Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Dungeon (NTSC-J Complete)

Red_Shifter

Edit history:

Red_Shifter: 2008-09-07 02:25:16 am

2008-09-07 02:11:29 am

yes, an iron knuckle riding a mechanical horse

~~One thing you could try is getting Holy book drops. I know for a fact that they can drop in the Guardian of Dark dungeon.~~ From testing it appears Holy books do far less damage than the real thing for some reason. In this case, the "real thing" is a Lv.99 White Mage.

If it ends up you need more money to finish the run than you have, maybe you need to change your strategies. Are you selling Hi-Potions or holding onto them? I'm not sure how much HP you'd have at Level 34, but it's probably a better idea to hold onto your Hi-Potions and only use your magic for healing when absolutely necessary. (This is if you're even getting a supply of Hi-Potions to begin with.)

What strategy are you using against The Destroyer? It's been a while since I've fought him so I forget his tendencies. I remember he has the Dark Cloud attack, which works mostly like a single tile Ice Wall (except you can't break through the barriers). I also remember his final form being very devastating with physical attacks.

You may want to just start using the Charge ability, long since left for dead. Sometimes it gives you "Missed!" but often you'll be able to restore more than you put into it. You may want to leave 1 SP laying around after any attack (so try to have 4 SP on hand before you throw down a Holy). This may help you, but it may require a varying amount of luck based on how many castings of Holy you need. If you do this, you should only use Hi-Ethers when you run out of SP or are coming very close to finishing off his final form.

[s]One thing you could try is getting Holy book drops.  I know for a fact that they can drop in the Guardian of Dark dungeon.[/s]  From testing it appears Holy books do far less damage than the real thing for some reason.  In this case, the "real thing" is a Lv.99 White Mage.

If it ends up you need more money to finish the run than you have, maybe you need to change your strategies.  Are you selling Hi-Potions or holding onto them?  I'm not sure how much HP you'd have at Level 34, but it's probably a better idea to hold onto your Hi-Potions and only use your magic for healing when absolutely necessary. (This is if you're even getting a supply of Hi-Potions to begin with.)

What strategy are you using against The Destroyer?  It's been a while since I've fought him so I forget his tendencies.  I remember he has the Dark Cloud attack, which works mostly like a single tile Ice Wall (except you can't break through the barriers).  I also remember his final form being very devastating with physical attacks.

You may want to just start using the Charge ability, long since left for dead.  Sometimes it gives you "Missed!" but often you'll be able to restore more than you put into it.  You may want to leave 1 SP laying around after any attack (so try to have 4 SP on hand before you throw down a Holy).  This may help you, but it may require a varying amount of luck based on how many castings of Holy you need.  If you do this, you should only use Hi-Ethers when you run out of SP or are coming very close to finishing off his final form.

messenger

2008-09-07 04:00:07 pm

I agree with the hi potion idea. I have plenty of space in my inventory and if I do it right the next time around I should have less time, more XP, and more gil.

The dark cloud attack only hits you when you step on the refresh SP tile in the middle and it prevents you from standing on it again for a few turns. It seems that after the Destroyer is down to a quarter of his HP he stops teleporting and just runs after you. Also the refresh SP tile seems to stop working after you (ab)use it too much. I am convinced that I COULD kill him (I got him to 100 or so hp, but I ran out of hi ethers), so I will treat the test run as successful. One important thing that I learned is that the destroyer has an attack that kills all positive status buffs (like resurrect), so phoenix downs are useless (and angel robes as well to some point, yay an extra 2000!). I am going to start nailing down the segments a lot more concretely over the next few weeks and if I get video hardware, I will hopefully be posting a test run.

I agree with the hi potion idea.  I have plenty of space in my inventory and if I do it right the next time around I should have less time, more XP, and more gil.

The dark cloud attack only hits you when you step on the refresh SP tile in the middle and it prevents you from standing on it again for a few turns.  It seems that after the Destroyer is down to a quarter of his HP he stops teleporting and just runs after you.  Also the refresh SP tile seems to stop working after you (ab)use it too much.  I am convinced that I COULD kill him (I got him to 100 or so hp, but I ran out of hi ethers), so I will treat the test run as successful.  One important thing that I learned is that the destroyer has an attack that kills all positive status buffs (like resurrect), so phoenix downs are useless (and angel robes as well to some point, yay an extra 2000!).  I am going to start nailing down the segments a lot more concretely over the next few weeks and if I get video hardware, I will hopefully be posting a test run.

Red_Shifter

2008-09-07 04:10:15 pm

yes, an iron knuckle riding a mechanical horse

I think you should go ahead and kill him, then see how much of the ridiculously long credits can be skipped. Since the game saves at the end and shows the time on the file down to the second, this would be the best place to measure the total time of the run.

messenger

2008-09-07 09:31:13 pm

Fine! I spent 5 minutes getting more hi ethers and beat him. I underestimated how much time the credits rolling takes! My final save time is 6:15:42.

I will give myself a target time of 5 hours. Lets hope I can hit it!

messenger

2009-01-14 05:57:06 pm

Finally got some capture hardware working and some movement on this run should start happening in this year :-P.

getter77

2009-01-14 06:26:43 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Awesome!

messenger

2009-02-24 07:55:42 pm

Not technically related to the run directly, but I have fixed my SD card slot. I am still amazed that me and my friend managed to take apart a Wii, resolder the SD card slot connection points, put it back together, and it FIXED it! Now I just need to get crackin at some segments. Woo hoo!

Red_Shifter

2009-02-25 02:15:49 am

yes, an iron knuckle riding a mechanical horse

I sold my copy, so I'm not going to be able to provide anything other than moral support.

getter77

2009-02-25 07:42:53 am

100% runs=great to watch

Good luck and keep at it!

mills

2009-02-25 05:53:57 pm

I love this game, keep it up. A couple times i got 15k exp from mini cactuars. Right now I am level 96.

Another good idea would be to go to the hidey hole and say "Pirouette" with a musical note after it and get the dancer job.

Poxnor

2012-06-24 10:08:58 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Alright, time to raise this thread from the dead. FFgamer86 and I are slowly starting to work on a single-segment route of this game. Unfortunately, most of our exchanges have been during streaming, random one-liner emails, etc. I really want to change that and get some things recorded on this thread. So, this post is probably going to be a terrible random mishmash of things, but I'm sure FFgamer86 and others can improve things as we go along.

First off, the most important thing in this game -- bloody cute things you can do (yeah, totally unimportant for a speedrun, but it's what makes this game so cool):
- Sipping tea by the sea
- Riding the mine cart in circles (can you trigger another chocobo to join you somehow?)
- Swinging on the swing
- Riding the seesaw with another chocobo
- Going down a slide
- Swimming in circles in the pond
- Snuggling in bed (cuteness times 1000, here)

Yeah, okay, that's out of my system. Now, let's talk speedrun.

At a high level, there are still a few overall route ideas we're thinking of. One important fact is that once you make it to GotF 11F (11th floor of Guardian of the Flame), you can abuse the miniboss teleporter to make a bunch of experience, gold (by selling magicite if you get teleported to the moogle instead), and even some JP. Our current thinking is that abusing miniboss teleporters on floors that you can quickly return to (GotF 11F, GotW 21F, ...?) will be essential to a single-segment. With that in mind, the two overall ideas we're battling between are:

- White Mage all the way. Level up your chocobo in GotF 11F and Dia the heck out of everything. Pretty overpowered, good healing, self-protection (Shell / Protect); or,
- All on GotF 11F: get Black Mage to Lv.2 (not a necessary part of the route, per se, and could be skipped with reliable moogle-stealing strats), use Sleep to reliably steal Thief's Memories, get Thief to lv.3, and avoid all enemies except minibosses that can be abused for quick levels. Maybe has the potential to be faster?

There was also some discussion about Dark Knight lv.7 being overpowered against bosses, but I can't remember the details, and I don't think we've yet discussed how a route of that could be accomplished.

Alternately, can we buy Sight[] from Charlotte before we complete her memories and get the best of both the White Mage and Thief ideas? (FFgamer86 and I both did casual playthroughs while we were planning, and neither of us thought to check on this, heh -- note: this needs to be checked; alternately, if we need to do her memories to buy Sight[], would doing her memories be worth it in order to get Sight[] in conjunction with a White Mage?)

Some totally random notes about individual dungeons, but I'm just trying to get everything about our discussions into this thread:
- Kicking potions rocks against undead bosses.
- Another possible levelling opportunity just after Ifrit (faster?): GotF 16F-18F, you can only fight Demons and Fire Dragons. Demons give 45 XP, 5-10 JP and can drop ethers. Fire Dragons give 50 XP, 16-19 JP, and can drop hi-potions. Gold stuff can also be found once you get to 11F (sell / fuse).
- Blindness Talons can be acquired early; and, while not super-effective, they could save your life in an SS.
- Meddit's memories are optional, but you could acquire a bundle of damage potions to kick at bosses (without even bothering to complete his memories, unless we want to buy his stuff).
- Magic Urns in GotW give a disproportionately high amount of XP.
- Anyone that can use Shell (either natively or from a book) then just physically wail on Leviathan should be able to take him out well.
- Shirma's memories at the beginning of Chapter 4 are going to be a stumbling block, because everything is so much faster than you; still a sticking point.
- We've only so-far found the Mini-Cactuar that gives XP and JP in amazing bundles on Chocobo 90F, so he's probably not useful.

Alright, time to raise this thread from the dead.  FFgamer86 and I are slowly starting to work on a single-segment route of this game.  Unfortunately, most of our exchanges have been during streaming, random one-liner emails, etc.  I really want to change that and get some things recorded on this thread.  So, this post is probably going to be a terrible random mishmash of things, but I'm sure FFgamer86 and others can improve things as we go along.

First off, the most important thing in this game -- bloody cute things you can do (yeah, totally unimportant for a speedrun, but it's what makes this game so cool):
- Sipping tea by the sea
- Riding the mine cart in circles (can you trigger another chocobo to join you somehow?)
- Swinging on the swing
- Riding the seesaw with another chocobo
- Going down a slide
- Swimming in circles in the pond
- Snuggling in bed (cuteness times 1000, here)

Yeah, okay, that's out of my system.  Now, let's talk speedrun.

At a high level, there are still a few overall route ideas we're thinking of.  One important fact is that once you make it to GotF 11F (11th floor of Guardian of the Flame), you can abuse the miniboss teleporter to make a bunch of experience, gold (by selling magicite if you get teleported to the moogle instead), and even some JP.  Our current thinking is that abusing miniboss teleporters on floors that you can quickly return to (GotF 11F, GotW 21F, ...?) will be essential to a single-segment.  With that in mind, the two overall ideas we're battling between are:

- White Mage all the way.  Level up your chocobo in GotF 11F and Dia the heck out of everything.  Pretty overpowered, good healing, self-protection (Shell / Protect); or,
- All on GotF 11F: get Black Mage to Lv.2 (not a necessary part of the route, per se, and could be skipped with reliable moogle-stealing strats), use Sleep to reliably steal Thief's Memories, get Thief to lv.3, and avoid all enemies except minibosses that can be abused for quick levels.  Maybe has the potential to be faster?

There was also some discussion about Dark Knight lv.7 being overpowered against bosses, but I can't remember the details, and I don't think we've yet discussed how a route of that could be accomplished.

Alternately, can we buy Sight[] from Charlotte before we complete her memories and get the best of both the White Mage and Thief ideas?  (FFgamer86 and I both did casual playthroughs while we were planning, and neither of us thought to check on this, heh -- note: this needs to be checked; alternately, if we need to do her memories to buy Sight[], would doing her memories be worth it in order to get Sight[] in conjunction with a White Mage?)

Some totally random notes about individual dungeons, but I'm just trying to get everything about our discussions into this thread:
- Kicking potions rocks against undead bosses.
- Another possible levelling opportunity just after Ifrit (faster?): GotF 16F-18F, you can only fight Demons and Fire Dragons.  Demons give 45 XP, 5-10 JP and can drop ethers.  Fire Dragons give 50 XP, 16-19 JP, and can drop hi-potions.  Gold stuff can also be found once you get to 11F (sell / fuse).
- Blindness Talons can be acquired early; and, while not super-effective, they could save your life in an SS.
- Meddit's memories are optional, but you could acquire a bundle of damage potions to kick at bosses (without even bothering to complete his memories, unless we want to buy his stuff).
- Magic Urns in GotW give a disproportionately high amount of XP.
- Anyone that can use Shell (either natively or from a book) then just physically wail on Leviathan should be able to take him out well.
- Shirma's memories at the beginning of Chapter 4 are going to be a stumbling block, because everything is so much faster than you; still a sticking point.
- We've only so-far found the Mini-Cactuar that gives XP and JP in amazing bundles on Chocobo 90F, so he's probably not useful.

UraniumAnchor

2012-06-24 11:50:25 am

Not a walrus

Quote from Poxnor:

First off, the most important thing in this game -- bloody cute things you can do (yeah, totally unimportant for a speedrun, but it's what makes this game so cool):

How the hell did you forget butt fishing?!

FFgamer86

Edit history:

FFgamer86: 2012-06-24 05:09:55 pm

2012-06-24 04:43:34 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

Also, right now me and poxnor are working on a spreadsheet that I think will be highly useful to those speedrunning and to those just casually playing. Once we get it up and working, we can post a link for everyone to check out.

But as poxnor said, the most important thing I want to know right now is if we can buy sight[] from Charlotte before or after doing her memories. If were able to buy without having to do her memories, then we can most likely get rid of any thief and scholar ideas.

EDIT: I found some japanese videos of this game but can't really tell if any are speedruns are just random videos or lets plays. Here is a link, maybe others can figure it out http://www.google.co.jp/#q=%E3%83%81%E3%83%A7%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9C%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%8D%E6%80%9D%E8%AD%B0%E3%81%AA%E3%83%80%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3wii%E3%81%AE&hl=ja&tbm=vid&prmd=imvns&source=lnt&tbs=dur:l&sa=X&ei=J4DnT7zbEpSc8gS8rty_AQ&ved=0CCQQpwUoAw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7c9a9c12f8d47836&biw=1600&bih=775

Also, right now me and poxnor are working on a spreadsheet that I think will be highly useful to those speedrunning and to those just casually playing. Once we get it up and working, we can post a link for everyone to check out.

But as poxnor said, the most important thing I want to know right now is if we can buy sight[] from Charlotte before or after doing her memories. If were able to buy without having to do her memories, then we can most likely get rid of any thief and scholar ideas.

EDIT:  I found some japanese videos of this game but can't really tell if any are speedruns are just random videos or lets plays. Here is a link, maybe others can figure it out http://www.google.co.jp/#q=%E3%83%81%E3%83%A7%E3%82%B3%E3%83%9C%E3%81%AE%E4%B8%8D%E6%80%9D%E8%AD%B0%E3%81%AA%E3%83%80%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3wii%E3%81%AE&hl=ja&tbm=vid&prmd=imvns&source=lnt&tbs=dur:l&sa=X&ei=J4DnT7zbEpSc8gS8rty_AQ&ved=0CCQQpwUoAw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7c9a9c12f8d47836&biw=1600&bih=775

FFgamer86

2012-06-28 09:19:34 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

Poxnor and I have put up a document on google showing our data collecting for this game that if anyone would like to look at can. Here is a link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMwmHO-MvtydGc1aExMd2xYcjdBb2VFWHlqUTJuMlE. It hasn't been completed it yet, but Poxnor and myself are working on filling in all the blank areas that need to be filled in and whatnot. The process is a bit slow but its making steady progress.

Also we have come to an agreement, unless we missed something obvious that we want to make sure that we reach level 7 overall and level 2 white mage before getting to the 10th floor of GotFlame Dungeon. This is to make use of Ifrit Grinding with the white mage since level 7 seems to have a relatively better chance to kill ifrit safely without getting ridiculous with potion use. We still haven't come up with a good stopping point for the grinding yet, but we have agreed that whatever it is, it would be helpful if it could take us to GotWater Dungeon floor 21 so we can start grinding Shiva's.

Poxnor and I have put up a document on google showing our data collecting for this game that if anyone would like to look at can. Here is a link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgMwmHO-MvtydGc1aExMd2xYcjdBb2VFWHlqUTJuMlE.   It hasn't been completed it yet, but Poxnor and myself are working on filling in all the blank areas that need to be filled in and whatnot.  The process is a bit slow but its making steady progress.

Also we have come to an agreement, unless we missed something obvious that we want to make sure that we reach level 7 overall and level 2 white mage before getting to the 10th floor of GotFlame Dungeon.  This is to make use of Ifrit Grinding with the white mage since level 7 seems to have a relatively better chance to kill ifrit safely without getting ridiculous with potion use.  We still haven't come up with a good stopping point for the grinding yet, but we have agreed that whatever it is, it would be helpful if it could take us to GotWater Dungeon floor 21 so we can start grinding Shiva's.

Poxnor

2012-07-01 12:18:43 am

Moo! Flap! Hug!

Re: Gold Seals in an SS

After Wood equipment, the next few things rust; so, you need one Gold Seal before you upgrade from Wood (or at least by the time you hit the first dungeon with enemies that can rust; Gold Equipment drops aplenty in Meja's memories).

You can buy Coral equipment from Harry in Ch.4, and that can't rust; but, I believe the Mythril stuff you can next can. Once you reach Garnet, nothing rusts until the endgame equipment.

So, it might be worth putting a Gold Seal on your talons and saddle when you upgrade from wood and leaving it on until you reach Garnet (then you can free up the slot); meanwhile, toss one Gold Talon and one Gold Saddle in storage for the endgame stuff when you pick it up?

FFgamer86

2012-07-02 01:45:17 pm

SDA Speedruns: 1

Agree, Keep one set of Gold if you find it. Also Shiva and Mini-Cactaur give not so well exp for farming. Shiva is 400xp and 300jp and mini-cactaur gives 200xp and 300jp.

Shiva is probably best killed with 2 Holy's. I buy some fire spells from Charlotte (300 ea) to kill the ice walls if they get in the way.

On floor 20 you fight 4 elementals. The best way to win this fight is with poison[]. We need to save some poison books if we find them in previous dungeons. 4 is optimal. 3 will still make battle easy.

messenger

2013-10-08 06:50:24 pm

Alright time time for resurrection part deux! I am going to do a marathon for extra life so I figure why not use this as an excuse to knock out a couple of attempts on this. I currently have a "SS" run at around 2 hours placing me in front of the water dungeon. I am going to review this thread and see what I can't figure out / add to the docs in the coming month. Any new information is appreciated!

messenger

2013-10-09 10:00:15 pm

So my attempt tonight was cut short by a sahagin prince around floor 25 of the water dungeon. I believe I was around 2 1/2 hours. I had terrible luck with job points, not one drop from Ifrit at all. I had some awesome item drops though, 2 phoenix downs, 3 angel robes, ND a bunch of poison.

messenger

2013-10-11 01:04:58 am

My attempt tonight got up to amouri and then I got tired. I don't think getting holy to fight leviathan is practical in a single segment. I was able to beat him by just hitting him. The boss in Shirma's memories was a pain though, thankfully he is weak to light and dia does decent damage. I think I need spells to hold him and the crab in amouri's dungeon in order to shove dia at them. Although it is possible to have holy by the crab, just not very likely.

messenger

2013-10-12 02:03:58 pm

Made it up to Alexander at around the 4 1/2 hour mark. He hits for 140 with homing laser. Angel robe only last like ten or so turns and I need to hit him with holy at least 6 or so times so this is going to be tough to work out. Not to mention the arms hit for physical damage so thats no fun.

messenger

2013-10-19 10:19:53 pm

I am at the start of the light dungeon at 3 hours and 13 minutes. I had bad luck on getting a halt for the first shirma memory, but I got like 5 phoenix downs so I was able to just spam those. I am going to try to run through the light dungeon a couple times until I get a stable strategy for beating alexander. I need to do some research on what his damage is like etc. If anyone knows of some resources for that info I am all ears.

messenger

2013-10-21 08:25:46 pm

Alright I managed to complete a test run through in 7:07 at level 41. There were a couple of saves because I have I hard time getting a single chunk of time to play it and I had a couple ideas I wanted to play with at different points. I had quite a bit of luck in that I managed to get a haste drink which I decided to use on Alexander. I also happened upon happy talons and an SP collar halfway into the dark dungeon. It made zero sense to attack anything in the dark dungeon as they all did way too much damage to trade, so I think my plan going forward is to focus on upgrading saddles over talons once I make it to the dark dungeon.

messenger

Edit history:

messenger: 2013-10-30 11:28:02 pm

2013-10-30 11:27:34 pm

I managed to complete another SS run. My final save is 6:06 at level 40. I managed to luck out and get a far vision collar in the light dungeon which made the dark dungeon completely safe. I also managed to get a haste drink and save it until the final boss instead of using it on Alexander. Although I don't think a haste drink is needed it sure does make the fight go a lot quicker. I am pretty excited for the extra life marathon on Saturday. Lets play some games and heal some kids, wooooooooooooooooooooo!

messenger

Edit history:

messenger: 2014-02-09 08:27:07 pm

2014-02-09 08:26:49 pm

I have submitted a run to the queue and I think it still needs verifiers last time I checked. If you can manage to suffer through 6 hours of dungeon crawling and terrible voice acting, please sign up to verify it!

You can sign up to verify it here: https://queue.speeddemosarchive.com/queue/verificationoffer/731/

Crow!

Edit history:

Crow!: 2014-04-03 07:00:20 am

2014-04-02 07:54:43 am

What's that gemma?

Let's bring the routing discussion over here, rather than in the public verification thread. For posterity, here's messenger's most recent post:

Quote from messenger:

Thanks so much for taking the time to review my run! I completely agree about all of the lost time, especially the missed curse check at the end that lead to the church visit. A lot of my route centers around trying to mitigate a lot of the randomness. Casting status spells can fail and you can get cornered really easy, so I try to kill things in 1 turn because you typically only get 1 - 2 turns before an enemy is attacking you.

I will admit I do not value spell books very highly (except for poison vs the midboss elementals in the GotW dungeon). This is partially due to how much money they give and partially due to the fact that the effectiveness of the damage spells pales in comparison to the real thing. The spell books seem to be significantly weaker then casting spells. You can see this in action during the Croma fight, the scroll Holy does 115 whereas a cast of Holy does around 240 damage. I did make use of a couple of spell books when it made sense, but I think the money they give is more valuable then the damage they put out. Also enemies that die to poison do not give out experience.

Magicites have an incredibly long animation (like FF8 long) and are worth a lot of money so that was my thought process behind selling them.

My original route did not power level on Ifrit. I depended on getting holy before the boss on Shirma's first dungeon. That boss takes 1-2 physical damage so slugging it out with him is ill advised. That route needs to be strong enough to slug it out with Leviathan, which made an equipment upgrade necessary. Money is in short supply etc. I am pretty sure the job points in dueling rooms do not increase significantly until after the light dungeon (they are around 400 there vs 300 at Ifrit). I have found that farming Ifrit gives enough experience to get to the Light Dungeon, enough money for the entire run, and enough JP to get Holy.

Also it is mostly random on whether you get a shop or a dueling room. That is why I tend to buy pessimistically, assuming I won't get better equipment from there.

I also want to note that the portal on floor 41 of the GotD is incredibly important. A mog shop is necessary before attempting the final 10 floors, but getting a fight with Bahamut is almost certain death. I was amazed that I managed to get such luck with my escape warp. I usually have level 8 at that point, so I can just cast teleport if I run into him, but I was 5 hours into a run and I only needed one drop to get to level 8. I got incredibly unlucky in that I didn't get a drop for like 8 or 9 battles, but I would still rather be safe.

A particular PUD card will stop spawning after you get it vs constantly getting it dropped if you don't pick it up. I suppose towards the end that is not as big of a deal, but the risk of missing a drop twice makes picking up the card more favorable in general.

Again, thanks for watching and giving me something to think about!

Regarding Spell Books, I think that they act as versions of the spell that have either zero or some fixed Magic stat for the caster; those spells that deal damage seem to deal almost as much damage as the real thing in the early game, but notably less by the end. In any case, Sleep is especially good, allowing you to completely avoid unprofitable fights in many circumstances.

Also important about Spell Books is their ability to stack with each other; if you can (as a hypothetical example) survive a dungeon by entering it with Sleep [4] but 6 fewer potions, this would mean having the ability to take 5 more items out of the dungeon. This makes selling books in many cases more expensive than keeping and using them.

You're probably right regarding the magicites.

The run has no need of job level 8. Floor 41 Bahamuts can be dodged with Teleport Wings, and preparing to do so carries no cost should you wind up not needing to since you can sell the Wings at the Mog shop once you get it. Just hang on to 2 Teleport Wings over the course of the run (starting at, say, GotL), and your odds of needing to run past a Bahamut to the exit so you can escape the dungeon are only 12.5%.

This means that all job points gained past level 7 are in a sense wasted. This is why, for example, your choice to stop farming JP in time so that you obtain Holy just before Phoenix was good. This logic can be extended to each successive boss so long as the amount of extra time this boss takes to kill due to not having Holy yet doesn't exceed the amount of time spent now farming the amount of JP you would have obtained anyway by the next boss. It could be that killing Phoenix alone takes so much longer without Holy that delaying Holy doesn't pay off, I'm not sure.

Another option to consider is first farming Experience as you make it to the bottom floor of the dungeon, then escaping and farming Ifrit much faster. Bonus points if you can forge your weapon. The first few Ifrit kills are incredibly slow because Chocobo's damage is so low compared to Ifrit's defense (you're dealing like 10 damage a hit IIRC). Every point of damage will really count, as will having 4 SP.

Mini Cactuars show up in GotL, though I forget the exact floor number (and it's 50/50 whether you get it or Idra). That is probably too late for picking up Holy, but they're easy to kill and when they drop JP they drop a lot.

A list of PUD card drops can be found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/939442-final-fantasy-fables-chocobos-dungeon/faqs/56722
The important thing to note about this is that each card is dropped by only one enemy - there might be several types of Bomb enemies, but only Bomb Shades drop Delta Guard, for instance; Bombs and Grenades will not. So, for picking up a PUD card to pay off, you need to expect to fight so many more of that specific enemy that a future one is likely to drop a PUD card.

When shopping at a Mog shop, much higher priority has to go to buying Ethers than buying Potions. Apart from the Potions you need to kick to defeat undead, it is generally the case that Ethers generate 2x as much value for you as a Potion.

Do you stream? If so, drop a link!

Let's bring the routing discussion over here, rather than in the public verification thread.  For posterity, here's messenger's most recent post:

[quote="messenger"]Thanks so much for taking the time to review my run!  I completely agree about all of the lost time, especially the missed curse check at the end that lead to the church visit.  A lot of my route centers around trying to mitigate a lot of the randomness.  Casting status spells can fail and you can get cornered really easy, so I try to kill things in 1 turn because you typically only get 1 - 2 turns before an enemy is attacking you.

I will admit I do not value spell books very highly (except for poison vs the midboss elementals  in the GotW dungeon).  This is partially due to how much money they give and partially due to the fact that the effectiveness of the damage spells pales in comparison to the real thing.  The spell books seem to be significantly weaker then casting spells.  You can see this in action during the Croma fight, the scroll Holy does 115 whereas a cast of Holy does around 240 damage.  I did make use of a couple of spell books when it made sense, but I think the money they give is more valuable then the damage they put out.  Also enemies that die to poison do not give out experience.

Magicites have an incredibly long animation (like FF8 long) and are worth a lot of money so that was my thought process behind selling them.

My original route did not power level on Ifrit.  I depended on getting holy before the boss on Shirma's first dungeon.  That boss takes 1-2 physical damage so slugging it out with him is ill advised.  That route needs to be strong enough to slug it out with Leviathan, which made an equipment upgrade necessary.  Money is in short supply etc.  I am pretty sure the job points in dueling rooms do not increase significantly until after the light dungeon (they are around 400 there vs 300 at Ifrit).  I have found that farming Ifrit gives enough experience to get to the Light Dungeon, enough money for the entire run, and enough JP to get Holy.

Also it is mostly random on whether you get a shop or a dueling room.  That is why I tend to buy pessimistically, assuming I won't get better equipment from there.

I also want to note that the portal on floor 41 of the GotD is incredibly important.  A mog shop is necessary before attempting the final 10 floors, but getting a fight with Bahamut is almost certain death.  I was amazed that I managed to get such luck with my escape warp.  I usually have level 8 at that point, so I can just cast teleport if I run into him, but I was 5 hours into a run and I only needed one drop to get to level 8.  I got incredibly unlucky in that I didn't get a drop for like 8 or 9 battles, but I would still rather be safe.

A particular PUD card will stop spawning after you get it vs constantly getting it dropped if you don't pick it up.  I suppose towards the end that is not as big of a deal, but the risk of missing a drop twice makes picking up the card more favorable in general.

Again, thanks for watching and giving me something to think about![/quote]

Regarding Spell Books, I think that they act as versions of the spell that have either zero or some fixed Magic stat for the caster; those spells that deal damage seem to deal almost as much damage as the real thing in the early game, but notably less by the end.  In any case, Sleep is especially good, allowing you to completely avoid unprofitable fights in many circumstances.

Also important about Spell Books is their ability to stack with each other; if you can (as a hypothetical example) survive a dungeon by entering it with Sleep [4] but 6 fewer potions, this would mean having the ability to take 5 more items out of the dungeon.  This makes selling books in many cases more expensive than keeping and using them.

You're probably right regarding the magicites.

The run has no need of job level 8.  Floor 41 Bahamuts can be dodged with Teleport Wings, and preparing to do so carries no cost should you wind up not needing to since you can sell the Wings at the Mog shop once you get it.  Just hang on to 2 Teleport Wings over the course of the run (starting at, say, GotL), and your odds of needing to run past a Bahamut to the exit so you can escape the dungeon are only 12.5%.

This means that all job points gained past level 7 are in a sense wasted.  This is why, for example, your choice to stop farming JP in time so that you obtain Holy just before Phoenix was good.  This logic can be extended to each successive boss so long as the amount of extra time [i]this[/i] boss takes to kill due to not having Holy yet doesn't exceed the amount of time spent now farming the amount of JP you would have obtained anyway by the [i]next[/i] boss.  It could be that killing Phoenix alone takes so much longer without Holy that delaying Holy doesn't pay off, I'm not sure.

Another option to consider is first farming Experience as you make it to the bottom floor of the dungeon, then escaping and farming Ifrit much faster.  Bonus points if you can forge your weapon.  The first few Ifrit kills are incredibly slow because Chocobo's damage is so low compared to Ifrit's defense (you're dealing like 10 damage a hit IIRC).  Every point of damage will really count, as will having 4 SP.

Mini Cactuars show up in GotL, though I forget the exact floor number (and it's 50/50 whether you get it or Idra).  That is probably too late for picking up Holy, but they're easy to kill and when they drop JP they drop a lot.

A list of PUD card drops can be found here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/939442-final-fantasy-fables-chocobos-dungeon/faqs/56722
The important thing to note about this is that each card is dropped by only one enemy - there might be several types of Bomb enemies, but only Bomb Shades drop Delta Guard, for instance; Bombs and Grenades will not.  So, for picking up a PUD card to pay off, you need to expect to fight so many more of that [i]specific[/i] enemy that a future one is likely to drop a PUD card.

When shopping at a Mog shop, much higher priority has to go to buying Ethers than buying Potions.  Apart from the Potions you need to kick to defeat undead, it is generally the case that Ethers generate 2x as much value for you as a Potion.

Do you stream?  If so, drop a link!