Final Fantasy 3? (DS)

2007-08-06 11:33:54 pm

Anyway, yesterday this idea was floating around in my head for a bit, and contemplated what to do in a run of it(I don't plan to run it, but it sounds a bit interesting to me.). There is a game-breaking glitch in the NTSC version, where items can be duplicated,(Pressing Up + A simultaneously at the Item section) and if this is allowed, the entire strategy can be altered drastically to include a mostly Scholar team, as their damage done with items is double that of other characters. Otherwise, spells to physical class changing might be useful.

A Thief and a Red/While Mage are required for a few parts in the game, as well. I'm also thinking of a potential route plan, but there's nothing I can think of yet. Feel free to toss around suggestions of other things.

Thread title:

Amazing Ampharos

2007-08-07 09:43:25 am

This game is hard playing normally so speedrunning it would be especially difficult. You will have such insane boss fights if you run from every generic (you'll also need thieves to succeed at doing that). Very careful route planning will really be critical, and you'll want luck in getting job levels in general (I'm not sure what job level does for a scholar, but in general, they make a huge difference). I do agree that abusing that bug in combination with scholars is a generally good idea, but scholars are a very limited job in general so you might need to explore some other options from time to time.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2007-08-07 07:27:03 pm

2007-08-07 07:26:46 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

The item duping glitch is fine. It might be considered a separate category if it really breaks the game badly.

HeoandReo

2007-08-07 11:38:42 pm

Quote:

The item duping glitch is fine. It might be considered a separate category if it really breaks the game badly.

Yeah, it's likely seperate category worthy. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a much longer warrior-focused end party. Grin

With the glitch, the optimal party would probably be Thief/Knight, and 3 Scholars. The former could be replaced with a Scholar as needed. However, for the earlier parts, I'm thinking Thief, Red Mage, and 2 Freelancers until Fire Crystal. My reasoning is that for some reason, the Red Mage seems to have a higher Intellect stat than the other colour mages, even with thev Mythril Bracers & Rod, which is required for good item damage in the beginning, and the RMs can use both Mini and Teleport before the Scholars can. The only downside is lack of Mage Robe equippability, but that can be worked around. My reasoning for using a Thief is to be able to access various items in places that might be needed for a glitch run, (i.e. Argus Castle for Scholar stuff and Arctic Wind) and a Thief in lead is required to save money and time (buying the keys, using the keys) on Magic Keys in the Temple of Time. As for the Scholars, items have their effects doubled, both in damage and effects. By endgame, I'm relying on Chocobo's Wraths and White Musks. Tongue

Because of this, I can skip Eureka and a few other areas, saving time in the long run.

[quote]The item duping glitch is fine. It might be considered a separate category if it really breaks the game badly.[/quote]

Yeah, it's likely seperate category worthy. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a much longer warrior-focused end party.  ;D With the glitch, the optimal party would probably be Thief/Knight, and 3 Scholars. The former could be replaced with a Scholar as needed. However, for the earlier parts, I'm thinking Thief, Red Mage, and 2 Freelancers until Fire Crystal. My reasoning is that for some reason, the Red Mage seems to have a higher Intellect stat than the other colour mages, even with thev Mythril Bracers & Rod, which is required for good item damage in the beginning, and the RMs can use both Mini and Teleport before the Scholars can. The only downside is lack of Mage Robe equippability, but that can be worked around. My reasoning for using a Thief is to be able to access various items in places that might be needed for a glitch run, (i.e. Argus Castle for Scholar stuff and Arctic Wind) and a Thief in lead is required to save money and time (buying the keys, using the keys) on Magic Keys in the Temple of Time. As for the Scholars, items have their effects doubled, both in damage and effects. By endgame, I'm relying on Chocobo's Wraths and White Musks.  :P Because of this, I can skip Eureka and a few other areas, saving time in the long run.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-08-08 12:04:33 am

2007-08-08 12:03:13 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote:

This game is hard playing normally so speedrunning it would be especially difficult. You will have such insane boss fights if you run from every generic (you'll also need thieves to succeed at doing that). Very careful route planning will really be critical, and you'll want luck in getting job levels in general (I'm not sure what job level does for a scholar, but in general, they make a huge difference). I do agree that abusing that bug in combination with scholars is a generally good idea, but scholars are a very limited job in general so you might need to explore some other options from time to time.

Job levels are not based in luck. Every time you select an action other than step forward, step back, or run away, you get a certain amount of job experience. When that reaches 100, you gain a job level. For all classes except scholar, you gain 20 points per action until job level 14, then each job gains at its own rate. Scholars gain 24 points on each action no matter what.

So scholars aren't too bad of a choice, as they grow faster than any other job. However, the only effect their job level has is to make their magic attacks more powerful. Which is by no means a bad thing...

There's a really good guide for all the things you'd need to know about jobs at gameFAQs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/file/924897/46045

[quote]This game is hard playing normally so speedrunning it would be especially difficult. You will have such insane boss fights if you run from every generic (you'll also need thieves to succeed at doing that). Very careful route planning will really be critical, and you'll want luck in getting job levels in general (I'm not sure what job level does for a scholar, but in general, they make a huge difference). I do agree that abusing that bug in combination with scholars is a generally good idea, but scholars are a very limited job in general so you might need to explore some other options from time to time.[/quote]

Job levels are not based in luck.  Every time you select an action other than step forward, step back, or run away, you get a certain amount of job experience.  When that reaches 100,  you gain a job level.  For all classes except scholar, you gain 20 points per action until job level 14, then each job gains at its own rate.  Scholars gain 24 points on each action no matter what.

So scholars aren't too bad of a choice, as they grow faster than any other job.  However, the only effect their job level has is to make their magic attacks more powerful.  Which is by no means a bad thing...

There's a really good guide for all the things you'd need to know about jobs at gameFAQs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/file/924897/46045

Super_Marpgio

2007-09-02 09:06:27 pm

New

I'm new here, and I've started two runs of this game. One is using glitches, and one is not. I don't have anything to record it with (and probably never will), but I decided to try it anyway.

In my glitch-free run, I'm currently all lvl 42 at Crystal Tower, clocked at 10:49. I'm not sure if this time is good or bad, but my first playthrough ended at 40 hours. So I think I'm doing much better than a normal run, although maybe not too good for it to be considered a speedrun.

My glitch run (going with the Scholar theory) is just at the Fire Crystal, right before Hein, at 3:30. It's just a copy of my glitch-free run, but not played yet. I just want to do one at a time.

I'd like to explain some more, if anyone's interested.

(Also, I'd like some advice here: Should I go through Crystal Tower once, get all the stuff, go to Eureka etc, or just train until I can beat the game, and get all the stuff in one go? Thanks.)

HeoandReo

2007-09-03 08:40:21 pm

Your glitch run at the moment, could be improved, with some different strategies, methinks. I was around the Water Cave at that time when I attempted it some time ago. Here's my suggestions;

-Heavier reliance of items. Djinni can be killed in 2 Antarctic Winds, for example. (I'm not sure whether you did rely on them or not, but from the sounds of it, I'm guessing no.)
-I'd put in a Red Mage in the party until you get the Scholar, and maybe a little bit after. They can use Mini, and can use Shields, invaluble if you only fight with items. The rest can be Freelancers. Doesn't make too much of a difference in damage, and probably faster, since there's no need to change jobs.
-Pick up the Arctic Wind in Castle Argus. (No Thief required) Does more damage than the normal Antarctic Wind, and can defeat Medusa, Gutsco, and many other bosses easier.

I can't help much beyond that. I overwrote that game when I was at Amur.

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-09-03 11:49:55 pm

2007-09-03 10:16:30 pm

New

Since my glitch run file is actually just a copy of my glitchless run, I can explain what I did in both up to that point.

At first I was just going to do a Low Level Game, but I decided to just do a speedrun. In Altar Cave I grabbed any chests nearby and ran from all battles but the very first. I didn't go out of the way to pick up chests to the left or right IIRC, so I think that's one less AW. I went to the wellspring to recover, then battled Landturtle. All I did was attack and use one Potion. My time here was (IIRC) between 15-30 minutes.

I gathered Arc, Refia, and Ingus without gaining any levels. Thankfully, because I ran from the battles, everyone has even experience. No one trained more than the other, so everything is nicely balanced. I can't really remember the details, but here's what I did:
-Beat Griffon at level ~5; got Wightslayer.
-Got all treasures in Sasune Castle, including Blizzard.
-Went to the northwest house in Ur with treasures.
-Went back to Altar Cave and got all treasures on first floor.
-Went in the Sealed Cave, got the Potion in the south, and exited. Got up two levels here.
-Went through the rest of Sealed Cave, got all treasures.

I didn't use AW on the Djinn battle because I was saving them for Salamander. He did go down fast since Wightslayer did ~70 and Blizzard did ~100 damage each turn. I was all level 6, and exactly 1 hour in.

I went to Kazus and got some Mithril equipment. I bought Fire and Blizzard. I went to Canaan and got Thunder and Cid's treasures. Then I went up Dragon's Peak, ran from Bahamut, and got Mini. I switched jobs to:
Luneth-Black Mage
Arc-Black Mage
Refia-White Mage
Ingus-Black Mage

Had to level up once or twice to be able to cast Mini. Then went through Tozus, into Viking's Cove. Got the -ARA spells, went to Nepto Temple. Went in, got Shell Armor, came back out. I got up a few levels there, then
went back in to battle Giant Rat. I cast all 3 -ARA spells, then one more spell. Easy. I was at (IIRC) level 11,11,11,11, and clocked at ~1:40.

Stayed as BM/BM/WM/BM (and will until the Surface World), then... I forgot whether I went to Ancient's Village or not, but... I trained in the sea by casting Thund/er/ara. Went fast. I went to Gulgan Gluch, got Toad, faught most battles in ToO, and battled Medusa. I just cast all the -ARA spells on her, used Cure/Cura, and then just kept casting spells until she died. Not too hard, and I was at lvl 13,13,13,13 at 2:24.

Then I went to Dwarven Hollows, and on one trip, beat Gutsco. Getting there was hard, and Gutsco was a little tough. Probably trained a little on the sea, but not too often. I was lvl 14 or 15 when I beat him. I just cast -ARA, and used up a Heavenly Wrath that finished him.

After that I went to Cave of Flames, ran from every battle, and got to Salamander. Everyone had Blizzara (got it from Ancient's Village, but I'm sure I went there before Salamander, not before Medusa.), and when they ran out, Salamander used Flame Breath. Almost dead, I used an Antarctic Wind to finish him off. Really hard, considering I was just at level 16, in just 3:30. At that time everyone had about 310 HP.

And that sums up the first half. After that I copied my file to save it for a glitch-abusing run, as it wouldn't matter until I got the Scholar job anyway. And fortunately I didn't need to rebattle a boss. I didn't even die from a boss until Goldor!

So, with that said, I'm still not sure whether this is good time or not. Comparing it to another playthrough I did, at 4:24 I was at level 15 and only at ToO.

So yeah, I could've used at least 1 AW on Djinn, but I didn't know if I would need them for Salamander or not. I wasn't sure about a Red Mage since he's only good before the Surface World, when more jobs come in. ~~And since I was doing a glitchless run, I didn't want to abuse items until I got Scholar.~~
EDIT: Oh wait, now I understand... Duplicate AW and easily beat the bosses before Scholar. Yeah that would work, but it would just save between 30-60 minutes. I'll just continue with what I have, since I can't record it anyway.

Since my glitch run file is actually just a copy of my glitchless run, I can explain what I did in both up to that point.

At first I was just going to do a Low Level Game, but I decided to just do a speedrun. In Altar Cave I grabbed any chests nearby and ran from all battles but the very first. I didn't go out of the way to pick up chests to the left or right IIRC, so I think that's one less AW. I went to the wellspring to recover, then battled Landturtle. All I did was attack and use one Potion. My time here was (IIRC) between 15-30 minutes.

I gathered Arc, Refia, and Ingus without gaining any levels. Thankfully, because I ran from the battles, everyone has even experience. No one trained more than the other, so everything is nicely balanced. I can't really remember the details, but here's what I did:
-Beat Griffon at level ~5; got Wightslayer.
-Got all treasures in Sasune Castle, including Blizzard.
-Went to the northwest house in Ur with treasures.
-Went back to Altar Cave and got all treasures on first floor.
-Went in the Sealed Cave, got the Potion in the south, and exited. Got up two levels here.
-Went through the rest of Sealed Cave, got all treasures.

I didn't use AW on the Djinn battle because I was saving them for Salamander. He did go down fast since Wightslayer did ~70 and Blizzard did ~100 damage each turn. I was all level 6, and exactly 1 hour in.

I went to Kazus and got some Mithril equipment. I bought Fire and Blizzard. I went to Canaan and got Thunder and Cid's treasures. Then I went up Dragon's Peak, ran from Bahamut, and got Mini. I switched jobs to:
Luneth-Black Mage
Arc-Black Mage
Refia-White Mage
Ingus-Black Mage

Had to level up once or twice to be able to cast Mini. Then went through Tozus, into Viking's Cove. Got the -ARA spells, went to Nepto Temple. Went in, got Shell Armor, came back out. I got up a few levels there, then
went back in to battle Giant Rat. I cast all 3 -ARA spells, then one more spell. Easy. I was at (IIRC) level 11,11,11,11, and clocked at ~1:40.

Stayed as BM/BM/WM/BM (and will until the Surface World), then... I forgot whether I went to Ancient's Village or not, but... I trained in the sea by casting Thund/er/ara. Went fast. I went to Gulgan Gluch, got Toad, faught most battles in ToO, and battled Medusa. I just cast all the -ARA spells on her, used Cure/Cura, and then just kept casting spells until she died. Not too hard, and I was at lvl 13,13,13,13 at 2:24.

Then I went to Dwarven Hollows, and on one trip, beat Gutsco. Getting there was hard, and Gutsco was a little tough. Probably trained a little on the sea, but not too often. I was lvl 14 or 15 when I beat him. I just cast -ARA, and used up a Heavenly Wrath that finished him.

After that I went to Cave of Flames, ran from every battle, and got to Salamander. Everyone had Blizzara (got it from Ancient's Village, but I'm sure I went there before Salamander, not before Medusa.), and when they ran out, Salamander used Flame Breath. Almost dead, I used an Antarctic Wind to finish him off. Really hard, considering I was just at level 16, in just 3:30. At that time everyone had about 310 HP.

And that sums up the first half. After that I copied my file to save it for a glitch-abusing run, as it wouldn't matter until I got the Scholar job anyway. And fortunately I didn't need to rebattle a boss. I didn't even die from a boss until Goldor!

So, with that said, I'm still not sure whether this is good time or not. Comparing it to another playthrough I did, at 4:24 I was at level 15 and only at ToO.

So yeah, I could've used at least 1 AW on Djinn, but I didn't know if I would need them for Salamander or not. I wasn't sure about a Red Mage since he's only good before the Surface World, when more jobs come in.[s] And since I was doing a glitchless run, I didn't want to abuse items until I got Scholar.[/s]
EDIT: Oh wait, now I understand... Duplicate AW and easily beat the bosses before Scholar. Yeah that would work, but it would just save between 30-60 minutes. I'll just continue with what I have, since I can't record it anyway.

ShadowLaguna

2007-09-05 09:39:54 am

THE GAME!!

Have we figured out a way of DS recording yet in SDA quality?

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-09-05 07:48:42 pm

2007-09-05 07:48:31 pm

New

Quote:

Have we figured out a way of DS recording yet in SDA quality?

Found this on the 3rd post of M&L: PiT topic:

http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=other;action=display;num=1143058222

ShadowLaguna

2007-09-06 11:59:42 pm

THE GAME!!

Oh.

XCabooseO

2007-11-05 01:24:14 am

"Wait... what???"

I was considering doing this before, and to prepare for it played through the games a couple times and got sick of it... So I stopped, but I think you should do this with the item glitch because you should hit around 4:30 with a REALLY good segmented run.

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-11-10 05:58:50 am

2007-11-10 01:05:42 am

New

Actually, I just recently got back into speedrunning this. I haven't continued with my glitchless run, and now I've been trying to speedrun with the item glitch. Here's my progress: (Also, this was a while back, so it may not be too accurate.. I'm going by my memory here.)

I went through Altar Cave, only picking up the first few chests and the AW. I duped it about 20 times and beat Landturtle in one hit.

Then I picked up the others, got the airship and flew to the Sealed Cave. I was very impressed with the results. I managed to, by fighting everything, get them to level 6 or so by the end. Djinn was pathetic as usual. The AWs really made a difference. About now I'd saved about 20 minutes.

Next of course was the "Mini" segment. It was pretty fast this time. I had to level up enough times to use Mini, though. I beat the Rat at about level 9, I think. Very easy with AWs. I had saved about 40 minutes now.

I pretty much rushed these next dungeons. Got Toad, went straight through ToO. I think I used thieves to flee most of the time, or at least that's what I'll be doing from now on. ToO was easy, same with Medusa, especially with the new AW. I think it only took 1 or 2 hits to beat her at level 10.

Next was the "Dwarf" segment. Definitely faster this time. Went through the dungeon fast, beat Gutsco, went back out via Teleport (I had to go back to Ancient's Village to buy it, I remember. That was a setback). Then I rushed through Cave of Flames and beat Salamander. After that I finally went to Hein.

At Castle Hein I thought I needed to level up, but I did it at a pretty low level: 13. This is where the strategy changes. Two scholars, one white mage, one knight. Probably the best choice for boss battles now on.

Then I had to train up to level 16 to take down Kraken. He would OHKO my team otherwise. But, what's wierd is, he didn't use his Blizzara spell on all of us this time, just on Arc (who died at the end of battle, oh well). So it may be possible at 15. Any less and it would just be a matter of luck trying to get him not to cast Blizzara. I used the same party as before.

So, now, I'm at 3:19:00. A lot better than before, saving 2 entire hours. But, here's the hard part: Saronia. Garuda is way too powerful to beat at such a low level. What I'm wonderinng is, what is the minimum level to beat him? The less levelling I have to do the better, but it seems near impossible. I had to level to 27 before, and that's 11 more levels away. Finding a way to beat him earlier will save at least 2 hours, if not more. Geomancers have the rare opportunity of Shadowflare, but even still I'd have to have it cast twice for Garuda to die. AWs, Shadowflare or Dragoons. I'm definitely confused on which strategy to use.

~~Also, Geomancers are the fastest way to level up in the Surface World, and Saronia. Maybe there's a better way, but Ice Storm doing ~700 damage to all enemies is pretty reasonable.~~

EDIT: Actually, when I tried that it did much less(300-400). I guess since I'm about 10 levels lower than usual it's a lot loss damage. But I did find a much better alternative: Dark Knight's Souleater. That does 600-800 damage at level 20. Very efficient for getting up levels fast. But Garuda is still a problem.

And I've noticed that Random Encounters take a lot of time from the speedrun. If there's a way to avoid them then the run's time could be shortened drastically.

Actually, I just recently got back into speedrunning this. I haven't continued with my glitchless run, and now I've been trying to speedrun with the item glitch. Here's my progress: (Also, this was a while back, so it may not be too accurate.. I'm going by my memory here.)

I went through Altar Cave, only picking up the first few chests and the AW. I duped it about 20 times and beat Landturtle in one hit.

Then I picked up the others, got the airship and flew to the Sealed Cave. I was very impressed with the results. I managed to, by fighting everything, get them to level 6 or so by the end. Djinn was pathetic as usual. The AWs really made a difference. About now I'd saved about 20 minutes.

Next of course was the "Mini" segment. It was pretty fast this time. I had to level up enough times to use Mini, though. I beat the Rat at about level 9, I think. Very easy with AWs. I had saved about 40 minutes now.

I pretty much rushed these next dungeons. Got Toad, went straight through ToO. I think I used thieves to flee most of the time, or at least that's what I'll be doing from now on. ToO was easy, same with Medusa, especially with the new AW. I think it only took 1 or 2 hits to beat her at level 10.

Next was the "Dwarf" segment. Definitely faster this time. Went through the dungeon fast, beat Gutsco, went back out via Teleport (I had to go back to Ancient's Village to buy it, I remember. That was a setback). Then I rushed through Cave of Flames and beat Salamander. After that I finally went to Hein.

At Castle Hein I thought I needed to level up, but I did it at a pretty low level: 13. This is where the strategy changes. Two scholars, one white mage, one knight. Probably the best choice for boss battles now on.

Then I had to train up to level 16 to take down Kraken. He would OHKO my team otherwise. But, what's wierd is, he didn't use his Blizzara spell on all of us this time, just on Arc (who died at the end of battle, oh well). So it may be possible at 15. Any less and it would just be a matter of luck trying to get him not to cast Blizzara. I used the same party as before.

So, now, I'm at 3:19:00.  A lot better than before, saving 2 entire hours. But, here's the hard part: Saronia. Garuda is way too powerful to beat at such a low level. What I'm wonderinng is, what is the minimum level to beat him? The less levelling I have to do the better, but it seems near impossible. I had to level to 27 before, and that's 11 more levels away. Finding a way to beat him earlier will save at least 2 hours, if not more. Geomancers have the rare opportunity of Shadowflare, but even still I'd have to have it cast twice for Garuda to die. AWs, Shadowflare or Dragoons. I'm definitely confused on which strategy to use.

[s]Also, Geomancers are the fastest way to level up in the Surface World, and Saronia. Maybe there's a better way, but Ice Storm doing ~700 damage to all enemies is pretty reasonable.[/s]

[b]EDIT:[/b] Actually, when I tried that it did much less(300-400). I guess since I'm about 10 levels lower than usual it's a lot loss damage. But I did find a much better alternative: Dark Knight's Souleater. That does 600-800 damage at level 20. Very efficient for getting up levels fast. But Garuda is still a problem.

And I've noticed that Random Encounters take a lot of time from the speedrun. If there's a way to avoid them then the run's time could be shortened drastically.

HeoandReo

Edit history:

HeoandReo: 2007-11-10 06:05:33 pm

2007-11-10 06:03:13 pm

The Antarctic Wind from Castle Argus might be a good choice. Otherwise, leveling and careful armour selection should be your priority.

I do not recommend Dragoons regardless of level, period. Their best equipment at this time (Dragon equips, very low Magic Defense.) pretty much guarantees that they will be raped by Thunderbolt.

Geomancers might be your best answer in this case. It might take a long, long while to do so, as you have to be lucky enough not to get beaten by Thunderbolt, or that Garuda doesn't cast Thunderbolt period, (Half health gone is no good.) and that you get 2 Shadowflares in. Garuda gets 2 attacks. If you're lucky enough to get a double Shadowflare with a party of Geomancers, you should be able to work through it with only 2 characters dead at most, if Garuda just attacks. Or even just one character dead, if Garuda does his normal "Thunderbolt then kill someone daid" strategy.

Super_Marpgio

2007-11-11 09:06:32 pm

New

Whoa...I beat Garuda...at level 21, ~480 HP.

Here's what happened:

First, I tried Geomancer's Shadowflare. They didn't cast it at all, and I'm not sure if they can cast it inside with Garuda. But they can cast it outside, so I guess it may just be extremely rare. Otherwise they only did 500-700 damage.

Then I used Dark Knight's Souleater, which I thought would do tons of damage. It did: 900 at full health, 800 after Garuda hit them, and 700 if they weren't healed the previous turn. So they got me pretty far, but Garuda eventually Lightning'd them all.

So then I thought, why not go back to AWs? And guess what: IT WORKED! ~2000 damage using scholars! Wow! Garuda's attacks nearly killed my scholars, though. If I brought optimal Scholar armor they should survive at lv 20 or maybe even 19.

Oh, and my party was SC/SC/WM/SC

Time: 4:29. Now, here's my next problem:

-After getting the Nautilus's ability to submerge underwater, what should I do?

-Just level grind in the Sunken Cave until level X
-Go to Temple of Time and continue on, and go back
to Sunken Cave to level if needed
-If I do go to Temple of Time, should I run or fight the battles? Probably run, since Chimera Mages do tons of damage with Lightning

So, now I'm stuck with another problem. But hopefully I'll figure it out by the time I'm done with the next dungeon.

Whoa...I beat Garuda...at level 21, ~480 HP.

Here's what happened:

First, I tried Geomancer's Shadowflare. They didn't cast it at all, and I'm not sure if they can cast it inside with Garuda. But they can cast it outside, so I guess it may just be extremely rare. Otherwise they only did 500-700 damage.

Then I used Dark Knight's Souleater, which I thought would do tons of damage. It did: 900 at full health, 800 after Garuda hit them, and 700 if they weren't healed the previous turn. So they got me pretty far, but Garuda eventually Lightning'd them all.

So then I thought, why not go back to AWs? And guess what: IT WORKED! ~2000 damage using scholars! Wow! Garuda's attacks nearly killed my scholars, though. If I brought optimal Scholar armor they should survive at lv 20 or maybe even 19.

Oh, and my party was SC/SC/WM/SC

Time: 4:29. Now, here's my next problem:

-After getting the Nautilus's ability to submerge underwater, what should I do?

-Just level grind in the Sunken Cave until level X
-Go to Temple of Time and continue on, and go back
to Sunken Cave to level if needed
-If I do go to Temple of Time, should I run or fight the battles? Probably run, since Chimera Mages do tons of damage with Lightning

So, now I'm stuck with another problem. But hopefully I'll figure it out by the time I'm done with the next dungeon.

RaneofSOTN

2007-11-12 05:43:04 am

I want off the ride....

Honestly I just finished beating this game ONCE; and i beat garuda at like 25 (i didn't grind much) as for what you should do. Is probably grind a few levels of monk for hps; maybe 2-4 (cause that should be quick, only took me a min a level at like 30); then go for the circle cave/doga. As for the Temple of Time, I didn't find the mage's with their thunder that hard as they dont do it that often. If you have to; take a thief in and run from those. Thats not as bad of an area as you'd expect.

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-11-12 06:16:04 am

2007-11-12 06:15:08 am

New

Well actually I just beat both Cave of the Circle and Ancient Cave earlier today(I'm too excited to put this game down!). So now I have the Invincible and ready to go get the Fang of Earth, at just levels 21/22 (Arc and Ingus both died in different battles so they have less experience). I did make a backup before Ancient Cave (Cave of the Circle only took 5 minutes). So now I was wondering whether or not I should go level grinding for a bit or not.

But, yeah, I guess I should go level with Monks now. I'm a little afraid that Hecatoncheir may be too powerful, so I should grind now. We'll see what happens next tomorrow.

And at Sunken Cave, ~3500 experience a battle when that's as much as you need really makes levelling fast.

RaneofSOTN

2007-11-12 09:14:59 am

I want off the ride....

Hecatonier is a push over, I'm hoping you got the sword with protect on it right? I mean; worst comes to worst, Use that and have a viking in the party; get the viking to provoke each turn and the hecatonier WILL attack him (I used this stratgey made him a push over); this doesn't work on titan though... It works for every person on a turn when they aren't using magic. So if you are really having a problem take in a viking protect him then slam with spells as he provokes. shouldn't be horribly hard.

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-11-12 10:43:21 pm

2007-11-12 10:35:03 pm

New

That sounds like a good strategy to beating him. But I've encountered another problem:

Okay, so I went to go level grinding in Sunken Cave. I then realized that AWs are practically useless on water enemies. So I tried Zeus's Rage, and that didn't do much better. So, I decided to see if a mage might have better VIT than a Monk, so I could cast Thundaga. Well, it turns out Knights have better VIT than Monks.

Now, for Knights, I'll need lots of armor. And I'm nearly broke now. So I need to dupe my most expensive item, which in this case is...
...A Black Hole.
Of the many items in the game, this one was just randomly dropped by some monsters in Saronia. This sells for 2000 Gil, 1250 more than AWs do. I got so lucky; I'll be done in half the time. A knight's armor requires 98,000 total. Now, if I have four Knights (and dual shields) then it comes to... nearly 400,000 Gil.

So I'll have to dupe the Black Hole 200 times (or 198, taking two battles). So once I have that done...

Heavenly Wrath. This is the only way for me to level efficiently in the Sunken Cave. So I'll need to search for one of those somewhere, and then dupe it. After that I'll be all set to finally level grind... to what level?

Maybe I'll level to 30, save, see if I can beat Hecatoncheir, if not then reset and keep levelling? Or should I try and stay at the lowest possible level? I'm just gonna have a backup file before all this just incase it messes the run up.

So, yeah, the Viking strategy sounds like it's the best option, especially if it stops Quake from killing the team.

EDIT: Oh, and the sword... It's the Defense, right? I've barely opened any treasure chests in the dungeons, so I probably missed it. I think it might be in Ancient Cave, so I'll check there first.

That sounds like a good strategy to beating him. But I've encountered another problem:

Okay, so I went to go level grinding in Sunken Cave. I then realized that AWs are practically useless on water enemies. So I tried Zeus's Rage, and that didn't do much better. So, I decided to see if a mage might have better VIT than a Monk, so I could cast Thundaga. Well, it turns out Knights have better VIT than Monks.

Now, for Knights, I'll need lots of armor. And I'm nearly broke now. So I need to dupe my most expensive item, which in this case is...
...A Black Hole.
Of the many items in the game, this one was just randomly dropped by some monsters in Saronia. This sells for 2000 Gil, 1250 more than AWs do. I got so lucky; I'll be done in half the time. A knight's armor requires 98,000 total. Now, if I have four Knights (and dual shields) then it comes to... nearly 400,000 Gil.

So I'll have to dupe the Black Hole 200 times (or 198, taking two battles). So once I have that done...

Heavenly Wrath. This is the only way for me to level efficiently in the Sunken Cave. So I'll need to search for one of those somewhere, and then dupe it. After that I'll be all set to finally level grind... to what level?

Maybe I'll level to 30, save, see if I can beat Hecatoncheir, if not then reset and keep levelling? Or should I try and stay at the lowest possible level? I'm just gonna have a backup file before all this just incase it messes the run up.

So, yeah, the Viking strategy sounds like it's the best option, especially if it stops Quake from killing the team.

EDIT: Oh, and the sword... It's the Defense, right? I've barely opened any treasure chests in the dungeons, so I probably missed it. I think it might be in Ancient Cave, so I'll check there first.

RaneofSOTN

Edit history:

RaneofSOTN: 2007-11-12 11:32:50 pm

2007-11-12 10:53:53 pm

I want off the ride....

Defender: Temple of Time (chest), Ancient Ruins (weapon shop).

you can get that sword. Its not so bad (90 atk) but its great cause you can use it to cast protect infinitely. And if you NEED to be level 30 to take on Hecatonier thats kinda bad. I took him on normally at about lvl 33 or so; I would say probably try to quick grind to 25 or so. I think the lowest level final boss kill was like 27-28 (probably a lot of manipulation).

(This is just a trial run right?; if so, go find out where the defender is. This sword should make your life easier);

Hecatonier; I got to NOT use quake usin the viking but titan was different; he didn't agree the same way.

EDIT: Now i'm just thinking ahead; but Have you gotten a shuriken yet? I dont know if you went to an optional area (was looking up guides) But if you can get a Shuriken early they ahve to sell for a pretty penny (buy in eureka for like 65500); and also If you CAN dupe shurikens are you going to go Ninja's? Or just one ninja?

I know it sounds like a wierd question but its a good one honestly. As Throw -> Shuriken does at least like 9200 damage (most likely to do 9999) on almost everything. if this is dupeable this might make everything easier just based on the fact you KNOW your gonna go consistant damage. Though also White and Black husks are very good damaging items as well (dont know how much your scholars do) So I dont know if your gonna keep that way or if you might sub in one ninja or something else; Just thought i'd ask.

Defender:        Temple of Time (chest), Ancient Ruins (weapon shop).

you can get that sword. Its not so bad (90 atk) but its great cause you can use it to cast protect infinitely. And if you NEED to be level 30 to take on Hecatonier thats kinda bad. I took him on normally at about lvl 33 or so; I would say probably try to quick grind to 25 or so. I think the lowest level final boss kill was like 27-28 (probably a lot of manipulation).

(This is just a trial run right?; if so, go find out where the defender is. This sword should make your life easier);

Hecatonier; I got to NOT use quake usin the viking but titan was different; he didn't agree the same way.

EDIT: Now i'm just thinking ahead; but Have you gotten a shuriken yet? I dont know if you went to an optional area (was looking up guides) But if you can get a Shuriken early they ahve to sell for a pretty penny (buy in eureka for like 65500); and also If you CAN dupe shurikens are you going to go Ninja's? Or just one ninja?

I know it sounds like a wierd question but its a good one honestly. As Throw -> Shuriken does at least like 9200 damage (most likely to do 9999) on almost everything. if this is dupeable this might make everything easier just based on the fact you KNOW your gonna go consistant damage. Though also White and Black husks are very good damaging items as well (dont know how much your scholars do) So I dont know if your gonna keep that way or if you might sub in one ninja or something else; Just thought i'd ask.

Super_Marpgio

Edit history:

Super_Marpgio: 2007-11-13 12:07:36 am

2007-11-12 11:56:19 pm

New

Oh, yeah, Defender. I was close Tongue

And I always confuse Ancient Ruins with Cave because most of the dungeons in this game ARE caves, heh.

Anyway...

Yeah, I heard that the final boss was beaten at a pretty low level. Not really sure how far I should level, but I think that this is what will happen: If I grind, go beat Hectaonchier, then come back only to find that I have to do more grinding, it uses more time than just staying and grinding longer. So really I should probably determine what level I need to be at endgame so I can just grind from now up until then.

Yes, just a practice run. I don't really have any equipment to record this, but I figure that if I really want to try and run it I should. And even so, someone else who can record might look at my progress and use it for their run, making it much easier for everyone.

Shurikens are un-dupeable, because they can only be used by Ninjas. But that got me thinking... What if, when I use "Throw", I do the item glitch? Would it keep my single Shuriken (From Gysahl's Magic Key shop) so I can use it infinitely? If so, then this will save a TON of time. I may need 99 Shurkiens for the World of Darkness if Ninjas are the way to go.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention I just hit the 5-hour mark here. Cave of the Circle, Temple of Time, and Ancient Ruins only took 30 minutes. Garuda took most of the last hour, but I think I went sloppy on the Goldor battle this time around. Since this isn't exactly final I'm not too worried, as this will give me a basic guideline to follow next time.

Oh, yeah, Defender. I was close  :P
And I always confuse Ancient Ruins with Cave because most of the dungeons in this game ARE caves, heh.

Anyway...
 
Yeah, I heard that the final boss was beaten at a pretty low level. Not really sure how far I should level, but I think that this is what will happen: If I grind, go beat Hectaonchier, then come back only to find that I have to do more grinding, it uses more time than just staying and grinding longer. So really I should probably determine what level I need to be at endgame so I can just grind from now up until then. 
 
Yes, just a practice run. I don't really have any equipment to record this, but I figure that if I really want to try and run it I should. And even so, someone else who can record might look at my progress and use it for their run, making it much easier for everyone.

Shurikens are un-dupeable, because they can only be used by Ninjas. But that got me thinking... What if, when I use "Throw", I do the item glitch? Would it keep my single Shuriken (From Gysahl's Magic Key shop) so I can use it infinitely? If so, then this will save a TON of time. I may need 99 Shurkiens for the World of Darkness if Ninjas are the way to go.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention I just hit the 5-hour mark here. Cave of the Circle, Temple of Time, and Ancient Ruins only took 30 minutes. Garuda took most of the last hour, but I think I went sloppy on the Goldor battle this time around. Since this isn't exactly final I'm not too worried, as this will give me a basic guideline to follow next time.

GoldFibre

2008-03-05 01:11:45 pm

I saw your thread and decided to register just to post a glitch I've found in this game that could be useful.

I was able to jump over mountains with the fast airship - I think you get it after the dragoon segment? The place where I managed to perform this (accidentally) was in the northwest corner of the map, which is not a very useful place. But if you could jump the mountains around the final tower before you are supposed to, you could shave off quite a lot of time.

To perform this I ran the airship against a diagonal portion of the mountains, and just popped out on the other side. I've been trying for a few minutes now, but haven't been able to replicate it. Maybe you can figure out the trick?

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2008-03-05 03:17:10 pm

2008-03-05 03:16:46 pm

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?u=http%3A%2F%2Fultimagarden.net%2Freport%2Fdominator_ff3fc_rta.txt&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

^^^ That is for the Single-Segmented run at Ultima Garden (which is, strangely, over 3 hours faster than the segmented run). Not very well translated, mind, but it should give some insight.

GoldFibre

2008-03-08 06:53:08 am

It looks like Super_Marpgio isn't working on this run anymore, (Correct me if I'm wrong.) so I may take over this one.

I played with a bit of a different strategy and managed to get 3:25 after beating Garuda. If I'm reading right, Super_Marpgio has a time of 4:29 here.

Still ironing out a late game strategy, but I think this could be a decent game to run single segment. All my segments so far were done in one try except 1 death against Garuda, so SS is definitely possible.

Fragmaster01

2008-03-08 02:07:25 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Problem with SS is that from Garuda on, the bosses start getting very luck based in their attacks(3 per round, on some). Thus, the point of segmenting isn't so much to minimize encounters or prevent fatigue from staring at a DS for 5 hours, as much as preventing an unavoidable TPK.
From my experience playing them, I think the NES version would be better for speedrunning, as the endgame bosses aren't quite so luck based, and don't need a very high level. However, people would probably prefer watching a DS run, simply because it'd be in English.