Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest

WunUnknownPlayer

Edit history:

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-01 11:21:48 pm

2012-10-01 10:51:13 pm

Quote from Yagamoth:

Oh... I guess this would also be interesting in here:

Made a short video, Fraps didn't work so I had to use Xsplit. I took some random Youtube music since I recorded the sound from theseawolfs1 stream I was watching instead of the actual game - which would be irritating.

There are a few failed attempts in there, but overall it's really really easy to pull off. Windows Movie Maker can't read it, so I can't cut it.
Even if you should fail, you can easily recognize that early and simply jump over the block and walk out normally (or screenwrap to the other side :P)

0:00 - "Frame perfect" - May be 2 frames... It's rather easy to time actually
0:28 - Not quite perfect - Huge Leeway imo
2:44 - Simply walking outside - Probably could jump a bit better at the beginning, but this wouldn't save the 4 seconds ^^

My tries are not perfect, but you can approximately see where it's going. Also, I have no idea whether you ever have to leave the castle from that point, just a short demonstration Tongue

Edit: Also to note: I've seen that purple block stuff first on theseawolf1's Channel, got a savestate from him and then simply played around a bit

I actually have to see if I can use this, as my new opening doubles the Oak Stake in Rover. I have to see if there is a real savings in this yet, but this glitch may prove very useful in testing...

EDIT: Nope... Faster to get the Oak Stake in Berkeley Mansion than to double up in Rover and even glitch to exit Rover. And faster to get the Oak Stake in Brahms Mansion than to double up in Berkeley... so no change to my route with this one... but it was interesting to perform...

[quote="Yagamoth"]Oh... I guess this would also be interesting in here:

Made a short video, Fraps didn't work so I had to use Xsplit. I took some random Youtube music since I recorded the sound from theseawolfs1 stream I was watching instead of the actual game - which would be irritating.

There are a few failed attempts in there, but overall it's really really easy to pull off. Windows Movie Maker can't read it, so I can't cut it. 
Even if you should fail, you can easily recognize that early and simply jump over the block and walk out normally (or screenwrap to the other side :P)

0:00 - "Frame perfect" - May be 2 frames... It's rather easy to time actually
0:28 - Not quite perfect - Huge Leeway imo
2:44 - Simply walking outside - Probably could jump a bit better at the beginning, but this wouldn't save the 4 seconds ^^

My tries are not perfect, but you can approximately see where it's going. Also, I have no idea whether you ever have to leave the castle from that point, just a short demonstration :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2q1jy1W7GI

Edit: Also to note: I've seen that purple block stuff first on theseawolf1's Channel, got a savestate from him and then simply played around a bit[/quote]

I actually have to see if I can use this, as my new opening doubles the Oak Stake in Rover. I have to see if there is a real savings in this yet, but this glitch may prove very useful in testing...

EDIT: Nope... Faster to get the Oak Stake in Berkeley Mansion than to double up in Rover and even glitch to exit Rover. And faster to get the Oak Stake in Brahms Mansion than to double up in Berkeley... so no change to my route with this one... but it was interesting to perform...

theseawolf1

2012-10-05 12:28:28 pm

SGL Scrublord

Many thanks to ConHuevos for cranking out a collision box viewer. Considering the other games he has worked on are well-known titles with valid WTFs in terms of hit boxes, it is humbling to see my game du jour recieve his attention.

theseawolf1

2012-10-05 01:48:09 pm

SGL Scrublord

Also, I'll get back to attempts when I stop watching Murphagator kill Williamses...or Sunday night. Whichever comes first.

WunUnknownPlayer

2012-10-05 06:22:07 pm

My new route for 100% is definitely doable and actually may reduce the need to farm for the hearts needed for the Morning Star... the trick is that it is not 100% reliable, but just reliable enough and breaking early enough in the game that if things go wrong a reset isn't so bad. I have designs to stream tomorrow at 9pm EDT, and I intend to do some early game practice runs (probably only start to Brahms, though I might continue on if I have a brilliant run up to that point.)

As for the collision box viewer, I will certainly be looking into that as well to see if I can maybe improve the odds of a good run... Thanks to ConHuevos for the script.

Good luck in your runs as well, theseawolf1.

ConHuevos

2012-10-06 07:56:27 am

Ciento Dos Huevos

Is anyone familiar with touching an item that will vanquish the night immediately? I'm playing with object property values and found when enemy boxes are active...but if I set it to a certain value...I get this:

theseawolf1

2012-10-06 09:07:32 am

SGL Scrublord

wat

theseawolf1

2012-10-06 09:10:55 am

SGL Scrublord

Now if only that reset the timer to 6:00...that'd be the craziest find ever. It'd make the floor drop look as tame as walking.

ConHuevos

2012-10-06 09:12:12 am

Ciento Dos Huevos

Okay, I take it no item does that by your reaction haha. Ignore that then, it's not supposed to happen.

WunUnknownPlayer

Edit history:

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-07 04:13:43 am

2012-10-07 04:02:25 am

There are items that cause the Text Box to appear, among them the Sacred Flame and all the Drac's parts. Also interesting to note is the "Item Collected" sound was accompanied with the Text Box in your vid... I guess it would help more if I knew exactly what was changed between your vid and the standard process of the game... It almost looks like you are triggering the item collect action from the game, and the referenced text I guess is based on the enemy with which you collide. Was this just an error in the script, or is it actually in the game code?

ConHuevos

2012-10-07 06:14:59 am

Ciento Dos Huevos

Game code, I was playing around with item properties (i.e. if a box can hurt you, if it can hurt an enemy). Setting it to a certain value produced those text boxes. It had nothing to do with the script but me manually editing them to determine what value == what property.

WunUnknownPlayer

2012-10-25 04:23:11 pm

This is essentially a bump... Just want to know if there was any more progress in the any%...

As for the 100%, I have decided to drill down each screen/leg of my run... which is very time consuming and daunting... and perhaps not possible for every single screen... but I figure it is the only way I am going to ensure that I can get from Jova to Veros and then to Aljiba all in one day. So far, the practice seems promising, and even gives me time to grab the Sacred Flame (which is beneficial in that I get another six or seven enemies to kill which in turn means more opportunities for sorely needed heart drops).

Also, I haven't tackled the problem of actually recording my run from a deck as of yet... will get to that somewhat later (when I know I can consistently put together this route).

theseawolf1

Edit history:

theseawolf1: 2012-10-26 12:52:25 pm

2012-10-26 12:51:53 pm

SGL Scrublord

I had a practically perfect run of Jova-Veros-Aljiba, lost maybe a half second in Dabi's Path and was still about 8 blocks away before night fall. I simply don't think it's possible. Granted I don't need to 1 day that run in my any%, but just putting the info out there.

WunUnknownPlayer

Edit history:

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:48:16 pm

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:47:05 pm

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:46:04 pm

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:44:54 pm

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:43:19 pm

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-26 10:43:00 pm

2012-10-26 02:21:01 pm

Oh, it is doable... I have reached the door with the Garlic in Aljiba before Night 2, starting from the door with the Holy Water in Jova at 0600 of Day 1. I know I can make it (also of note is that I get the Chain Whip in that path). To cut it down and give myself a little more time, I have actually timed the jumps in the bridge section between Jova and Veros. If you time it right, you can almost jump the whole way across that screen and basically just keep moving... (I will see if I can get a recording of it)...

EDIT: Not my best run, but gets the point across... Here you go...

Basically the 100% run is made in the first 10 minutes... if the heart drops aren't there, or if even a single enemy is handled wrong, then the run is a reset... and boy am I going to have to learn to love that pretty red button...

theseawolf1

2012-11-03 06:45:35 am

SGL Scrublord

I LIVE!!!!!

Anyhoo, I know that trip is possible in my any% route, I was referring (like an idiot) to my marathon route.

theseawolf1

2012-11-12 09:43:24 pm

SGL Scrublord

Just pulled a 42 and change to get back into it. Two stupid deaths, and none of the drops went smoothly. Sub 40 or bust, here we go again!

Yagamoth

2012-11-14 04:20:17 am

INTJ

Good luck on running this ^^

UserName001

2012-11-14 05:50:37 am

Keep it up you two.

Take your time if you must, but no quitting!!

WunUnknownPlayer

2012-11-23 07:50:25 pm

I need to get back into this... I think I am going to start by stamping out the route between (Start of Day 2) Aljiba through Rover Mansion (Acquire Drac'd Heart). That should keep me busy for a while.

WunUnknownPlayer

2012-11-25 10:03:52 pm

oh noes... I found one of my old savestates for this game... it opens at the door to the Holy Water in Jova, Time 1d06h00m and Level +1, with Holy Water and Rib and 256 Hearts.

If I read into that save state, it tells me that despite having to travel from Jova to Berkeley and back to Jova to farm, I was still able to get max hearts, which minimizes the heart requirement on the path between Jova and Aljiba (to 44 hearts).

The problems with this route are that it travels the length between Berkeley and Jova one more time than my new route, and there was clearly some heart farming in Berkeley to raise level. Therefore will never produce the best result in real time, even if I reduce the amount of hearts farmed in Berkeley to just the 50 needed for the oak stake. The difference is minutes of real time...

In the spirit of testing it, I want to see what kind of time savings I can get from just farming to 50 hearts. The amount of time saved by not travelling the four screens between Berkeley and Jova an extra time is somewhere in the 80 to 120 second range I wager. I am willing to sacrifice that (for now) if the heart count is favorable after getting the rib early.

oh noes... I found one of my old savestates for this game... it opens at the door to the Holy Water in Jova, Time 1d06h00m and Level +1, with Holy Water and Rib and 256 Hearts.

If I read into that save state, it tells me that despite having to travel from Jova to Berkeley and back to Jova to farm, I was still able to get max hearts, which minimizes the heart requirement on the path between Jova and Aljiba (to 44 hearts).

The problems with this route are that it travels the length between Berkeley and Jova one more time than my new route, and there was clearly some heart farming in Berkeley to raise level. Therefore will never produce the best result in real time, even if I reduce the amount of hearts farmed in Berkeley to just the 50 needed for the oak stake. The difference is minutes of real time...

In the spirit of testing it, I want to see what kind of time savings I can get from just farming to 50 hearts. The amount of time saved by not travelling the four screens between Berkeley and Jova an extra time is somewhere in the 80 to 120 second range I wager. I am willing to sacrifice that (for now) if the heart count is favorable after getting the rib early.

WunUnknownPlayer

2012-11-27 11:00:37 pm

No more than 150 seconds, actually.

It is a hard trade-off that I think will ultimately get the run denied. Basically, the safer route is to get Holy Water and storm Berekely Mansion before the first nightfall. Once inside, in-game time stops and farming to Level 1 is done at the Gargoyle on the way to the Rib. Once the level is gained, the run continues through the Mansion and back to Jova (still night) where further farming occurs. At this point, Simon likely has 256 hearts for the long sprint from Jova to Aljiba (as the video above), which reduces the number of hearts I have to get on the entire path to the minimum 44. This is almost assured as there are just that many enemies on the path between Jova and Aljiba, even though they all give small hearts. In Aljiba, spend 50 hearts for Garlic before night falls. Acquire Silver Knife and farm Ghouls again (Level 2 happens during this farming). One crystal trade later and I make a dash for Rover Mansion, get the Heart and then run back to Jova (night falls once more before I make it). With some glaring mistakes (aka 2 lives lost due to not really knowing the path as well as I should), this path took 27 minutes.

I reviewed my new route video and it took 24m30s to make the same round trip hitting up Berkeley after Rover (and nearly 10 tries to get a valid run). I figure if I can find the optimal spot to farm in Berkeley and clean up the route, I can reduce the difference to about 90 seconds. Again, I fear that the amount of time lost on the safer strat will deny it from submission...

I am getting a good feel here of what you all must go through when you iron out your speedruns... Strangely, I am still having fun with this, and I am still motivated to improve.

No more than 150 seconds, actually.

It is a hard trade-off that I think will ultimately get the run denied. Basically, the safer route is to get Holy Water and storm Berekely Mansion before the first nightfall. Once inside, in-game time stops and farming to Level 1 is done at the Gargoyle on the way to the Rib. Once the level is gained, the run continues through the Mansion and back to Jova (still night) where further farming occurs. At this point, Simon likely has 256 hearts for the long sprint from Jova to Aljiba (as the video above), which reduces the number of hearts I have to get on the entire path to the minimum 44. This is almost assured as there are just that many enemies on the path between Jova and Aljiba, even though they all give small hearts. In Aljiba, spend 50 hearts for Garlic before night falls. Acquire Silver Knife and farm Ghouls again (Level 2 happens during this farming). One crystal trade later and I make a dash for Rover Mansion, get the Heart and then run back to Jova (night falls once more before I make it). With some glaring mistakes (aka 2 lives lost due to not really knowing the path as well as I should), this path took 27 minutes.

I reviewed my new route video and it took 24m30s to make the same round trip hitting up Berkeley after Rover (and nearly 10 tries to get a valid run). I figure if I can find the optimal spot to farm in Berkeley and clean up the route, I can reduce the difference to about 90 seconds. Again, I fear that the amount of time lost on the safer strat will deny it from submission...

I am getting a good feel here of what you all must go through when you iron out your speedruns... Strangely, I am still having fun with this, and I am still motivated to improve.

Yagamoth

2012-11-28 03:47:33 am

INTJ

I don't know enough about the game itself to fully understand what you are talking about, but..

Quote:

I am getting a good feel here of what you all must go through when you iron out your speedruns... Strangely, I am still having fun with this, and I am still motivated to improve.

I recently went through this phase as well (I'm mostly a lurker/improving-type and not much of a runner myself), and it's very interesting indeed ^^ - keep going Smiley

WunUnknownPlayer

Edit history:

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-12-05 07:54:01 am

2012-12-05 07:38:31 am

Entering a password starts the character at Jova (the first town). One way to save time then would be to intentionally game over at a known point, reset the console and enter a password at that point. The password itself takes into account items collected, current Level (not exact experience count, which is reset to zero anyway), and In-game Days (not specific in-game time, which resets to 0600 hours in the day given by the password). All of this can actually be calculated and made consistent through practice. In other words, I can guarantee I will have a certain amount of items and a certain level of experience on a certain in-game day when I will enact my Game Over. Therefore, the password is the same all the time.

In terms of a submission, would it be acceptable to use such a method when it would save 5 to 8 minutes?

Edit: Another thought... if the password is constant for a certain list of items and level at a certain in-game days, then why shouldn't the reset/password happen at the moment I achieve the conditions the create the password? [In this case in which I intend to use it, it would be at the moment I collect Dracula's Heart in Rover Mansion, thus returning Simon to Jova without having to walk all the way back.]

Entering a password starts the character at Jova (the first town). One way to save time then would be to intentionally game over at a known point, reset the console and enter a password at that point. The password itself takes into account items collected, current Level (not exact experience count, which is reset to zero anyway), and In-game Days (not specific in-game time, which resets to 0600 hours in the day given by the password). All of this can actually be calculated and made consistent through practice. In other words, I can guarantee I will have a certain amount of items and a certain level of experience on a certain in-game day when I will enact my Game Over. Therefore, the password is the same all the time.

In terms of a submission, would it be acceptable to use such a method when it would save 5 to 8 minutes?

Edit: Another thought... if the password is constant for a certain list of items and level at a certain in-game days, then why shouldn't the reset/password happen at the moment I achieve the conditions the create the password? [In this case in which I intend to use it, it would be at the moment I collect Dracula's Heart in Rover Mansion, thus returning Simon to Jova without having to walk all the way back.]

UraniumAnchor

2012-12-05 11:01:49 pm

Not a walrus

Yes, that would be either segmented or with resets, depending on precisely how you used it.

mike89

2012-12-05 11:12:11 pm

SEGA Junkie

I'd be very wary about using a method like that with no way of verifying what the password should actually be. I'm assuming the game displays the password on Game Over, though?

UraniumAnchor

2012-12-05 11:24:28 pm

Not a walrus

I'll see if I can poke Uyama over in here to give a firm ruling on when exactly timing would stop for a segment in that case.