Castlevania 2: Simon's Quest

2012-09-10 11:45:07 am

SGL Scrublord

Currently watching the supposed 39:58, and let me say three things. Insane. Heart. Luck. Madness inducing, he levels up to the big life bar before the Belasco Marsh and again in Mansion 5. Insanity (once you hit level one, monsters in the first part and mansion 1 no longer give you xp, I need to count his area two hearts to see just how crazy his luck was). I just realized I miss out on like 25 chances for a heart drop by floor dropping, so that explains why I need to grind a bit before the morning star (still saves time though). I like his method for not mysteriously dying on the ferry ride though. Waaat?! New holy water tech on the way to the morning star saves 6 seconds. Only takes one pack of free laurels...hrrrm (I think being able to tank the hyper-lizard screen is worth the 4 seconds saved). (Wait a tic...you get 4 laurels in one talk. Derp.) Looks solid, looks like I'll submit sub 40 only then if this is out there.

Damn. That heart luck...

2012-09-17 05:09:17 pm

finally, i finished it... here is that 100% vid in 1h05m13s. I used timing from that other site (i feel strange trying to even mention them in this forum), so it is a few seconds longer than what i supposed SDA timing would be... but enough talk... Have at it!

2012-09-18 08:28:46 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Do you plan on submitting?

2012-09-18 10:59:06 pm

SGL Scrublord

No, I need to beat this time first, sub 40 or bust!

2012-09-18 11:01:47 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Quote from Heidrage:

Do you plan on submitting?

This is for WunUnknownPlayer

Edit history:

WunUnknownPlayer: 2012-10-01 04:40:40 pm

2012-09-19 10:39:36 am

There is a lot of work to be done with that to really polish it... I wouldn't even waste anyone's time in submitting what I have, but as a start it isn't as bad as it seems... I need to work on the middle and late stages of the game... and I would think I can take a good chunk of time off it (thinking in the realm of 10 minutes even).. I need to see if I can learn the falling through floors glitch before I can make any attempt at a suitable run for submission. There are places where it would greatly improve time.

All that said, it is finding the time to grind it out and practice that I am having the most difficulty with at the moment... as evidenced by the vid I already posted (which was actually uploaded in early July and only public a few days ago)... Life has a bad habit of getting in my way... but if someone wants to take the reins from me I don't mind at all.

To answer the question more directly, I had not planned on submitting... however I do plan on improving this run to see how far I can take it... (sorry, I can be long-winded).

There is a lot of work to be done with that to really polish it... I wouldn't even waste anyone's time in submitting what I have, but as a start it isn't as bad as it seems... I need to work on the middle and late stages of the game... and I would think I can take a good chunk of time off it (thinking in the realm of 10 minutes even).. I need to see if I can learn the falling through floors glitch before I can make any attempt at a suitable run for submission. There are places where it would greatly improve time.

All that said, it is finding the time to grind it out and practice that I am having the most difficulty with at the moment... as evidenced by the vid I already posted (which was actually uploaded in early July and only public a few days ago)... Life has a bad habit of getting in my way... but if someone wants to take the reins from me I don't mind at all.

To answer the question more directly, I had not planned on submitting... however I do plan on improving this run to see how far I can take it... (sorry, I can be long-winded).

2012-09-19 10:55:03 am

Willing to teach you the impossible

You make me happy Smiley

2012-09-19 11:24:33 am

I looked at the TAS for the falling glitch (first used about 32 seconds in, so not hard to find or strip out). Using a little frame advancing, I can see what is happening a little better. Basically, he is whipping right at the moment the fall animation starts. The effect is that the game is processing both the fall animation (where Simon in naturally crouching) and the whip animation (where Simon is naturally standing). This causes the game to make Simon stand up during the fall and continue the whip action. This whip action does not complete until Simon is standing in the middle of the floor. Since there is no real floor at this position, Simon continues to fall; furthermore, since he is falling again, he returns to a crouch. This all happens in mere frames (13 frames from the moment the fall animation starts).

While this might be useful news for TAS CV2, it is bad news for RTA Speedrun because the trick is essentially a single frame trick, and therefore I am very unlikely to make this occur reliably (if at all). So, I will omit it from my 100% run and see where I go with it (with the full understanding that basically I am conceding a submission to someone who can reliably do this trick).

I looked at the TAS for the falling glitch (first used about 32 seconds in, so not hard to find or strip out). Using a little frame advancing, I can see what is happening a little better. Basically, he is whipping right at the moment the fall animation starts. The effect is that the game is processing both the fall animation (where Simon in naturally crouching) and the whip animation (where Simon is naturally standing). This causes the game to make Simon stand up during the fall and continue the whip action. This whip action does not complete until Simon is standing in the middle of the floor. Since there is no real floor at this position, Simon continues to fall; furthermore, since he is falling again, he returns to a crouch. This all happens in mere frames (13 frames from the moment the fall animation starts).

While this might be useful news for TAS CV2, it is bad news for RTA Speedrun because the trick is essentially a single frame trick, and therefore I am very unlikely to make this occur reliably (if at all). So, I will omit it from my 100% run and see where I go with it (with the full understanding that basically I am conceding a submission to someone who can reliably do this trick).

2012-09-19 01:49:19 pm

SGL Scrublord

The trick with the fall glitch is to only use in places where succeeding within 10-15 attempts will save time vs walking around, or trying it once in a spot to get a bonus drop once every couple of runs but assuming it won't happen when you want it to. Also, the more action on the screen (many sprites, sprites turning around with collision detection, etc) the larger the input window appears to be. Notable is the ease of dropping in the stair screens with skeletons above the cave to Rover Mansion (and by similar design the stairs above Gulash) and the difficulty of dropping in Aljiba and inside of Rover.

2012-09-21 11:07:24 am

Question: In a 100% run of this game, would it be permissible to forgo the Thorn Whip for the Chain Whip (and by extension the Chain Whip for the Morning Star), or would it be more correct to gather every single item in the game?

UraniumAnchor

2012-09-21 11:56:40 am

Not a walrus

100% Zero Mission never collects the Varia and just goes straight for the Gravity Suit (and it still shows 100% at the end), so I'm inclined to say yes.

2012-09-21 03:23:20 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Only the highest upgrade needs to be obtained so long as the highest upgrade includes all abilities of the lower tiers.

DK28

Edit history:

DK28: 2012-09-21 03:24:58 pm

2012-09-21 03:23:41 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Damn it Heid, I was in the middle of typing that!

Edit: @ WunUnknownPlayer, I really enjoyed that run though. I agree it's a bit rough, but a great start. I'm looking forward to the polished product. Also, the dialougue you put into the video was good too.

UraniumAnchor

2012-09-21 03:28:02 pm

Not a walrus

Heidman's posting speedruns are better than yours, apparently.

2012-09-21 03:30:49 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

The list continues. So I speedrun games, my career, court, tests, school, eating, forum posts... what else?

2012-09-21 05:57:59 pm

I have been thinking hard on this... I am not sure what kind of heart luck and speed I will need to pull of this new path in the first third of the game... Basically instead of getting the Thorn Whip, I will only get the White Crystal and then make a beeline for Veros for the Dagger and Chain Whip, then pray I can play fast enough to get from there to the first door in Aljiba (and purchase Garlic) before second nightfall.

I am hoping to stream some practice runs at this new route segment tonight (please don't hold me to the streaming part of that).

DK28

2012-09-21 06:29:41 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

That's cold UA, that's cold.. Wink

Just cause I haven't had a run posted in while... I'm working on it.

Keep it up Heid. Life doesn't play fair, stay ahead.

And streaming is the most awesomest thing you can do WunUnknown. thumbsup

UraniumAnchor

2012-09-21 06:43:59 pm

Not a walrus

I said posting speedruns, not speedrun posting! Subtle but important difference.

I'm sure you're hard at work the latter. Wink

2012-09-22 08:04:24 am

SGL Scrublord

Wun, remember you need holy water for the chain whip Sad

2012-09-22 04:41:00 pm

I do remember... So I did a quick test and I was able to farm in Jova as in my vid, but instead of going to the door for the Thorn Whip, I end the night at the door where the Holy Water is. Quick in and out resets the crystal man for the White Crystal, then a comfortable run to Veros (no hurry, but still sped up for other reasons) to buy the Dagger and Chain Whip... and I was successful. However, the next leg of the trip (from Veros, up Dabi's Path to Aljiba) has an issue... as in I need another coronary injection in order to afford the Garlic for the Silver Knife (and later the Silk Bag). I got to Aljiba during the day (about 1:30 left in game-time until nightfall) with only 36 Hearts... So the route in terms of time is sound...

It's all in the math... I need 300 hearts after buying the Holy Water in order to get White Crystal, Dagger, Chain Whip and Garlic... ... The bad news is 256 is the limit you can have at any one time... The good news is that I spend 50 immediately as the day starts (for the White Crystal)... So I really only have to find 250 hearts from that point.. The bad news is that the drop rate needs to be favorably high in order for me to max out hearts on the night farming and therefore give the least hearts needed at 44. As far as I can tell, there is no luck involved... I can't prove it, but my best guess is the heart drops are based on a timer of some sort, as I have gotten a good string going once I get into a rhythm...

More testing to follow... if all goes well, I will be able to set up my equipment for streaming tonight... (hopefully)...

I do remember... So I did a quick test and I was able to farm in Jova as in my vid, but instead of going to the door for the Thorn Whip, I end the night at the door where the Holy Water is. Quick in and out resets the crystal man for the White Crystal, then a comfortable run to Veros (no hurry, but still sped up for other reasons) to buy the Dagger and Chain Whip... and I was successful. However, the next leg of the trip (from Veros, up Dabi's Path to Aljiba) has an issue... as in I need another coronary injection in order to afford the Garlic for the Silver Knife (and later the Silk Bag). I got to Aljiba during the day (about 1:30 left in game-time until nightfall) with only 36 Hearts... So the route in terms of time is sound...

It's all in the math... I need 300 hearts after buying the Holy Water in order to get White Crystal, Dagger, Chain Whip and Garlic... ... The bad news is 256 is the limit you can have at any one time... The good news is that I spend 50 immediately as the day starts (for the White Crystal)... So I really only have to find 250 hearts from that point.. The bad news is that the drop rate needs to be favorably high in order for me to max out hearts on the night farming and therefore give the least hearts needed at 44. As far as I can tell, there is no luck involved... I can't prove it, but my best guess is the heart drops are based on a timer of some sort, as I have gotten a good string going once I get into a rhythm...

More testing to follow... if all goes well, I will be able to set up my equipment for streaming tonight... (hopefully)...

2012-09-22 10:43:45 pm

SGL Scrublord

Hmmm, if you need to ensure heart farming, maybe find a way to mix in a mansion. With the chain whip, you can one shot all the enemies in either one, and grind while the day/night cycle is frozen.

More stream coming next week. I have a craving for cherry pop and souls.

2012-09-24 09:12:27 am

The farming I would need to do includes the hearts necessary for the Chain Whip, so grinding in Berkeley is out. I did some preliminary testing (and captured it on stream) where I was able to successfully start a game and ultimately buy the Garlic at the end of Day 1 (if you consider the first 1/2 day when you start as Day 0). I need to review it to see what kind of heart drop rate I was able to achieve.

Also, I am testing to see if maybe I can squeeze the Sacred Flame into that leg of the run. If I can, it will provide the opportunity for up to 12 more hearts than previously accounted for.