https://github.com/gnuvince/ff6-speedrun-guide/tree/master/documents
Video Reference: http://www.twitch.tv/essentiafour/b/348321993
Her run is good for starting out as some of my methods require practice and aren't as safe. I would highly recommend not using battle spd 1 on Ifrit and keep it on 6 so you don't have as high of a chance of dying, plus the way i do that fight is faster that way anyway.

Mt Koltz: Run from 2 tusker fights until Terra gains 1 level. Multi target with fire then autocrossbow if encountered after the lvl is gained.
Single target fire on the tusker then autocrossbow when encountering 4 enemies with a tusker in the pack. This defeats them in 2 turns.
You can 1 shot Cirpius with autocrossbow before getting the Atlas Armlet.
Locke should run from 1 battle to distribute experience most efficiently. Defend or queue an attack with Terra first before using autocrossbow so that she doesn't run too.

-You can use X and Y to switch between characters in battle. Y switchs to the last character to get their ATB filled.

-Inside battle you can hold A to skip dialogue as fast as possible. This also applies for inputting commands faster, but it has a slight delay to getting the turbo effect, kind of like holding down a key on a keyboard.

-You can hold down and mash A to select 'Option 2' in dialogue boxes that ask you to make a decision. This works for things like saying No to tutorials and going Left on the Lete River.

-Try to limit battle commands to the bare minimum to finish the fight. Stealing will often slow you down as it will delay the enemies' attacks which will in turn delay stuff like autocrossbow from coming out. Running is always faster than killing anything, so only do so if you have a specific goal in mind.

-Having a full ATB bar is a requirement to run. This doesn't mean you will automatically run if your ATB bar is full, however. If you need 1 person to get the experience you can run while their gauge is filling and then wait for their attack animation to start before starting to run again. The number of monsters you encounter increases the difficulty in being able to run. Typically you can run just as fast from a single enemy compared to using a smoke bomb. I would only do this if you're trying to conserve smoke bombs a bit though.

-Having a menu open in battle will stop the enemy's ATB from filling up. This is useful while your characters are doing long animation attacks like Aura Bolt and Dispatch to limit the number of turns the enemy gets. It's generally referred to as 'Wait Trick'.

-There are some tiles in the world of balance where you don't get encounters. I put together a few pics here (marked tiles are encounterless): http://imgur.com/a/e7yaW

-This game can and will kill you at any moment if it so desires. Try not to get too upset by it, and learn from your mistakes!

-----

I had a pretty good run going last night, which met another tragic end in Kefka's tower. The WoB time is good though, and might be the fastest anyone has done. It shows all all of my route changes working well so I highlighted it here: http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3381946

Comparing it with Essentia's run, I'll list of the changes to look out for:

-Skip selling Mythril Pike/Shield and skip getting Koltz Tent. Sell Tincture instead.
-Use Genji Glove on Edgar for Ultros and Kefka at Narshe fights.
-Use Gau for Kefka at Narshe. Uses wait trick to prevent Kefka from getting a 3rd turn (no Ice2).
-Swap out Celes for Locke in Zozo. Locke speed stat with Thief Knife+Running Shoes gives faster ATB for using smoke bombs and is safer vs Slam Dancers.
-Dadalum strat tries to get Aura/Drill/Attack in before his first turn. Battle setting is kept on Wait. Has the potential of stealing a Jewel Ring for more money.
-Skip Dragoon Boots in Magitek Factory. GP is earned in other ways to make up for it.
-Bat spd 6 for Ifirit. Wait for Ifrit's first turn to happen after attacking once, then queue remaining attacks and use wait trick if Ifirit counters. Sets up Ifrits 2nd turn to occur shortly after the 5th attack connects so he disappears quickly.
-Edgar is kept in the lead party slot until after getting magicite (switched out for Sabin) to manipulate mine cart battles. Phantom used on the 5th battle as using it earlier also affects what battles you get. Gives more EXP/GP overall and is faster.
-Blizzard equipped to Terra only because it's the first elemental weapon on the list. It doesn't matter which one you equip to her.
-Uses Locke instead of Terra during the banquet sequence to steal Tents/Mythril vests to sell in Albrook. This also makes menuing more efficient and gives you sprint shoes on the boat.
-Ultros3 quick kill. Requires Strago in the 3rd slot and tight menuing.
-Equip Unicorn on Setzer once he learns Fire on the floating continent. This probably isn't worth doing tbh.
-And in case you missed it, the run makes use of all the encounterless tiles on the world map: http://imgur.com/a/e7yaW

I'll list a few things that will make a life a bit easier when starting out:

Essentia's notes can be found here: https://github.com/gnuvince/ff6-speedrun-guide/tree/master/documents
Video Reference: http://www.twitch.tv/essentiafour/b/348321993
Her run is good for starting out as some of my methods require practice and aren't as safe. I would highly recommend not using battle spd 1 on Ifrit and keep it on 6 so you don't have as high of a chance of dying, plus the way i do that fight is faster that way anyway.

Mt Koltz: Run from 2 tusker fights until Terra gains 1 level. Multi target with fire then autocrossbow if encountered after the lvl is gained.
               Single target fire on the tusker then autocrossbow when encountering 4 enemies with a tusker in the pack. This defeats them in 2 turns.
               You can 1 shot Cirpius with autocrossbow before getting the Atlas Armlet.
               Locke should run from 1 battle to distribute experience most efficiently. Defend or queue an attack with Terra first before using autocrossbow so that she doesn't run too.

-You can use X and Y to switch between characters in battle. Y switchs to the last character to get their ATB filled.

-Inside battle you can hold A to skip dialogue as fast as possible. This also applies for inputting commands faster, but it has a slight delay to getting the turbo effect, kind of like holding down a key on a keyboard.

-You can hold down and mash A to select 'Option 2' in dialogue boxes that ask you to make a decision. This works for things like saying No to tutorials and going Left on the Lete River.

-Try to limit battle commands to the bare minimum to finish the fight. Stealing will often slow you down as it will delay the enemies' attacks which will in turn delay stuff like autocrossbow from coming out. Running is always faster than killing anything, so only do so if you have a specific goal in mind.

-Having a full ATB bar is a requirement to run. This doesn't mean you will automatically run if your ATB bar is full, however. If you need 1 person to get the experience you can run while their gauge is filling and then wait for their attack animation to start before starting to run again. The number of monsters you encounter increases the difficulty in being able to run. Typically you can run just as fast from a single enemy compared to using a smoke bomb. I would only do this if you're trying to conserve smoke bombs a bit though.

-Having a menu open in battle will stop the enemy's ATB from filling up. This is useful while your characters are doing long animation attacks like Aura Bolt and Dispatch to limit the number of turns the enemy gets. It's generally referred to as 'Wait Trick'.

-There are some tiles in the world of balance where you don't get encounters. I put together a few pics here (marked tiles are encounterless): http://imgur.com/a/e7yaW

-This game can and will kill you at any moment if it so desires. Try not to get too upset by it, and learn from your mistakes!

-----

I had a pretty good run going last night, which met another tragic end in Kefka's tower. The WoB time is good though, and might be the fastest anyone has done. It shows all all of my route changes working well so I highlighted it here: http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3381946

Comparing it with Essentia's run, I'll list of the changes to look out for:

-Skip selling Mythril Pike/Shield and skip getting Koltz Tent. Sell Tincture instead.
-Use Genji Glove on Edgar for Ultros and Kefka at Narshe fights.
-Use Gau for Kefka at Narshe. Uses wait trick to prevent Kefka from getting a 3rd turn (no Ice2).
-Swap out Celes for Locke in Zozo. Locke speed stat with Thief Knife+Running Shoes gives faster ATB for using smoke bombs and is safer vs Slam Dancers.
-Dadalum strat tries to get Aura/Drill/Attack in before his first turn. Battle setting is kept on Wait. Has the potential of stealing a Jewel Ring for more money.
-Skip Dragoon Boots in Magitek Factory. GP is earned in other ways to make up for it.
-Bat spd 6 for Ifirit. Wait for Ifrit's first turn to happen after attacking once, then queue remaining attacks and use wait trick if Ifirit counters. Sets up Ifrits 2nd turn to occur shortly after the 5th attack connects so he disappears quickly.
-Edgar is kept in the lead party slot until after getting magicite (switched out for Sabin) to manipulate mine cart battles. Phantom used on the 5th battle as using it earlier also affects what battles you get. Gives more EXP/GP overall and is faster.
-Blizzard equipped to Terra only because it's the first elemental weapon on the list. It doesn't matter which one you equip to her.
-Uses Locke instead of Terra during the banquet sequence to steal Tents/Mythril vests to sell in Albrook. This also makes menuing more efficient and gives you sprint shoes on the boat.
-Ultros3 quick kill. Requires Strago in the 3rd slot and tight menuing.
-Equip Unicorn on Setzer once he learns Fire on the floating continent. This probably isn't worth doing tbh.
-And in case you missed it, the run makes use of all the encounterless tiles on the world map: http://imgur.com/a/e7yaW

puwexil

2013-12-12 08:14:10 pm

Professional Second Banana

So something quite silly happened last night when I was testing a new levelling route for Glitchless 100%:

This happened when Edgar was auto-optimized before the Tentacles battle. Effects look the same as the JP version Equip Anything Glitch (Edgar gains the +2 Mag.Power bonus from the Flame Sabre and no bonuses to any other status), though my file didn't follow any of the rules for the glitch - my Flame Sabres were in the 30th slot in my inventory; and I did have armor that Edgar was capable of equipping (Leather Armor).

I had a savestate right before the Tentacles battle, so I reloaded a few times and fought the Tentacles; but afterwards Edgar had the Leather Armor equipped like he's supposed to. I sent the savestate to a few other people and one of them was able to reproduce this glitch and equip the Flame Sabre as armor; but like me he didn't do anything out of the ordinary during the Tentacles battle.

I've attached before/after savestates (SNES9x 1.53 format) in case anyone else wants to test it out - would be quite cool if the Equip Anything Glitch turns out to be possible in the English version, even if only in specific places!

So something quite silly happened last night when I was testing a new levelling route for Glitchless 100%:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/BGwcp4Z.png[/img]

This happened when Edgar was auto-optimized before the Tentacles battle.  Effects look the same as the JP version Equip Anything Glitch (Edgar gains the +2 Mag.Power bonus from the Flame Sabre and no bonuses to any other status), though my file didn't follow any of the rules for the glitch - my Flame Sabres were in the 30th slot in my inventory; and I did have armor that Edgar was capable of equipping (Leather Armor).

I had a savestate right before the Tentacles battle, so I reloaded a few times and fought the Tentacles; but afterwards Edgar had the Leather Armor equipped like he's supposed to.  I sent the savestate to a few other people and one of them was able to reproduce this glitch and equip the Flame Sabre as armor; but like me he didn't do anything out of the ordinary during the Tentacles battle.

I've attached before/after savestates (SNES9x 1.53 format) in case anyone else wants to test it out - would be quite cool if the Equip Anything Glitch turns out to be possible in the English version, even if only in specific places!

Attachments:

Final Fantasy VI (US III).000

Final Fantasy VI (US III).002

LCC

Edit history:

LCC: 2013-12-13 12:10:53 am

2013-12-12 11:13:20 pm

I've reloaded the save state a ton and it seems pretty random as I did the exact same thing over and over (mashing A) and when checking the Flame Sabre inventory in battle it dropped to 2 only 3 times over the course of an hour or so of trying. Seems like it's some weird frame based thing.

Update: Item Slot doesn't seem to matter as I moved everything up to the top and it still works. Got edgar equipped with enhancer weapon and thunderblade armor at the moment.

Yagamoth

2013-12-13 04:14:57 am

INTJ

Oh... Auto-optimized, does that mean Edgar equips himself just before the battle with various items you have in your inventory?

puwexil

2013-12-13 08:27:35 am

Professional Second Banana

Yeah, he gets automatically equipped with whatever strongest weapon/shield/helmet/armor you have when the Tentacles battle loads, just as if you picked the 'Optimize' option from the equip menu. The same thing also happens with Terra before the final Phunbaba battle.

Yagamoth

2013-12-13 08:40:05 am

INTJ

Interesting. Is there a way to convert the savestates over to snes9x 1.51? I'd have some TAS tools I know about - Not sure if 1.53 also has those options

Khobahi

Edit history:

Khobahi: 2013-12-18 07:48:06 am

Khobahi: 2013-12-18 07:06:49 am

Khobahi: 2013-12-18 06:59:31 am

2013-12-18 06:58:10 am

Puwexil this might be more of a question for you (as i'm not sure who else is doing glitchless) but anyone able to answer would be awesome. Was wondering if you had note/route i could research and then practice on for the any% or 100% (i'd love to do 100% but i heard getting used to any% might be a better idea first) GLITCHLESS run. Love the game and would like to start running it but i don't want to use slots/ V/D tricks., which makes the routes for using Joker Doom (or reverse) i think useless as i need to be strong to fight bosses.

I assume most of the run up to getting Setzer would be the same anyways (maybe more leveling gearing due to actually fighting bosses)

Been tuning into as many streams i can of people running/practicing the runs.
Thanks!

assassin17

2013-12-18 09:36:46 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

the cause of that equip wrong item bug is a non-maskable interrupt occurring at an inopportune time, and overwriting a variable:

http://www14.brinkster.com/assassin17/patches.htm#anchor39
http://mnrogar.slickproductions.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=5316#p5316 (read this post, and the next few)

puwexil

2013-12-18 10:39:28 pm

Professional Second Banana

Thanks for the info! Too bad that glitch is too random to be useful for a speedrun; but if someone wants to use something similar in a run there's always the Equip Anything Glitch in the Japanese version.

LCC

2013-12-21 10:13:27 am

I had an awesome run last night and got 4:56:03!

http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3425890

I'll post a long writeup on it later tonight.

Dreamboum

2013-12-21 10:52:26 am

Congrats LCC ! You deserved it !

LCC

Edit history:

LCC: 2014-01-02 01:23:24 am

2014-01-01 06:29:32 pm

Hello again! I've been working on improving my run more and seem to have figured out how to manipulate the battles on the Veldt.

There is a variable that determines what set of monsters you encounter and can be anywhere from 1-64. This FAQ shows all of the different packs in the Veldt section (2.16): http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/562865-final-fantasy-vi/faqs/13573

Every time you reset/power on the game *and* load a game, either being a save or new game it increases this variable by 14. The monster packs that you can encounter up to that point in a speedrun are packs 1-12, 47-48 (only if you do Locke scenario first), and 52. It automatically rounds up to the next pack until it selects one with a pack that you have encountered before. In pack 52 is the Templar battle, which is why it's so common to get it first. If the variable is 53 or above it wraps back down to pack 1.

The first thing you need to do is determine what value the variable is set to, so that you can manipulate it accordingly.
1. Create a save at the beginning of the Veldt using the normal speedrunning route.
2. Fight one battle and reset/reload the save until the first encounter is NOT Templars.
3. Find the corresponding pack # in the FAQ i linked earlier. Skip to step 7 if it is packs 2-12 since you now know what value it is.
4. If it is Pack 1 then the value is anywhere between 53-64 or 1. Reload the save again.
5. If the battle is Templars again then the value is now either 14 or 15.
6. Reload the save 4 times and fight a battle again. If everything was done correctly it should be either pack 6 or 7. You now know what value the Veldt encounter variable is set to!
7. Going forward you need to keep track of what the value of the variable is set to. Every time you reset and reload a save or select new game it will increase by 14.

Keep in mind that after 64 it wraps back around to 1 again. For example if the value is 60 and you reload the save then it will put you at pack 10. I'm sorry if this isn't clear enough or confusing. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

***Editted this post because of some incorrect numbers.

Hello again! I've been working on improving my run more and seem to have figured out how to manipulate the battles on the Veldt.

There is a variable that determines what set of monsters you encounter and can be anywhere from 1-64. This FAQ shows all of the different packs in the Veldt section (2.16): http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/562865-final-fantasy-vi/faqs/13573

Every time you reset/power on the game *and* load a game, either being a save or new game it increases this variable by 14. The monster packs that you can encounter up to that point in a speedrun are packs 1-12, 47-48 (only if you do Locke scenario first), and 52. It automatically rounds up to the next pack until it selects one with a pack that you have encountered before. In pack 52 is the Templar battle, which is why it's so common to get it first.  If the variable is 53 or above it wraps back down to pack 1.

The first thing you need to do is determine what value the variable is set to, so that you can manipulate it accordingly. 
1. Create a save at the beginning of the Veldt using the normal speedrunning route.
2. Fight one battle and reset/reload the save until the first encounter is NOT Templars.
3. Find the corresponding pack # in the FAQ i linked earlier. Skip to step 7 if it is packs 2-12 since you now know what value it is.
4. If it is Pack 1 then the value is anywhere between 53-64 or 1. Reload the save again.
5. If the battle is Templars again then the value is now either 14 or 15.
6. Reload the save 4 times and fight a battle again. If everything was done correctly it should be either pack 6 or 7. You now know what value the Veldt encounter variable is set to!
7. Going forward you need to keep track of what the value of the variable is set to. Every time you reset and reload a save or select new game it will increase by 14.

Keep in mind that after 64 it wraps back around to 1 again. For example if the value is 60 and you reload the save then it will put you at pack 10. I'm sorry if this isn't clear enough or confusing. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

***Editted this post because of some incorrect numbers.

garik16

2014-01-01 08:09:03 pm

Quote from LCC:

Hello again! I've been working on improving my run more and seem to have figured out how to manipulate the battles on the Veldt.

There is a variable that determines what set of monsters you encounter and can be anywhere from 1-64. This FAQ shows all of the different packs in the Veldt section (2.16): http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/562865-final-fantasy-vi/faqs/13573

Every time you reset/power on the game *and* load a game, either being a save or new game it increases this variable by 13. The monster packs that you can encounter up to that point in a speedrun are packs 1-12, 47-48 (only if you do Locke scenario first), and 52. It automatically rounds up to the next pack until it selects one with a pack that you have encountered before. In pack 52 is the Templar battle, which is why it's so common to get it first. If the variable is 53 or above it wraps back down to pack 1.

The first thing you need to do is determine what value the variable is set to, so that you can manipulate it accordingly.
1. Create a save at the beginning of the Veldt using the normal speedrunning route.
2. Fight one battle and reset/reload the save until the first encounter is NOT Templars.
3. Find the corresponding pack # in the FAQ i linked earlier. Skip to step 7 if it is packs 2-12 since you now know what value it is.
4. If it is Pack 1 then the value is anywhere between 53-64 or 1. Reload the save again.
5. If the battle is Templars again then the value is now either 13 or 14.
6. Reload the save 4 times and fight a battle again. If everything was done correctly it should be either pack 1 or 2. You now know what value the Veldt encounter variable is set to!
7. Going forward you need to keep track of what the value of the variable is set to. Every time you reset and reload a save or select new game it will increase by 13.

Keep in mind that after 64 it wraps back around to 1 again. For example if the value is 60 and you reload the save then it will put you at pack 9. I'm sorry if this isn't clear enough or confusing. If you have any questions feel free to ask!

How would SDA treat such a run, with you essentially having to do things pre-run to set this up? Why wouldn't that time count if you're doing it deliberately?

[quote="LCC"]Hello again! I've been working on improving my run more and seem to have figured out how to manipulate the battles on the Veldt.

There is a variable that determines what set of monsters you encounter and can be anywhere from 1-64. This FAQ shows all of the different packs in the Veldt section (2.16): http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/562865-final-fantasy-vi/faqs/13573

Every time you reset/power on the game *and* load a game, either being a save or new game it increases this variable by 13. The monster packs that you can encounter up to that point in a speedrun are packs 1-12, 47-48 (only if you do Locke scenario first), and 52. It automatically rounds up to the next pack until it selects one with a pack that you have encountered before. In pack 52 is the Templar battle, which is why it's so common to get it first.  If the variable is 53 or above it wraps back down to pack 1.

The first thing you need to do is determine what value the variable is set to, so that you can manipulate it accordingly. 
1. Create a save at the beginning of the Veldt using the normal speedrunning route.
2. Fight one battle and reset/reload the save until the first encounter is NOT Templars.
3. Find the corresponding pack # in the FAQ i linked earlier. Skip to step 7 if it is packs 2-12 since you now know what value it is.
4. If it is Pack 1 then the value is anywhere between 53-64 or 1. Reload the save again.
5. If the battle is Templars again then the value is now either 13 or 14.
6. Reload the save 4 times and fight a battle again. If everything was done correctly it should be either pack 1 or 2. You now know what value the Veldt encounter variable is set to!
7. Going forward you need to keep track of what the value of the variable is set to. Every time you reset and reload a save or select new game it will increase by 13.

Keep in mind that after 64 it wraps back around to 1 again. For example if the value is 60 and you reload the save then it will put you at pack 9. I'm sorry if this isn't clear enough or confusing. If you have any questions feel free to ask![/quote]

How would SDA treat such a run, with you essentially having to do things pre-run to set this up?  Why wouldn't that time count if you're doing it deliberately?

puwexil

2014-01-01 08:37:55 pm

Professional Second Banana

I don't think it would be treated any differently than the FF1NES run on site that resets the game a bunch of times between attempts to manipulate the random encounters. The line would probably be drawn at doing stuff to clear the cartridge battery memory between attempts though (ie remove the battery).

garik16

2014-01-01 08:40:24 pm

Good to know, thanks Puwexil.

gyre

2014-01-02 12:21:24 am

Quote from puwexil:

I don't think it would be treated any differently than the FF1NES run on site that resets the game a bunch of times between attempts to manipulate the random encounters. The line would probably be drawn at doing stuff to clear the cartridge battery memory between attempts though (ie remove the battery).

The old published FF1 run isn't a good precedent. The consensus now is probably that it wouldn't be considered a legit run. The current FF1 runs including Feasel's WR start from clean power on.

LCC

2014-01-02 01:25:38 am

After more testing I found out that the value actually increases by 14 with each reload so I editted my post accordingly.

Wypy

2014-01-02 02:29:17 am

Deal with it!

Finally people are starting to pick up Veldt Manipulation. I first mentioned it back in August, trying to skip the Templar battle as well. Never thought about manipulating it before the real run though Tongue

Veldt Manipulation in general opens up some possibilities in the Glitchless category. Mainly being able to reliably get the Nightshade Rage for Gau, which is quite overpowered.

LCC

2014-01-17 12:47:35 pm

Looks like the Banquet glitch was confirmed to happen on console by MV:
http://www.twitch.tv/mistermv/c/3563792

It happened to dreamboum and I awhile ago as well:
http://www.twitch.tv/thelcc/c/3075397
http://www.twitch.tv/dreamboum/c/3177401

I haven't been able to consistently reproduce it, only a few times out of a lot of tries. You can walk left/right through the map and get the revivify in the chest, as well as talk to the soldier in that same room (invisible). If you walk to far up or down you get stuck in the wall.

oxydoreduction

Edit history:

oxydoreduction: 2014-01-28 11:13:01 am

2014-01-28 11:12:39 am

I've been thinking about the Veldt Manipulation using Wypy's and TheLCC's explanations.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, since the first time you launch a game the VV (Veldt Value) is 1 and it grows by 14 every time you reset and load / NG, then the VV can only be an odd number. Right?