Breath Of Fire: Dragon Quarter

2006-03-26 01:31:57 pm

Exactly why isn't there a single run for this game yet? It's short, interesting to watch, all cutscenes and random battles are skipable, and with smart D-Drive use, all the longest boss battles can be beaten in a single turn. Is it because people don't know how SOL abuse without making it repetitive or making it take long amounts of time or what gives?

Thread title:

spineshark

2006-03-26 06:03:45 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Enhasa has mentioned, multiple times, that he has thought about (if not worked on) this run. He mentioned some repeating boss encounter (the final battle, of course) as his main hindrance, though having not played the game, I don't know what it is...I'm just a poor, cheap person right now, and I don't have a PS2 =(

Hitaro

2006-03-26 06:20:40 pm

Beacause nobody has done a run and submitted it here.

Gorash

2006-03-27 12:24:55 pm

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Partly my fault.

I started a translation of the report on ultimaheaven, but Enhasa told me to take it easy, so I'll wait until new semester starts, then I'll get a lot more in touch with japanese.

Also Enhasa tried a few test runs, and always ran out of D-Counter somewhere in the regents fights. Once all this is sorted out, I'm sure he'll do it.

AnotherGamer

2006-03-27 12:43:08 pm

Yay. With everyone leveled to around 30 in the beginning with party exp, I managed a bit over an hour without really trying too hard and got to around 99.85% or so by the end, so any estimate how fast it can be done from scratch?

Gorash

2006-03-27 07:20:54 pm

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1h14min is the ultimagarden record.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-03-28 01:33:29 am

2006-03-27 08:27:50 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I suppose I better respond to this. First thing I better say is that everything said below is about one retry, i.e. no SOL (aka death) abuse. I know you could Zeno loop for great justice, but that is cheap. Why not do a retry game (this will probably happen as another mode later), or use the ultimate trick? Maybe you are already talking about that.

Yes, it would be a ridiculously great run to watch. And also, if you see this thread, you can see the 1:14 Gorash mentioned. Honestly, it's definitely the 2nd most amazing time on the entire list for me. You can get to the translation from this thread.

I tried just blazing through, using D-Dive when necessary, but ran out of D-counter on Elyon. I will do this eventually SS, as I think it's possible to do well. It's going to involve some harvesting of 7th Sense or Power Boost though.

I do have a question for you, AnotherGamer. Since you can see your clear time for timing, do you know exactly where the game timer counts? Is it everywhere, because that's what I remember. Yet, the D-Ratio timer must not count everywhere, or else Kokon Horay would be a killer. My intuition is that it doesn't count in the Ant Colony. I don't know about menus. I guess I could just test all of this by myself, but I'm kinda busy right now and maybe you know.

Oh, one more thing. I just created a gamefaqs account (<48 hours lol, so restricted...), and I noticed from the highest karma list you are some kind of hotshot poster there! Wink

4th on all of gamefaqs, geez. I also recognized Holystar and HeroOfTheDay in my 5 second glance. So, which boards do you frequent? Because I wouldn't have noticed you, except for this thread right here.

Gorash: when does your new semester start? Tongue

Edit: changed "save abuse" to "death abuse."

I suppose I better respond to this. First thing I better say is that everything said below is about [i]one retry[/i], i.e. [b]no[/b] SOL (aka death) abuse. I know you could Zeno loop for great justice, but that is cheap. Why not do a retry game (this will probably happen as another mode later), or use the [url=http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/breath_of_fire_v_tips.txt]ultimate trick[/url]? Maybe you are already talking about that.

Yes, it would be a ridiculously great run to watch. And also, if you see [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=main;action=display;num=1136789888]this thread[/url], you can see the 1:14 Gorash mentioned. Honestly, it's definitely the 2nd most amazing time on the entire list for me. You can get to the translation from [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=consoles_newer;action=display;num=1139452085;start=0#0]this thread[/url].

I tried just blazing through, using D-Dive when necessary, but ran out of D-counter on Elyon. I will do this eventually SS, as I think it's possible to do well. It's going to involve some harvesting of 7th Sense or Power Boost though.

I do have a question for you, AnotherGamer. Since you can see your clear time for timing, do you know exactly where the game timer counts? Is it everywhere, because that's what I remember. Yet, the D-Ratio timer must not count everywhere, or else Kokon Horay would be a killer. My intuition is that it doesn't count in the Ant Colony. I don't know about menus. I guess I could just test all of this by myself, but I'm kinda busy right now and maybe you know.

Oh, one more thing. I [i]just[/i] created a gamefaqs account (<48 hours lol, so restricted...), and I noticed from the highest karma list you are some kind of hotshot poster there! ;) 4th on all of gamefaqs, geez. I also recognized Holystar and HeroOfTheDay in my 5 second glance. So, which boards do you frequent? Because I wouldn't have noticed you, except for this thread right here.

Gorash: when does your new semester start? :P

Edit: changed "save abuse" to "death abuse."

AnotherGamer

2006-03-28 12:02:47 am

As for the first question...well, I don't really know how accurate the timer is nor do I know for sure if I even counted my time right based on it, as I haven't really looked into how it works. I'd say it's reasonably accurate to say at least...

As for the second point, thanks for noticing, and I don't really post that much elsewhere, more into the likes of AIM, IRC and whatnot.

Enhasa

2006-03-28 01:36:32 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I should have phrased my question better: which games on gamefaqs do you post in the board for the game? Oh, and DavidK5 mentioned you btw, so I'm guessing BoF3 at the least. Convince him to create a thread here and submit to SDA, mmkay?

Oh and for me, here and occasionally bisqwit's are the only places I post.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-03-28 07:18:39 am

2006-03-28 07:17:56 am

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Well, my semester starts in mid April, but it seems there's enough interest. I don't promise anything, but if someone's waiting for it's much more fun to do the work.

EDIT:
I didn't even see the thread you linked. Someone posted the 0.2 translation here? What a small internet it is...

Enhasa

2006-03-28 07:31:31 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Well, I was always waiting for it then. Tongue

I just said not to strain yourself. I won't be able to work on it until summer at the earliest I think, to give you an indication.

Ya, actually I posted that thread instead of just linking to the file because I thought you'd find it funny. Wink

Gorash

2006-03-28 09:02:37 am

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You bet I found it funny.

Btw.: I've found out what's meant with "Hachioh" a while ago: The little maggots that drop onto your head, die on first strike, and drop you heal kits.

Enhasa

2006-03-29 06:31:23 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hychees! I love hychees!

Although, the first time one ever dropped down in front of me, it scared the living fuck outta me, lol. I'm sure this is not an exclusive experience.

Gorash

2006-03-29 03:25:26 pm

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Not the little ones, but when I encountered the first big one in bio labs. I got creamed there more than once misjudging enemies, so I bombed him into oblivion. Good thing they are resistant to swords and weak to magic and not vice versa, or I' might've never killed him.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-03-31 02:57:39 pm

2006-03-31 02:55:27 pm

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Third segment.

I also cleaned up some of the previous wordings.

Enhasa, if you can make out what "grandpadam" or "barakete" is, please tell me.

Enhasa

2006-03-31 08:23:48 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

From context, grandpadam is definitely G-Flare or some kind of magic circle in general. I think barakete is Power Boost.

I skimmed through it, and I am extremely impressed. I agree with "ingenius," I marvel at all the necessary reseting, and I think that, hypothetically, if this were on SDA, it would be clearly the best RPG run on the site by far.

Gorash

2006-04-01 02:31:28 am

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The game just screams "speedrun me".

G-Flare seems to be right. I'll play again tomorrow and verify that and Jamadayo!.

About the barake(te), I was stupid, the "te" isn't part of it but a grammar particle. Power Boost is called "buustopawaa" elsewhere.

Enhasa

2006-04-04 10:00:40 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

The game just screams "speedrun me".

It really does, much more than any RPG I think ever created. Although the best part is, most people are still convinced that it is impossible to beat the game on first retry, or that Capcom intentionally put in SOL looping so that people would be able to finish the game. It was funny seeing all the reviews say things like that.

The part where you can just D-Dash without penalty would look ridiculously great in particular. And in a clear game run, D-Dash would happen most of the time. Overall, I don't know how the video would look to someone who hasn't played before, but it would truly impress any of the people who said the game was too difficult.

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-04-05 02:56:19 am

2006-04-04 06:37:36 pm

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Zeno is dead

A rather large segment, will be hard to run.
I figured out some more translations (Slice, Vert Slash, Last Resort, Aid Kit), check them at the bottom.

The Asimov battle is a lot of guesswork, he reduced speech to keywords here, which says a lot in a language that is already build to omit everything deducible from context.

On a side note:
If I wouldn't have done so much research about that game, I'd still think it's unbeatable first time through. It's basically a game that's designed for limited god mode. I wonder how Quake would look if you had limited god mode.

EDIT:
I just saw on ultimagarden that the time has been improved to 1h10min.

Atlas

2006-04-05 06:09:40 am

`

Quote:

It really does, much more than any RPG I think ever created. Although the best part is, most people are still convinced that it is impossible to beat the game on first retry, or that Capcom intentionally put in SOL looping so that people would be able to finish the game. It was funny seeing all the reviews say things like that.

The part where you can just D-Dash without penalty would look ridiculously great in particular. And in a clear game run, D-Dash would happen most of the time. Overall, I don't know how the video would look to someone who hasn't played before, but it would truly impress any of the people who said the game was too difficult.

I always thought it was way hard.

Not sure how the hell I ever beat it *shrug*

I would be amazed if someone could run this exceptionally fast.

Enhasa

2006-04-05 07:35:21 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Where did you see the 1:10? I looked around and didn't see it anywhere.

First thing, by Slice and Vert Slash being a combo, do you mean an actual combo or just the regular bonuses? Because Slice -> Vert Slash isn't anything special, but Side Slash -> Vert Slash becomes X Slash. You wouldn't be able to do Deathbringer after that, so I don't think you're talking about X Slash.

Well I read this and I'm pretty sure you're right about "jamadayo." Also, Outta My Way is very useful to group people together like he's doing.

Actually, one thing I don't understand is: he really uses D-Breath (not Vortex, Hurricane, Twister) all the time? I thought most people rarely used that, since I think it's inefficient? It's good for knocking out shields and triggering Dover's dragon protection, and you obviously need it at the end, but I don't think I used it otherwise.

He does really seem to use it a lot though; maybe this is key. Although it kind of frightens me because it would take a lot of skill to know exactly how long to hold onto circle, right?

Hmm, I ignored the Kanaphages myself. I wonder what he'll use the money for.

Ha, he bought Antenna! I did too! (Although I could just barely afford this without Kanaphages, so the money must be needed later.) I thought I was all clever and everything, so I'm glad to see that it was apparently the correct move. I mean, I don't think anyone really gets this weapon while not playing for speed.

I remember very clearly that the Frozen Road danger room had Beaks (the ground guys) and Aggrossers (the flying guys). I'm not sure which is kaeru and which is servant.

Hmm, my ranger battle was to kill everyone first turn with Ryu. Letting them get closer together, next to you, while you let Nina and Lin die, seems more efficient in terms of D-Counter. But, I don't know how you would get the gunner and the captain near everyone else.

What he does for this set of fights is different than the strategy I was thinking of, which would be to get Fragball from the Frozen Road, then use it against Asimov and later Jezuit (the regent with Shadowwalk, the invisible move).

I wish I'd taken notes so I could compare D-Counter and levels and such. Oh well. I don't even know if SDA existed at the time. Tongue

Where did you see the 1:10? I looked around and didn't see it anywhere.

First thing, by Slice and Vert Slash being a combo, do you mean an actual combo or just the regular bonuses? Because Slice -> Vert Slash isn't anything special, but Side Slash -> Vert Slash becomes X Slash. You wouldn't be able to do Deathbringer after that, so I don't think you're talking about X Slash.

Well I read this and I'm pretty sure you're right about "jamadayo." Also, Outta My Way is very useful to group people together like he's doing.

Actually, one thing I don't understand is: he really uses D-Breath (not Vortex, Hurricane, Twister) all the time? I thought most people rarely used that, since I think it's inefficient? It's good for knocking out shields and triggering Dover's dragon protection, and you obviously need it at the end, but I don't think I used it otherwise.

He does really seem to use it a lot though; maybe this is key. Although it kind of frightens me because it would take a lot of skill to know exactly how long to hold onto circle, right?

Hmm, I ignored the Kanaphages myself. I wonder what he'll use the money for.

Ha, he bought Antenna! I did too! (Although I could just barely afford this without Kanaphages, so the money must be needed later.) I thought I was all clever and everything, so I'm glad to see that it was apparently the correct move. I mean, I don't think anyone really gets this weapon while not playing for speed.

I remember very clearly that the Frozen Road danger room had Beaks (the ground guys) and Aggrossers (the flying guys). I'm not sure which is kaeru and which is servant.

Hmm, my ranger battle was to kill everyone first turn with Ryu. Letting them get closer together, next to you, while you let Nina and Lin die, seems more efficient in terms of D-Counter. But, I don't know how you would get the gunner and the captain near everyone else.

What he does for this set of fights is different than the strategy I was thinking of, which would be to get Fragball from the Frozen Road, then use it against Asimov and later  Jezuit (the regent with Shadowwalk, the invisible move).

I wish I'd taken notes so I could compare D-Counter and levels and such. Oh well. I don't even know if SDA existed at the time. :P

Gorash

Edit history:

Gorash: 2006-04-05 09:00:05 am

2006-04-05 08:00:43 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Aggrossers, yes.... oh my memory.

The 1h10 is mentioned in the guide itself now: here. The link near the top isn't in the source I use for translation. Behind that link is an updated version, with some changes at the top. I read cross it, and one of the changes is, that he manipulated the game into giving him 4 kanaphages (thus 10000 zeny), he didn't buy the antenna and he segmented differently. I'll finish this one first, and then see what the changes are.

About the Antenna, if you know that frozen road enemies are weak to lightning it would be a shame not to buy one if you can put it to use.

To kill them has a different reason though: experience.
If Nina and Rin are dead, Ryu gets all the exp from the 3 zeno battles, which seems to boost him like 5 levels.

And the reason he's using D-Breath I can guess too: He's so low level that tornado (1.5x weapon damage uncharged) does not enough damage, where Breath depends only on your D-Counter.

Btw. he uses Cupid + Jezuit route in both runs.

Aggrossers, yes.... oh my memory.

The 1h10 is mentioned in the guide itself now: [url=http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-King/5952/bv.html]here[/url]. The link near the top isn't in the source I use for translation. Behind that link is an updated version, with some changes at the top. I read cross it, and one of the changes is, that he manipulated the game into giving him 4 kanaphages (thus 10000 zeny), he didn't buy the antenna and he segmented differently. I'll finish this one first, and then see what the changes are.

About the Antenna, if you know that frozen road enemies are weak to lightning it would be a shame not to buy one if you can put it to use.

To kill them has a different reason though: experience.
If Nina and Rin are dead, Ryu gets all the exp from the 3 zeno battles, which seems to boost him like 5 levels.

And the reason he's using D-Breath I can guess too: He's so low level that tornado (1.5x weapon damage uncharged) does not enough damage, where Breath depends only on your D-Counter.

Btw. he uses Cupid + Jezuit route in both runs.

Enhasa

2006-04-05 09:06:31 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

About the Antenna, if you know that frozen road enemies are weak to lighting it would be a shame not to buy one.

Except that the Antenna is kinda bad and I figure most people would just get Jolt from a goo. Since apparently the 1:10 doesn't get Antenna, maybe it isn't such a shame after all. Tongue

Quote:

To kill them has a different reason though: experience.
If Nina and Rin are dead, Ryu gets all the exp from the 3 zeno battles, which seems to boost him like 5 levels.

Right, I understand why he does it. I wrote down what I had come up with, with the understanding that what he does is most likely the better way. Ryu's XP is all that really matters. I wanted Nina alive vs Asimov for Fragball, but it really is clever that you can apparently arrange the rangers to get AOE'd while you let Nina and Lin die.

Quote:

And the reason he's using D-Breath I can guess too: He's so low level that tornado (1.5x weapon damage uncharged) does not enough damage, where Breath depends only on your D-Counter.

I thought Vortex was 1% for 2x, Hurricane was 1.25% per enemy for 2x, and Twister was 2% for 2 hits of 3x and knockback. Breath I thought was less counter efficient. When I tried at minimal levels, Ryu always had enough AP to be able to use say, multiple moves if needed, so I can't imagine that not being able to deal enough damage in a turn could be a problem, especially with D-Charge. I get the impression that the most important factor of all is minimizing your D-Counter usage (this is why it's important to figure out the optimal number of D-Charges for each battle). Extending into another turn is bad for speed, but it's also just as bad because your D-Counter goes up 1% at end of turn in dragon form.

Quote:

Btw. he uses Cupid + Jezuit route in both runs.

That's what I was doing, since Cupid is a little easier to kill than Hortensia, and Vexacion is obviously a bad idea since you have to kill his bodyguards as well.

[quote]About the Antenna, if you know that frozen road enemies are weak to lighting it would be a shame not to buy one.[/quote]
Except that the Antenna is kinda bad and I figure most people would just get Jolt from a goo. Since apparently the 1:10 doesn't get Antenna, maybe it isn't such a shame after all. :P

[quote]To kill them has a different reason though: experience.
If Nina and Rin are dead, Ryu gets all the exp from the 3 zeno battles, which seems to boost him like 5 levels.[/quote]
Right, I understand why he does it. I wrote down what I had come up with, with the understanding that what he does is most likely the better way. Ryu's XP is all that really matters. I wanted Nina alive vs Asimov for Fragball, but it really is clever that you can apparently arrange the rangers to get AOE'd while you let Nina and Lin die.

[quote]And the reason he's using D-Breath I can guess too: He's so low level that tornado (1.5x weapon damage uncharged) does not enough damage, where Breath depends only on your D-Counter.[/quote]
I thought Vortex was 1% for 2x, Hurricane was 1.25% per enemy for 2x, and Twister was 2% for 2 hits of 3x and knockback. Breath I thought was less counter efficient. When I tried at minimal levels, Ryu always had enough AP to be able to use say, multiple moves if needed, so I can't imagine that not being able to deal enough damage in a turn could be a problem, especially with D-Charge. I get the impression that the most important factor of all is minimizing your D-Counter usage (this is why it's important to figure out the optimal number of D-Charges for each battle). Extending into another turn is bad for speed, but it's also just as bad because your D-Counter goes up 1% at end of turn in dragon form.

[quote]Btw. he uses Cupid + Jezuit route in both runs.[/quote]
That's what I was doing, since Cupid is a little easier to kill than Hortensia, and Vexacion is obviously a bad idea since you have to kill his bodyguards as well.

Gorash

2006-04-05 10:05:09 am

${$uid.$user}{' usertext'}

Once you D-Dive your charge state is actually set to 0.5x.
So an uncharged Tornado does 0.5*3=1.5x your normal damage.

But I've neglected Breath too for most of the time.
I used it for fun in Zeno loops, and, well it is strong. The first second or so is weak, but then the beam broadens and does so massive damage...

Enhasa

2006-04-05 06:01:19 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hmm, if Breath is actually good, then that's something I didn't know, as well as yet another victory for the game designers.