Donkey Kong 64

Manocheese

2012-05-18 10:09:52 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Nice finds.

I should be able to help with the route in a few days.

Toes

2012-05-18 07:01:38 pm

looking at my current total i'm probably going to revise my crystal caves route and my gloomy galleon route. i get too many slow GBs in caves and my galleon route is just sloppy. i think my fungi forest route turned out really well, though

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2012-06-01 12:09:22 am

Manocheese: 2012-05-27 01:58:00 pm

Manocheese: 2012-05-25 10:10:18 pm

2012-05-25 10:09:30 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I updated the Strategy Wiki with your recent finds. I've been working on the route and I found some improvements and corrections.

General

Remember that because of autosaving, a reset usually won't cause you to lose any progress. When this is the case, it's better to reset than to quit from the pause menu. Quitting from the pause menu will do a manual save, which adds on any time between the last autosave and the manual save. A reset won't do this. Just remember to turn Story Skip back on after you reset. I should note a few places where it's necessary to save and quit: getting the camera and getting the first rainbow coin.

Jungle Japes

Reading over your route, I see that I had a gap in the one I posted back when Ing was working on his run. I think the way you fixed it is what I meant to do, so I only have a few suggestions:

Get the 3 DK coins in the first tunnel. DK spends 18 coins by the time you're done buying upgrades in Frantic Factory, and you've only gotten 3 rainbow coins up to that point (with my Aztec correction below).
The first time you get a rainbow coin, I think you can save and quit before Squawks' text comes up to skip it forever. I'm not totally sure, though.

Angry Aztec

I think you forgot the DK Isles part after Japes. Here's how I think it should go:

(Reset after getting key 1)
Swim to K. Lumsy, activate W1
Turn in key, reset
Get rainbow coin on path to Aztec
Activate W2, enter Aztec

As for Aztec itself, I think you've got a good route there, though you forgot "use W3" after "buy baboon blast, strong kong, shoot 2 balloons (20B)". The only improvement I have is that after getting DK's blueprint, it's faster to go through the tunnel rather than using W1.

Frantic Factory

I found quite a few improvements here, so I'll post the entire route with the changes, then summarize the changes.

Route:

(Enter with Lanky)
Get 5 B above W2, pound switch
Go to Production Room, pound Lanky's switch
Go to Storage Room, climb pipe, get 5 B
Free Chunky, get GB, pound switch
Get 1 coin and 5 B on path to Cranky
Buy Orangstand, Baboon Balloon, Trombone Tremor
Tag Diddy, buy Simian Spring
Tag DK, buy Bongo Blast, shoot balloon, buy Gorilla Grab
Tag Tiny, buy Saxophone Slam, Mini Monkey, Pony Tail Twirl
Tag Chunky, buy Triangle Trample, Hunky Chunky, Primate Punch
Get 5 B above W1, punch gate, get rainbow coin
Get 15 B and GB without pounding switch
Tag Tiny, get blueprint, exit/enter
Get 10 B on path to block room
Use Mini Monkey, get 10 B on path to shooting room
Tag Chunky, get blueprint
Tag Lanky, get bonus barrel GB
Go through R&D door, climb pole, get 2 coins
Go to R&D room, go clockwise and get 5 B on path to blueprint
Get blueprint, get 2 B, get 5 B above W2
Tag DK, shoot balloon above pit, drop to Storage Room
Enter power shed, pull lever, get 15 B and GB
Tag Diddy, go to Production Room
Go counterclockwise and get 4 B on path to Diddy's switch
Pound switch, get 4 B, get blueprint
Take shortcut, proceed to ledge with top tag barrel
Get 15 B, get GB, backtrack to top tag barrel
Tag Lanky, shoot balloon, get 25 B on narrow pipe
Get GB, drop down to the right to land in tag barrel
Tag Chunky, activate W4
Jump toward Chunky's switch, get 5 B in midair
Pound switch, use W4, get GB
Tag DK, drop down, enter Strong Kong room
Get 15 B and GB, leave, use W4
Go up platforms, get blueprint, jump down to tag barrel
Tag Tiny, get 20 B on upper conveyor belts, get GB
Jump to ledge with portal, enter portal, feed Scoff
Enter fight, exit, reenter, get key
Exit level

Changes:

I changed the small bananas around. The most significant change is getting rid of the 20 bananas in the Barrel Blast course.
I removed Lanky's piano GB. It seems like it's too slow. If it turns out to be fast enough, though, it can be readded easily. In that case, you could also add in Lanky's balloon in the piano room and take away 10 bananas elsewhere.
After getting Tiny's blueprint, I did an exit/enter instead of using W1. This eliminates the need to activate W1. Both options were very close when I timed them, but I think an exit/enter is slightly faster.
I did the Production Room in a different order and added Tiny's bonus barrel GB at the top. I also used the boss portal there instead of going back to the Storage Room.

Let me know what you think of the changes. I'll work on the other levels soon.

I updated the Strategy Wiki with your recent finds. I've been working on the route and I found some improvements and corrections.

[b]General[/b]

Remember that because of autosaving, a reset usually won't cause you to lose any progress. When this is the case, it's better to reset than to quit from the pause menu. Quitting from the pause menu will do a manual save, which adds on any time between the last autosave and the manual save. A reset won't do this. Just remember to turn Story Skip back on after you reset. I should note a few places where it's necessary to save and quit: getting the camera and getting the first rainbow coin.

[b]Jungle Japes[/b]

Reading over your route, I see that I had a gap in the one I posted back when Ing was working on his run. I think the way you fixed it is what I meant to do, so I only have a few suggestions:
[ul][li]Get the 3 DK coins in the first tunnel. DK spends 18 coins by the time you're done buying upgrades in Frantic Factory, and you've only gotten 3 rainbow coins up to that point (with my Aztec correction below).[/li]
[li]The first time you get a rainbow coin, I think you can save and quit before Squawks' text comes up to skip it forever. I'm not totally sure, though.[/li][/ul][b]Angry Aztec[/b]

I think you forgot the DK Isles part after Japes. Here's how I think it should go:

(Reset after getting key 1)
Swim to K. Lumsy, activate W1
Turn in key, reset
Get rainbow coin on path to Aztec
Activate W2, enter Aztec

As for Aztec itself, I think you've got a good route there, though you forgot "use W3" after "buy baboon blast, strong kong, shoot 2 balloons (20B)". The only improvement I have is that after getting DK's blueprint, it's faster to go through the tunnel rather than using W1.

[b]Frantic Factory[/b]

I found quite a few improvements here, so I'll post the entire route with the changes, then summarize the changes.

Route:
[spoiler]
(Enter with Lanky)
Get 5 B above W2, pound switch
Go to Production Room, pound Lanky's switch
Go to Storage Room, climb pipe, get 5 B
Free Chunky, get GB, pound switch
Get 1 coin and 5 B on path to Cranky
Buy Orangstand, Baboon Balloon, Trombone Tremor
Tag Diddy, buy Simian Spring
Tag DK, buy Bongo Blast, shoot balloon, buy Gorilla Grab
Tag Tiny, buy Saxophone Slam, Mini Monkey, Pony Tail Twirl
Tag Chunky, buy Triangle Trample, Hunky Chunky, Primate Punch
Get 5 B above W1, punch gate, get rainbow coin
Get 15 B and GB without pounding switch
Tag Tiny, get blueprint, exit/enter
Get 10 B on path to block room
Use Mini Monkey, get 10 B on path to shooting room
Tag Chunky, get blueprint
Tag Lanky, get bonus barrel GB
Go through R&D door, climb pole, get 2 coins
Go to R&D room, go clockwise and get 5 B on path to blueprint
Get blueprint, get 2 B, get 5 B above W2
Tag DK, shoot balloon above pit, drop to Storage Room
Enter power shed, pull lever, get 15 B and GB
Tag Diddy, go to Production Room
Go counterclockwise and get 4 B on path to Diddy's switch
Pound switch, get 4 B, get blueprint
Take shortcut, proceed to ledge with top tag barrel
Get 15 B, get GB, backtrack to top tag barrel
Tag Lanky, shoot balloon, get 25 B on narrow pipe
Get GB, drop down to the right to land in tag barrel
Tag Chunky, activate W4
Jump toward Chunky's switch, get 5 B in midair
Pound switch, use W4, get GB
Tag DK, drop down, enter Strong Kong room
Get 15 B and GB, leave, use W4
Go up platforms, get blueprint, jump down to tag barrel
Tag Tiny, get 20 B on upper conveyor belts, get GB
Jump to ledge with portal, enter portal, feed Scoff
Enter fight, exit, reenter, get key
Exit level[/spoiler]

Changes:
[ul][li]I changed the small bananas around. The most significant change is getting rid of the 20 bananas in the Barrel Blast course.[/li]
[li]I removed Lanky's piano GB. It seems like it's too slow. If it turns out to be fast enough, though, it can be readded easily. In that case, you could also add in Lanky's balloon in the piano room and take away 10 bananas elsewhere.[/li]
[li]After getting Tiny's blueprint, I did an exit/enter instead of using W1. This eliminates the need to activate W1. Both options were very close when I timed them, but I think an exit/enter is slightly faster.[/li]
[li]I did the Production Room in a different order and added Tiny's bonus barrel GB at the top. I also used the boss portal there instead of going back to the Storage Room.[/li][/ul]Let me know what you think of the changes. I'll work on the other levels soon.

Manocheese

2012-05-27 09:41:40 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I was working on the Caves route today and I found this trick:

I can't think of any uses, but it's good to know.

cfox7

2012-05-29 07:46:35 am

Does anyone have a formal definition of 101%? I'd like to give it a shot and see where i should start. Thanks Smiley

Manocheese

2012-05-29 04:36:13 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I think the following are all the items that count toward your percentage:

Golden Bananas
Battle Crowns
Banana fairies
Banana Medals
Keys
Nintendo Coin
Rareware Coin

However, you actually reach 101% before you collect all of these; I think the counter says 101% when you're one or two items short. This was probably not known when Joe Wiewel did his 101% run, so it was believed that the in-game definition was sufficient. When we talked about this issue earlier in the thread, I don't think we came to a conclusion about what the definition should be. My belief is that all the items in the above list should be collected. There are other cases where a counter is problematic and SDA doesn't use it. In Metroid Prime 2, you can use a glitch to collect the same item twice, which lets you get the counter to 100% without actually getting all the items. It was decided that you would have to get all the items anyway. In Ocarina of Time, there are glitches to collect the same Golden Skulltula token as many times as you want, but the rule is that you still have to get all the tokens. So, there's definitely precedent for making a different 100% definition when the in-game counter is flawed. In DK64's case, we could define 101% as collecting everything in the list above. In the same vein as the examples I gave, collecting the same Golden Banana multiple times (DK's GB in the mill in Fungi Forest) to get to 201 without collecting all the GBs would not count.

I'm pretty sure that this is the definition leftysheroes is using for his 101% run.

I think the following are all the items that count toward your percentage:
[ul][li]Golden Bananas[/li]
[li]Battle Crowns[/li]
[li]Banana fairies[/li]
[li]Banana Medals[/li]
[li]Keys[/li]
[li]Nintendo Coin[/li]
[li]Rareware Coin[/li][/ul]However, you actually reach 101% before you collect all of these; I think the counter says 101% when you're one or two items short. This was probably not known when Joe Wiewel did his 101% run, so it was believed that the in-game definition was sufficient. When we talked about this issue earlier in the thread, I don't think we came to a conclusion about what the definition should be. My belief is that all the items in the above list should be collected. There are other cases where a counter is problematic and SDA doesn't use it. In Metroid Prime 2, you can use a glitch to collect the same item twice, which lets you get the counter to 100% without actually getting all the items. It was decided that you would have to get all the items anyway. In Ocarina of Time, there are glitches to collect the same Golden Skulltula token as many times as you want, but the rule is that you still have to get all the tokens. So, there's definitely precedent for making a different 100% definition when the in-game counter is flawed. In DK64's case, we could define 101% as collecting everything in the list above. In the same vein as the examples I gave, collecting the same Golden Banana multiple times (DK's GB in the mill in Fungi Forest) to get to 201 without collecting all the GBs would not count.

I'm pretty sure that this is the definition leftysheroes is using for his 101% run.

cfox7

2012-05-29 04:51:51 pm

alright cool thanks, so just to be clear we do not have to collect every single individual color banana in each stage?

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2012-05-29 05:00:14 pm

2012-05-29 04:59:09 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Correct. You only need to get 75 with each kong so you can get the Banana Medals.

cfox7

2012-05-29 05:09:29 pm

ok good lol. thanks for the help i shall start torturing myself with this soon haha

Manocheese

2012-05-29 09:48:17 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Ceilingkick strikes again.

cfox7

2012-05-29 09:49:28 pm

wow i just did that in my 101% walkthrough, now ill have to try that lol. nice find

Bismuth

2012-05-29 09:51:09 pm

Worthless categories WR master

hey Cheese, was wondering what's the glitch to collect DK's GB multiple times in Fungi Forest. Any video somewhere? I couldn't find any Sad

Manocheese

2012-05-29 09:59:29 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote from Bismuth:

hey Cheese, was wondering what's the glitch to collect DK's GB multiple times in Fungi Forest. Any video somewhere? I couldn't find any Sad

The trick is #1 in this video:

After you do that, exit the level and reenter. The GB will reappear and you can use the trick to collect it again. You might have to do it before you turn the conveyor belt on to get the GB to reappear; in the video, I did it after turning the conveyor belt on.

cfox7

2012-05-29 10:02:26 pm

how up to date is this 101% route in this thread? i found some youtube videos of the route but it's pretty different. didn't know which i should be following

Manocheese

2012-05-29 10:09:24 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

I think there are some differences between the route in this thread and the route lefty is currently using. I don't know how different they are, though. You could send lefty a PM to find out.

cfox7

2012-05-29 10:14:37 pm

ok, ive just been following the route on sda as best as i can. there are a few typos and unclear parts for me but it'll sufice for a first run Smiley

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2012-05-29 10:19:00 pm

2012-05-29 10:18:45 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Don't forget about the Strategy Wiki. There are a lot of places in the route that say "glitch into xxx" without any further explanation, partly to keep the route compact. You can usually find the details on the wiki. You can also ask here.

cfox7

2012-05-29 10:19:47 pm

ok, most of the time it's just like "get 10 bananas" and i have no idea where to get them lol

Bismuth

2012-05-29 10:22:27 pm

Worthless categories WR master

man, this makes me want to run this game... I was going to make a 8:xx 101% using the 9:02 route but I never got to do Fungi Forest.

DK28

2012-05-30 11:23:09 am

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

I love how broken Donkey Kong: Ocarina of Time is. Pretty soon you'll be able to warp straight to K. Rool as Young DK from Jungle Japes. You guys continue to impress with your work. Just voicing support to keep it up! thumbsup

Milligramcracker

2012-06-01 07:47:50 pm

Micromanager extraordinaire

Quote:

I love how broken Donkey Kong: Ocarina of Time is. Pretty soon you'll be able to warp straight to K. Rool as Young DK from Jungle Japes. You guys continue to impress with your work. Just voicing support to keep it up! thumbsup

Seconded, mostly because the facetiousness of this post is hilarious. Anyway, who else thinks that once someone actually submits a run in 100% that it'll beat the "current" one by at least 3 hours? I'm eager to see the aggregate effect of all these little timesavers.

Toes

2012-06-03 01:39:07 am

double jump

double jumping with chunky is higher than backflipping

backflip and long jump out of a jump

farther ponytail twirl distance

found lots of stuff. the tiny one could be useful in some places

leftysheroes

2012-06-03 11:37:18 am

Quote from Toes:

double jump

double jumping with chunky is higher than backflipping

backflip and long jump out of a jump

farther ponytail twirl distance

found lots of stuff. the tiny one could be useful in some places

How exactly does that work. If it can be pulled off consistently then it could probably be used to completely skip Simian Spring. IIRC there is only one GB in the whole game that can't be reached using the moontail so the real question is whether a midair backflip with Diddy would get more height than the moontail-jump attack does.

Other possible uses.
- Getting Chunkys GB from inside the ship inside GG without smashing the barrels.
- If you can get enough height maybe skip the stupid ass Tiny Kong shooting game in Factory. I'm pretty sure the banana is always up there behind the gate. Perhaps you could glitchgrab it somehow.
- Tiny's castle crypt GB w/o orange boosting. Orange boosting isn't that hard though and it probably wouldn't be much faster.
- Chunky's musuem banana. Maybe the extra height can help you glitch through the face thing maybe.
- Possible forest timesaver with Tiny after getting her blast barrel GB inside the giant shroom.

Off the top of my head thats all that I can think of at the moment but I'm sure that there is more.
.

[quote="Toes"][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXH7_3u7z7o]double jump[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk7zW3p8nWY]double jumping with chunky is higher than backflipping[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp9eymqx4mw]backflip and long jump out of a jump[/url]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSwmwUHX9tk]farther ponytail twirl distance[/url]

found lots of stuff. the tiny one could be useful in some places[/quote]

How exactly does that work. If it can be pulled off consistently then it could probably be used to completely skip Simian Spring. IIRC there is only one GB in the whole game that can't be reached using the moontail so the real question is whether a midair backflip with Diddy would get more height than the moontail-jump attack does.

Other possible uses.
- Getting Chunkys GB from inside the ship inside GG without smashing the barrels.
- If you can get enough height maybe skip the stupid ass Tiny Kong shooting game in Factory. I'm pretty sure the banana is always up there behind the gate. Perhaps you could glitchgrab it somehow.
- Tiny's castle crypt GB w/o orange boosting. Orange boosting isn't that hard though and it probably wouldn't be much faster.
- Chunky's musuem banana. Maybe the extra height can help you glitch through the face thing maybe.
- Possible forest timesaver with Tiny after getting her blast barrel GB inside the giant shroom.

Off the top of my head thats all that I can think of at the moment but I'm sure that there is more.
.

cfox7

2012-06-04 08:29:24 am

I tried using this to skip the shooting game with Tiny in Factory but could not get enough height to grab the edge. I am currently walking through 101 again so ill make sure to try all these out as i go along and also see what else i can find.

Exchord92

2012-06-05 03:26:03 pm

Hey guys, I've come to play DK64 again for the first time in quite a while, and I'm back with some Intro Story related tricks. I've actually known about them for a long time but I never got around to recording videos. Well, until now. They might not be helpful in a speedrun, but in a broken game like DK64, everything can lead to new glitches.

So there you go, I've created a new channel for Intro Story sub-glitches:
http://www.youtube.com/user/IntroStoryGlitch