Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow - New Game Any% SS

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 04:04:18 pm

2011-10-08 04:02:27 pm

Claimh Happy

Sorry to hear that. It's definitely possible, so it's a shame that this is what's keeping you from running it. I hope you try it again sometime and have some success.

Also, I found an old TAS that uses similar methods.

http://tasvideos.org/1024M.html

I don't see anything that jumps out as being worth using, but I'll look a few more times. Also, that damage boost to skip flying armor is sexy.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2011-10-08 04:11:10 pm

2011-10-08 04:07:18 pm

Catchin' them all

Maybe it was a bit exaggerated, it's just that I don't understand what I'm doing wrong is all. Tongue

I'm generally not bad with timing ultra precise things. Maybe I just don't have my day. =P

It's true though, that only getting into the wall is needed to zip, right? Like, if I unmorph (sorry, Metroid term. ;p), I can backdash to get out of bounds?

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 09:16:26 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 07:46:25 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 07:33:05 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 07:33:03 pm

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-08 04:33:23 pm

2011-10-08 04:31:18 pm

Claimh Happy

Just backdashing isn't enough. You have to turn into a bat at the same time and hold away from the wall (backdashing and transforming have to be the same frame, holding away is much less strict).

EDIT: If you want me to show you directly, I plan to stream at 8:pm Eastern(hour and a half from now). If you can catch the stream I have no problem devoting time to helping you out.

EDIT2: Didn't end up streaming, got a 18:19 (in-game) while watching yoshifan. Thomaz, let me know when a good time would be to stream so you can watch and see what's happening a few times.

EDIT3: 17:38 watching surreal_. Looks like he's better luck. Anyways, tomorrow I'm actually gonna stream my attempts, because they're getting rather good now, and I don't want anything better than that to go unrecorded.

samthedigital

Edit history:

samthedigital: 2011-10-09 05:02:11 am

2011-10-09 04:57:53 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

It seems that speed isn't really an issue for the first part of the bat glitch. The pattern for clipping the wall goes clip, no clip, clip, no clip, etc. So on every other frame Soma holds the position. It relies on the fact that the bat can be one pixel ahead of Soma, so there is no need to hold forwards as Soma to do the glitch. For the second part Soma has to turn around while crouching, and then press L and R on the same frame and the opposite direction to the wall on the next frame. I just know I explained this poorly.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2011-10-09 06:45:50 am

2011-10-09 06:35:14 am

Catchin' them all

YES! I finally got it! Thanks sam. <333

And thanks to you to of course, mapler Smiley

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-09 07:56:20 am

2011-10-09 07:55:59 am

Claimh Happy

Quote from samthedigital:

It seems that speed isn't really an issue for the first part of the bat glitch. The pattern for clipping the wall goes clip, no clip, clip, no clip, etc. So on every other frame Soma holds the position. It relies on the fact that the bat can be one pixel ahead of Soma, so there is no need to hold forwards as Soma to do the glitch. For the second part Soma has to turn around while crouching, and then press L and R on the same frame and the opposite direction to the wall on the next frame. I just know I explained this poorly.

That......is completely inconsistent with what I've seen. As long as it works, though, I guess it doesn't really matter. Glad it's working for you, Thomaz.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2011-10-09 08:48:51 am

Thomaz: 2011-10-09 08:43:38 am

2011-10-09 08:42:30 am

Catchin' them all

Thanks.

So like, I got into the area with the Lubricants. What do I do now? I got the zip up by using suspend, but I only shoot up. What direction do I have to hold? Tongue

Actually, it seems I just need to morph back to the bat.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-09 11:10:11 am

Claimh Happy

Yeah, the bat is the only form that can zip sideways. Human form and demon (rush soul) form only move upwards (though the rush souls seem to move back a tile when they first clip into the wall. I don't think this can be used for anything, though).

I'm gonna stream some more attempts today. In a few minutes, in fact. I'll (hopefully) go for a while. Anyone who wants to watch, the link is www.justin.tv/mapler90210

samthedigital

2011-10-09 02:35:03 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote from mapler90210:

Quote from samthedigital:

It seems that speed isn't really an issue for the first part of the bat glitch. The pattern for clipping the wall goes clip, no clip, clip, no clip, etc. So on every other frame Soma holds the position. It relies on the fact that the bat can be one pixel ahead of Soma, so there is no need to hold forwards as Soma to do the glitch. For the second part Soma has to turn around while crouching, and then press L and R on the same frame and the opposite direction to the wall on the next frame. I just know I explained this poorly.

That......is completely inconsistent with what I've seen. As long as it works, though, I guess it doesn't really matter. Glad it's working for you, Thomaz.

I am pretty sure that my data is correct as I tested on VBA to be sure.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-10 08:41:56 am

2011-10-09 08:39:21 pm

Claimh Happy

Even if it's true, it just doesn't look like that. When you first transform you can actually see yourself moving into the wall a little. But again, it doesn't really matter. I'm just glad we can all do the trick now Tongue

Two new runs. The first was 16:34 in-game/16:58 real-time. Solid execution, but some route errors were apparent. The high potion was unnecessary and so was level grinding. I believe the level grinding had to do with using Levaetain against Chaos. Getting up to a solid 100 damage per hit was probably huge.

I'm a little mad, though, because it decided to upload to youtube in two parts.

part 1

part 2

The other run was 16:23 in-game/16:29 real-time (i stopped it late in the video. i used the time shown for the video title because it wasn't a good run). I fixed the route issues, but the execution was sloppy, so I didn't save much time. Real-time was significantly faster though, so in certain ways the execution was actually much better (6 second difference this time instead of 25 second difference). I'll post this once it's uploaded to youtube.

Even if it's true, it just doesn't look like that. When you first transform you can actually see yourself moving into the wall a little. But again, it doesn't really matter. I'm just glad we can all do the trick now :P

Two new runs. The first was 16:34 in-game/16:58 real-time. Solid execution, but some route errors were apparent. The high potion was unnecessary and so was level grinding. I believe the level grinding had to do with using Levaetain against Chaos. Getting up to a solid 100 damage per hit was probably huge.

I'm a little mad, though, because it decided to upload to youtube in two parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc6P6og7jAs
part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mZjO5_upsc
part 2

The other run was 16:23 in-game/16:29 real-time (i stopped it late in the video. i used the time shown for the video title because it wasn't a good run). I fixed the route issues, but the execution was sloppy, so I didn't save much time. Real-time was significantly faster though, so in certain ways the execution was actually much better (6 second difference this time instead of 25 second difference). I'll post this once it's uploaded to youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0ZAK-Z_Tfk

Thomaz

2011-10-15 07:16:22 am

Catchin' them all

So, I can get the zip up right before getting the Claim just fine, but I have no idea how to get into the room with Claimh at all. Sad

Any help would be great! Cheesy

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-15 02:16:01 pm

Claimh Happy

After you suspend the game. you should be zipping straight upwards. You'll pass the floor where you previously zipped into the room to the left. Don't do anything yet. You want to hold right and transform into a bat as you reach the next floor (you should be somewhere between level with and one bat-height above the floor). If you timed it right, you'll appear directly in the Claimh room (there should be a delay while the game so conveniently informs you that you've entered the Forbidden Area). You should also see yourself in the wall above the normal entrance to the room. If not, you will be unable to use a game suspension to escape the room (still possible to Corner Entry where you grab the Claimh to appear next to the room with the Joyeuse, but that takes longer).

One special case with what I just mentioned is if you appear in the top right corner of the room, which is not treated as part of the wall. In that case, stay as a bat and hold right. You'll appear in the wall in the next room, then zip back a little below where you were (enough to enter the room, get the Claimh, and suspend back to the corner).

After you suspend the game. you should be zipping straight upwards. You'll pass the floor where  you previously zipped into the room to the left. Don't do anything yet. You want to hold right and transform into a bat as you reach the next floor (you should be somewhere between level with and one bat-height above the floor). If you timed it right, you'll appear directly in the Claimh room (there should be a delay while the game so conveniently informs you that you've entered the Forbidden Area). You should also see yourself in the wall above the normal entrance to the room. If not, you will be unable to use a game suspension to escape the room (still possible to Corner Entry where you grab the Claimh to appear next to the room with the Joyeuse, but that takes longer).

One special case with what I just mentioned is if you appear in the top right corner of the room, which is not treated as part of the wall. In that case, stay as a bat and hold right. You'll appear in the wall in the next room, then zip back a little below where you were (enough to enter the room, get the Claimh, and suspend back to the corner).

Thomaz

2011-10-17 02:51:47 pm

Catchin' them all

Thanks! I was able to get to the Claimh now, I was holding left all that time. Tongue

And with a bit of trying, I've even gotten to Chaos itself. I really suck at the fight loool. But I'll get there. <3

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-18 04:40:33 am

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-18 04:40:21 am

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-18 04:39:28 am

2011-10-18 04:38:16 am

Claimh Happy

The fight will come eventually. Just keep at it. I got all my practice in back when the best weapon for Chaos was Levaetain.

A few tips:

Phase 1: (Bullet is the red one, Guardian is blue, Enchantment is Yellow/Orange)

-This phase is pattern based. Each Chaos Soul will usually attack within 3 different ranges (lower left, lower right, and top).
-You don't need to dodge the Enchantmant Soul's attack. It only drains mana, and you don't need it.
-You can swat away the Bullet Soul's Attack with your sword. The top one fires first, then the left, then the right.
-The focus should be the Guardian Soul, as it's the most dangerous.
-The best pattern (that I'm aware of) to fight them is the one I used in my runs, so I recommend trying to copy that.
-If the Guardian Soul attacks late in the lower left range, the attack won't become active until it reaches the bottom of the rotation. If you dodge it here, it's a miracle.
-Once you break the Guardian Soul, the others can't hurt you as long as you're careful. Go as fast as you can whenever the Bullet Soul isn't attacking, and when it is, take your time and make sure you swat away the attack while still hitting the Souls.

Phase 2: (I usually call the "snake" a "dragon", but I guess that doesn't really matter.)

-Do not be afraid to switch sides if it means getting away from the snake. The bugger is completely random, and it's more important to try and dodge it.
-Learn where to crouch to dodge the Spike attack. Attack the lower eyes when doing so.
-Attack the upper eyes first so you can get the nice double hit on every jump.
-It pays off to swat the green orbs away. Don't do it obsessively, but do it before you're in danger of another attack hitting you into one.
-The large green orb from the snake fires in the direction it's looking, and bounces 2-4 times. Get a sense of where the borders of the room are so the angles don't take you by surprise. They can be a little hard to judge because of the crowded imagery in the room.
-Any time you can use a potion without wasting some of it, do so.
-The Claimh is powerful, so take potshots at the core any time you aren't attacking the eyes.

Obviously this is a lot of "tips", so focus on the ones that seem like they might fix a problem you've been having. Good luck, Thomaz.

The fight will come eventually. Just keep at it. I got all my practice in back when the best weapon for Chaos was Levaetain.

A few tips:

Phase 1: (Bullet is the red one, Guardian is blue, Enchantment is Yellow/Orange)

-This phase is pattern based. Each Chaos Soul will usually attack within 3 different ranges (lower left, lower right, and top). 
-You don't need to dodge the Enchantmant Soul's attack. It only drains mana, and you don't need it.
-You can swat away the Bullet Soul's Attack with your sword. The top one fires first, then the left, then the right.
-The focus should be the Guardian Soul, as it's the most dangerous. 
-The best pattern (that I'm aware of) to fight them is the one I used in my runs, so I recommend trying to copy that.
-If the Guardian Soul attacks late in the lower left range, the attack won't become active until it reaches the bottom of the rotation. If you dodge it here, it's a miracle.
-Once you break the Guardian Soul, the others can't hurt you as long as you're careful. Go as fast as you can whenever the Bullet Soul isn't attacking, and when it is, take your time and make sure you swat away the attack while still hitting the Souls.

Phase 2: (I usually call the "snake" a "dragon", but I guess that doesn't really matter.)

-Do not be afraid to switch sides if it means getting away from the snake. The bugger is completely random, and it's more important to try and dodge it.
-Learn where to crouch to dodge the Spike attack. Attack the lower eyes when doing so.
-Attack the upper eyes first so you can get the nice double hit on every jump.
-It pays off to swat the green orbs away. Don't do it obsessively, but do it before you're in danger of another attack hitting you into one.
-The large green orb from the snake fires in the direction it's looking, and bounces 2-4 times. Get a sense of where the borders of the room are so the angles don't take you by surprise. They can be a little hard to judge because of the crowded imagery in the room.
-Any time you can use a potion without wasting some of it, do so.
-The Claimh is powerful, so take potshots at the core any time you aren't attacking the eyes.

Obviously this is a lot of "tips", so focus on the ones that seem like they might fix a problem you've been having. Good luck, Thomaz.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2011-10-18 11:27:40 am

Thomaz: 2011-10-18 11:11:55 am

2011-10-18 11:11:22 am

Catchin' them all

Thanks.

I just beat him before I actually read your tips lol.

But I'll try to incooperate them next time, because the fight wasn't my best or anything. :/

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-18 07:58:46 pm

Claimh Happy

Glad to hear it. You'll probably see more results from simply practicing it than following my advice (most of it is just getting used to what Chaos can actually do), but hopefully some of it helps.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-19 06:17:37 pm

Claimh Happy

I might be getting ahead of myself, but what do you all think I should try next? SS Hard, Segmented Easy, or Segmented Hard? SS Hard might not be too different other than taking longer to kill bosses (maybe I'll get the two potions I removed from the Easy route?). I don't really know how the two segmented runs would be different from each other, so perhaps there's no point in Easy, but this run would basically combine every piece of bullshit luck I can convince myself to try for with fairly risky boss strategies. I forget whether it'd be 7 or 8 segments, but I think I can cut at least a full minute off a non-segmented run of whichever difficulty it is.

Thomaz

2011-10-26 07:00:45 am

Catchin' them all

Segmented normal please. Tongue

Though it will probably drive you crazy lol.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2011-10-26 11:07:06 pm

Claimh Happy

Segmented normal? Crap, now I've gotten requests for all of them. I'm thinking I'm going to skip the segmented easy run. If I'm going to suffer through Baselard, Attacking Soul + Creaking Skull soul, Flying Armor Skip, Manticore Skip without Flying Armor (shoot me now), Minotaur before Giant Armor (actually I need to test this one first), Lubicant soul, and then optimizing 3 Corner Entries and 2 sleep->wall rises and a Chaos fight, I might as well do it in Hard >_>.

Thomaz

2011-10-27 07:22:45 am

Catchin' them all

Have you actually been able to do the Manticore skip already? It's doable, but I don't know how frame specific it is.

Good luck anyway!

Oh, and why do you call it easy lol? There's no easy mode. ;p

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2011-10-27 05:52:45 pm

2011-10-27 03:12:06 pm

Claimh Happy

No, but I'm doing it anyways >_>

Thanks.

It's a bad habit, that's all. Though it is pretty easy with the current route.

EDIT: Baselard will be in the hard SS. not including it in Normal because I think execution is more important. This will save 36 seconds from not needing the Bastard Sword, though may lose some of that from the first being more difficult.

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

2012-06-02 06:31:03 pm

Claimh Happy

So now that the marathon's over, my stuff is set up, and school's almost out, I'm picking this back up. I'm no longer going to be attempting a Normal mode run, as it's more or less an identical route. The only exception would be that I only use one save room instead of visiting a second for extra health. Baselard has been removed from the route for SS. If I do a hard mode segmented run, I will get it there, but Dragondarch has already expressed interest in that run. I will only do it if he decides to do a no-zips run instead, and obviously he's free to ignore it.

I need one small bit of information before I do this run: What are the best levels to fight Balore and Chaos? I now bypass a lot of enemies that I used to kill, including two Red Minotaurs, so I get to Balore at level 5 (+1 if I get lucky, +1 again if I save before Balore, which is a couple seconds slower). As far as I can tell, Balore is fastest to simply fight him at whatever level I get to him. What I'm not sure about it Chaos. Assuming it's optimal to kill the four eyes, he has a total of 15000 health (you could argue it's effectively 18000 since the core takes about half as much damage as the eyes). That's without counting the 9000 hit points of the first phase. Simply put, he has a lot of health and a few quick levels could make a fair difference here.

So....how much time would each successive level save? I'm really, really bad at estimating and/or calculating this kind of thing, so if anyone can help, that'd be great. Let me know what info I can provide to make this easier.

So now that the marathon's over, my stuff is set up, and school's almost out, I'm picking this back up. I'm no longer going to be attempting a Normal mode run, as it's more or less an identical route.  The only exception would be that I only use one save room instead of visiting a second for extra health. Baselard has been removed from the route for SS. If I do a hard mode segmented run, I will get it there, but Dragondarch has already expressed interest in that run. I will only do it if he decides to do a no-zips run instead, and obviously he's free to ignore it.

I need one small bit of information before I do this run: What are the best levels to fight Balore and Chaos? I now bypass a lot of enemies that I used to kill, including two Red Minotaurs, so I get to Balore at level 5 (+1 if I get lucky, +1 again if I save before Balore, which is a couple seconds slower). As far as I can tell, Balore is fastest to simply fight him at whatever level I get to him. What I'm not sure about it Chaos. Assuming it's optimal to kill the four eyes, he has a total of 15000 health (you could argue it's effectively 18000 since the core takes about half as much damage as the eyes). That's without counting the 9000 hit points of the first phase. Simply put, he has a lot of health and a few quick levels could make a fair difference here.

So....how much time would each successive level save? I'm really, really bad at estimating and/or calculating this kind of thing, so if anyone can help, that'd be great. Let me know what info I can provide to make this easier.

Dragondarch

2012-06-02 11:13:24 pm

Pudding%

I should mention that I'm not planning on doing any zips runs, as I prefer non-zip runs.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2012-06-03 05:43:02 am

Thomaz: 2012-06-03 05:40:18 am

2012-06-03 05:37:35 am

Catchin' them all

Hey mapler, if you could tell me what you kill and what you don't, I could look for those estimates. Level 5 is pretty low, but then again, I kill way too many enemies anyway. <_<

Just a quick estimate, but I'm guessing you kill:
1-2 Mermans (if they get in the way);
4-5 bats (you get hit if you don't);
4-5 Skeleton Knights (Str +4);
4 Rock Armors (or can you jump over them somehow?)
Creaking Skull
Great Armor
3 Killer Mantles (they give lots of exp and are 2HKO'd by the Lavaetein).
Balore
Chaos

Is that about right?

Marche_Fighter_Paladin

Edit history:

Marche_Fighter_Paladin: 2012-06-03 06:53:47 am

2012-06-03 06:40:07 am

Claimh Happy

Oh cool, guess I'm going a segmented run after this.

On a typical run, I kill:

9 Skeletons
1 Creaking Skull
17 Bats
2 Killer Fish
3 Blue Crows
2 Buer
1 Skull Archer
2 Durgas
1-4 Fleamen, depending on what they do
1 Great Armor
However many Winged Skeletons the game puts in my way
1 Axe Armor
1 Killer Mantle
(another killer mantle if I get lucky in the room with a beam skeleton. I'm trying to make this one consistent)
Balore
Hoever many killer mantles I want for levelling up
Haven't decided whether I'll kill the Skull Millione and Lubicant that will try to attack me during a zip.
Chaos