I don't see anything wrong with not timing it. Start the timing when you begin the playthrough you'll beat the game on, that's how I see it. FF6 SNES runs have encounter manip that involves resetting a bunch to change the seed you get, but as that's not part of the playthrough, there's no reason to time it. Same thing here
SDA Forum
Well the top tier runs involve resets both before and after hitting new game, to preset the encounter seed and then to shift it around a bit later on, iirc. Basically what I'm saying is the rest of the FF speedrun community would agree with me when I said that it doesn't matter if you preset RNG. Not part of the playthrough, not part of the timing. Save and resets during the run, such as the ones LCC does in the Lete River, ARE part of the playthrough, but before hitting new game whatever happens is irrelevant.
So either way it is RNG manipulation from a decidedly arbitrary point, but they just cut out the time till they get an RNG seed that is favorable to their run. SS RTA runs I would agree simply start from new game (no pre-game settings), but if allowing that kind of pre-game configuration for a single-sement llends itself to a multi-segment run since you are essentially editing out time. I don't agree with the majority, but what does it matter, I'm just one person that can't enforce a silly rule about when a run should or should not start, lol. All that matters in the first section of the game is: Get a potion, antarctic wind, and arctic wind (from Land Turtle) in the least amount of time. Adding a pre-game configuration gives more possibilities to the user, but also makes it harder to gauge and test whether or not how they do their configuration beforehand lends to a faster time. Until we investigate the source code of FFIII directly, it's basically just a tedious task of executing actions, and then testing said results over multiple attempts to iron out details.
Does anyone have a confirmed / safe link to an DS emulator and ROM of FFIII?
Does anyone have a confirmed / safe link to an DS emulator and ROM of FFIII?
Speedrunning Final Fantasy III DS
WasabiKnight used an emulator, but I'm not sure where exactly he got it from.
So if I understand all this correctly, we are allowed to do pre-game manipulation without it adding to the time? If so, then I'll keep it in the document, which is close to completion now. There is only a few more things that could be changed/optimized like making some things optional, but that depends on each individual run, imo. Anyways, I want to discuss 2 things. Toads and Teleport-cancel. Teleport cancel is done by using Teleport (both Teleport and Ottershroom works) and while the screen is about to fade out, open up your Menu (very strict timing) and you should cancel the Teleport (temporarily) by opening the Menu. There you can use Elixirs, or even change job, if you so wish, before you exit your menu, which will then resume the earlier teleportation and get you out of the dungeon/whatever. I can see it saving some time (like a few seconds) but I'm not sure where it could be used effectively. Tell me if you have some good examples.
And then there is Toads. Seriously, tho, Using toads can be a big timesaver. I timed how much time it saved, and it was about 5 seconds per turn with a full party of Toads (and everyone used an attacking item). Here's a list of the good and bad things about Toads:
- No animation (which means items come out faster, can mash trough level up-text without having to wait for the animations to finish). This is the only draw for a Toad strat.
- Takes more time from character to character in battle. Basically it takes more time before you can input anything after selecting an action with a character.
- Loses all Vitality and Defense (but keeps Magic Defense). This means you need to heal more often.
- You cannot use any Magic except Toad (no efficent healing) (Potion-strat?)
So we should only use them on characters that attack. Also, we should keep in mind that those 5 secs were spard when all characters attacked. In the avaerage battle, we'll only face 2 enemies, which means only 2 of our characters will spare time by attacking them, while the other two will waste some time. So maybe we can, early on, kill either one or two of the party members and primarily focus on playing through the game as fast as possible with only 2 characters They'd get a lot more EXP, and thus learns Level 2 and 3 spells earlier and make gaps between characters level-wise and more. All this could work, but we'd need to plan it thoroughly, before implementing it into the guide. So anyone want to help with this?
So if I understand all this correctly, we are allowed to do pre-game manipulation without it adding to the time? If so, then I'll keep it in the document, which is close to completion now. There is only a few more things that could be changed/optimized like making some things optional, but that depends on each individual run, imo. Anyways, I want to discuss 2 things. Toads and Teleport-cancel. Teleport cancel is done by using Teleport (both Teleport and Ottershroom works) and while the screen is about to fade out, open up your Menu (very strict timing) and you should cancel the Teleport (temporarily) by opening the Menu. There you can use Elixirs, or even change job, if you so wish, before you exit your menu, which will then resume the earlier teleportation and get you out of the dungeon/whatever. I can see it saving some time (like a few seconds) but I'm not sure where it could be used effectively. Tell me if you have some good examples.
And then there is Toads. Seriously, tho, Using toads can be a big timesaver. I timed how much time it saved, and it was about 5 seconds per turn with a full party of Toads (and everyone used an attacking item). Here's a list of the good and bad things about Toads:
- No animation (which means items come out faster, can mash trough level up-text without having to wait for the animations to finish). This is the only draw for a Toad strat.
- Takes more time from character to character in battle. Basically it takes more time before you can input anything after selecting an action with a character.
- Loses all Vitality and Defense (but keeps Magic Defense). This means you need to heal more often.
- You cannot use any Magic except Toad (no efficent healing) (Potion-strat?)
So we should only use them on characters that attack. Also, we should keep in mind that those 5 secs were spard when all characters attacked. In the avaerage battle, we'll only face 2 enemies, which means only 2 of our characters will spare time by attacking them, while the other two will waste some time. So maybe we can, early on, kill either one or two of the party members and primarily focus on playing through the game as fast as possible with only 2 characters They'd get a lot more EXP, and thus learns Level 2 and 3 spells earlier and make gaps between characters level-wise and more. All this could work, but we'd need to plan it thoroughly, before implementing it into the guide. So anyone want to help with this?
Speedrunning Final Fantasy III DS
I don't think you were there in WasabiKnight's stream the time Yoshiharu came and told us about it + it is already mentioned in the guide (in the "Further Notes" section). However, yes, the glitch can be used, and will save a couple of seconds (maybe some minutes) and even makes a Ninja strat late game more viable. The only down side to it it that it only works on the Japanese version, which is pretty bad for most of us. If you, or someone else for that matter, wants to use it here is the places I think it would be most optimal: You do not go to Tokkul to pick anything up, and just go to the Village of the Ancients and continue the way you'd normally do it. When you eventually get to Ghysal, stop by the magic shop and buy any lelvel 4 spell they have, and duplicate it a lot of times (about ~45 times should be enough) and that is how you get enough money for the game. If you want Ninja strats, then go to the end of Eureka, buy Arise (because you might actually need that) and duplicate it 60 times at least, maybe more, maybe twice as much, and maybe even thrice as much.
Anyways, with all that said, I still think a better early game strategy can be found. Killing off 2 characters in the Djinn cave can spare us time. Maybe killing one extra guy when we climb the tower of Owen? Should we try to implement Toad strategies? In the Tower of Owen? In the Subterranean Lake? In the Sunken Cave?
Anyways, with all that said, I still think a better early game strategy can be found. Killing off 2 characters in the Djinn cave can spare us time. Maybe killing one extra guy when we climb the tower of Owen? Should we try to implement Toad strategies? In the Tower of Owen? In the Subterranean Lake? In the Sunken Cave?
So, I came up with an idea for a new route, based on the latter half of the past above me. The idea is to kill off 2 characters at the beginning of the game, then leave them dead until grinding, so that in the end you have to do less grinding, since the 2 dead characters will gain hp faster, and the 2 characters that were alive are already a higher level, which will save a bit of time. For garuda, you just resurrect the two dead characters, no matter what he does, you should be able to kill him, especially if you're able to survive lightnings from being a higher level. The idea for grinding would be to either do the standard grind that the current route does, or possibly nautilus clip into ancient maze earlier, then grind in sunken shrine for hp. The latter would have the advantages of easier temple of time, and better grinding, since in sunken of shrine, all non flying enemies would die to 1 earthen drum. I also don't like the idea of fighting encounters in cave of shadows, you can't usually kill stuff with one earthen drum. To fix this you'd have to either not kill, or get 2 scholars in your party for double drum.
So, if any of you have feedback on this, it'd be greatly appreciated.
So, if any of you have feedback on this, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Speedrunning Final Fantasy III DS
Hey CronoKirby! Sorry for this late reply... this thread has been rather dead for a while and very few people have done any more research / routing / running of this game in the last couple of months. But that aside, you do have some interesting suggestions. Killing characters early game is risky, but I do think it will save time. What we'd have to consider is how safe it is, how easy it is to kill a character fast, how difficult boss fights will become, how many enemies you can meet at one time (if theres 3 enemies, you can't beat them all in 1 turn with only 2 characters alive). If we manage to get RNG manipulation down in early game, this will become much easier.
So far I think we can kill 2 characters in the Djinn Cave, Tower of Owen and Molten Cave. The rest of the places are a little bit risky, due to either being forced to being Mini, or being petrified. When we come to Hein's Castle, we do the regular things, but turn the 2 weaker characters into Knights, easy levels, LOTS of HP. The Garuda fight will probably not be that different, tho. Still a 40%-75% to win, or something.
About the grinding. Are you suggesting getting into the Ancient's Maze immediately when we get the diving Nautilus? I don't think that'll work very well. No Chocobo's Wraths, (most likely) can't beat the boss and the enemies there doesn't give any more experience than those in the Sunken Cave iirc. I may have misunderstood you here, though.
It's been a while since I ran this game, but I think our strat in the Cave of Shadows were to use Earthen Drum with the Scholar, and use Chocobo's Wrath the the Black Belts. I think that should end the battle in one turn. We really do need the experience there, as the Black Belts will get so much needed HP when they level up, which is why we went to the Ancient's Maze early.
Nice to see another runner, after all this time! If you have any small questions feel free to ask me here in a PM, or add me on Skype (BenDesch or BenDesch98, from Norway)... or you can post it here, if you think more people should know about it. Also, if you're ever planning to run (as in streaming it) then be sure to tell me!
So far I think we can kill 2 characters in the Djinn Cave, Tower of Owen and Molten Cave. The rest of the places are a little bit risky, due to either being forced to being Mini, or being petrified. When we come to Hein's Castle, we do the regular things, but turn the 2 weaker characters into Knights, easy levels, LOTS of HP. The Garuda fight will probably not be that different, tho. Still a 40%-75% to win, or something.
About the grinding. Are you suggesting getting into the Ancient's Maze immediately when we get the diving Nautilus? I don't think that'll work very well. No Chocobo's Wraths, (most likely) can't beat the boss and the enemies there doesn't give any more experience than those in the Sunken Cave iirc. I may have misunderstood you here, though.
It's been a while since I ran this game, but I think our strat in the Cave of Shadows were to use Earthen Drum with the Scholar, and use Chocobo's Wrath the the Black Belts. I think that should end the battle in one turn. We really do need the experience there, as the Black Belts will get so much needed HP when they level up, which is why we went to the Ancient's Maze early.
Nice to see another runner, after all this time! If you have any small questions feel free to ask me here in a PM, or add me on Skype (BenDesch or BenDesch98, from Norway)... or you can post it here, if you think more people should know about it. Also, if you're ever planning to run (as in streaming it) then be sure to tell me!
Well, I am indeed interested in the run. I got a few attempts under my belt back in the summer. The thing I was getting at was replacing the current grind in bahamut's lair, with a sunken shrine grind. The grind itself is more efficient, and if we could have access to black belts before this grind, it would surpass the current grind, and possible allow us to run from subsequent battles. At that point, we could use a thief for flee.
You can never have too much zips
Hey FF III community! I have been working on learning this game for about a week and a half. Cool to see that there a lot of information about the game here.
I did not had the time read everything here, but I did found something you guys might be interested in.
This footage was played on a NTSC New 3ds XL. I do not currently know which other consoles this would work, but I do know that it do not on emulator.
A few important things to keep in mind is that:
1-Guarding on the second turn of the 3 goblins battle is important to the RNG. If you try to attack, you will always miss anyways.
2-I think if you don't optimize your movement enough going to the Antartic Wind chest, you will get an encounter right before it.
3- I named myself "BOCO" just for fun, it does not change anything with the RNG if you just keep "Luneth".
I did not had the time read everything here, but I did found something you guys might be interested in.
This footage was played on a NTSC New 3ds XL. I do not currently know which other consoles this would work, but I do know that it do not on emulator.
A few important things to keep in mind is that:
1-Guarding on the second turn of the 3 goblins battle is important to the RNG. If you try to attack, you will always miss anyways.
2-I think if you don't optimize your movement enough going to the Antartic Wind chest, you will get an encounter right before it.
3- I named myself "BOCO" just for fun, it does not change anything with the RNG if you just keep "Luneth".