Final Fantasy Legend Single-segment

paK0

2008-12-30 05:04:20 pm

o.O

weee, i definately would watch it, though i dont know the game Tongue

i never heard of it but what i read right now seemed interesting, so i wouldnt mind spending 2 hours watching it Cheesy

jam287

2009-01-02 11:23:14 am

Don't give up!

ShinerCCC

Edit history:

ShinerCCC: 2010-10-14 03:06:56 am

2010-10-14 03:03:50 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Yikes. Been a while since there was a post in here. I should point out the route has changed a lot since then but I won't go into details unless someone asks...save the surprises for the debut of the run =P

Over the summer I practiced speedrunning this game 5 days a week for over a month (the drive into work took 70 minutes, perfect for doing a test run). My best practice run was 79 minutes, and that could potentially be polished up.

I found a lot of little improvements and discovered where to look for Lamia meat effectively. I still have to test which is faster in World 4 once you get to the northeast town and recruit a Mutant F with Teleport:
- get Board, use Telepor, walk back to town and use Warrior Saw on Su-Zaku
- same as above but go through the tunnels
- after getting Board, ride the bike all the way back

Maybe one of those will lead to the biggest stat gains too?
Right now my biggest concern is Skycraper...sometimes when you first get in there you have to fight 5 Buruburus which are immune to Stone, which is awful. Sorcerers are also very scary.

By the way, I've started recording attempts, again on someone else's setup (but not Tyebo's this time, it's a nice Dazzle capture card for someone's laptop). First attempt broke down early when I accidentally used Nail instead of Horn on the first Redbull, leading to wacky combat...then I gained 2 steps in Sei-Ryu's penthouse and this turned out to be a bad thing as I got into an encounter in the Grenade closet and this screwed up a bunch of other stuff. Then invincible Su-Zaku ganked me as soon as I entered World 4. The second run failed 58 minutes in when 3 Chimeras and a Demon 3Heads my two remaining Mutants before they could even act. One-shotted both of them. LAME. I should have used a Revive on my Warrior, he could probably take the hit. Better yet, I should just manipulate that kind of stuff out of the run entirely.

I'll get a sub 79 recorded eventually!!!!!

Yikes. Been a while since there was a post in here. I should point out the route has changed a lot since then but I won't go into details unless someone asks...save the surprises for the debut of the run =P

Over the summer I practiced speedrunning this game 5 days a week for over a month (the drive into work took 70 minutes, perfect for doing a test run). My best practice run was 79 minutes, and that could potentially be polished up.

I found a lot of little improvements and discovered where to look for Lamia meat effectively. I still have to test which is faster in World 4 once you get to the northeast town and recruit a Mutant F with Teleport:
- get Board, use Telepor, walk back to town and use Warrior Saw on Su-Zaku
- same as above but go through the tunnels
- after getting Board, ride the bike all the way back

Maybe one of those will lead to the biggest stat gains too?
Right now my biggest concern is Skycraper...sometimes when you first get in there you have to fight 5 Buruburus which are immune to Stone, which is awful. Sorcerers are also very scary.

By the way, I've started recording attempts, again on someone else's setup (but not Tyebo's this time, it's a nice Dazzle capture card for someone's laptop). First attempt broke down early when I accidentally used Nail instead of Horn on the first Redbull, leading to wacky combat...then I gained 2 steps in Sei-Ryu's penthouse and this turned out to be a bad thing as I got into an encounter in the Grenade closet and this screwed up a bunch of other stuff. Then invincible Su-Zaku ganked me as soon as I entered World 4. The second run failed 58 minutes in when 3 Chimeras and a Demon 3Heads my two remaining Mutants before they could even act. One-shotted both of them. LAME. I   should have used a Revive on my Warrior, he could probably take the hit. Better yet, I should just manipulate that kind of stuff out of the run entirely.

I'll get a sub 79 recorded eventually!!!!!

ShinerCCC

2010-10-21 12:44:06 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Hey, I got a run recorded! ...Unfortunately it is 83:30 for length. My best practice run was 79 minutes. It is also certainly not SDA worthy because I fell into a pitfall before Ashura ;_; and also made a lot of stupid moves in the lategame, such as trying to stone enemies that were immune to stone.

However, I will upload it to YouTube in about 10 days as a "practice run" , then study it to see how to derivate from my nasty fate. Lee Eric Kirwan on GameFAQs says he's working on a TAS with someone else, they have input that beats the game in 40 minutes but they're looking to improve it. He also told me what memory addresses to poke in VBA so I can finally get some save states to practice on.

I got lucky and Evil Eye meat dropped, I fed it to my Beetle and he turned into a Demoking. Sleep was actually extremely useful against Sorcerers. Eventually it became a Squid (after eating Su-Zaku) and then an Evil Eye, which has the devastating Gaze 5 ability. Seems to be a guaranteed stone kill.

I ALMOST died to 1 Pudding 1 Vampire near the top. That would have sucked.

Hey, I got a run recorded! ...Unfortunately it is 83:30 for length. My best practice run was 79 minutes. It is also certainly not SDA worthy because I fell into a pitfall before Ashura ;_; and also made a lot of stupid moves in the lategame, such as trying to stone enemies that were immune to stone.

However, I will upload it to YouTube in about 10 days as a "practice run" , then study it to see how to derivate from my nasty fate. Lee Eric Kirwan on GameFAQs says he's working on a TAS with someone else, they have input that beats the game in 40 minutes but they're looking to improve it. He also told me what memory addresses to poke in VBA so I can finally get some save states to practice on.

I got lucky and Evil Eye meat dropped, I fed it to my Beetle and he turned into a Demoking. Sleep was actually extremely useful against Sorcerers. Eventually it became a Squid (after eating Su-Zaku) and then an Evil Eye, which has the devastating Gaze 5 ability. Seems to be a guaranteed stone kill.

I ALMOST died to 1 Pudding 1 Vampire near the top. That would have sucked.

ShinerCCC

2010-10-28 07:05:30 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Practice run is going up on YouTube. Part 1 is up as of this post but the other 5 parts should be up in several hours.

FionordeQuester

2010-11-13 07:46:54 pm

Yo Shiner, I've been watching and wondering "how do you determine which meat to let your monsters eat, and which meat you don't want them to eat"? Could you help me out there?

Poxnor

2010-11-13 10:08:35 pm

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There's a good meat transformation FAQ on GameFAQs:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gameboy/563273-the-final-fantasy-legend/faqs/16731

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-11-14 12:14:14 am

2010-11-14 12:13:33 am

So, does it matter what monster you happen to be before eating the meat? I wasn't quite clear on that. The way I understand it is, if you eat inferior meat, you have a chance to be weakened instead of strengthed, however, that chance decreases with each level.

But, what if the monster eats some meat that's outside his own group? Would he be a different monster than the monster that eats the same meat, but is in the group of monsters that that meat is in?

Poxnor

2010-11-14 03:51:03 am

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The link that I posted really is a good FAQ, and explains better than I could. The Reader's Digest version is this:

- Let L_current and G_current be the level and group of the monster eating the meat;
- Let L_meat and G_meat be the level and group of the meat being eaten;
- There is some group transformation function (a table lookup), F(G_current, G_meat) = G_new, that determines the new group to which the monster will transform;
- Let L_max = Max(L_current, L_meat);
- If there is a monster in G_new at level L_max, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, if there is a monster in G_new at level L_max+1, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, find the monster in G_new with the highest level less than L_max. If such a monster exists, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, you'll become the monster with the lowest level in G_new.

That L_max+1 conditional can be seriously abused. You can become, e.g., a Titan in the first world (not relevant for a speedrun, but very fun in a normal playthrough).

The link that I posted really is a good FAQ, and explains better than I could.  The Reader's Digest version is this:

- Let L_current and G_current be the level and group of the monster eating the meat;
- Let L_meat and G_meat be the level and group of the meat being eaten;
- There is some group transformation function (a table lookup), F(G_current, G_meat) = G_new, that determines the new group to which the monster will transform;
- Let L_max = Max(L_current, L_meat);
- If there is a monster in G_new at level L_max, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, if there is a monster in G_new at level L_max+1, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, find the monster in G_new with the highest level less than L_max.  If such a monster exists, you'll become that monster;
- Otherwise, you'll become the monster with the lowest level in G_new.

That L_max+1 conditional can be seriously abused.  You can become, e.g., a Titan in the first world (not relevant for a speedrun, but very fun in a normal playthrough).

ShinerCCC

2010-11-15 08:35:55 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

I much prefer this guide for meat transformation:
http://towerreversed.org/fflsaga/meat.html

I was totally winging it after I got Evil Eye meat, I had no idea what Thunder + Evil Eye might turn into. Demolord was actually quite useful, as you saw in Skyscraper.

I still haven't tried another test run. School is going to be raping me pretty hard until finals, but at least I will be done with all those early on. Now that the video is up, someone with a GBA can copy me and try stuff out =)

Poxnor

2011-02-13 08:39:28 am

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Just quickly adding my two cents:

First off, that was an amazing run ShinerCCC! Smiley

Also, I was thinking about ways to speed up the first world. I was playing around a bit with trimming the four guard fights in King Sword's castle down to one guard fight. The trade-off is then that you don't get the meat drop from the Lizard on the way back to Town of Hero (with some slight modifications to the fighting/running choices, you can get the Zombie meat drop from the single guard fight).

Unfortunately, this meant entering the Tower as a Hornet + Oni (becoming Hornet + Condor before World 2). You can easily get a Gecko meat drop on Airseed Island, and my plan was to get an Octopus drop then a Red Bone drop in the Underwater Castle to get a Beetle before Sei-Ryu. Unfortunately, as a Hornet (instead of a Beetle), you simply don't do as much damage, nor can you soak as much damage. I consistently got destroyed before making it to the Underwater Castle with that party, and fights were taking longer because I couldn't do as much damage. So, I'm throwing my support behind the route of fighting four guards in King Sword's castle, getting the Lizard drop, and fighting the Worms on Tower 5F to have a Beetle starting on World 2.

Cheers
--Poxnor

Just quickly adding my two cents:

First off, that was an amazing run ShinerCCC! :)

Also, I was thinking about ways to speed up the first world.  I was playing around a bit with trimming the four guard fights in King Sword's castle down to one guard fight.  The trade-off is then that you don't get the meat drop from the Lizard on the way back to Town of Hero (with some slight modifications to the fighting/running choices, you can get the Zombie meat drop from the single guard fight).

Unfortunately, this meant entering the Tower as a Hornet + Oni (becoming Hornet + Condor before World 2).  You can easily get a Gecko meat drop on Airseed Island, and my plan was to get an Octopus drop then a Red Bone drop in the Underwater Castle to get a Beetle before Sei-Ryu.  Unfortunately, as a Hornet (instead of a Beetle), you simply don't do as much damage, nor can you soak as much damage.  I consistently got destroyed before making it to the Underwater Castle with that party, and fights were taking longer because I couldn't do as much damage.  So, I'm throwing my support behind the route of fighting four guards in King Sword's castle, getting the Lizard drop, and fighting the Worms on Tower 5F to have a Beetle starting on World 2.

Cheers
--Poxnor

Poxnor

2011-02-13 08:44:09 am

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Quote from ShinerCCC:

I much prefer this guide for meat transformation:
http://towerreversed.org/fflsaga/meat.html

Thanks for posting that link. The other guide (the one I typically use) is easier to read, but it turns out that it's just plain wrong, haha. According to the guide I used, Condor + Octopus + Sei-Ryu = Clayman (better than a Gazer). Nope, not at all (you get a Woodman). Use the guide Shiner posted.

Cheers
--Poxnor

ShinerCCC

2011-02-13 05:04:52 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Thanks for helping Poxnor. I haven't worked on this much lately but with some help from FatRatKnight I managed to calibrate VBA's RAM to behave like an actual GBA from power-on so the random values are correct. So I started working on the run with savestates, then hit a snag because I couldn't decide if I wanted to stick to the current route in Underwater Castle: fight two guards (2 OCTOPUS then 3 OCTOPUS) because it's completely reliable and gives a lot of extra gold so I can buy 3 STONE books in the secret town in World 3. But I don't even need all 3 books, not even for the whole game (I can repair with ARCANE in the endgame if I need to) so the extra money is totally moot, it's just extra fights. I was then debating with myself if I should do no guard fights (faster, maybe? depends on the resultant later fights) or one guard fight (won't screw me over in a marathon setting, has slightly better WEREWOLVES because a BEAM will miss in zero guard fights). I can pass along my savestates if you want to work on it on emulator with me.

Poxnor

2011-02-13 05:30:11 pm

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No need to pass along the savestates. I'm still playing with slightly different combinations of running / battling in World 1 anyway (not necessarily better ones...time will tell if my current favourite combination doesn't cause some serious ripples in the rest of the run), so I don't think I'd gain anything from having access to them. Thanks for the offer, though!

As for the Octopus guards: I can't imagine anything that could screw over a live run more than those stupid things (especially messing up whatever meat drops you want after World 2). Those Octopus have to be the only actual random thing in the game.

I was mulling over this problem yesterday evening, trying to decide if working some Octopus battles into the route wouldn't be a bad thing, given that you're likely to get *at least* one in a live setting. Especially if the northernmost guard decides to walk left, blocking off your access to the grenades and silver armour without a fight. One plan I had was actually to get an Octopus meat drop (either to transform a Catwoman one step closer to a Beetle, but I'm not fond of that approach anymore; or, to transform the Condor into a Hornet before Sei-Ryu, but that plan fell on its face with the faulty meat algorithm in that one guide), but it's looking like I don't gain anything from the Octopus meat like I originally thought. Also, I'd have to decide how to interleave the Octopus fights with the Cactus fight in that room with some consistency...

No need to pass along the savestates.  I'm still playing with slightly different combinations of running / battling in World 1 anyway (not necessarily better ones...time will tell if my current favourite combination doesn't cause some serious ripples in the rest of the run), so I don't think I'd gain anything from having access to them.  Thanks for the offer, though!

As for the Octopus guards: I can't imagine anything that could screw over a live run more than those stupid things (especially messing up whatever meat drops you want after World 2).  Those Octopus have to be the only actual random thing in the game.

I was mulling over this problem yesterday evening, trying to decide if working some Octopus battles into the route wouldn't be a bad thing, given that you're likely to get *at least* one in a live setting.  Especially if the northernmost guard decides to walk left, blocking off your access to the grenades and silver armour without a fight.  One plan I had was actually to get an Octopus meat drop (either to transform a Catwoman one step closer to a Beetle, but I'm not fond of that approach anymore; or, to transform the Condor into a Hornet before Sei-Ryu, but that plan fell on its face with the faulty meat algorithm in that one guide), but it's looking like I don't gain anything from the Octopus meat like I originally thought.  Also, I'd have to decide how to interleave the Octopus fights with the Cactus fight in that room with some consistency...

Poxnor

Edit history:

Poxnor: 2011-02-18 11:48:10 pm

2011-02-18 11:43:18 pm

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I tried playing a bit with recruiting an additional monster in World 2, to help speed up some of those three-monster-group fights you start encountering in World 2. But, the best I could do was get it upgraded to a Red Bone pretty quickly, and I think (haven't really put much effort into it) that I could get it up to a Hornet in Sei-Ryu's castle. But, for the amount of time saved, I'm thinking that the amount of time spent recruiting a monster in World 2 isn't worth it. I noticed that in your test run, Shiner, you didn't recruit anyone in World 2. Did you come to the same conclusion?

(Though, it is possible to use the guild in World 2 to make a little money, if a future different route needs it there -- e.g., a route that needs to flee certain fights to manipulate the meat counter. You can recruit a female human or female mutant and sell the sabre, then let them die in battle.)

Umbrella Employee

2011-02-20 10:28:46 pm

Quote from Lucid Faia:

I love FFL. This sounds like a cool project to try if I ever get really bored one day.

lol i or ever bored for a month

Poxnor

2011-03-06 01:36:34 am

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I've discovered a slightly faster route for World 1. However, take it with a grain of salt -- any route changes this early will have dire ramifications on meat drops and enemy attacks later.

In my notes, I use the phrase "defaults" a lot. That means the first available attack for each character (i.e., for the mutant, this may be the Rapier, or the Flame spell when it appears). When I mean to just mash the A button, I'll write "mash."

Base Town:
- Female mutant (POX), Goblin (EDGR) and Albatros (RELM)
- Select, up, A (sets speed to high)
- Sell Sabre
- Buy 5 down, 4 down, 3 down, and 2 down
- Equip 3 down, default, 1 down, 2 down

Bandit's Cave:
- Kill everything with defaults
- Goblin (2P) eats Zombie, becomes O-Bake
- Albatros (3P) eats P-Frog, becomes Oni

Castle Armour:
- Kill everything with defaults
- O-Bake (2P) eats Albatros (second fight), becomes Oni
- POX equips armour

Get the Sword:
- Run from Lizard
- Zombie: Rapier, 2nd, 1st
- First Oni (2P) eats Zombie, becomes Phantom
- Ice Skeletons and Goblins
- Phantom (2P) eats Goblin, becomes Gecko
- Fight 1F guard after Goblin fight
- First round: Rapier on Zombie, 2nd + 1st on Rat
- Second round: mash
- Gecko (2P) eats Zombie, becomes Red Bone
- Switch 1P and 2P
- Run from Lizards
- 2F: Step north to get around guard (and on return trip)
- King Sword:
- First round: Ice + second attack
- Second round: Rapier
- POX equips King Sword

To Castle Shield:
- Kill Red Bull with defaults
- Red Bone (1P) eats Red Bull, becomes Hornet
- Run from everything until Lizard near South Town (defaults)
- Hornet (1P) eats Lizard, becomes Catwoman
- Steward's monsters: 2nd attacks on Skeletons, Ice Ashigarus
- Steward: mash
- Defaults on over-world fights

Hero Town:
- Use Sphere immediately
- Gen-Bu: Ice + second attacks (two rounds)

A few notes. First, for getting the last Lizard meat that transforms a monster into a Catwoman: you could instead wander to the far right at the bottom before leaving Castle Sword, fighting a lizard on your last step inside the castle. I think that's slower in practice.

Also, note that the Catwoman's second attack isn't necessary to kill the Skeleton, but it prevents Gen-Bu from using Gas on RELM and killing her. Killing the Zombie between Castle Shield and South Town is also to manipulate the Gen-Bu fight.

I've discovered a slightly faster route for World 1.  However, take it with a grain of salt -- any route changes this early will have dire ramifications on meat drops and enemy attacks later.

In my notes, I use the phrase "defaults" a lot.  That means the first available attack for each character (i.e., for the mutant, this may be the Rapier, or the Flame spell when it appears).  When I mean to just mash the A button, I'll write "mash."

[hidden]
Base Town:
- Female mutant (POX), Goblin (EDGR) and Albatros (RELM)
- Select, up, A (sets speed to high)
- Sell Sabre
- Buy 5 down, 4 down, 3 down, and 2 down
- Equip 3 down, default, 1 down, 2 down

Bandit's Cave:
- Kill everything with defaults
    - Goblin (2P) eats Zombie, becomes O-Bake
    - Albatros (3P) eats P-Frog, becomes Oni

Castle Armour:
- Kill everything with defaults
    - O-Bake (2P) eats Albatros (second fight), becomes Oni
- POX equips armour

Get the Sword:
- Run from Lizard
- Zombie: Rapier, 2nd, 1st
    - First Oni (2P) eats Zombie, becomes Phantom
- Ice Skeletons and Goblins
    - Phantom (2P) eats Goblin, becomes Gecko
- Fight 1F guard after Goblin fight
    - First round: Rapier on Zombie, 2nd + 1st on Rat
    - Second round: mash
    - Gecko (2P) eats Zombie, becomes Red Bone
- Switch 1P and 2P
- Run from Lizards
- 2F: Step north to get around guard (and on return trip)
- King Sword:
    - First round: Ice + second attack
    - Second round: Rapier
    - POX equips King Sword

To Castle Shield:
- Kill Red Bull with defaults
    - Red Bone (1P) eats Red Bull, becomes Hornet
- Run from everything until Lizard near South Town (defaults)
    - Hornet (1P) eats Lizard, becomes Catwoman
- Steward's monsters: 2nd attacks on Skeletons, Ice Ashigarus
- Steward: mash
- Defaults on over-world fights

Hero Town:
- Use Sphere immediately
- Gen-Bu: Ice + second attacks (two rounds)
[/hidden]

A few notes.  First, for getting the last Lizard meat that transforms a monster into a Catwoman: you could instead wander to the far right at the bottom before leaving Castle Sword, fighting a lizard on your last step inside the castle.  I think that's slower in practice.

Also, note that the Catwoman's second attack isn't necessary to kill the Skeleton, but it prevents Gen-Bu from using Gas on RELM and killing her.  Killing the Zombie between Castle Shield and South Town is also to manipulate the Gen-Bu fight.

Poxnor

2011-03-29 11:59:07 am

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A Beholder, a Basilisk, and a Warrior, blasting death to everything that gets in their way during the re-ascent. I have a Hori Pad on order, and hopefully I'll be able to start recording attempts within a few weeks.

Thanks for all the help! Smiley

Poxnor

2011-03-29 11:04:55 pm

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A new meat FAQ, combining the best of both worlds (attached)

Attachment:

Meat.txt

ShinerCCC

2011-04-05 05:09:52 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Wait, you're going with three monsters? That sounds like a pretty drastic route change, but it makes sense. Can you describe the whole thing (or at least, what you do after Sei-Ryu)? I haven't worked on this run in a while because I'm frozen with indecision over how many OCTOPUS guards to fight Tongue

Poxnor

2011-04-05 12:15:49 pm

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Quote from ShinerCCC:

Wait, you're going with three monsters? That sounds like a pretty drastic route change, but it makes sense. Can you describe the whole thing (or at least, what you do after Sei-Ryu)?

Heh, there's a change or two, you could say Wink

I start with the shorter method of beating Continent (fighting one guard in King Sword's castle on 1F, instead of four on 2F). In Base Town, I recruit a Skeleton before the ascent from Continent to Water World. During the ascent, there are three Gargoyle meat drops, and the Skeleton eats all of them to become a Raven (a stronger version of the Condor you grabbed). As in your route, the Catwoman eats Worm meat to become a Beetle.

In the nasty Phantom+Shrimp battle outside Sei-Ryu's castle, the Oni eats Shrimp to become a Rhino, who later eats Cactus to become an Atomcrab. To set your mind at ease, I settled on two Octopus battles, since getting none is virtually impossible and fighting only one causes Sei-Ryu not to drop meat (based on which battles I flee) Wink

. The Raven eats Sei-Ryu to become a Gazer.

During the next ascent, the Atomcrab eats the Woodman to become a Mantcore. The Gazer eats Medusa to become a Crab (yeah, I actually give up the Gazer *gasp*). The Mantcore then eats an Atomcrab to become a Gazer Wink

(It's weird, but it's to get the Crab). The Crab eats Mantcore to become a Thorn.

Upon reaching Sky Town, the Thorn eats Mosquito (the pub fight) to become a Ten-Gu. By the time I'm going to find Jeanne, the Gazer is starting to become less useful; it eats Siren to become a Crab. The three guards attacking Jeanne: the Ten-Gu eats P-Worm to become a Giant. Right before getting tossed in jail, the Crab eats Sabercat to become a Gunfish. While escaping jail, the Giant eats Mosquito to become a Wight (I bet you can see where this is going Wink

). The Gunfish eats Imp (the ones guarding the Jail Key) to become a Mou-Jya.

During the ascent to the World of Ruin, the Mou-Jya eats Gazer to become a Ten-Gu. I refrain from upgrading the Ten-Gu for a while, since it's actually counter-productive (you wind up in a bad class of monster, in terms of moving up, if you upgrade the Ten-Gu with any of the meat drops). And, the Wight eats Ant Lion to become...Warrior! Smiley

In the Subway to Akiba, the Ten-Gu eats Lamia to become an Ironman (yay, tank!). The Beetle is becoming less useful at this point (Saw misses too frequently), and it eats the Evil Eye meat to become a Demoking. It's quick and easy to upgrade the Ironman to a Fireman in Su-Zaku's train by eating Behemoth to become a Ko-Run, then eating Dragon 3. I actually ignore Su-Zaku's meat.

It's nice to have the Demoking still for Teleport. Upon reaching 23F (Ashura's floor), I teleport back to 1F and fight a lizard Wink

Doing so eliminates some horrible fights on 23F that take forever, and I use this fight to bank some successful runs (i.e., by manipulating the run-PRNG) for the re-ascent.

During the re-ascent, the Demoking eats Gen-Bu2 to become death personified -- a Beholder. The Fireman eats Sei-Ryu2 to become Tiamat, who then eats a Boneking (my most hated of enemies) to become a Basilisk (death personified's understudy). I actually have the Basilisk eats Su-Zaku2 to become a Ki-Rin, who can better soak damage in a few fights. The banked runs from the 1F teleport allow me to flee the nastiest of the fights on the re-ascent (e.g., the group of Firemen while ascending to the Creator's living room).

[quote="ShinerCCC"]Wait, you're going with three monsters? That sounds like a pretty drastic route change, but it makes sense. Can you describe the whole thing (or at least, what you do after Sei-Ryu)?[/quote]
Heh, there's a change or two, you could say ;)

I start with the shorter method of beating Continent (fighting one guard in King Sword's castle on 1F, instead of four on 2F).  In Base Town, I recruit a Skeleton before the ascent from Continent to Water World.  During the ascent, there are three Gargoyle meat drops, and the Skeleton eats all of them to become a Raven (a stronger version of the Condor you grabbed).  As in your route, the Catwoman eats Worm meat to become a Beetle.

In the nasty Phantom+Shrimp battle outside Sei-Ryu's castle, the Oni eats Shrimp to become a Rhino, who later eats Cactus to become an Atomcrab.  To set your mind at ease, I settled on two Octopus battles, since getting none is virtually impossible and fighting only one causes Sei-Ryu not to drop meat (based on which battles I flee) ;) .  The Raven eats Sei-Ryu to become a Gazer.

During the next ascent, the Atomcrab eats the Woodman to become a Mantcore.  The Gazer eats Medusa to become a Crab (yeah, I actually give up the Gazer *gasp*).  The Mantcore then eats an Atomcrab to become a Gazer ;)  (It's weird, but it's to get the Crab).  The Crab eats Mantcore to become a Thorn.

Upon reaching Sky Town, the Thorn eats Mosquito (the pub fight) to become a Ten-Gu.  By the time I'm going to find Jeanne, the Gazer is starting to become less useful; it eats Siren to become a Crab.  The three guards attacking Jeanne: the Ten-Gu eats P-Worm to become a Giant.  Right before getting tossed in jail, the Crab eats Sabercat to become a Gunfish.  While escaping jail, the Giant eats Mosquito to become a Wight (I bet you can see where this is going ;) ).  The Gunfish eats Imp (the ones guarding the Jail Key) to become a Mou-Jya.

During the ascent to the World of Ruin, the Mou-Jya eats Gazer to become a Ten-Gu.  I refrain from upgrading the Ten-Gu for a while, since it's actually counter-productive (you wind up in a bad class of monster, in terms of moving up, if you upgrade the Ten-Gu with any of the meat drops).  And, the Wight eats Ant Lion to become...Warrior! :)

In the Subway to Akiba, the Ten-Gu eats Lamia to become an Ironman (yay, tank!).  The Beetle is becoming less useful at this point (Saw misses too frequently), and it eats the Evil Eye meat to become a Demoking.  It's quick and easy to upgrade the Ironman to a Fireman in Su-Zaku's train by eating Behemoth to become a Ko-Run, then eating Dragon 3.  I actually ignore Su-Zaku's meat.

It's nice to have the Demoking still for Teleport.  Upon reaching 23F (Ashura's floor), I teleport back to 1F and fight a lizard ;)  Doing so eliminates some horrible fights on 23F that take forever, and I use this fight to bank some successful runs (i.e., by manipulating the run-PRNG) for the re-ascent.

During the re-ascent, the Demoking eats Gen-Bu2 to become death personified -- a Beholder.  The Fireman eats Sei-Ryu2 to become Tiamat, who then eats a Boneking (my most hated of enemies) to become a Basilisk (death personified's understudy).  I actually have the Basilisk eats Su-Zaku2 to become a Ki-Rin, who can better soak damage in a few fights.  The banked runs from the 1F teleport allow me to flee the nastiest of the fights on the re-ascent (e.g., the group of Firemen while ascending to the Creator's living room).

Poxnor

2011-04-09 12:53:04 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

I got a 72:30 recorded tonight. The only big mistake was during the re-ascent: my finger slipped on the controller and I walked back through a door that I had just walked through. This resulted in an extra battle against a BoneKing (uggh). I might try to get sub-72 before submitting...but, the rest of the run aside from that stupid mistake went really well, so I'm not really sure...

ShinerCCC

2011-04-12 08:07:45 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Wow, that is quite an improvement over my old route Poxnor! If I get the chance I'll try out your route, although I don't think I'll be able to copy it since certain specifics are omitted, like which actions to take and what fights to flee from.

You know I posted a long "escape counter" list that showed whether fleeing will be successful or not for about 100 attempts, right? That might help if you want to tweak your route more. I also

Poxnor

2011-04-12 09:27:42 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Quote from ShinerCCC:

Wow, that is quite an improvement over my old route Poxnor! If I get the chance I'll try out your route, although I don't think I'll be able to copy it since certain specifics are omitted, like which actions to take and what fights to flee from.

Fair enough -- it does omit which fights I flee, etc. I'm preparing a submission to SDA. If it's rejected, I'd be happy to post the video to YouTube showing all those specifics Smiley

Quote from ShinerCCC:

You know I posted a long "escape counter" list that showed whether fleeing will be successful or not for about 100 attempts, right? That might help if you want to tweak your route more.

I saw that list. Thank you very much for posting that. It was very useful (e.g., to get a long flee-fail chain to line up with a harmless enemy).

I never got around to making a meat-drop counter, but that's another game counter to manipulate. If there are multiple enemies in a battle for which the meat-drop counter is TRUE, the left-most one is the one for which meat will appear.

Quote from "ShinerCCC:

I also

Me too, sometimes Wink

[quote="ShinerCCC"]Wow, that is quite an improvement over my old route Poxnor! If I get the chance I'll try out your route, although I don't think I'll be able to copy it since certain specifics are omitted, like which actions to take and what fights to flee from.[/quote]
Fair enough -- it does omit which fights I flee, etc.  I'm preparing a submission to SDA.  If it's rejected, I'd be happy to post the video to YouTube showing all those specifics :)

[quote="ShinerCCC"]You know I posted a long "escape counter" list that showed whether fleeing will be successful or not for about 100 attempts, right? That might help if you want to tweak your route more.[/quote]
I saw that list.  Thank you very much for posting that.  It was very useful (e.g., to get a long flee-fail chain to line up with a harmless enemy).

I never got around to making a meat-drop counter, but that's another game counter to manipulate.  If there are multiple enemies in a battle for which the meat-drop counter is TRUE, the left-most one is the one for which meat will appear.

[quote="ShinerCCC]I also [/quote]
Me too, sometimes ;)

Terribleno

2011-04-12 09:42:42 am

Quote:

I'm preparing a submission to SDA. If it's rejected

Incomprehensible. I kinda doubt you have sloppy mistakes or a bad route, so there's no way this could be rejected. But then again...