Capture Device Compendium (Tell me about your capture device!)

2014-01-27 10:43:21 pm

Professional Second Banana

Quote from Sir VG:

Device make and model: AVerTV HD DVR C027 (aka Avermedia C027)
Inputs: HDMI, Component, S-Video, and Composite (The last three via a converter cable into an alternate HDMI plugin)
Type: PCI-e Internal Capture Card

Price: About $100.
Compatibility: Company states works with - 480i / 480p / 576i / 576p / 720p / 1080i (50/60 Hz)
240p-capable: Does not work with 240p. (Tested on a PS1 game played on a PS2 using component cables.) Older systems via composite/S-Video cables work fine.
Availibility: USA (I got mine from Amazon), but should be available worldwide.
Issues: Component input picks up audio from both Component and Composite audio connections simultaneously. HDMI audio isn't the best (but this could be my system)
Recommend: Yes
Comments: Manufacturer states it does not work with Windows Media Center. Device works fine with XSplit and VirtualDub.

Trying this card out, but I'm only seeing widescreen resolution options in AmarecTV. Is there a trick I need to do to allow 640x480 and other 4:3 resolutions?

[quote="Sir VG"]Device make and model: AVerTV HD DVR C027 (aka Avermedia C027)
Inputs: HDMI, Component, S-Video, and Composite (The last three via a converter cable into an alternate HDMI plugin)
Type: PCI-e Internal Capture Card

Price: About $100.
Compatibility: Company states works with - 480i / 480p / 576i / 576p / 720p / 1080i (50/60 Hz)
240p-capable: Does not work with 240p. (Tested on a PS1 game played on a PS2 using component cables.) Older systems via composite/S-Video cables work fine.
Availibility: USA (I got mine from Amazon), but should be available worldwide.
Issues: Component input picks up audio from both Component and Composite audio connections simultaneously. HDMI audio isn't the best (but this could be my system)
Recommend: Yes
Comments: Manufacturer states it does not work with Windows Media Center. Device works fine with XSplit and VirtualDub.[/quote]
Trying this card out, but I'm only seeing widescreen resolution options in AmarecTV.  Is there a trick I need to do to allow 640x480 and other 4:3 resolutions?

[img]http://i.imgur.com/pttYhos.png[/img]

ahuynh

2014-01-27 11:15:21 pm

Feed the capture card a source that is actually 640x480 in resolution and Amarec will give the 640x480 option.

puwexil

2014-01-27 11:31:20 pm

Professional Second Banana

Source is my SNES, which is native 4:3.

Also, I have the card's HDMI>Composite+S-Video adapter connected to an HDMI extension cable since my PC is on the other side of my desk from my consoles/TV - do you think that could be a problem?

__sdfg

2014-01-27 11:46:25 pm

D:

720x480 is a common standard-def capture resolution. All of the SD cards I've owned have supported it. You should be able to capture at 720x480 and resize.

My C027 doesn't offer 640 on the standard-def inputs, either.

Omnigamer

2014-01-27 11:58:48 pm

All the things

You can capture SNES/NES/etc with 740x480 setting. It will have some bars on the side depending on the actual source, but it is perfectly compatible.

ahuynh

Edit history:

ahuynh: 2014-01-28 12:10:54 am

2014-01-28 12:04:00 am

The SNES doesn't send a 640x480 signal but a 720x480 signal(well technically 720x240). The only time I've ever seen a 640x480 signal being sent from a console is from my PS3.

puwexil

2014-01-28 12:18:07 am

Professional Second Banana

Quote from Omnigamer:

You can capture SNES/NES/etc with 740x480 setting. It will have some bars on the side depending on the actual source, but it is perfectly compatible.

The recording test I did looked like it stretched the video to 16:9 resolution rather than just adding side bars. It doesn't look bad, just different from basically every other SD video I've downloaded from the site; so if there's something I can tweak in Amarec (which I have set to 4:3 or 640x480 wherever given a choice) to make it capture in 4:3 with side bars I can crop out, or something I can do in Anri-chan or Yua to adjust the resolution of the encode, that would be nice.

C027:

Dazzle DVC100:

__sdfg

Edit history:

__sdfg: 2014-01-28 12:38:46 am

__sdfg: 2014-01-28 12:38:26 am

2014-01-28 12:27:03 am

D:

Go to "Graph 2(Preview)" in the settings and change the Aspect Ratio to 4:3.

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry, you're also asking about recording. Your recordings will be 720x480. Yua will resize them to the proper resolution for you during encoding if you set the Aspect ratio to Standard. The setting I indicated above will make Amarec scale the preview window for your stream. It also seems to be necessary to specify the aspect ratio even if you use Amarec Live rather than screen capture (I streamed at the wrong aspect ratio for quite a while because I assumed setting a 4:3 resolution in the Live tab was all I needed to do >_>).

oasiz

Edit history:

oasiz: 2014-01-28 07:34:32 am

oasiz: 2014-01-28 03:53:04 am

oasiz: 2014-01-28 03:50:44 am

oasiz: 2014-01-28 03:49:54 am

oasiz: 2014-01-28 03:49:38 am

2014-01-28 03:49:21 am

Iha paska

Device make and model: Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI
Inputs: composite / s-video / component / RGB (d-sub connector) / HDMI & DVI
Type: Capture card
Price: $250
Compatibility: Supports even more obscure PAL 288p lowres trough YPbPr and RGB and goes up to 1080p60 input. Supports a ton of formats in general.
240p-capable: Yes and 288p
Availibility: Sold in japan (Solarisjapan is one store)
Issues: Has some very slight bleed with green/red when using 240p/288p. can be mostly removed with post-processing.
Recommend: If you can afford, a definite yes.
Comments: Much better than Blackmagic, has automated resolution detection and supports almost every format out there, ranging from lowres PAL/NTSC retro stuff to higher end 1080p at 60fps. Still doesn't do full 1:1 RGB color so you will lose some color information but this is to be expected of any capture card that is under $500-700. Also a lower end variant exists.

Device make and model: Blackmagic intensity pro
Inputs: composite / s-video (two RCA for components iirc) / component / HDMI & DVI
Type: Capture card
Price: ~$100 (used), ~$200 new
Compatibility: Most common SD/HD formats, up to 720p60 or 1080p30
240p-capable: no
Availibility: Still sold
Issues: Has pretty bad drivers and the lack of automatic resolution correction really hurts when livestreaming. Never got the composite/SD side working and ended up using it mostly trough a scaler with permanent 720p60 input.
Recommend: Unless you get it cheap & used and use it as a "fixed input format" card, nope.
Comments: Has drivers for osx/window/linux. Support is not the best but the software is decent and aims for "amateur pro" without too much extra fluff.

While this is not a capture card, I personally think that listing scalers would be useful as well since those would allow one to use a cheap HDMI input with say.. a laptop and use a scaler to connect things in. Especially older PCs. xrgb mini being one used at agdq, pretty damn useful devices for painless multi-system setups, especially at marathons.

Device make and model: Cypress CP-255I
Inputs: composite / s-video / component / HDMI & DVI / d-sub (rgb)
Type: Scaler (Scales to HDMI)
Price: $400
Compatibility: Supports pretty much everything from DOS VGA (72Hz, etc..) up to 1080p60 as input and outputs to all common formats from SD NTSC/PAL up to 1080p60 (and interlaced HD output as well)
240p-capable: No
Availibility: Cypress resellers
Issues: Issues with HDCP when using HDMI inputs. Possibly can be worked around with some devices that drop it. Otherwise you will end up with chroma noise when the HDCP handshake fails. Sometimes needs manual use of auto-adjust when using old PCs to avoid slight cropping.
Recommend: If you need a really reliable scaler that supports almost everything, go for this one. Price is steep but it works with almost everything aside from the HDMI/HDCP issue that was mentioned.
Comments: Has flexible settings and even supports remote control over a serial cable, making potential marathon setups easier.
De-interlace is somewhat delta-aware bob where moving objects (sprites etc..) tend to bob while static BG stays solid. Works pretty well.

[u]Device make and model[/u]: Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI
[u]Inputs[/u]: composite / s-video / component / RGB (d-sub connector) / HDMI & DVI
[u]Type[/u]: Capture card
[u]Price[/u]: $250
[u]Compatibility[/u]: Supports even more obscure PAL 288p lowres trough YPbPr and RGB and goes up to 1080p60 input. Supports a ton of formats in general. 
[u]240p-capable[/u]: Yes and 288p
[u]Availibility[/u]: Sold in japan (Solarisjapan is one store)
[u]Issues[/u]: Has some very slight bleed with green/red when using 240p/288p. can be mostly removed with post-processing.
[u]Recommend[/u]: If you can afford, a definite yes.
[u]Comments[/u]: Much better than Blackmagic, has automated resolution detection and supports almost every format out there, ranging from lowres PAL/NTSC retro stuff to higher end 1080p at 60fps. Still doesn't do full 1:1 RGB color so you will lose some color information but this is to be expected of any capture card that is under $500-700. Also a lower end variant exists.

[u]Device make and model[/u]: Blackmagic intensity pro
[u]Inputs[/u]: composite / s-video (two RCA for components iirc) / component / HDMI & DVI
[u]Type[/u]: Capture card
[u]Price[/u]: ~$100 (used), ~$200 new
[u]Compatibility[/u]: Most common SD/HD formats, up to 720p60 or 1080p30
[u]240p-capable[/u]: no
[u]Availibility[/u]: Still sold
[u]Issues[/u]: Has pretty bad drivers and the lack of automatic resolution correction really hurts when livestreaming. Never got the composite/SD side working and ended up using it mostly trough a scaler with permanent 720p60 input.
[u]Recommend[/u]: Unless you get it cheap & used and use it as a "fixed input format" card, nope.
[u]Comments[/u]: Has drivers for osx/window/linux. Support is not the best but the software is decent and aims for "amateur pro" without too much extra fluff.

While this is not a capture card, I personally think that listing scalers would be useful as well since those would allow one to use a cheap HDMI input with say.. a laptop and use a scaler to connect things in. Especially older PCs. xrgb mini being one used at agdq, pretty damn useful devices for painless multi-system setups, especially at marathons.

[u]Device make and model[/u]: Cypress CP-255I
[u]Inputs[/u]: composite / s-video / component / HDMI & DVI / d-sub (rgb)
[u]Type[/u]: Scaler (Scales to HDMI)
[u]Price[/u]: $400
[u]Compatibility[/u]: Supports pretty much everything from DOS VGA (72Hz, etc..) up to 1080p60 as input and outputs to all common formats from SD NTSC/PAL up to 1080p60 (and interlaced HD output as well)
[u]240p-capable[/u]: No
[u]Availibility[/u]: Cypress resellers
[u]Issues[/u]: Issues with HDCP when using HDMI inputs. Possibly can be worked around with some devices that drop it. Otherwise you will end up with chroma noise when the HDCP handshake fails. Sometimes needs manual use of auto-adjust when using old PCs to avoid slight cropping.
[u]Recommend[/u]: If you need a really reliable scaler that supports almost everything, go for this one. Price is steep but it works with almost everything aside from the HDMI/HDCP issue that was mentioned.
[u]Comments[/u]: Has flexible settings and even supports remote control over a serial cable, making potential marathon setups easier.
De-interlace is somewhat delta-aware bob where moving objects (sprites etc..) tend to bob while static BG stays solid. Works pretty well.

TheThrillness

2014-01-28 04:52:29 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Advertising alert! Wink

I started up a blog dedicated to video games and hardware (mostly reviews). For the reviews, it's going to specifically be used to talk about game play capturing (as most reviews I read on the internet don't cover this subject specifically).

Right now I only have two reviews up (Aver C027 and Intensity Pro) but many others will be included in the next week or so (Dazzle, EzCAP, PEXHDCAP/SC-500N1, SC-512).

Most interestingly for people will be a proper report on lossless 4:2:2 software capture at 1080p60 and whether this is possible for most people.

http://www.thethrillness.com

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2014-01-28 07:57:47 pm

CMiller: 2014-01-28 07:57:36 pm

2014-01-28 07:53:54 pm

Quote from TheThrillness:

Most interestingly for people will be a proper report on lossless 4:2:2 software capture at 1080p60 and whether this is possible for most people.

Lossless? Probably not. I have no issue capturing 1080p60 on a single 7200RPM hard drive using Prores 422HQ though. It works out to around 300Mbit/sec. Fine for SATA / eSATA but very close to the limit for USB 2. Firewire 800 should be ok. If you have an SSD I imagine no problems at all except capacity.

TheThrillness

2014-01-29 05:01:26 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote from CMiller:

Lossless? Probably not.

I just did the testing and let me just say, people are going to be VERY surprised at the findings.

Going to do this properly so I'll post the "first impression" report either tomorrow or the next again day. I'm also working with another friend who will be conducting his own tests so it can look for any similarities or differences.

presjpolk

2014-01-29 05:19:21 am

HELLO!

To do lossless at that level you're going to need a good dedicated RAID. Most likely an external box that has a bunch of drives in it and connects with something like Thunderbolt.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-02-04 05:59:27 pm

2014-01-29 12:22:16 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/1080p60-lossless-capture.html

Hopefully I covered everything.

CMiller

2014-01-29 03:03:10 pm

Again, in my opinion lossless is insane and not worth spending money to hit it as a target. There's plenty of lossy codecs that function fine, even in the world of video post production where quality is everything. Your datarates work out to around 6.2 GB/min. That's 186 gigs every 30 minutes. If you've got the drive space, that's fine, but it's just simply more economical with no drawback at all to capture lossy.

presjpolk

2014-01-29 03:28:19 pm

HELLO!

Yup, huge size and data rate requirements. Just not practical for a lot of runners.

But at the same time it's valuable to have that ground work done.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-01-30 02:38:14 pm

2014-01-29 04:09:48 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Quote from CMiller:

Your datarates work out to around 6.2 GB/min

Don't forget, the data rates I posted are absolute peak values. When I posted 105 MB/s with x264vfw, usually it is around 70 MB/s.

You are right though, lossless capture at this sort of resolution and frame rate is crazy and there is no need for it. I just wanted to see if it could be done.

I did actually try the "Convert to YUV 4:2:0 option" in x264vfw and it shaved 15 MB/s from the peak YUY2 bit rate. Both me and my friend have looked at YV12 vs YUY2 captures on this card and neither of us can tell a difference between them. Both PSNR and SSIM calculations agree and give the YV12 a similarity index of 99.9946% (it's basically impossible to tell the difference).

I should actually start using QP values in x264vfw (maybe a QP of 5 or so?) and see how much that lowers the data rate.

Edit: oasiz, about the issue of color bleed, did you use the Type-C option and still having issues?

I also put up my own review of the SC-512 here: http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/micomsoft-sc-512n1-ldvi-capture-card.html

[quote="CMiller"]Your datarates work out to around 6.2 GB/min[/quote]

Don't forget, the data rates I posted are absolute peak values. When I posted 105 MB/s with x264vfw, usually it is around 70 MB/s.

You are right though, lossless capture at this sort of resolution and frame rate is crazy and there is no need for it. I just wanted to see if it could be done.

I did actually try the "Convert to YUV 4:2:0 option" in x264vfw and it shaved 15 MB/s from the peak YUY2 bit rate. Both me and my friend have looked at YV12 vs YUY2 captures on this card and neither of us can tell a difference between them. Both PSNR and SSIM calculations agree and give the YV12 a similarity index of 99.9946% (it's basically impossible to tell the difference).

I should actually start using QP values in x264vfw (maybe a QP of 5 or so?) and see how much that lowers the data rate.

Edit: oasiz, about the issue of color bleed, did you use the Type-C option and still having issues?

I also put up my own review of the SC-512 here: http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/01/micomsoft-sc-512n1-ldvi-capture-card.html

oasiz

2014-02-04 12:16:45 am

Iha paska

Quote from TheThrillness:

Edit: oasiz, about the issue of color bleed, did you use the Type-C option and still having issues?

Yup, still is there. For some reason it seems to do nothing at times.
Also I have noticed that you need to turn sharpness in to maximum (has actually nothing to do with sharpness) and it will get rid of noise/jailbars quite a bit with the cost of slight pixel clarity loss.
You can use the VHS filter in virtualdub http://neuron2.net/flaxen/flaxen.html to shift I+Q horizontally, which fixes it quite a bit.

Edenal

Edit history:

Edenal: 2014-02-04 02:04:24 am

2014-02-04 02:01:26 am

Hockey enthusiast

I tested some equipment yesterday.

http://www.twitch.tv/edenalsda/b/500545531

Up until the ~19 minute mark I use this scaler: Cypress T. CM-348ST http://www.cypeurope.com/store/store/app/product/CM-348ST
After that I switch to: Cypress T. CM-393 http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=177 (With some assistance of KISS DP-558 DVD recorder to assist with PAL60, since the scaler does not support that format)

Everything is captured with PEXHDCAP

Edit: Ill update the post with all specs for the scalers later.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-02-09 01:17:24 am

2014-02-09 01:16:12 am

thethrillness.blogspot.com

Cody, I just wrote an article detailing 1080p60 capture over USB 2. I decided not to go over a bit rate of 200 Mb/s (as it seems most people agree that 25-30 MB/s is the hard drive writing speed max).

http://www.thethrillness.com/2014/02/1080p60-capture-over-usb-2.html

I have to say, I never thought good quality 1080p60 over USB 2 would be a thing until I tried it (in fact it's nearly lossless!).

NME

2014-03-19 02:01:14 pm

Has anyone tried the Elgato Game Capture HD for (S)NES capture since the 1.2.1 update? Even better, have you tried with and without the composite cable adapter?

No where on the Elgato site does it specify support for 240p, but it does say that 480i and 240i are supported and specifies that SNES and NES (amongst other retro consoles) are now supported. Of course, "support" and streaming/recording for submission may be two very different things.

More info on Elgato's support for retro consoles here: http://help.elgato.com/customer/portal/articles/1020266-what-game-consoles-can-work-with-elgato-game-capture-hd-

DeMoNFLiP84

2014-03-19 02:19:15 pm

A Serious Noob

Quote from NME:

Has anyone tried the Elgato Game Capture HD for (S)NES capture since the 1.2.1 update? Even better, have you tried with and without the composite cable adapter?

No where on the Elgato site does it specify support for 240p, but it does say that 480i and 240i are supported and specifies that SNES and NES (amongst other retro consoles) are now supported. Of course, "support" and streaming/recording for submission may be two very different things.

More info on Elgato's support for retro consoles here: http://help.elgato.com/customer/portal/articles/1020266-what-game-consoles-can-work-with-elgato-game-capture-hd-

I use the Elgato to record and stream my SNES, N64, NGC, PS2, & Wii U running on the newest update. I use with the composite cable adapter along with the composite switcher for my systems. Video records in 480i and it streams fine for me. Only issue I have with it is that I cannot sync wsplit with my video on stream due to the elgato's 1.5 second delay while recording.

[quote="NME"]Has anyone tried the Elgato Game Capture HD for (S)NES capture since the 1.2.1 update? Even better, have you tried with and without the composite cable adapter?

No where on the Elgato site does it specify support for 240p, but it does say that 480i and 240i are supported and specifies that SNES and NES (amongst other retro consoles) are now supported. Of course, "support" and streaming/recording for submission may be two very different things.

More info on Elgato's support for retro consoles here: http://help.elgato.com/customer/portal/articles/1020266-what-game-consoles-can-work-with-elgato-game-capture-hd-[/quote]
I use the Elgato to record and stream my SNES, N64, NGC, PS2, & Wii U running on the newest update. I use with the composite cable adapter along with the composite switcher for my systems. Video records in 480i and it streams fine for me. Only issue I have with it is that I cannot sync wsplit with my video on stream due to the elgato's 1.5 second delay while recording.

blizzz

2014-03-19 05:12:40 pm

Quote from NME:

Has anyone tried the Elgato Game Capture HD for (S)NES capture since the 1.2.1 update? Even better, have you tried with and without the composite cable adapter?

I tried it back in December and it worked, kinda. The recording was fine, but Yua messed up the framerate. Captured without the SD adapter via composite. Here's the old thread.

TheThrillness

Edit history:

TheThrillness: 2014-03-19 10:27:01 pm

2014-03-19 10:26:43 pm

thethrillness.blogspot.com

I think SD recording is finally fixed for that device: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/quality_test__super_godzilla_super_nintendo.html

Unless Molotov used the same trick that blizzz did? If you check Molotov encodes they are proper 59.94. I can't get that with blizzz old Mario captures directly (choosing F1 gives me like a 20 fps video) in MediaInfo.

NME

2014-03-20 06:46:18 am

Quote from DeMoNFLiP84:

Only issue I have with it is that I cannot sync wsplit with my video on stream due to the elgato's 1.5 second delay while recording.

Kind of a big deal, no?

Also, does that mean you are playing on a TV? That's not a workable set up for me, so if we're talking a delay to the PC, then this sounds like a no-go for me.