Eternal Ring (PS2)

2013-12-12 11:46:05 pm

I know in the water temple, its the first plant you come across AFTER you get the fire ring (the one with the crab as it's side mob) that usually drops a fire gem and a mana ore. vs the last plant who only drops a feather gem. But yeah I've been noticing the same things you were, how some of the monsters tend to drop certain gems. The mob drop tends to be fairly certain for each mob in each area, but the rng is wether the game drops items off the mob or not.

If you didn't look, I've re-mapped my magic ring getting which overall saves time/mana to help the run progress more smoothly. The 1st one saves mana more-so than time I feel with the grabbing behind the save point, and the other one past the first ogre there I believe is a shorter detour than the chest in poison valley. (plus you aren't being bombarded by poison the whole time)

I am still on the ropes as to whether it's worth crafting material arrow, or just saving the stones for a lvl 3 attribute gem later on in the game. Fireball probably does just fine and is a cheaper spell so I might be able to farm my golems faster, or a goblin faster (if they drop a forest gem) for the remainder of my route. Cause really the only thing i use material arrow for is faster dps on the earth golem (of which i don't think it does much) and to open the magic only doors in the lava fields.

I know in the water temple, its the first plant you come across AFTER you get the fire ring (the one with the crab as it's side mob) that usually drops a fire gem and a mana ore.  vs the last plant who only drops a feather gem.  But yeah I've been noticing the same things you were, how some of the monsters tend to drop certain gems. The mob drop tends to be fairly certain for each mob in each area, but the rng is wether the game drops items off the mob or not.

If you didn't look, I've re-mapped my magic ring getting which overall saves time/mana to help the run progress more smoothly. The 1st one saves mana more-so than time I feel with the grabbing behind the save point, and the other one past the first ogre there I believe is a shorter detour than the chest in poison valley. (plus you aren't being bombarded by poison the whole time)

I am still on the ropes as to whether it's worth crafting material arrow, or just saving the stones for a lvl 3 attribute gem later on in the game. Fireball probably does just fine and is a cheaper spell so I might be able to farm my golems faster, or a goblin faster (if they drop a forest gem) for the remainder of my route. Cause really the only thing i use material arrow for is faster dps on the earth golem (of which i don't think it does much) and to open the magic only doors in the lava fields.

BladeChild

2013-12-13 08:20:53 am

Yeah, I've recently mapped out the magic rings. I get the one at the start, the one in the worship area, the one in the Limestone Caves, and the one in the Iron Mill, next door to the moving floor that takes you to the lever room. Those four are the quickest I believe, and they're all I need, as I just overwrite the Fireball ring.

I'm not sure about Material Arrow, but Wind Cutter is a really good spell for the mobs I need to kill and is totally worth the extra 20 or so seconds required. Fireball is plain awful against the Goblins and is slower to cast. Wind Cutter can pierce enemies too, though that only has it's uses twice in the run. Keeping Fireball would only seem worth it to me if you can skip making rings all together until the Mines. But I can't see a situation where you'd get away without heal, unless we find a way to by pass the poison in the Valley.

I seem to remember M.A one shotting the mages in the Mines on your run. That seems enough to justify making it when it becomes viable to skip the mana stones below.

Yeah, I've recently mapped out the magic rings. I get the one at the start, the one in the worship area, the one in the Limestone Caves, and the one in the Iron Mill, next door to the moving floor that takes you to the lever room. Those four are the quickest I believe, and they're all I need, as I just overwrite the Fireball ring.

I'm not sure about Material Arrow, but Wind Cutter is a really good spell for the mobs I need to kill and is totally worth the extra 20 or so seconds required. Fireball is plain awful against the Goblins and is slower to cast. Wind Cutter can pierce enemies too, though that only has it's uses twice in the run. Keeping Fireball would only seem worth it to me if you can skip making rings all together until the Mines. But I can't see a situation where you'd get away without heal, unless we find a way to by pass the poison in the Valley.

I seem to remember M.A one shotting the mages in the Mines on your run. That seems enough to justify making it when it becomes viable to skip the mana stones below.

Neb

Edit history:

Neb: 2013-12-13 08:52:42 am

2013-12-13 08:51:24 am

There is a way to dodge most of the poison valley, In that you'd go through the sea cliff caves to the tree hideout, which gives you less time in the valley, but you still have to go there to get to the limestone caves. But you miss out on the 4 magic ore on the way through by doing that. And the mana gained by those far outweigh the mana spent by casting heal, which is more efficient than protect. In fact, for a wind route, I'd argue forget the protect ring entirely. It'd only be worth it in an earth run just because of the free stats it gives.

Yeah MA 2-shots the mages in the run, I'd still want to make it around the time I make upheaval maybe for the power boost. But I wouldn't need it till while I am making Upheaval as well, if fireball is a quicker kill for the golem/s that I'll need to kill, then it'd be faster to just make earth heal and go through.

Alternatively if you get a good run, I seem to recall collecting 2-3 healing grass. (I know you get 2 in the beginning on the way out of the first cave) Which could be used as an alternative to the earth heal ring, I do this in my latest run, as I didn't have rng on my side.
so you wouldn't have to spend any mana through Poison Valley at all. though you do want to make sure you have a thorn to cure it at the end. As health then becomes kinda pristine.

There is a way to dodge most of the poison valley, In that you'd go through the sea cliff caves to the tree hideout, which gives you less time in the valley, but you still have to go there to get to the limestone caves. But you miss out on the 4 magic ore on the way through by doing that. And the mana gained by those far outweigh the mana spent by casting heal, which is more efficient than protect. In fact, for a wind route, I'd argue forget the protect ring entirely. It'd only be worth it in an earth run just because of the free stats it gives.

Yeah MA 2-shots the mages in the run, I'd still want to make it around the time I make upheaval maybe for the power boost. But I wouldn't need it till while I am making Upheaval as well, if fireball is a quicker kill for the golem/s that I'll need to kill, then it'd be faster to just make earth heal and go through.

Alternatively if you get a good run, I seem to recall collecting 2-3 healing grass. (I know you get 2 in the beginning on the way out of the first cave) Which could be used as an alternative to the earth heal ring, I do this in my latest run, as I didn't have rng on my side.
so you wouldn't have to spend any mana through Poison Valley at all. though you do want to make sure you have a thorn to cure it at the end. As health then becomes kinda pristine.

BladeChild

2013-12-13 10:11:20 am

The crab to your left as you go through the first water door after the boss drops a Grass.

I've never bothered with the protect ring when I realized I didn't need to use it as a ring I could overwrite as there are easier magic rings to acquire.

It's clear to me now where the Wind route falls down - Cockatrice, as the hitbox for the damn thing is BS. Killing it with Tornado is just pure RNG. I've tried numerous methods and casting distances, but it just seems to hit when it feels like it.

I got to the Ruins on my last run and make the mistake of trying to kill the last 2 dogs for some quick lvl 4 red gems. Died, totally not worth the trouble. I'm starting to experiment with gem creation to see whether we have to rely on Wind and Fire gems alone. (the information from various sources contradicts. Is it 20 or 22 for the level 4 spells?) Making the lvl 4 spell shouldn't be too tricky I guess. I'm guaranteed a lvl 5 wind for the left, and lvl 5 red, lvl 4 white for the right. Which means I'd need to make up either 6 or 8 more gem lvls in 3 spaces, depending which information is correct. Sounds simple enough, but on some runs the RNG will be against you and you're going to have to resort to mix and matching.

The crab to your left as you go through the first water door after the boss drops a Grass.

I've never bothered with the protect ring when I realized I didn't need to use it as a ring I could overwrite as there are easier magic rings to acquire.

It's clear to me now where the Wind route falls down - Cockatrice, as the hitbox for the damn thing is BS. Killing it with Tornado is just pure RNG. I've tried numerous methods and casting distances, but it just seems to hit when it feels like it.

I got to the Ruins on my last run and make the mistake of trying to kill the last 2 dogs for some quick lvl 4 red gems. Died, totally not worth the trouble. I'm starting to experiment with gem creation to see whether we have to rely on Wind and Fire gems alone. (the information from various sources contradicts. Is it 20 or 22 for the level 4 spells?) Making the lvl 4 spell shouldn't be too tricky I guess. I'm guaranteed a lvl 5 wind for the left, and lvl 5 red, lvl 4 white for the right. Which means I'd need to make up either 6 or 8 more gem lvls in 3 spaces, depending which information is correct. Sounds simple enough, but on some runs the RNG will be against you and you're going to have to resort to mix and matching.

BladeChild

2013-12-13 11:47:21 am

Ack. So I've just learned the hard way how important mana is.

I'd reached Soulus at around 1:18, yet I had no mana left. I knew this going into Eternal Dimension, but my tactic was to kill the Captain then die intentionally on Soulus, forcing a respawn with full mp with the Sacrifice ring. Unfortunately, the Captain takes more than a full bar of MP, even with Enlighten.

Researching the final stages and mobs for mana seems a solid tactic to me. You need at least a full bar of MP and a mana crystal going into the final phase. Maybe it's just worth the hastle getting that crystal before the Water Demon.

Neb

2013-12-13 11:47:45 am

Uhh, I know for certain I get my myst using 4 of the dragon gems so 20.

For attack rings, Wind, Fire, and Light (i think) are the attack gems. And Earth, Water, Dark are the Support gems. I think you can get a good chance using one of the support gems on the right side, or just Take a tornado gem from one of the axe dudes.

I know my latest run I mix-matched for attribute, so long as you're mostly in the right area for spell, then it should be in your favor (mostly attack gems vs support gems), Like, when you kill the gargoyles, you should be able to place an earth dragon or the water dragon along with the fire and light gems But you should be able to stock up on tornado gems in the lava field before you drop into cocatrice for the extra padding.

BladeChild

2013-12-13 11:57:54 am

Lava field just doesn't seem consistent at all, think most of them drop Lava gems.

In my last run I put a lvl 4 dark on the left along with my winds and everything turned out ok. I wonder if the game takes the element with the highest level in each field to decide which ring you're getting.

I.e, Wind Dragon gem =5, yet you could put 2 lvl 4 gems of a different element with it, as Wind would still be the highest element.

Not sure, I'm burned out for today anyway. Thought I had a sub 1:25, then it all went pop Shocked

Neb

2013-12-14 12:40:18 am

I know for a fact one of them dropped dual lava/tornado, so following with the logic, finding one of those guys on your way to make vortex would be a worth kill to help cement your wind gem aquisition. as you'd have an extra wind gem to help cement the element choice on the left, and the fire gem is a decent choice for the right side to cement an attack ring choice.

Another route I'd be willing to try would be a water route, but thats more a melee route as the lvl 4 attack spell is sooo melee oriented and I don't think it would work all that well for a speedrun.

Something to try as well would be the lvl 3 light spell perhaps to speed up the final boss kill. As the last 2 bosses after Earth dragon do have the light weakness, and you can build up to it with the Dragon Gems and the 2 light gems you get off the gargoyle and captain 1.

Neb

2013-12-14 04:32:26 am

I just saw your post about running out of mana. 1:18 is an awesome time to reach soulus. I don't believe it'd be worth it for the mana crystal at the water temple. There are 2 in the Lava fields, One right by the 1st Fire/Tornado axe dude, and one to be picked up to the left by the pheonix room. I don't think that's too big a deal. Also the strat for Captain 2 is essentially the same as Captain 1, Perhaps Tornado spam before the safer Vortex on the final boss?

BladeChild

2013-12-14 04:51:02 pm

I honestly never considered Tornado on the 2nd captain. His HP is beefed 3x as much, so I have to figure it wouldn't be that great in comparison to Vortex. Tornado takes twice as long to regen as far as I can see. Going by the number of Tornados it took to kill Captain 1, it would probably take about 7 to kill him, depending on elemental bonus I suppose. That's about the same time it would take to kill him with Vortex, though it could do with testing.

Other than Wind and Earth, I don't see any viable paths. The Fire spells are mostly weak and useless, and the level 4 is essentially a slower Vortex with less power. Water has good lvl 1/2, an impractical lvl 3 and a level 4 that requires you to be close to the enemy, which would make most bosses a mare. I even wonder if you'd be able to hit the Dragon with it. Not to mention it's the most mana intensive path.

I tested Thunder on the final 2 bosses, and it was sloooooow on the Captain, and about 10 seconds slower than Vortex on Soulus. I had little Light element to support it, but that would most likely be the case in the run anyway. I've no idea about Flash, but I doubt you could make it anyway?

The 1:18 time had no saving whatsoever, so it looks better maybe because of that, and I barely made any routing mistakes other than getting lost in the library for 40 seconds.

I think I've sorted the Mana Crystal problem. As you say, there are up to 3 crystals to get in the Lava Field. Also, after the Cockatrice, one of the first two werewolves in the Ruins drop a guranteed crystal, though if you get all 3 crystals in the Lava Fields, it shouldn't be necessary.

I honestly never considered Tornado on the 2nd captain. His HP is beefed 3x as much, so I have to figure it wouldn't be that great in comparison to Vortex. Tornado takes twice as long to regen as far as I can see. Going by the number of Tornados it took to kill Captain 1, it would probably take about 7 to kill him, depending on elemental bonus I suppose. That's about the same time it would take to kill him with Vortex, though it could do with testing.

Other than Wind and Earth, I don't see any viable paths. The Fire spells are mostly weak and useless, and the level 4 is essentially a slower Vortex with less power. Water has good lvl 1/2, an impractical lvl 3 and a level 4 that requires you to be close to the enemy, which would make most bosses a mare. I even wonder if you'd be able to hit the Dragon with it. Not to mention it's the most mana intensive path.

I tested Thunder on the final 2 bosses, and it was sloooooow on the Captain, and about 10 seconds slower than Vortex on Soulus. I had little Light element to support it, but that would most likely be the case in the run anyway. I've no idea about Flash, but I doubt you could make it anyway?

The 1:18 time had no saving whatsoever, so it looks better maybe because of that, and I barely made any routing mistakes other than getting lost in the library for 40 seconds.

I think I've sorted the Mana Crystal problem. As you say, there are up to 3 crystals to get in the Lava Field. Also, after the Cockatrice, one of the first two werewolves in the Ruins drop a guranteed crystal, though if you get all 3 crystals in the Lava Fields, it shouldn't be necessary.

Neb

2013-12-14 10:58:46 pm

You would also have to take into account that All damage in spells are relative to each other. Because of the way the stats work.

I know I'm contemplating changing to Upheaval for Captain 1 for a couple hits in order to speed it up because of damage/cast time. It seemed to be the same amount of hits. Maybe just using poison to activate the poison on the boss. I've had mixed results.

But all the same, wow, with a 1:18 to soulus, that means 1:20 is possible. That'd be sweet to see. Smiley

Once we get the route down, then there's the Challenge speedrun. 100%, All rings, All swords XD. Which means we'll have to brave the secret cave >.>

BladeChild

2013-12-15 02:33:35 am

Is that how 100% would be defined, all rings, weapons and bosses? That would be tricky, especially for the lvl 5 rings. Not to mention the ATR rings haha

I'm at the stage where I'd be comfortable racing this soon. Dunno how you're fixed for that, but it'd be cool.

Neb

Edit history:

Neb: 2013-12-15 03:34:03 am

2013-12-15 03:29:51 am

Well while I did put a lot of effort into this recently, It's still on my backburner. Christmas time is soon and I'm getting a PSX so will be recording an update to the MGS runs soon. So I'm gonna be practicing that for now. Since picking up Eternal ring, all my strats on MGS have fallen well below standard XD. I'd say I'm fairly comfortable racing, though I know I still have a ton of time to save yet, as I'm far from an Ideal run for the earth route.

I did do an MGS race vs the current WR holder and used Speedrunslive.com for that. The hardest part to a race would be getting the two of us online at the same time Smiley

and setting Ideal rules of course.

I'd like to see the route you take for a wind run, so I could compare it with my splits, see which rings you pick up etc, which monsters you kill.

But my ideal thing to do would be to complete and record a run for SDA, then worry about some races Smiley

BladeChild

Edit history:

BladeChild: 2013-12-15 04:49:24 pm

BladeChild: 2013-12-15 04:46:57 pm

BladeChild: 2013-12-15 04:46:40 pm

BladeChild: 2013-12-15 04:35:30 pm

2013-12-15 04:35:19 pm

First run completed.... 1:19:49

1:20 goal already dead and buried, and the run was far from great.

Neb

Edit history:

Neb: 2013-12-16 12:23:05 am

2013-12-16 12:15:12 am

Wow, nice run all the same Smiley

I think Cockatrice is your main stopgap as when it's eyes are open it doesn't take damage. And it appears that your wind spells seem to Awaken it. The 2 body eyes. I really liked your gem management. Having seen this though I feel Earth is the superior route....Albeit the harder one, though with the loss of an attribute ring or 2, that remains to be seen. The skipping of the protect ring is a huge timesaver, but I think I would like to go something similar to your route and craft a high lvl support gem later to replace protect. I don't know if that would affect my hits-kill later in my route though. Something to test as I get further down the line.

But great stuff Smiley

only 150ish hp going into bubble boy... that's some deathwish XD But I do envy the range on Vortex....sooo soo much XD

BladeChild

Edit history:

BladeChild: 2013-12-16 09:30:35 am

2013-12-16 09:28:46 am

I just crafted that support ring on a whim. I have to wonder if it's worth the 20 seconds. If it means you kill the last 3 bosses like 4 hits earlier then maybe. If not then it might be a waste.

I kinda think the protect ring is a waste even in an earth run. That's gotta be, what, 45 seconds with the text etc? And even if Earth turns out to be more effective at bosses (which I'm unsure of. Cockatrice sucks with Tornado for sure, but Vortex can practically 2 cycle the Dragon with good RNG) , there's still the fact that route is a minute down because of the ring creation visits, unless you can get through to the Iron Works with M.A like I do with Wind Cutter, or skip the first ring creation as we discussed earlier, but that would mean some slow farming with fireball.
The only other thing to think of is a mixed build, and to hell with elemental stacking.

I'm gonna try an Earth run to get a feel for it. I'm unsure of the gem situation but it should be simple enough. Even in my run I see my fair share of earth gems.

As for my run, I really feel there's another concern, which is how slow I dispatch the gargoyles because of Tornados regen time, though I may be wasting colossal time waking them with Wind Cutter and then just using Tornado. perhaps I should just use Tornado straight off.

Your point about the low HP is a concern for earth too. Trying to hit Soulus with Mist at that HP could wind up with some pretty rage quitting run killers.

I just crafted that support ring on a whim. I have to wonder if it's worth the 20 seconds. If it means you kill the last 3 bosses like 4 hits earlier then maybe. If not then it might be a waste.

I kinda think the protect ring is a waste even in an earth run. That's gotta be, what, 45 seconds with the text etc? And even if Earth turns out to be more effective at bosses (which I'm unsure of. Cockatrice sucks with Tornado for sure, but Vortex can practically 2 cycle the Dragon with good RNG) , there's still the fact that route is a minute down because of the ring creation visits, unless you can get through to the Iron Works with M.A like I do with Wind Cutter, or skip the first ring creation as we discussed earlier, but that would mean some slow farming with fireball.
The only other thing to think of is a mixed build, and to hell with elemental stacking.

I'm gonna try an Earth run to get a feel for it. I'm unsure of the gem situation but it should be simple enough. Even in my run I see my fair share of earth gems.

As for my run, I really feel there's another concern, which is how slow I dispatch the gargoyles because of Tornados regen time, though I may be wasting colossal time waking them with Wind Cutter and then just using Tornado. perhaps I should just use Tornado straight off.

Your point about the low HP is a concern for earth too. Trying to hit Soulus with Mist at that HP could wind up with some pretty rage quitting run killers.

BladeChild

Edit history:

BladeChild: 2013-12-17 03:38:22 pm

BladeChild: 2013-12-17 01:05:13 pm

2013-12-17 12:12:51 pm

Okay, so I found something quite substantial to pretty much skip the Mines. Came about by complete accident, and as of yet Im unsure of how to replicate it, but I basically clipped through the wall by the 2nd moving platform while trying to hit rats.

edit - so unfortunately I can't seem to replicate how I got to this point. Im kinda annoyed I wasn't recording, as the exact steps I took seem to fail me. All I remember is getting stuck on the platform between the rats and the lever, and I clipped through the wall.

Neb

Edit history:

Neb: 2013-12-19 12:55:27 am

2013-12-18 10:15:55 pm

wow, You appear to be poisoned, and the rats are there....That's cool! If that is replicatable then wind is def the superior route, Alternatively if that oob can be used to skip other areas (I'm looking at you going stratight to soulus after we get to magic testing center XD) That would be a matter of finding the fastest way to vortex, then stocking up on ore from tree-village. and wam bam.

Alternatively we can keep our sword to clip through to the water temple....So many possible uses if it's replicatable

Perhaps its related to the poison and it's a form of damage boost somehow?

BladeChild

2013-12-19 09:31:22 am

I'm kinda thinking it was a damage boost from the rats, though I can't see poison having anything to do with it. If it does, then it's a pretty RNG based trick anyway.

The more I try and think back I'm thinking the platform could have something to do with it. It's worth mentioning that the further you walk OOB in complete darkness, you see no form of terrain... the only exception being the platforms, and a chest.. It's hard to explain what mechanics could possibly be related to when you're not OOB, though, and how to make sense of manipulating it. You can use the platforms in OOB and they will take you up and down etc. Perhaps if you have the Emu, I could send you the save state file and you can play around with it yourself.

And, yeah, an OOB glitch in the testing center would pretty much break half the game. Could be looking at 45-50 minutes.

The game does have a bizarre way of sensing your death. Like, when you try and drop down into the place leading to the eternal dimension, the spikes allegedly kill you. But you die before even reaching them. The same can be said when dropping off the cliffs in the final phase, You don't drop 'all the way' the game just kills you after leaping off the cliff. Whether this is something that can be abused or not, who knows. But back to wall clipping, I kinda figured it could be a thing when I saw the dogs in the ruins half disappearing into the walls.

That said, I messed around for another couple of hours yesterday and still can't replicate it. So it could be a lost cause unless somebody far more knowledgeable about this kinda stuff investigates it.

I seem to recall FROM releasing a sort of developer's pack so people could make their own King's Field games with the engine. I wonder if this would be worth looking into as additional insight, though it could just be wishful busywork.

I'm kinda thinking it was a damage boost from the rats, though I can't see poison having anything to do with it. If it does, then it's a pretty RNG based trick anyway.

The more I try and think back I'm thinking the platform could have something to do with it. It's worth mentioning that the further you walk OOB in complete darkness, you see no form of terrain... the only exception being the platforms, and a chest.. It's hard to explain what mechanics could possibly be related to when you're not OOB, though, and how to make sense of manipulating it. You can use the platforms in OOB and they will take you up and down etc. Perhaps if you have the Emu, I could send you the save state file and you can play around with it yourself.

And, yeah, an OOB glitch in the testing center would pretty much break half the game. Could be looking at 45-50 minutes.

The game does have a bizarre way of sensing your death. Like, when you try and drop down into the place leading to the eternal dimension, the spikes allegedly kill you. But you die before even reaching them. The same can be said when dropping off the cliffs in the final phase, You don't drop 'all the way' the game just kills you after leaping off the cliff. Whether this is something that can be abused or not, who knows. But back to wall clipping, I kinda figured it could be a thing when I saw the dogs in the ruins half disappearing into the walls.

That said, I messed around for another couple of hours yesterday and still can't replicate it. So it could be a lost cause unless somebody far more knowledgeable about this kinda stuff investigates it.

I seem to recall FROM releasing a sort of developer's pack so people could make their own King's Field games with the engine. I wonder if this would be worth looking into as additional insight, though it could just be wishful busywork.

BladeChild

Edit history:

BladeChild: 2013-12-20 03:43:00 pm

BladeChild: 2013-12-19 02:01:34 pm

2013-12-19 12:54:58 pm

Sorry for yet another double post, but it seems I'm on a roll of discovery atm.

Glitching aside for a moment, as I have solved the Cockatrice problem... as far as I can tell

Using Tornado with this new tactic practically makes the boss a non issue, and I think solidifies Wind's position now. Basically, whenever using it with a low element value, the Cockatrice opens its eyes. However, when you have 65 Wind or more, it keeps its eyes closed, and hence can be killed in two Tornados as opposed to about 10.

This does mean more rings have to be made. I believe I could make up the required stat by making something extra when I get Tornado at the Mill.

Edit - It seems extra rings won't be necessary either to have 65 Wind, as I've now found a way to make Vortex BEFORE the Cockatrice. This doesn't save any extra time as I will still be making 3 ring creation visits, however it saves the need to make anymore rings than the 4 I use. It will probably mean I won't get to make an extra ring for extra element boost, but I was considering ducking that anyway.

3 Tornado gems dropped by lava goblins = (12) + 3 lava gems (9) = 21. If you don't have 3 lavas for w/e reason, the Phoenix drops a lvl 5 red as a safety net. Problems may arise with the Tornado gems I suppose, but i'm sure theres other contingencies.

Another edit rather than posting -

I've had a couple of failed runs today and have figured out that missing out the bottom of the rat pit is advisable, as it saves over a minute. The better substitute for mana stones is to kill the two larger lizard things that guard the cave entrances in disposal valley ( they drop guaranteed mana, and as a bonus drop flare gems as well, saving the need to kill some mobs in worship area ) This still means having to cross the platforms with the mages, which is a mare if you go straight for the direct platform, although there is a safer route that requires two platform rides, so long as you kill a mage near one of them.

I rage quitted on my last run as I was over 2 minutes up on the first captain fight, had really good RNG, but died at the phoenix when I didn't even need to kill it. With that, plus knowing I can save about a minute+ in the library and another minute on Cockatrice, sub 1:15 is looking very doable.

Sorry for yet another double post, but it seems I'm on a roll of discovery atm.

Glitching aside for a moment, as I have solved the Cockatrice problem... as far as I can tell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AX3dairhCQ

Using Tornado with this new tactic practically makes the boss a non issue, and I think solidifies Wind's position now. Basically, whenever using it with a low element value, the Cockatrice opens its eyes. However, when you have 65 Wind or more, it keeps its eyes closed, and hence can be killed in two Tornados as opposed to about 10.

This does mean more rings have to be made. I believe I could make up the required stat by making something extra when I get Tornado at the Mill.

Edit - It seems extra rings won't be necessary either to have 65 Wind, as I've now found a way to make Vortex BEFORE the Cockatrice. This doesn't save any extra time as I will still be making 3 ring creation visits, however it saves the need to make anymore rings than the 4 I use. It will probably mean I won't get to make an extra ring for extra element boost, but I was considering ducking that anyway.

3 Tornado gems dropped by lava goblins = (12) + 3 lava gems (9) = 21. If you don't have 3 lavas for w/e reason, the Phoenix drops a lvl 5 red as a safety net. Problems may arise with the Tornado gems I suppose, but i'm sure theres other contingencies.

Another edit rather than posting -

I've had a couple of failed runs today and have figured out that missing out the bottom of the rat pit is advisable, as it saves over a minute. The better substitute for mana stones is to kill the two larger lizard things that guard the cave entrances in disposal valley ( they drop guaranteed mana, and as a bonus drop flare gems as well, saving the need to kill some mobs in worship area ) This still means having to cross the platforms with the mages, which is a mare if you go straight for the direct platform, although there is a safer route that requires two platform rides, so long as you kill a mage near one of them.

I rage quitted on my last run as I was over 2 minutes up on the first captain fight, had really good RNG, but died at the phoenix when I didn't even need to kill it. With that, plus knowing I can save about a minute+ in the library and another minute on Cockatrice, sub 1:15 is looking very doable.

BladeChild

Edit history:

BladeChild: 2013-12-22 05:22:56 pm

2013-12-22 04:05:21 pm

New PB, 1:15 dead on.

The time is mainly saved by the new strats, which are mainly missing out the bottom floor in the mines and going for broke on the platform crossing. It's tricky, but doable. You have to stay to the right and then move when they cast. Mist is the move to look out for, and it has it's own casting animation. You miss the mana stones, but that's no big deal as I've found a replacement, which has duel use - the grey lizards in disposal valley.

I've refined the gem farming. The moths I go for are easy time wise and 100% guaranteed to drop Winged gems. Tornado is absolutely guaranteed to be made.

I create Vortex before Cockatrice which basically makes that fight a 15 second joke with Tornado. Farming for it in the Lava field is tricky and more random, and will usually involv having to kill the Phoenix. ( if you have 110 HP, you can take a hit from it )

I miss Enlighten as well, as you don't need it, but wasted the half minute saved there by screwing up the key order in the lab.

That's about it. I'd be pretty surprised if there's a more optimal route without any glitches. Just a matter of tweaking it and perfecting each split. My sum of best atm is 1:13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzfy54mkb50

New PB, 1:15 dead on.

The time is mainly saved by the new strats, which are mainly missing out the bottom floor in the mines and going for broke on the platform crossing. It's tricky, but doable. You have to stay to the right and then move when they cast. Mist is the move to look out for, and it has it's own casting animation. You miss the mana stones, but that's no big deal as I've found a replacement, which has duel use - the grey lizards in disposal valley.

I've refined the gem farming.  The moths I go for are easy time wise and 100% guaranteed to drop Winged gems. Tornado is absolutely guaranteed to be made.

I create Vortex before Cockatrice which basically makes that fight a 15 second joke with Tornado. Farming for it in the Lava field is tricky and more random, and will usually involv having to kill the Phoenix. ( if you have 110 HP, you can take a hit from it )

I miss Enlighten as well, as you don't need it, but wasted the half minute saved there by screwing up the key order in the lab.

That's about it. I'd be pretty surprised if there's a more optimal route without any glitches. Just a matter of tweaking it and perfecting each split. My sum of best atm is 1:13

Miridia

2014-04-12 03:01:11 am

So I just got into speedrunning this :3 I actually like this game for some stupid reason lol. It's so bad that it has charm. xD Anyway, I'll be practicing this for a bit, then I might stream it.

BladeChild

2014-04-12 03:33:13 pm

Good luck, man, really glad to see some interest in this game. I think the charm lies in the game world myself. FROM definitely succeeded in the Souls' games because they had perfected that part of the game.

Unfortunately, I'm currently inactive with this atm, I got that 1:15 run and my disc stopped working and I never got around to importing another. I'd be willing to help out with your efforts, though. If you find any good info that me and Neb missed, keep us updated, I'd be very interested.

Miridia

2014-04-12 06:30:29 pm

Yeah man I'd really like to just sit down and have you explain your route to me sometime. Here's my twitch: www.twitch.tv/miridia5x4 I'll be streaming this tomorrow if/when you hop in the chat, I'll just switch over to Eternal Ring.

BladeChild

2014-04-13 03:09:46 pm

In all honesty, most of what I have to offer has already been stated in this thread, and I'm like 3 month rusty so my on the cuff explanations wouldn't be all that good haha. I also would like to admit there's several things that I never really got around to trialling. I know I had revamped the magic ring collection after that 1:15 run, but if you asked me right now, I'd have to re-research it. I'll be sure to check your stream tomorrow, though I am GMT, so I'm not sure when that will be for you.