Collecting Ideas for a Kingdom Hearts Marathon?

2013-04-02 01:31:57 pm

Quote from puwexil:

Re: KH2 Final Mix, what do people think about contacting Ahirun and seeing if he'd be willing to do a Critical run (which would be a definite highlight for the marathon)? He posts on SDA forum occasionally and I've seen him stream on Twitch, so if he's willing there shouldn't be any major technical hurdles.

After thinking about it more, unless the KH marathon is going to be pretty late this year (Fall/Winter), I don't think I'm going to be able to put in the practice time to do justice to KH2FM (with SGDQ coming up and working on the 2 other speedruns I want to be able to submit this year). If there's room for NA Beginner All Worlds I can do that, or I'd be fine just bowing out since there's several more active NA version runners and IMO we shouldn't have too many versions of the same game in a marathon lineup.

I think it would be awesome to get ahirun, the only problem being commentary, since I'm not 100% if he/she actually speaks English. But, if that's not a problem, I can attempt to contact him about the marathon.

[quote="puwexil"]Re: KH2 Final Mix, what do people think about contacting Ahirun and seeing if he'd be willing to do a Critical run (which would be a definite highlight for the marathon)?  He posts on SDA forum occasionally and I've seen him stream on Twitch, so if he's willing there shouldn't be any major technical hurdles.

After thinking about it more, unless the KH marathon is going to be pretty late this year (Fall/Winter), I don't think I'm going to be able to put in the practice time to do justice to KH2FM (with SGDQ coming up and working on the 2 other speedruns I want to be able to submit this year).  If there's room for NA Beginner All Worlds I can do that, or I'd be fine just bowing out since there's several more active NA version runners and IMO we shouldn't have too many versions of the same game in a marathon lineup.[/quote]
I think it would be awesome to get ahirun, the only problem being commentary, since I'm not 100% if he/she actually speaks English. But, if that's not a problem, I can attempt to contact him about the marathon.

puwexil

2013-04-02 02:01:03 pm

Professional Second Banana

Yeah, Ahirun is from Japan and probably would rather not do live English commentary. If he's willing to play in the marathon my thought would be for him to stream on his normal channel and us to restream it on the marathon channel with English commentary by people familiar with Final Mix.

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-04-02 02:37:17 pm

I like the idea. Wink

I'll go attempt to contact him.

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-04-08 02:19:42 pm

Update - Unfortunately, he said he liked the idea but would be too busy. ;-;

LaronX

2013-04-09 11:53:46 am

I could do a BBS Terra run. Depending how far the marthon away I could do it in critical ( still learning this atm) or beginer ( already know this one).

IrregularJinny

2013-04-17 02:27:09 am

Infinite Combo

Not to push away Ahirun, but soon enough I will be able to do KH2FM in the spirit of him, Shame he has to be busy for this marathon.

But Right now I'm working out everything for KH2FM Critical Mode any% after watching his 4:22 run
so by June I might have a finished Run. But there is stuff that I don't know so if people, someday can come to my chat or just msg me that'd be cool? lots of RNG stuff which I really dont understand.

also why not have a huge KH2 Vanilla race? hahah Tongue

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-05-04 12:49:51 pm

Alright, since this thread has been a tad silent for awhile, and I REALLY want to see this happen, I've complied pretty much everyone who has offered so far. I honestly don't know myself how to run a marathon, and I can already tell it's an incredibly difficult task, but I can spearhead this idea or have other people help or take over. What we really need right now is...

-A time frame we can all agree on
-A Twitch channel we can use
-Donation incentives (I can go back through the posts and see what people have already offered)
-a Charity to donate to

BBS
Adamtimoth0 (Aqua) - 2:00:00 or (w/ Final Episode) - 2:15:00
LaronX (Terra Critical) - Huh?

Axel Ryman (All/Any Character) - Huh?

KH1
SpikeVegeta - 6:30:00
Tackify - 6:30:00

KH1FM
Tojimaru (Beginner) - 3:50:00

KH2
SpikeVegeta - 4:45:00
Bl00dyBizkitz - 4:40:00
Axel Ryman (Japanese) - 5:10:00

KH2FM
Puwexil (Beginner) - 5:00:00 and/or (Beginner All Worlds) - 6:30:00
Axel Ryman (Beginner) - 5:10:00 and/or (Critical) - 6:30:00
IrregularJinny (Critical) - Huh?

CoM
Drazerk (Sora) - 4:00:00 - 6:00:00
Ghostwheel (Sora) - 5:00:00 and/or (Riku) - 2:30:00

Re:CoM
Augora (Riku) - 3:00:00
Axel Ryman (Riku) - 2:45:00

358/2 Days
Drazerk (Beginner) - 5:00:00

Alright, since this thread has been a tad silent for awhile, and I REALLY want to see this happen, I've complied pretty much everyone who has offered so far. I honestly don't know myself how to run a marathon, and I can already tell it's an incredibly difficult task, but I can spearhead this idea or have other people help or take over. What we really need right now is...

-A time frame we can all agree on
-A Twitch channel we can use
-Donation incentives (I can go back through the posts and see what people have already offered)
-a Charity to donate to

BBS
Adamtimoth0 (Aqua) - 2:00:00 or (w/ Final Episode) - 2:15:00
LaronX (Terra Critical) - ???
Axel Ryman (All/Any Character) - ???

KH1
SpikeVegeta - 6:30:00
Tackify - 6:30:00

KH1FM
Tojimaru (Beginner) - 3:50:00

KH2
SpikeVegeta - 4:45:00
Bl00dyBizkitz - 4:40:00
Axel Ryman (Japanese) - 5:10:00

KH2FM
Puwexil (Beginner) - 5:00:00 and/or (Beginner All Worlds) - 6:30:00
Axel Ryman (Beginner) - 5:10:00 and/or (Critical) - 6:30:00
IrregularJinny (Critical) - ???

CoM
Drazerk (Sora) - 4:00:00 - 6:00:00
Ghostwheel (Sora) - 5:00:00 and/or (Riku) - 2:30:00

Re:CoM
Augora (Riku) - 3:00:00
Axel Ryman (Riku) - 2:45:00

358/2 Days
Drazerk (Beginner) - 5:00:00

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-05-04 12:52:50 pm

Also, to update my previous post, I can now do KH2FM Beginner - 4:30:00 with setup time. I can also do Data fights and Terra on Critical for donation incentives, I can have that save ready in no time.

I also had the idea of trying to do the marathon in chronological order, but I also realize that this could really conflict with people's schedules. Idk, I just want to hear your guys' thoughts since this thread has been so quiet.

spikevegeta

2013-05-04 08:04:32 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yeah, sorry I started this topic then didn't touch it for a while. I've been really busy with other stuff lately, but I'm happy to at least to talk about what we got.

My biggest issue in reading through what was offered was that I'm afraid there wouldn't be enough variety in the marathon itself. Right now, we are looking at maybe a 2 day marathon(or more if we just did like a run or two a night or something) mostly comprised of six flavors of running KH2/KH2FM. I don't think the differences between the categories and versions are enough to warrant even 3 runs. I think 2 should be the max, one for each version, and when that is factored in, I was hoping enough of the other titles would be offered, but sadly it looks like none of us have a 3DS capture device, so 358/2 days, re:coded, and DDD all seem highly unlikely.

So that leaves us with 3? runs of BBS, KH1(not even sure if we should do both versions of this, maybe just FM), 2 runs of KH2, 2 runs of COM and 2 runs of Re:Com(all 4 runs being grind heavy to say the least). I hate to be negative since I'm the one who started the thread, but I just worry if there would be enough variety in the marathon to warrant one at this point. I'm still down for whatever if a lot of people still want to come together and do it, and feel free to disagree with me.

Yeah, sorry I started this topic then didn't touch it for a while. I've been really busy with other stuff lately, but I'm happy to at least to talk about what we got.

My biggest issue in reading through what was offered was that I'm afraid there wouldn't be enough variety in the marathon itself. Right now, we are looking at maybe a 2 day marathon(or more if we just did like a run or two a night or something) mostly comprised of six flavors of running KH2/KH2FM. I don't think the differences between the categories and versions are enough to warrant even 3 runs. I think 2 should be the max, one for each version, and when that is factored in, I was hoping enough of the other titles would be offered, but sadly it looks like none of us have a 3DS capture device, so 358/2 days, re:coded, and DDD all seem highly unlikely.

So that leaves us with 3? runs of BBS, KH1(not even sure if we should do both versions of this, maybe just FM), 2 runs of KH2, 2 runs of COM and 2 runs of Re:Com(all 4 runs being grind heavy to say the least). I hate to be negative since I'm the one who started the thread, but I just worry if there would be enough variety in the marathon to warrant one at this point. I'm still down for whatever if a lot of people still want to come together and do it, and feel free to disagree with me.

puwexil

2013-05-04 11:55:10 pm

Professional Second Banana

TBH I'd also question if it would be worth trying to put on a charity marathon with the current game lineup, which I think is less about the skill of the players and more about the fact that there aren't as many KH games good/popular for live speedrunning as there are with FF and other series (I'm quite curious to see how this changes after the KH HD Remix collection is released in English).

I also agree that 1 run of KH2 and 1 run of KH2FM would be plenty, since the runs have some noticeable route/battle strat differences, but not enough to justify both Any% and All Worlds or something like that. Unless this is also true for KH1 and KH1FM, I'd only do one of them.

So with that being said, go ahead and take me off the list - I haven't done much with KH2 the past year beyond a casual fun run every few months, so I'd rather the people working on the game more actively get a chance.

Bl00dyBizkitz

Edit history:

Bl00dyBizkitz: 2013-05-05 12:38:13 am

Bl00dyBizkitz: 2013-05-05 12:37:48 am

2013-05-05 12:37:34 am

I totally get where you guys are coming from. I was never expecting 3 individual runs of KH2/KH2FM by itself. This clearly isn't on the scale or level that a Final Fantasy marathon is, for obvious reasons, but I also think that it doesn't have to be. If we did 1 run of each game (including the FMs) we'd still have a 2-3 day marathon, which I think is suitable. If we have a problem with getting each person 1 game, we could try arranging races so we can fit everyone in. It is a sucky alternative since we'd have to align people's schedules for the race, but it's probably the best option available. I'd probably just place CoM and Re:CoM in the same boat and choose 1 runner for Sora's Story and 1 runner for Riku's Story for that case. I'm not sure if having an actual charity complicates things or not, but if so, we wouldn't necessarily need a charity. It could be done just for fun.

I don't know, I could see a 2 or 3 day marathon of Kingdom Hearts being really awesome. Just my 2 cents.

Drazerk

2013-05-05 04:21:46 am

Quote from Bl00dyBizkitz:

I'd probably just place CoM and Re:CoM in the same boat and choose 1 runner for Sora's Story and 1 runner for Riku's Story for that case.

That would actually be a really big shame considering how different the games are. If you are worried about two grind heavy games you could always just do 1 of each Sora run and then a donation war between which version of riku we run (Both have similar tactics outside of duels in RE IIRC).

Also until I get a new computer you may as well take me off the list for 358/2 days. As the only runner I feel kinda bad doing that considering how much I love the game (Although Saix / Riku can go die in a special hell) and want to share it with people. However I'm more than willing to teach anyone the game if they want to pick it up for this marathon along with doing commentary for it etc etc.

puwexil

2013-05-05 08:41:44 am

Professional Second Banana

Quote from Bl00dyBizkitz:

I don't know, I could see a 2 or 3 day marathon of Kingdom Hearts being really awesome. Just my 2 cents.

I definitely agree with this - my point was just that I don't think we should try to make a charity event out of it until we can get more games/variety.

Ghostwheel

Edit history:

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 12:09:49 pm

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:51:51 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:51:34 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:50:33 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:46:29 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:40:36 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:37:37 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:37:13 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:36:10 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:34:08 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:33:28 am

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-05 11:32:28 am

2013-05-05 11:28:49 am

The artist formerly known as Qxy

Quote from Drazerk:

If you are worried about two grind heavy games you could always just do 1 of each Sora run and then a donation war between which version of riku we run (Both have similar tactics outside of duels in RE IIRC).

This. Sora runs in Re are drastically different from the GBA version, both because of the nature of the 2D to 3D transition, and because of the changes in the topology, damage, and stun time of certain attacks. I'd be hard pressed to find a boss fight that uses the same tactics, and I think it would be very interesting to show both. Sadly, it seems we still don't have a Re: Sora runner, so I'll start learning it on Proud. I'll check back with you guys next week to let you know how it's going. At the moment, I'm not practiced, but I am very familiar with the route and I have ideas on how to improve it. Plus, my general CoM intuition still carries over, so learning this shouldn't be a problem.

I've been practicing GBA Riku casually and getting sub 2:00:00 times consistently, getting close to the tight time on SDA. This mode is VERY consistent and perfect for a marathon; there's pretty much nothing that can go wrong outside of your control. With no setup time (being on the same game as something else I'm running), if it is decided that I can still run Riku, my estimate has changed to 2:00:00. Between GBA and Re:, Riku gains the ability to duel and fights Zexion (an argument in itself). Otherwise, his decks and what he is capable of remain the same. The bosses and their tactics change, some for the better and some for the worse, but it's not different enough to merit 2 Riku runs. If we had a donation war, Re: would probably win because it seems more popular anyway. But I still like the idea of a war, and if GBA wins, I'm prepared. I'm also happy to just give one of the Re: runners Riku, but I'll leave it to you guys to decide what will be better.

My estimated time for GBA Sora has gone down. On an AWFUL day, I get 3:30:00, so in a marathon, you can cap it at 4:00:00. The only reason anyone would have to mercy kill the run is if the 1 Blue doesn't show up after 3 and a half hours, something which has only ever happened to me once in my year of casual and serious running. Otherwise, the consistency of the run is at its peak.

As far as variety goes, yeah, KH just doesn't have as many games as some other franchises can boast. And if we're missing runners for the DS games, it cuts the list in half. It's to be expected because DS capture ability is a big expense (though I'd help someone route Re: coded if they felt like learning it, and Fragmaster01 and I have worked on 3D). If we could find a DS runner, that would really sell the marathon, as many people who played the main series games never got around to the nintendo handhelds. Otherwise, I don't know what to do. I really do want to see this happen though.

I have an obligation on June 15th, but outside of that, though I'll be working during the week, I can probably accommodate most schedules that let me run in the evening or on the weekend. I can even take a later shift, considering how unpopular my game is among the general public. I'd prefer to have my runs be in one block of time, but I'm not picky. I'm prepared to run for 8-10 hours if my Riku run wins and Re: Sora works out.

[quote="Drazerk"]If you are worried about two grind heavy games you could always just do 1 of each Sora run and then a donation war between which version of riku we run (Both have similar tactics outside of duels in RE IIRC).[/quote]

This. Sora runs in Re are drastically different from the GBA version, both because of the nature of the 2D to 3D transition, and because of the changes in the topology, damage, and stun time of certain attacks. I'd be hard pressed to find a boss fight that uses the same tactics, and I think it would be very interesting to show both. Sadly, it seems we still don't have a Re: Sora runner, so I'll start learning it on Proud. I'll check back with you guys next week to let you know how it's going. At the moment, I'm not practiced, but I am very familiar with the route and I have ideas on how to improve it. Plus, my general CoM intuition still carries over, so learning this shouldn't be a problem.

I've been practicing GBA Riku casually and getting sub 2:00:00 times consistently, getting close to the tight time on SDA. This mode is VERY consistent and perfect for a marathon; there's pretty much nothing that can go wrong outside of your control. With no setup time (being on the same game as something else I'm running), if it is decided that I can still run Riku, my estimate has changed to 2:00:00. Between GBA and Re:, Riku gains the ability to duel and fights Zexion (an argument in itself). Otherwise, his decks and what he is capable of remain the same. The bosses and their tactics change, some for the better and some for the worse, but it's not different enough to merit 2 Riku runs. If we had a donation war, Re: would probably win because it seems more popular anyway. But I still like the idea of a war, and if GBA wins, I'm prepared. I'm also happy to just give one of the Re: runners Riku, but I'll leave it to you guys to decide what will be better.

My estimated time for GBA Sora has gone down. On an AWFUL day, I get 3:30:00, so in a marathon, you can cap it at 4:00:00. The only reason anyone would have to mercy kill the run is if the 1 Blue doesn't show up after 3 and a half hours, something which has only ever happened to me once in my year of casual and serious running. Otherwise, the consistency of the run is at its peak.

As far as variety goes, yeah, KH just doesn't have as many games as some other franchises can boast. And if we're missing runners for the DS games, it cuts the list in half. It's to be expected because DS capture ability is a big expense (though I'd help someone route Re: coded if they felt like learning it, and Fragmaster01 and I have worked on 3D). If we could find a DS runner, that would really sell the marathon, as many people who played the main series games never got around to the nintendo handhelds. Otherwise, I don't know what to do. I really do want to see this happen though.

I have an obligation on June 15th, but outside of that, though I'll be working during the week, I can probably accommodate most schedules that let me run in the evening or on the weekend. I can even take a later shift, considering how unpopular my game is among the general public. I'd prefer to have my runs be in one block of time, but I'm not picky. I'm prepared to run for 8-10 hours if my Riku run wins and Re: Sora works out.

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-05-05 01:36:55 pm

I suppose that's what I get for pre-supposing the differences between CoM and Re:CoM. If we were to do the numbered games (KH1 and 2) as well as their Final Mixes, I suppose it would be only fair to allow that, too. I would personally recommend spacing them out though. I could see it getting boring if KH2 was directly followed by KH2FM. Maybe we could try to get 3D in there, too, if that's even remotely possible. It's the most recent game (besides KH 1.5 HD), so people might be more familiar with it and/or more interested in it.

Ghostwheel

2013-05-05 05:16:03 pm

The artist formerly known as Qxy

Perhaps it would be good to split it as such:

Day 1: KH1 + GBA CoM Sora + KH2
Day 2: Days + BBS (All stories) + (Re: or GBA) Riku CoM
Day 3: KH1FM + Re:CoM Sora + KH2FM

You could have the opening of the marathon be the main games plus CoM, and the closing be the main games plus CoM revisited. A lot of people haven't seen FM versions of games, so it can start on a nostalgic note, and end on a strong, but interesting note.

As I said, any DS or 3DS runner would be immensely helpful in filling out the schedule. With Coded, Days, and 3D, we could have 2 days worth of stuff filled in between the bookends. It looks like enough people have signed up for BBS that we can assume that will be represented, but it'll be tough to represent Days without Drazerk.

Maybe it's best to move the marathon closer to the release date of KH1.5 HD, and wait until we can get runners for a few more games. I don't know, though.

Bl00dyBizkitz

2013-05-06 03:38:17 pm

We can also build up hype for secret fights in the FM versions for donation incentives. Tongue

At this point, I think we should either take what we have and find a date to do the marathon, or hold out for more runners to attempt to add more variety. We have plenty of good ideas for donation incentives and enough runners, so I believe the quicker we move on to the next phase of making this happen the better.

Btw, if I sound like I'm being arrogant and over-stepping my bounds, I apologize and will shut up if need be. Tongue

Augora

2013-05-06 07:31:50 pm

dat jerk

I would probably have to drop out of this marathon. I haven't played Re:CoM in so long that it isn't funny TT_TT. Plus, there are a lot of Re:CoM Riku runners that over-playing that category would get very stale.

I would be up for commentary for the Re:CoM run that gets into marathon/

Ghostwheel

Edit history:

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-10 04:51:15 pm

Ghostwheel: 2013-05-10 04:39:35 pm

2013-05-10 04:37:38 pm

The artist formerly known as Qxy

Update on learning Re: Sora:

Will I be able to do it? Yes. Do I want to do it? No.

Re: Sora is much less interesting to me than GBA is for a number of reasons:

-Personally, I think the controls are clunkier, and I'm just not as used to them. For this reason, other people more familiar than I am at Re: Riku would probably be better suited to the task anyway. Everyone I've seen run Re: Riku is definitely skilled enough to do it.

-The boss battle strategies are for the most part all just abuse of of the stun time in this game and spamming firaga. Not only is this not as challenging execution-wise, but also it means there is almost no room for improvisation. Either you have the fires or you don't and either you have the nocturnes or you don't. Honestly this is the main reason, because getting through all that farming (with less nostalgic appeal for me in Re:'s case) isn't as rewarding if all I do is just nuke the boss.

-As I just alluded to, I grew up with the GBA version, but only tracked down Re: a couple of years ago. As a result, I just have more fun with the GBA version.

-Finally, I don't know as much about Re: (though I still know a lot), and I'd have some trouble filling the time with good commentary.

If the schedule needs an Re: Sora run to be more full or varied, then I'd be happy to do it. I think other people are much better suited to the task however. If it is the case that someone else can do it, or that such a run isn't needed, I'm happy to stick to the full GBA game.

Update on learning Re: Sora:

Will I be able to do it? Yes. Do I want to do it? No.

Re: Sora is much less interesting to me than GBA is for a number of reasons:

-Personally, I think the controls are clunkier, and I'm just not as used to them. For this reason, other people more familiar than I am at Re: Riku would probably be better suited to the task anyway. Everyone I've seen run Re: Riku is definitely skilled enough to do it.

-The boss battle strategies are for the most part all just abuse of of the stun time in this game and spamming firaga. Not only is this not as challenging execution-wise, but also it means there is almost no room for improvisation. Either you have the fires or you don't and either you have the nocturnes or you don't. Honestly this is the main reason, because getting through all that farming (with less nostalgic appeal for me in Re:'s case) isn't as rewarding if all I do is just nuke the boss.

-As I just alluded to, I grew up with the GBA version, but only tracked down Re: a couple of years ago.  As a result, I just have more fun with the GBA version.

-Finally, I don't know as much about Re: (though I still know a lot), and I'd have some trouble filling the time with good commentary.

If the schedule needs an Re: Sora run to be more full or varied, then I'd be happy to do it. I think other people are much better suited to the task however. If it is the case that someone else can do it, or that such a run isn't needed, I'm happy to stick to the full GBA game.