Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow - New Game Any% SS

2011-09-29 10:51:23 pm

Claimh Happy

So....I'm working on this. Not sure what else to say. I didn't see any other threads about this (and a search turned up no results), so I thought I'd make one. The current record is 18:59 by a japanese player. I'll post that if I can find the video again. It does not make use of a glitch with the Bat Soul to clip through walls, but it does get absurd luck with souls (biggest one being Minotaur's +8 strength). I'm not sure whether I can beat this, but theoretically the Bat Soul glitches give me about a minute of leeway.

Other runners of this game that I know of include DragonDarch (every category besides this one), RedShifter (has worked on this one, is focussing on New Game+), and Rainbowism (was working on this, shows up from time to time in my streams to laugh at how bad I am).

I can get to Chaos consistently. I cannot beat it consistently. Or at all, really. I spent about 7 hours on it today to get everything through the first phase of Chaos consistent. The second phase is proving to be ridiculous, though.

General notes about the route:

1) I do not go for the Bastard Sword. It does not seem to be worth it in regards to time. Only reason I can think of to go for it is for money to buy extra potions, but that would never be acceptable outside a marathon setting.

2) RedShifter and I have put extensive work into acquiring the Claimh Solais before Chaos. We have found 2 consistent methods that get the sword and then go to Chaos. Both are slower overall, and even in a marathon setting it is questionable whether this would be done.

3) Bat Clipping is used from the Arena Save to the Arena Warp, from nearby the Entrance Warp to the Keep Save, from the screen above that outside the castle walls, and then as a backup if the Chaotic Realm zip doesn't go perfectly. As stated above, this seems to be a total of ~60 seconds saved.

4) Useful souls:
Winged Skeleton: You start with this. The spear continues to hit while it's stuck in a surface. Used to kill enemies, break open Soul Containers quickly, and fight the Creaking Skeleton in most attempts.
Skeleton - If you get it before the first boss, you can kill it quicker by alternating ground-canceled attacks and bone throws. You can also use this ability to kill imps, who become significantly more annoying without the bastard sword.
Bat - Good for killing the imps, and fairly reliable. I have gone only a few attempts without getting this soul
Creaking Skeleton - Definitely useful, but it's so rare I've never been able to test it, and I would never be comfortable reacting to this soul.
Skeleton Knight - +4 strength. more reliable than minotaur.
Minotaur - +8 strength. I do not find this reliable.
Giant Armor - Like the Creaking Skeleton, this is certainly useful, but is too rare to rely on and plan for.
Rock Armor - Good for the Giant Armor, but I have yet to get this in a real attempt.
Balore - Guaranteed. Gives a single powerful attack. Used to kill Chaos faster.
Red Minotaur - Unreliable alternative to Balore. Deals more damage per hit, and hits twice. Requires more MP.

My goal for this run (for now) is consistency. If I get another copy of the game (mine no longer works properly), i might go for an official record. For now, I think this game can be beaten consistently, and I hope to prove it in the coming weeks.

Thread title:

So....I'm working on this. Not sure what else to say. I didn't see any other threads about this (and a search turned up no results), so I thought I'd make one. The current record is 18:59 by a japanese player. I'll post that if I can find the video again. It does not make use of a glitch with the Bat Soul to clip through walls, but it does get absurd luck with souls (biggest one being Minotaur's +8 strength). I'm not sure whether I can beat this, but theoretically the Bat Soul glitches give me about a minute of leeway.

Other runners of this game that I know of include DragonDarch (every category besides this one), RedShifter (has worked on this one, is focussing on New Game+), and Rainbowism (was working on this, shows up from time to time in my streams to laugh at how bad I am).

I can get to Chaos consistently. I cannot beat it consistently. Or at all, really. I spent about 7 hours on it today to get everything through the first phase of Chaos consistent. The second phase is proving to be ridiculous, though.

General notes about the route:

1) I do not go for the Bastard Sword. It does not seem to be worth it in regards to time. Only reason I can think of to go for it is for money to buy extra potions, but that would never be acceptable outside a marathon setting.

2) RedShifter and I have put extensive work into acquiring the Claimh Solais before Chaos. We have found 2 consistent methods that get the sword and then go to Chaos. Both are slower overall, and even in a marathon setting it is questionable whether this would be done.

3) Bat Clipping is used from the Arena Save to the Arena Warp, from nearby the Entrance Warp to the Keep Save, from the screen above that outside the castle walls, and then as a backup if the Chaotic Realm zip doesn't go perfectly. As stated above, this seems to be a total of ~60 seconds saved.

4) Useful souls: 
Winged Skeleton: You start with this. The spear continues to hit while it's stuck in a surface. Used to kill enemies, break open Soul Containers quickly, and fight the Creaking Skeleton in most attempts.
Skeleton - If you get it before the first boss, you can kill it quicker by alternating ground-canceled attacks and bone throws. You can also use this ability to kill imps, who become significantly more annoying without the bastard sword.
Bat - Good for killing the imps, and fairly reliable. I have gone only a few attempts without getting this soul
Creaking Skeleton - Definitely useful, but it's so rare I've never been able to test it, and I would never be comfortable reacting to this soul.
Skeleton Knight - +4 strength. more reliable than minotaur.
Minotaur - +8 strength. I do not find this reliable.
Giant Armor - Like the Creaking Skeleton, this is certainly useful, but is too rare to rely on and plan for.
Rock Armor - Good for the Giant Armor, but I have yet to get this in a real attempt.
Balore - Guaranteed. Gives a single powerful attack. Used to kill Chaos faster.
Red Minotaur - Unreliable alternative to Balore. Deals more damage per hit, and hits twice. Requires more MP.

My goal for this run (for now) is consistency. If I get another copy of the game (mine no longer works properly), i might go for an official record. For now, I think this game can be beaten consistently, and I hope to prove it in the coming weeks.

Fragmaster01

2011-09-30 02:21:07 am

Wiggle wiggle

I'll take a wild guess here, and say you use the aformentioned wall-clipping glitch to go to Julius/Chaotic Realm without having to fight Graham(and thus collect FlameDemon+Succubus)? If that's not the case, I'm curious as to how you intend to pull off such shenanigans.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-09-30 04:59:03 am

2011-09-30 04:57:05 am

Claimh Happy

Well, technically yes, that's how I do it now. I kind of took that for granted because the same Catoblepas clip that allows you to skip the first Manticore fight brings you to the start of the Chaotic Realm zip, so it's more than possible to do it without actually using the Bat Clip. It's just not as fast because of the travel distance to get there.

EDIT: Since there's some question about this, i'll write up the entire route after school. Hopefully that will be more clear.

Thomaz

2011-09-30 11:49:43 am

Catchin' them all

I've been planning on doing a run for the same category as well, preferably SS too, but the Manticore skip doesn't always work for me and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Is there a specific direction I have to hold during the glitch?

I'll probably won't have much time to actually record a run in the near future, so I'd be glad to help out if I can.

Do you get the Laevatain? It's pretty useful if you wanna level up fast (killing the Killer Mantle).

Tbh though, if you can consistently get the first skip to work, you should probably try to get the Minotaur soul. And if all fails, there's also the Skeleton Knight I guess. =p

But an any% SS of this game would be nice. Smiley

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-09-30 01:29:03 pm

Claimh Happy

I'll post the full route after I answer Thomaz's questions.

The Manticore Skip involves using a Catoblepas Clip in the room with the Copper Plate. The way to perform such a clip is as follows:
1) Lure the Catoblepas (the glitch works the exact same way with Gorgon's, by the way) to the wall you want to clip into. If it turns before it reaches the wall, it's no good.
2) Get on top of the Catoblepas (if you aren't already) and stand on it's back half, facing away from the wall. Wait for it to start to turn (I personally give it a quick 2-count once I see the animation start) and backdash. The timing on the backdash is the most important part of getting the clip, so practice this until you get a feel for it.
3) Hold towards the wall. You will walk against it for a few frames then clip into it (after which you will quickly rise through the wall). I like to hold up at the same time, as my dPad is prone to hitting down if I try to hold straight left or straight right (and crouching is dangerous on this particular wall).

As with all tricks, practice this until you're consistent. It should only take a little while. It may be worth noting that backdashing is not required to get the glitch, but I find it makes it significantly more reliable. I imagine that with altered timing it would be just as simple, though.

I do collect Levaetain. It is by far the strongest weapon that is worth time to collect. It is actually the weapon of choice from the moment you get it until through the end of the run. The Claimh Solais was also considered, due to it's tremendous power and stat boosts, but it simply takes too long to get (90 seconds to get, only saves 20-30 seconds at most). Might be worth it in a marathon run, though, as every second you aren't fighting Chaos is a godsend.

I don't find killing the Minotaur to be worth it. You can take ~30 damage to boost off his axe and over him without losing time, and killing him takes a good 5 seconds, plus fending off the Ectoplasm (though admittedly getting cursed isn't so terrible at that point). The Catoblepas also occasionally gets a nice petrification attack off, which is somewhat unpredictable and a large time waster. By all means go for it in a real run, but don't be surprised if it takes hundreds of runs before the Minotaur's soul lines up with solid gameplay. The Skeleton Knights are somewhat reliable, though, as you kill 6 of them (4 of them mandatory, the others take 2-3 seconds each) and they come with the chance of a Rapier drop, which is better than their soul for the first half of the run (until you get Levaetain).

Yeah, an any% SS of this would be great. Which reminds me that I need to find the japanese run on youtube. I'd also like to see this in a marathon at some point, but I don't know who would run it.

Anyways, next update will be the full route. I may wait until someone else posts just so I can justify giving it its own post Tongue

I'll post the full route after I answer Thomaz's questions.

The Manticore Skip involves using a Catoblepas Clip in the room with the Copper Plate. The way to perform such a clip is as follows:
1) Lure the Catoblepas (the glitch works the exact same way with Gorgon's, by the way) to the wall you want to clip into. If it turns before it reaches the wall, it's no good.
2) Get on top of the Catoblepas (if you aren't already) and stand on it's back half, facing away from the wall. Wait for it to start to turn (I personally give it a quick 2-count once I see the animation start) and backdash. The timing on the backdash is the most important part of getting the clip, so practice this until you get a feel for it.
3) Hold towards the wall. You will walk against it for a few frames then clip into it (after which you will quickly rise through the wall). I like to hold up at the same time, as my dPad is prone to hitting down if I try to hold straight left or straight right (and crouching is dangerous on this particular wall).

As with all tricks, practice this until you're consistent. It should only take a little while. It may be worth noting that backdashing is not required to get the glitch, but I find it makes it significantly more reliable. I imagine that with altered timing it would be just as simple, though.

I do collect Levaetain. It is by far the strongest weapon that is worth time to collect. It is actually the weapon of choice from the moment you get it until through the end of the run. The Claimh Solais was also considered, due to it's tremendous power and stat boosts, but it simply takes too long to get (90 seconds to get, only saves 20-30 seconds at most). Might be worth it in a marathon run, though, as every second you aren't fighting Chaos is a godsend.

I don't find killing the Minotaur to be worth it. You can take ~30 damage to boost off his axe and over him without losing time, and killing him takes a good 5 seconds, plus fending off the Ectoplasm (though admittedly getting cursed isn't so terrible at that point). The Catoblepas also occasionally gets a nice petrification attack off, which is somewhat unpredictable and a large time waster. By all means go for it in a real run, but don't be surprised if it takes hundreds of runs before the Minotaur's soul lines up with solid gameplay. The Skeleton Knights are somewhat reliable, though, as you kill 6 of them (4 of them mandatory, the others take 2-3 seconds each) and they come with the chance of a Rapier drop, which is better than their soul for the first half of the run (until you get Levaetain).

Yeah, an any% SS of this would be great. Which reminds me that I need to find the japanese run on youtube. I'd also like to see this in a marathon at some point, but I don't know who would run it.

Anyways, next update will be the full route. I may wait until someone else posts just so I can justify giving it its own post :P

Thomaz

2011-09-30 04:02:13 pm

Catchin' them all

I know how to activate the glitch, it's just that I randomly "teleport" to the room with the Giant Ghost, instead of the room you're supposed to go. Whenever I have the time, I'll practice for it for a bit. =) Oh, and actually reaching that ledge sometimes is annoying as well. Sad

You're probably right about the Minotaur btw, most likely better to just damage boost past. Tongue

Oh, and here's the run btw:

romscout

Edit history:

romscout: 2011-09-30 05:30:35 pm

romscout: 2011-09-30 05:27:14 pm

romscout: 2011-09-30 05:25:56 pm

romscout: 2011-09-30 05:25:32 pm

2011-09-30 05:24:57 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Quote from Thomaz:

I know how to activate the glitch, it's just that I randomly "teleport" to the room with the Giant Ghost, instead of the room you're supposed to go.

It's all in your control. There is no luck involved in the zips at all. You just have to change directions on the dpad at the right moment. I'm not sure if any of them are frame precise, but the optimal zip to Chaos might be. You have some other frames that put you in the save room next to there, though.

P.S. I practice this run now and again as well. The 18:59 is heavily improvable. Also I'm pretty sure Mapler already knows this since he started running it cuz of me. :p

Edit: do you have a video of the bat clip to the Arena warp? I'm not sure where you'd do it.
Edit2: whatever happened to the psycho plan of getting Lubicant and fighting Balore and Chaos with close to 0 HP? I know RedShifter told me to do that.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-09-30 05:48:52 pm

Claimh Happy

Thomaz, it seems I misunderstood the part of the glitch that gives you trouble. After you clip into the wall, you should warp such that you are outside the castle walls in an area the game will identify as "Chapel", then fall down a screen (still outside the walls). There should be a tiny devil pestering you. Kill it or let it fly off the screen. With nice luck, you can simply walk right to skip the Manticore fight. For consitency, walk to the right a little at a time (you should notice that instead of a slope, it's just blocks in a step pattern). In order to get the skip every time, you need to fall onto the lowest of those "steps". From there, just hold right and you'll come out in front of the Chapel Warp.

Romscout, when's the last time you practiced? The only reason I didn't mention you is that I haven't seen you play in ages.

I don't have a video, but I could either make one or just show you some time. It only takes a little while to get there.

I was never going for Lubicant. Ever. Let RedShifter tackle that beast on his own -_-

Anyways, route coming....soon. I might cop out and record a lazy run instead. I'm far too specific when I try to type it >_>.

Thomaz, it seems I misunderstood the part of the glitch that gives you trouble. After you clip into the wall, you should warp such that you are outside the castle walls in an area the game will identify as "Chapel", then fall down a screen (still outside the walls). There should be a tiny devil pestering you. Kill it or let it fly off the screen. With nice luck, you can simply walk right to skip the Manticore fight. For consitency, walk to the right a little at a time (you should notice that instead of a slope, it's just blocks in a step pattern). In order to get the skip every time, you need to fall onto the lowest of those "steps". From there, just hold right and you'll come out in front of the Chapel Warp.

Romscout, when's the last time you practiced? The only reason I didn't mention you is that I haven't seen you play in ages.

I don't have a video, but I could either make one or just show you some time. It only takes a little while to get there.

I was never going for Lubicant. Ever. Let RedShifter tackle that beast on his own -_-

Anyways, route coming....soon. I might cop out and record a lazy run instead. I'm far too specific when I try to type it >_>.

romscout

2011-09-30 05:54:16 pm

that Metroidvania guy

I don't stream my practice runs of this because there's like a 1% chance of finishing the run. I did practice like a week ago though.

Also for skipping Manticore, you just have to get used to like, the 2 different positions where you can be on the screen when it says "Chapel". Depending on the position, you either can hold right and make it in or wait a split second and then start holding right. Just sit down and practice it for like, 20 minutes from the nearest save. You'll start hitting it every time no problem regardless of how you zip into the Chapel area.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-02 01:23:11 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-01 12:54:49 pm

2011-09-30 06:02:16 pm

Claimh Happy

Or if you're practically blind like I am and can't tell which position, you can take it slow like me :P.

This game is eating my soul. Chaos phase 2 is impossible. When I practice Chaos, the rest of the run falls apart, when I practice the run, Chaos falls apart. When I go out of my way to get 4 extra healing items, the fight goes even worse. If I go for the Claimh, i lose my ability to do the bat clip and it takes 10 extra minutes to get to the fight, at which point I still manage to screw it up. This game can go to hell.

That said, i'll probably stream again tonight. Depends on whether I get back late from dinner.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2011-10-03 01:43:54 pm

2011-10-03 01:42:18 pm

Master-88

I actually did beat SDA run already.
http://www.youtube.com/user/metroidmaster88#grid/user/85FE461EA0402B6F

This is actually quite sloppy run. I just test new ideas here. But all luck manipulations make game super annoying to speedrun. I think 32.xx is surely possible. Its might be possible go for sub 30 minutes. My clear time was 34:47. I pick up some unnecessary souls and items.. But for sure there is a lot good ideas about route and run is worth watching.

BTW my run was glitchless done like SDA run

Good luck your run.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 09:18:16 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 09:14:39 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 08:57:13 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 08:50:33 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 06:51:18 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-03 06:51:00 pm

2011-10-03 06:35:31 pm

Claimh Happy

Tried to do a test with the Vjaya (weaker than Levaetain but hits twice). Somehow got 3 mana prisms, a super potion, and the Claimh instead. Beat Chaos though (in-game 26:51). A sub 30 run is more than feasible for a marathon. huzzah. Now to get something that's actually decent >_>.

Edit: I'd like to point out that this was my first time beating Chaos in over 370 attempts.

Edit2: Did a real test with Vjaya. It's....interesting. I think I'll use it for phase 1 ~~and the upper eyes in phase 2. I can't tell whether it's faster than Levaetain for the lower eyes (you sometimes miss one of the hits, which ruins its benefits).~~ and the lower eyes in phase 2. You can swing this rather fast while crouching, which gives you a (nearly) safe place to attack the lower eyes from without having to move. Useless against the core, and less efficient than the Levaetain against the upper eyes before you cannot get a second 2-hit swing in one jump.

Edit 3: The Claimh Solais is still the best weapon. I have about a 60% chance of winning the fight with it, compared to less than 1% with Vjaya/Levaetain in practice. With the new Claimh route through the Top Floor, i'm actually starting to consider this. All I need is a way to properly buffer a bat transformation and it will be worth it (i think).

Tried to do a test with the Vjaya (weaker than Levaetain but hits twice). Somehow got 3 mana prisms, a super potion, and the Claimh instead. Beat Chaos though (in-game 26:51). A sub 30 run is more than feasible for a marathon. huzzah. Now to get something that's actually decent >_>.

Edit: I'd like to point out that this was my first time beating Chaos in over 370 attempts.

Edit2: Did a real test with Vjaya. It's....interesting. I think I'll use it for phase 1 [s]and the upper eyes in phase 2. I can't tell whether it's faster than Levaetain for the lower eyes (you sometimes miss one of the hits, which ruins its benefits).[/s] and the lower eyes in phase 2. You can swing this rather fast while crouching, which gives you a (nearly) safe place to attack the lower eyes from without having to move. Useless against the core, and less efficient than the Levaetain against the upper eyes before you cannot get a second 2-hit swing in one jump.

Edit 3: The Claimh Solais is still the best weapon. I have about a 60% chance of winning the fight with it, compared to less than 1% with Vjaya/Levaetain in practice. With the new Claimh route through the Top Floor, i'm actually starting to consider this. All I need is a way to properly buffer a bat transformation and it will be worth it (i think).

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-04 06:30:57 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-04 06:28:34 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-04 06:26:11 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-04 06:25:07 pm

2011-10-03 10:18:06 pm

Claimh Happy

I need to time it, but I guarantee I now have the fastest possible way to get from Balore to the Claimh Solais to Chaos. I think it loses ~30 seconds getting to the final save over the direct path. I don't know how much time the Claimh saves in the fight (to be honest, a perfect fight with the Levaetain might not lose any time at all, but like hell that's ever gonna happen). As a bonus, it gives us an extra Super Potion less than 5 seconds out of the way (and for those looking to consistency, the Chapel Melon is a 10-15 second detour, which isn't a very heavy cost for a full-health item).

EDIT: 20:07 in-game on my first test run. I'd say 60 ~~minutes~~ seconds of gameplay not counted (menu navigation + 2 game-suspension wall rises).

EDIT2: When I say first test run, I don't mean the first success. I mean literally my first test with the route. Claimh Solais makes this SOOOOO much easier ^_^

Edit3: Also, I got the Melon but didn't use it, so that's 10-15 seconds of waste. I never used the Super Potion either, so I don't think the melon is necessary. It's also worth noting that it barely saves any time to use Balore during the fight. The fight really shouldn't even last that long unless you somehow dodge every MP drain in the first phase of the fight.

Edit4: Small typo. Didn't delete it because it's just too stupid -_-

I need to time it, but I guarantee I now have the fastest possible way to get from Balore to the Claimh Solais to Chaos. I think it loses ~30 seconds getting to the final save over the direct path. I don't know how much time the Claimh saves in the fight (to be honest, a perfect fight with the Levaetain might not lose any time at all, but like hell that's ever gonna happen). As a bonus, it gives us an extra Super Potion less than 5 seconds out of the way (and for those looking to consistency, the Chapel Melon is a 10-15 second detour, which isn't a very heavy cost for a full-health item).

EDIT: 20:07 in-game on my first test run. I'd say 60 [s]minutes[/s] seconds of gameplay not counted (menu navigation + 2 game-suspension wall rises).

EDIT2: When I say first test run, I don't mean the first success. I mean literally my first test with the route. Claimh Solais makes this SOOOOO much easier ^_^

Edit3: Also, I got the Melon but didn't use it, so that's 10-15 seconds of waste. I never used the Super Potion either, so I don't think the melon is necessary. It's also worth noting that it barely saves any time to use Balore during the fight. The fight really shouldn't even last that long unless you somehow dodge every MP drain in the first phase of the fight.

Edit4: Small typo. Didn't delete it because it's just too stupid -_-

Thomaz

2011-10-05 11:01:25 am

Catchin' them all

Good to see you're progressing!

I finally got my game again and I started playing. Route is easy and I just need to brush up my skill. Tongue

Though, there's one thing, how exactly does the Bat skip work? I can't get it to work. Sad

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-05 02:32:40 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-05 02:32:37 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-05 02:32:36 pm

2011-10-05 02:31:42 pm

Claimh Happy

This video is how I learned it. If have skype, feel free to add me (same username as here, just include who you are in the intro message if it's not obvious). Same with MSN, but I'm nicoshdw there.

So.....two things.

1) I really need to make a video with the route. Both routes, actually, since I'm not sure whether the Claimh route is faster (though it's a hell of a lot easier, which means more room for optimization as well). I'm about to start streaming, so I guess I'll just highlight it if I get a run to go smoothly.

2) While I was looking for that video for Thomaz, I found one showing a money glitch. So......i'll be testing that as well, to see what the fastest way to get money is (selling 255 "potions" as a time for 100 each, which takes a while, or selling expensive "items" 1 at a time for larger amounts, but they would be longer to scroll to and you can't see what you've selected. I'll post more on this glitch later, but this video explains how to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDYEdp_9lFA
 
This video is how I learned it. If have skype, feel free to add me (same username as here, just include who you are in the intro message if it's not obvious). Same with MSN, but I'm nicoshdw there.

So.....two things.

1) I really need to make a video with the route. Both routes, actually, since I'm not sure whether the Claimh route is faster (though it's a hell of a lot easier, which means more room for optimization as well). I'm about to start streaming, so I guess I'll just highlight it if I get a run to go smoothly.

2) While I was looking for that video for Thomaz, I found one showing a money glitch. So......i'll be testing that as well, to see what the fastest way to get money is (selling 255 "potions" as a time for 100 each, which takes a while, or selling expensive "items" 1 at a time for larger amounts, but they would be longer to scroll to and you can't see what you've selected. I'll post more on this glitch later, but this video explains how to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhVK3MTJng&feature=related

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-05 08:18:00 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-05 08:17:11 pm

2011-10-05 08:15:43 pm

Claimh Happy

Here's the route. Anything that looks bad probably is, considering I'm rather new to this game. The butcher room's strat is from when I needed a baselard drop, so I need to go back to the old method there. One of the times I suspended the game wasn't necessary, but I changed direction instead of un-transforming (mental lapse :P). I was probably still thinking about the zip to Top Floor, where I un-transformed instead of changing direction (which meant I had to walk to the Super Potion instead of zipping to it). It's also not required that I split going from the Claimh Solais room to the Chaotic Realm into two small parts, but the timing is a little strict and I was more concerned with getting a route on record. The Chaos fight is terrible. A bit of bad luck and generally poor optimization on Phase 1, and i don't even want to think about how many times I failed to jump while attacking in Phase 2. The in-game time is 18:53 (the fastest SS is 18:59 real-time). There were probably 2 full minutes of mistakes, but with the aforementioned improvements to the route, I think we can set 19-20 minutes as the bar for an "average" live run.

Edit: I realize I'm double posting, but I think a video of the complete route is significant enough not to risk some people failing to check the thread because it doesn't say there's a new post.

Edit2: Yes, this comes with my commentary during the stream. So embarrassing T-T

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFskxE7FKoY

Here's the route. Anything that looks bad probably is, considering I'm rather new to this game. The butcher room's strat is from when I needed a baselard drop, so I need to go back to the old method there. One of the times I suspended the game wasn't necessary, but I changed direction instead of un-transforming (mental lapse :P). I was probably still thinking about the zip to Top Floor, where I un-transformed instead of changing direction (which meant I had to walk to the Super Potion instead of zipping to it). It's also not required that I split going from the Claimh Solais room to the Chaotic Realm into two small parts, but the timing is a little strict and I was more concerned with getting a route on record. The Chaos fight is terrible. A bit of bad luck and generally poor optimization on Phase 1, and i don't even want to think about how many times I failed to jump while attacking in Phase 2. The in-game time is 18:53 (the fastest SS is 18:59 real-time). There were probably 2 full minutes of mistakes, but with the aforementioned improvements to the route, I think we can set 19-20 minutes as the bar for an "average" live run.

Edit: I realize I'm double posting, but I think a video of the complete route is significant enough not to risk some people failing to check the thread because it doesn't say there's a new post.

Edit2: Yes, this comes with my commentary during the stream. So embarrassing T-T

Fragmaster01

2011-10-05 09:54:58 pm

Wiggle wiggle

Response stuff!

Time your Flying Armors closer to the ground in the beginning, when you're using them to avoid fall-stun.
Backdash through the bone pillars on the way to the double-jump, rather than killing them. Also, if you didn't get a weapon drop from the butchers before Giant Armor, don't bother killing them on the way back up.
On Chaos near the end, you tended to move to a spot between where then 2nd and 3rd arrows would fire. Be more under the orb, between arrows 1 and 2, so you can slash the orb while it's firing.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-05 11:06:10 pm

Claimh Happy

Thanks for the feedback.

The flying armor doesn't cancel the fall-stun unless you cut out a fair bit of speed. I try to wait as long as possible, but it seems I tend to do it on the early side.

The entire bone pillar room is terrible. It's just a bad habit. I shouldn't be killing anything. On either pass through the room. The baselard doesn't even help because it makes the Giant Armor fight stupid.

I never even thought of that. I have a tendency to panic during the fight.

Thomaz

2011-10-06 12:50:36 pm

Catchin' them all

Thanks for the route!

At least I can try to get better times, for myself, segmented before attempting a real "casual" run. I tend to kill too many enemies though. :/

And yeah, I got the Baselard randomly of a zombie and it really makes the Giant Armor stupid lol. The range is so horrible, I often missjudge and just randomly miss attacks. D:

I gotta study the Manticore skip some more though, to get better at knowing where and when to hold.

But yeah, good luck!

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-06 02:10:13 pm

2011-10-06 02:06:47 pm

Claimh Happy

Glad I could help. The biggest goal I had was to make it so that you CAN do a casual run of the game. Before, the route used Levaetain as its endgame weapon, used the Catoblepas Clip -> Outside Chapel walls again to get in position for a Chaotic Realm zip, which had no backup in case of failure. It also required an additional pass through the 3 rooms between the Arena Save and the Arena Warp, which I never got consistent at. None of this was impossible, but it sure wasn't casual Tongue

Sadly, though, I fear using the Levaetain for Chaos may end up faster overall, if only because it cuts out the game suspensions from the route. I'm not sure whether I'm capable of that, sadly :S. I could certainly make a small detour (30 seconds or so) to get 255 potions, but that feels a little cheap Tongue

EDIT: Shit. That's right. The shop glitch. um......I really don't know how to approach this. I have a full list of how much money you can make using this glitch (one full pass through the list + one round of mass "potion" selling gives you just over 350,000), but it does involve some memory corruption, which I do not have a full list of. The aforementioned "full pass" will always crash your game. I also need to test whether the money amounts are the always the same (since they seems to be based on certain memory values, different playthroughs may not get the same results).

Glad I could help. The biggest goal I had was to make it so that you CAN do a casual run of the game. Before, the route used Levaetain as its endgame weapon, used the Catoblepas Clip -> Outside Chapel walls again to get in position for a Chaotic Realm zip, which had no backup in case of failure. It also required an additional pass through the 3 rooms between the Arena Save and the Arena Warp, which I never got consistent at. None of this was impossible, but it sure wasn't casual :P

Sadly, though, I fear using the Levaetain for Chaos may end up faster overall, if only because it cuts out the game suspensions from the route. I'm not sure whether I'm capable of that, sadly :S. I could certainly make a small detour (30 seconds or so) to get 255 potions, but that feels a little cheap :P

EDIT: Shit. That's right. The shop glitch. um......I really don't know how to approach this. I have a full list of how much money you can make using this glitch (one full pass through the list + one round of mass "potion" selling gives you just over 350,000), but it does involve some memory corruption, which I do not have a full list of. The aforementioned "full pass" will always crash your game. I also need to test whether the money amounts are the always the same (since they seems to be based on certain memory values, different playthroughs may not get the same results).

Thomaz

2011-10-07 03:53:54 pm

Catchin' them all

So like, I can't get the corner glitch to work at all. =/ Could it be NTSC only or am I just doing something wrong? Like, do you press everything at the same time, or in a row? Help. =(

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-07 11:36:28 pm

2011-10-07 07:44:13 pm

Claimh Happy

I truly must apologize, Thomaz, because I just realized I've ignored your question since you asked. For some reason I thought I answered it. Anyways, it involves several small tricks being used together.

Instant Un-Transformation:

Go on solid ground, hold down, and press 'R' twice. You'll see that you transform into a bat, un-transform into the standing position, then crouch. Do it again, but this time transform, press down, then un-transform (one at a time, but as quickly as possible). If you do it right, you'll transform into a bat, un-transform, and you'll instantaneously be crouching (the other way, you should have seen the animation of going into a crouch).

Temporary Partial Wall Entry:

Press up against a wall and hold towards it. Press 'R' to transform into a bat. You should see that as you transform, you'll move slightly into the wall, then get pushed out by collision detection.

Permanent Partial Wall Entry:

This combines the previous two tricks. It only works in places where solid ground meets a wall at a right angle. Press against the wall and transform (as you did for Temporary Partial Wall Entry), then quickly press down, then 'R' again to un-transform. As with Instant Un-Transformation, if you see the animation of going from standing to crouching, you did it wrong. If not, you should notice that you never get pushed out from the wall, in which case you have successfully executed Permanent Partial Wall Entry. If you move in either direction, backdash, transform (generally any action besides crouching), you will be pushed out of the wall.

Corner Entry:

This can be done on any wall you can successfully perform a Permanent Partial Wall Entry, provided you are able to stand up. Naturally, this means the first step is to perform a Permanent Partial Wall Entry on the wall you wish to clip into. Once you've done this, crouch and turn away from the wall. Crouching is done so you can turn without actually moving, which would push you out of the wall. Stand up (still facing away) without moving. Finally, press 'L' (to backdash), 'R' (to transform), and whichever direction is away from the wall all on the same frame. The backdash and transformation will cause you to enter the wall, and holding away from the wall will allow you to continue to move, instead of being ejected immediately (when in bat form and inside a wall, Soma will move sideways in the opposite direction from the one you are holding. In any other form, he will rise straight up).

Having said all this, I have no idea if it works on PAL. I sincerely hope it does. ~~because I will cry if I typed that all out for nothing T-T~~

~~And on another note, I just obsoleted the route. Again. And now we're back to no Claimh. I'll post it when I stop hating myself T-T~~
Having actually timed the fight, it turns out the Claimh Solais saves 50 seconds, even though it's only used in the Chaos fight. To make it even more appealing, this was done by comparing my dreadful fight with the Claimh to Chihilon's amazing fight with Levaetain. It's likely to save a full minute or more with a good fight (minus the ~30 seconds to get it). It's worth noting the the route i'm comparing it to is already ~1:30 faster than chihilon's, which means this run could very well fall below 17 minutes with perfection.

I truly must apologize, Thomaz, because I just realized I've ignored your question since you asked. For some reason I thought I answered it. Anyways, it involves several small tricks being used together.

[u]Instant Un-Transformation:[/u]

Go on solid ground, hold down, and press 'R' twice. You'll see that you transform into a bat, un-transform into the standing position, then crouch. Do it again, but this time transform, press down, then un-transform (one at a time, but as quickly as possible). If you do it right, you'll transform into a bat, un-transform, and you'll instantaneously be crouching (the other way, you should have seen the animation of going into a crouch).

[u]Temporary Partial Wall Entry:[/u]

Press up against a wall and hold towards it. Press 'R' to transform into a bat. You should see that as you transform, you'll move slightly into the wall, then get pushed out by collision detection.

[u]Permanent Partial Wall Entry:[/u]

This combines the previous two tricks. It only works in places where solid ground meets a wall at a right angle. Press against the wall and transform (as you did for Temporary Partial Wall Entry), then quickly press down, then 'R' again to un-transform. As with Instant Un-Transformation, if you see the animation of going from standing to crouching, you did it wrong. If not, you should notice that you never get pushed out from the wall, in which case you have successfully executed Permanent Partial Wall Entry. If you move in either direction, backdash, transform (generally any action besides crouching), you will be pushed out of the wall.

[u]Corner Entry:[/u]

This can be done on any wall you can successfully perform a Permanent Partial Wall Entry, provided you are able to stand up. Naturally, this means the first step is to perform a Permanent Partial Wall Entry on the wall you wish to clip into. Once you've done this, crouch and turn away from the wall. Crouching is done so you can turn without actually moving, which would push you out of the wall. Stand up (still facing away) without moving. Finally, press 'L' (to backdash), 'R' (to transform), and whichever direction is away from the wall all on the same frame. The backdash and transformation will cause you to enter the wall, and holding away from the wall will allow you to continue to move, instead of being ejected immediately (when in bat form and inside a wall, Soma will move sideways in the opposite direction from the one you are holding. In any other form, he will rise straight up).

Having said all this, I have no idea if it works on PAL. I sincerely hope it does. [s]because I will cry if I typed that all out for nothing T-T[/s]

[s]And on another note, I just obsoleted the route. Again. And now we're back to no Claimh. I'll post it when I stop hating myself T-T[/s]
Having actually timed the fight, it turns out the Claimh Solais saves 50 seconds, even though it's only used in the Chaos fight. To make it even more appealing, this was done by comparing my dreadful fight with the Claimh to Chihilon's amazing fight with Levaetain. It's likely to save a full minute or more with a good fight (minus the ~30 seconds to get it). It's worth noting the the route i'm comparing it to is already ~1:30 faster than chihilon's, which means this run could very well fall below 17 minutes with perfection.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2011-10-08 06:04:29 am

2011-10-08 05:40:22 am

Catchin' them all

Why apologize? Tongue

You answered it only four hours later then my own response and pretty thorough too! Thanks for that. Smiley

But yeah, I've been trying it quite a bit and perhaps it's not possible in PAL. I can't get the PPWE (lol) to work at all and when I transform into the Bat, I don't get pushed out the wall either. Sad

I'll try it some more, but yeah, it would kinda suck if it didn't work (stupid PAL. <_<).

And it feels as if the crouching part isn't as fast as it should be.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 09:47:26 am

2011-10-08 09:11:48 am

Claimh Happy

You asked on the 5th, I answered on the 7th. I think that was quite a while given I check this thread compulsively.

Yeah, the acronyms are stupid. It's hard coming up with comprehensive names for small tricks like that. Back to the point, I obviously can't test on an actual PAL system, but I've got a friend who might be able to. In the mean time, keep in mind the the Instant Un-Transformation trick is the most important part, because it's the only way to stay inside the wall. The video does a really confusing thing in that it does it on the one frame that you're so far in the wall you actually don't need it. That said, I really don't want to have you worrying about exceptions when you aren't getting the trick itself.

For now, I'd say to focus on that first step. When you just hold down and tap 'R' twice, you can really see the slow crouch animation. If you go on solid ground, transform (without holding a direction), then press down followed quickly by 'R' to un-transform, you should be able to see the difference. If not, I don't know. Maybe the glitch still works but it's harder to see. Maybe it just doesn't work. I'll get back to you with my friend's results once I find out.

EDIT: He says it works. He seemed rather sure of it.

Also, I think I described the IU-T poorly. What's slow when you do it wrong isn't crouching, it's actually untransforming. When you press against the ground and untransform, there's a delay. But if you quickly untransform right as you start to push against it, that delay isn't there. It's.....hard to explain.

EDIT2: When fighting Chaos with the Claimh, always start with the upper eyes, using two-swing single jumps. Every second attack will hit the lower eye on that side, meaning overall 1/4 of the swings I previously used to take out the eyes were unnecessary. This means the Claimh saves something like 1:10 or 1:15 against Chaos (keep in mind that not only does saving time here directly save time in the run, but it makes the fight safer as well).

You asked on the 5th, I answered on the 7th. I think that was quite a while given I check this thread compulsively.

Yeah, the acronyms are stupid. It's hard coming up with comprehensive names for small tricks like that. Back to the point, I obviously can't test on an actual PAL system, but I've got a friend who might be able to. In the mean time, keep in mind the the Instant Un-Transformation trick is the most important part, because it's the only way to stay inside the wall. The video does a really confusing thing in that it does it on the one frame that you're so far in the wall you actually don't need it. That said, I really don't want to have you worrying about exceptions when you aren't getting the trick itself.

For now, I'd say to focus on that first step. When you just hold down and tap 'R' twice, you can really see the slow crouch animation. If you go on solid ground, transform (without holding a direction), then press down followed quickly by 'R' to un-transform, you should be able to see the difference. If not, I don't know. Maybe the glitch still works but it's harder to see. Maybe it just doesn't work. I'll get back to you with my friend's results once I find out.

EDIT: He says it works. He seemed rather sure of it.

Also, I think I described the IU-T poorly. What's slow when you do it wrong isn't crouching, it's actually untransforming. When you press against the ground and untransform, there's a delay. But if you quickly untransform right as you start to push against it, that delay isn't there. It's.....hard to explain.

EDIT2: When fighting Chaos with the Claimh, always start with the upper eyes, using two-swing single jumps. Every second attack will hit the lower eye on that side, meaning overall 1/4 of the swings I previously used to take out the eyes were unnecessary. This means the Claimh saves something like 1:10 or 1:15 against Chaos (keep in mind that not only does saving time here directly save time in the run, but it makes the fight safer as well).

Thomaz

2011-10-08 04:00:32 pm

Catchin' them all

Meh, I think I'll stop for now. It just doesn't seem to work. I might try to get a random NTSC one from a retro shop or whatever, but... :/