BattleTanx: Global Assault

jymotion

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2014-05-05 02:58:49 pm

^{I figured I should seperate this from the co-op thread here, since it's becoming a pretty different run. There was a previous thread in 2006, but nothing came of it.}

Links

SDA Co-op IL Run (Easy) by Phazonelite7 and Enkazin
Unfinished Solo TAS (Hard) by emu2000
Speedrun.com page

Useful/Relevant Info

There is a glitch where the mototank and the rattler have the ability to shoot through walls when pressed up against them. This is especially helpful in the drive in movie theater level and the Eiffel Tower level
Mototank is slightly faster than the Hovertank. (demo video)
It is entirely possible to dodge mine fields with some tight maneuvering in the mototank.
Using a control scheme that allows isolation of the control of the tank's turret from the movement of the tank can be useful.
No apparent way to speed up convoy levels or spawn rates at "Assault on SF".

^{via Phazonelite7}

Pausing and unpausing the screen may cause the end screen to appear more quickly in some instances. (may not be necessary)
Shooting through walls may diminish damage power.

^{via Phazonelite7 (Eiffel Tower, Alcatraz)}

Shooting reduces speed and virtually kills all momentum when in air.

^{via Enkazin (Texas Slave Fortress)}

Single Player has many more objects throughout the game than Co-op, due to extra hardware resources. Some are helpful, like the explosive oil tankers on the first level. Some just kill you or slow you down, like the missiles at Texas Slave Fortress.
You can increase your speed 50-60% by exploiting the N64's neutral reset. By letting the system believe [Down] on the Joystick is [Neutral], it believes [Neutral] is [Up] and [Up] is [Up+]. You can check out the main tanks' top speeds with and without the exploit in the demo video from above.
The neutral reset exploit opens up possibilities that either weren't possible or required turbo, such as obtaining the nuke at the White House or jumping the wall at Drive In.
Moving too quickly up certain ramps at Houses of Parliament can crash the game. Slowing down as you reach the top prevents this.
AI tanks sometimes survive nuke blasts, despite being close enough that it should kill them. My guess is that they are coming out of the spawn garages during the blast and are temporarily invulnerable, despite the garage being destroyed.
There is no clear reason or pattern for Edge Power success rates. Observed rates can be found here.

Here are the controller configs I personally use for full game runs.

For what it's worth, a "single player" run of this game or its ILs could probably be completed faster in co-op mode with an unused Player 2 (since the game renders fewer obstacles in co-op), but it becomes an argument of semantics. In my solo runs, I will be setting the number of players in the game to 1.

Thread title:

[sup][i]I figured I should seperate this from the co-op thread [url="https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/battletanx_global_assault_coop_run.html"]here[/url], since it's becoming a pretty different run.  There was a previous thread in [url="https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/battletanx_ii_global_assualt.html"]2006[/url], but nothing came of it.[/i][/sup]

[b][u]Links[/u][/b]
[ul]
[li][url="http://speeddemosarchive.com/BattleTanx2.html"]SDA Co-op IL Run (Easy)[/url] by Phazonelite7 and Enkazin[/li]
[li][url="http://youtu.be/AVkV7mDNjGg"]Unfinished Solo TAS (Hard)[/url] by emu2000[/li]
[li][url="http://www.speedrun.com/bga"]Speedrun.com page[/url][/li]
[/ul]
[b][u]Useful/Relevant Info[/u][/b]
[ul]
[li]There is a glitch where the mototank and the rattler have the ability to shoot through walls when pressed up against them. This is especially helpful in the drive in movie theater level and the Eiffel Tower level[/li]
[li]Mototank is slightly faster than the Hovertank. ([i][url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX6OigfAhn8"]demo video[/url][/i])[/li]
[li]It is entirely possible to dodge mine fields with some tight maneuvering in the mototank.[/li]
[li]Using a control scheme that allows isolation of the control of the tank's turret from the movement of the tank can be useful.[/li]
[li]No apparent way to speed up convoy levels or spawn rates at "Assault on SF".[/li]
[sup][i]via [url="https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/battletanx_global_assault_coop_run.html"]Phazonelite7[/url][/i][/sup]
[li]Pausing and unpausing the screen may cause the end screen to appear more quickly in some instances. ([i]may not be necessary[/i])[/li]
[li]Shooting through walls may diminish damage power.[/li]
[sup][i]via [url="http://speeddemosarchive.com/BattleTanx2.html"]Phazonelite7[/url] (Eiffel Tower, Alcatraz)[/i][/sup]
[li]Shooting reduces speed and virtually kills all momentum when in air.[/li]
[sup][i]via [url="http://speeddemosarchive.com/BattleTanx2.html"]Enkazin[/url] (Texas Slave Fortress)[/i][/sup]
[li]Single Player has many more objects throughout the game than Co-op, due to extra hardware resources.  Some are helpful, like the explosive oil tankers on the first level.  Some just kill you or slow you down, like the missiles at Texas Slave Fortress.[/li]
[li]You can increase your speed 50-60% by exploiting the N64's neutral reset.  By letting the system believe [Down] on the Joystick is [Neutral], it believes [Neutral] is [Up] and [Up] is [Up+].  You can check out the main tanks' top speeds with and without the exploit in the [url="https://youtu.be/nX6OigfAhn8"]demo video[/url] from above.[/li]
[li]The neutral reset exploit opens up possibilities that either weren't possible or required turbo, such as obtaining the nuke at the White House or jumping the wall at Drive In.[/li]
[li]Moving too quickly up certain ramps at Houses of Parliament can crash the game. Slowing down as you reach the top prevents this.[/li]
[li]AI tanks sometimes survive nuke blasts, despite being close enough that it should kill them. My guess is that they are coming out of the spawn garages during the blast and are temporarily invulnerable, despite the garage being destroyed.[/li]
[li]There is no clear reason or pattern for Edge Power success rates. Observed rates can be found [url="https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/battletanx_global_assault__solo_23.html#battletanx_global_assault__solo_23"]here[/url].[/li]
[/ul]
Here are the [url="http://i.imgur.com/utisFWh.png"]controller configs[/url] I personally use for full game runs.

For what it's worth, a "single player" run of this game or its ILs could probably be completed faster in co-op mode with an unused Player 2 (since the game renders fewer obstacles in co-op), but it becomes an argument of semantics. In my solo runs, I will be setting the number of players in the game to 1.

AlecK47

2014-05-05 07:03:19 pm

Cool! I'll have to keep an eye on your progress then.

jymotion

2014-05-06 12:43:09 am

Quote from AlecK47:

Cool! I'll have to keep an eye on your progress then.

Thanks for helping me out with the questions I had in the other thread Smiley

AlecK47

2014-05-07 09:30:43 pm

No problem, man. It's nice to see this game getting some love.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-11-05 08:36:29 am

jymotion: 2014-09-03 09:53:53 am

jymotion: 2014-07-16 11:41:34 pm

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jymotion: 2014-07-16 11:38:28 pm

2014-07-16 11:38:16 pm

Guess I'll give a random update on my progress. So far I have times for 9 of the 19 levels. I am satisfied with 6 of these 9 times, meaning I don't believe I can do any better with the strats I used. Those levels are:

01. SF Airport - 0:21 --- 1 second behind TAS, 2 behind SDA co-op. Got pretty lucky with helpful teammates.
02. SF Breakout - 0:20 --- Wasn't even able to get 0:19 in co-op despite multiple approaches. Pretty certain this is as good as it gets.
04. Texas Slave Fortress - 0:34 --- So many 0:35's before I finally got a 0:34. Won't say it's unbeatable, but I can't see myself beating it with this route.
05. Drive-In - 0:17 --- Good first kill, good directional bounce after the wall clear. Can't see myself getting a 0:16.
07. White House - 0:30 --- Got this last night. I'm annoyed by all the pre-nuke bumps and am sure it's a very high 0:30, but I spent too many hours on this level to get this and don't think I can save enough time for a 0:29.
13. Eiffel Tower - 0:08 --- Same as SF Breakout. Wasn't able to get lower in co-op, so I don't see it going lower in solo.

The other 3 are:

09: Tower Bridge - 0:21 --- Pretty good time for the route I took, but I might try the left-side route for the oil tankers used in the TAS
10: Tower of London - 1:19 --- Slow rhino kill, couple wall bumps, waited a little too long to finish off the building. TAS has 10 seconds on me which is too much.
18: Alcatraz - 0:27 --- Haven't put much time into this one, but still not bad. Can avoid the bump in the beginning. Can begin shooting the building earlier. Might be able to get some help from other enemies in destroying the boss.

That leaves 10 levels I haven't worked on yet, which includes the 2 convoy autoscrollers and the 9+ minute level that seems completely RNG dependent. So, 7 real levels.

03: Truck Stop --- Really not going to enjoy routing/doing this one as it's one of the most combat heavy and there seem to be a bunch of AI to keep track of.
06: DC Mall --- This one should be fun. I've been enjoying mototank levels.
08: Houses of Parliament --- I think I have a route for this, but I haven't played around with teleporters at all to see if the TAS route is viable.
12: Bistro --- Probably won't be able to stay alive with the moto, so I'll have to try to control the hovertank.
13: Champs Elysees --- Not a huge fan of this one either. Combat heavy, Goliath, over a minute. Will be tough to optimize.
15: Berlin War Zone --- mototank + minefield is gonna be a lot of resets.
19: Shore Patrol --- no idea. didn't even know this level existed until late last year.

So yeah, I'm still active with this and this is where I'm at. I've been having a surprising amount of fun grinding out some of these ILs due to the speed, challenge and people hanging out out in my chat. Would be cool to see someone else try their hand at this, but I've heard about and experienced subpar emulation and I don't think it was too common a game. Anyway, feel free to message me or post here with any questions. Cheers.

Guess I'll give a random update on my progress.  So far I have times for 9 of the 19 levels.  I am satisfied with 6 of these 9 times, meaning I don't believe I can do any better with the strats I used.  Those levels are:

01. SF Airport - [url="http://youtu.be/dhexXMkSsWg"]0:21[/url] --- 1 second behind TAS, 2 behind SDA co-op.  Got pretty lucky with helpful teammates.
02. SF Breakout - [url="http://youtu.be/3ApvfHk3Tt8"]0:20[/url] --- Wasn't even able to get 0:19 in co-op despite multiple approaches.  Pretty certain this is as good as it gets.
04. Texas Slave Fortress - [url="http://youtu.be/nsTHE75JUA0"]0:34[/url] --- So many 0:35's before I finally got a 0:34.  Won't say it's unbeatable, but I can't see myself beating it with this route.
05. Drive-In - [url="http://youtu.be/q9jwrYh7KTY"]0:17[/url] --- Good first kill, good directional bounce after the wall clear.  Can't see myself getting a 0:16.
07. White House - [url="http://youtu.be/xJ3igcKdGeA"]0:30[/url] --- Got this last night.  I'm annoyed by all the pre-nuke bumps and am sure it's a very high 0:30, but I spent too many hours on this level to get this and don't think I can save enough time for a 0:29.
13. Eiffel Tower - [url="http://youtu.be/YhqS9jqJVIg"]0:08[/url] --- Same as SF Breakout.  Wasn't able to get lower in co-op, so I don't see it going lower in solo.

The other 3 are:

09: Tower Bridge - [url="http://youtu.be/-BhT0FaE-RM"]0:21[/url] --- Pretty good time for the route I took, but I might try the left-side route for the oil tankers used in the TAS
10: Tower of London - 1:19 --- Slow rhino kill, couple wall bumps, waited a little too long to finish off the building.  TAS has 10 seconds on me which is too much.
18: Alcatraz - 0:27 --- Haven't put much time into this one, but still not bad.  Can avoid the bump in the beginning.  Can begin shooting the building earlier.  Might be able to get some help from other enemies in destroying the boss.

That leaves 10 levels I haven't worked on yet, which includes the 2 convoy autoscrollers and the 9+ minute level that seems completely RNG dependent.  So, 7 real levels.

03: Truck Stop --- Really not going to enjoy routing/doing this one as it's one of the most combat heavy and there seem to be a bunch of AI to keep track of.
06: DC Mall --- This one should be fun.  I've been enjoying mototank levels.
08: Houses of Parliament --- I think I have a route for this, but I haven't played around with teleporters at all to see if the TAS route is viable.
12: Bistro --- Probably won't be able to stay alive with the moto, so I'll have to try to control the hovertank.
13: Champs Elysees --- Not a huge fan of this one either.  Combat heavy, Goliath, over a minute.  Will be tough to optimize.
15: Berlin War Zone --- mototank + minefield is gonna be a lot of resets.
19: Shore Patrol --- no idea.  didn't even know this level existed until late last year.

So yeah, I'm still active with this and this is where I'm at.  I've been having a surprising amount of fun grinding out some of these ILs due to the speed, challenge and people hanging out out in my chat.  Would be cool to see someone else try their hand at this, but I've heard about and experienced subpar emulation and I don't think it was too common a game.  Anyway, feel free to message me or post here with any questions.  Cheers.

AlecK47

2014-07-20 11:07:45 am

Good stuff so far. Also youtube's "related videos" for these... rofl.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-08-04 08:05:09 am

jymotion: 2014-08-04 08:04:36 am

jymotion: 2014-08-04 08:04:17 am

2014-08-04 08:03:53 am

Minor update

06: DC Mall - 0:37 --- Not as fun as I expected. If you don't get killed by the explosive boxes by the third building, you usually have a tough time getting/shooting through that narrow path. Can definitely improve by 1-2 seconds, but I'm moving on to other levels for now.

10: Tower of London - 1:16 --- If my timing is accurate, this is a high 1:16. Not as clean as I'd like, but it would take a long time to cut the 0.8-0.9 seconds I'd need for a 1:15. I had a run that was barely on pace, but timing the final guided missile is an awkward guess.

11: Bistro - 0:38 --- Really didn't expect to get a run this clean, especially in around an hour of attempts. The hovertank is damn hard to control, especially at these speeds. Goliaths were generous in not blocking me in.

18: Alcatraz - 0:26 --- As good as I expect to ever get. I'm pretty sure there was one time (out of dozens) where the final building was already completely leveled when I got there. I don't have the patience to grind out attempts for that luck (since Cassandra can just choose to kill you anyway).

Currently working on Berlin War Zone and enjoying it. I forgot that two of the three buildings where the kids are being held would have a door blocking it off in single player. They take forever to shoot down with the mototank, but luckily, if you go to the farthest one first, there is an alleyway with a flamethrower and shields. Flamethrower takes down the doors easily and the shields make your health irrelevant. Godsend. Biggest problem is the damn minefield. Current PB - 0:46 (bad)

Minor update

06: DC Mall - [url="http://youtu.be/_BAPihX9RPw"]0:37[/url] --- Not as fun as I expected. If you don't get killed by the explosive boxes by the third building, you usually have a tough time getting/shooting through that narrow path. Can definitely improve by 1-2 seconds, but I'm moving on to other levels for now.

10: Tower of London - [url="http://youtu.be/-hOaHVv_BV0"]1:16[/url] --- If my timing is accurate, this is a high 1:16. Not as clean as I'd like, but it would take a long time to cut the 0.8-0.9 seconds I'd need for a 1:15. I had a run that was barely on pace, but timing the final guided missile is an awkward guess.

11: Bistro - [url="http://youtu.be/ta5uMD_zuf4"]0:38[/url] --- Really didn't expect to get a run this clean, especially in around an hour of attempts. The hovertank is damn hard to control, especially at these speeds. Goliaths were generous in not blocking me in.

18: Alcatraz - [url="http://youtu.be/2gNZZA5qjoI"]0:26[/url] --- As good as I expect to ever get. I'm pretty sure there was one time (out of dozens) where the final building was already completely leveled when I got there. I don't have the patience to grind out attempts for that luck (since Cassandra can just choose to kill you anyway).

Currently working on Berlin War Zone and enjoying it. I forgot that two of the three buildings where the kids are being held would have a door blocking it off in single player. They take forever to shoot down with the mototank, but luckily, if you go to the farthest one first, there is an alleyway with a flamethrower and shields. Flamethrower takes down the doors easily and the shields make your health irrelevant. Godsend. Biggest problem is the damn minefield. Current PB - 0:46 (bad)

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2014-08-04 07:13:19 pm

2014-08-04 08:53:01 am

Mall: Maybe the Rattler to down the first couple buildings first? Doubtful though, what with the larger hitbox and lower speed.

Tower: I can’t help but wonder if there might not be a way to use multiple cheaper tanks instead of the Goliath to take advantage of their speed or even deathwarp. Might not work that well though, because of how few weapon pickups the level has. For example, the Rattler can take out most enemies the cannon is used for almost as fast as the Goliath. You might have to grab more ammo and either grenade the mines or kamikaze a Mototank. The big problem would be the two Rhinos you turbo to death, but using mines or grenades could do the trick for them.

Bistro: Solid. Could be improved of course, but still good.

Alcatraz: Too bad the only convenient pickup is Tank Bucks.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-08-04 09:20:37 am

jymotion: 2014-08-04 09:18:49 am

2014-08-04 09:18:39 am

Quote from AlecK47:

Mall: Maybe the Rattler to down the first couple buildings first? Doubtful though, what with the larger hitbox and lower speed.

Yeah I can't see it being faster. It would speed up the first 1.5 buildings, but everything after that is 1 shot with the laser. Not sure it would fit through that narrow part of the third building either.

Quote from AlecK47:

Tower: I can’t help but wonder if there might not be a way to use multiple cheaper tanks instead of the Goliath to take advantage of their speed or even deathwarp. Might not work that well though, because of how few weapon pickups the level has. For example, the Rattler can take out most enemies the cannon is used for almost as fast as the Goliath. You might have to grab more ammo and either grenade the mines (or kamikaze a Mototank). The big problem would be the two Rhinos you turbo to death, but using mines or grenades could do the trick for them.

I really didn't do much routing for this level. I just assumed the TAS knew best.
I did toy with the idea of starting as a rattler. Some issues were that the second and third boats seem to spawn at a preset time, so that can't really be sped up, it wouldn't survive the mines, but mainly - it likely wouldn't survive the annihilator at the end.
There may very well be some strat that takes out the mines and uses special weapons throughout, but I couldn't think of a way to make it work.

I do appreciate the feedback/ideas. I suck at thinking up new strats. I usually just pick one and grind it.

[quote="AlecK47"]Mall: Maybe the Rattler to down the first couple buildings first?  Doubtful though, what with the larger hitbox and lower speed.[/quote]
Yeah I can't see it being faster. It would speed up the first 1.5 buildings, but everything after that is 1 shot with the laser. Not sure it would fit through that narrow part of the third building either.

[quote="AlecK47"]Tower: I can’t help but wonder if there might not be a way to use multiple cheaper tanks instead of the Goliath to take advantage of their speed or even deathwarp.  Might not work that well though, because of how few weapon pickups the level has.  For example, the Rattler can take out most enemies the cannon is used for almost as fast as the Goliath.  You might have to grab more ammo and either grenade the mines (or kamikaze a Mototank).  The big problem would be the two Rhinos you turbo to death, but using mines or grenades could do the trick for them.[/quote]
I really didn't do much routing for this level. I just assumed the TAS knew best.
I did toy with the idea of starting as a rattler. Some issues were that the second and third boats seem to spawn at a preset time, so that can't really be sped up, it wouldn't survive the mines, but mainly - it likely wouldn't survive the annihilator at the end.
There may very well be some strat that takes out the mines and uses special weapons throughout, but I couldn't think of a way to make it work.

I do appreciate the feedback/ideas. I suck at thinking up new strats. I usually just pick one and grind it.

AlecK47

2014-08-04 09:21:34 am

Well, I was thinking you could use the time waiting for the boats to spawn to take out some mines with a Mototank, or something like that.

jymotion

2014-08-04 09:22:59 am

Quote from AlecK47:

Well, I was thinking you could use the time waiting for the boats to spawn to take out some mines with a Mototank, or something like that.

Yeah, I'll play around with it a bit.
I hate rhinos, though. The fact that I hardly had to deal with them was so nice.

secv

2014-08-18 01:26:26 am

I watched the coop run and it was awesome, I look forward to seeing a lot of the solo run!

jymotion

2014-09-03 09:35:31 am

another minor update

09: Houses of Parliament - 0:48 --- normally, I wouldn't be satisfied with some of the movement mistakes, but I was at this one for days. Half the attempts reset on the minefield and just about all the rest get thrown out the window by the first teleporter sending you somewhere other than that fenced off area. Even within the fenced in area, it can teleport you right next to the prisoner or all the way at the other end. There's too much randomness involved for me to take this much further.

15: Brandenburg Gate - 1:30 --- escort mission, not worth watching

16: Berlin War Zone - 0:38 --- fun, challenging level with one annoying flaw. you can only quick-turn when your tank is flat on the ground. when you shoot down those structures and grab the prisoners, there is a small mound left where the structure used to be. it is sometimes possible to quick-turn on it, usually if you are right in the middle of the mound where it kinda flattens out, but you can't rely on it.

17: Escape from Berlin - 1:16 --- escort mission, not worth watching

18: Assault on SF - 9:15 --- recorded but not uploaded. 9:10, possibly lower, is possible, but I have no desire to grind a 9 minute IL for RNG

Truck Stop, Champs Elysees, and the bonus level are left. Then I'll go back and play around with new strats and do some full runs.

another minor update

09: Houses of Parliament - [url="http://youtu.be/hmbNxm1M0yw"]0:48[/url] --- normally, I wouldn't be satisfied with some of the movement mistakes, but I was at this one for days. Half the attempts reset on the minefield and just about all the rest get thrown out the window by the first teleporter sending you somewhere other than that fenced off area. Even within the fenced in area, it can teleport you right next to the prisoner or all the way at the other end. There's too much randomness involved for me to take this much further.

15: Brandenburg Gate - [url="http://youtu.be/WTDs20YquQU"]1:30[/url] --- escort mission, not worth watching

16: Berlin War Zone - [url="http://youtu.be/9DcNmYSImrs"]0:38[/url] --- fun, challenging level with one annoying flaw. you can only quick-turn when your tank is flat on the ground. when you shoot down those structures and grab the prisoners, there is a small mound left where the structure used to be. it is sometimes possible to quick-turn on it, usually if you are right in the middle of the mound where it kinda flattens out, but you can't rely on it.

17: Escape from Berlin - [url="http://youtu.be/kMg2Iqi9dlo"]1:16[/url] --- escort mission, not worth watching

18: Assault on SF - 9:15 --- recorded but not uploaded. 9:10, possibly lower, is possible, but I have no desire to grind a 9 minute IL for RNG

Truck Stop, Champs Elysees, and the bonus level are left. Then I'll go back and play around with new strats and do some full runs.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-01-09 12:43:47 pm

jymotion: 2014-11-20 07:57:54 am

jymotion: 2014-11-15 10:56:50 pm

jymotion: 2014-11-14 01:03:57 pm

jymotion: 2014-11-14 10:51:48 am

jymotion: 2014-11-14 09:22:12 am

jymotion: 2014-11-14 09:20:36 am

jymotion: 2014-11-14 09:20:21 am

jymotion: 2014-11-14 09:17:33 am

jymotion: 2014-11-14 09:17:19 am

2014-11-14 09:16:21 am

I've put off finishing the ILs for a while and have been doing SS attempts instead. I've gotten the time down to 26:55 with a pretty good run, but with some glaring mistakes that are annoying me enough that I'm still grinding out attempts.

Local Recording w/ game audio
VOD w/ music and input display

Died on Texas Slave Fortress, but after using swarmers on the door, so it could have been worse. Possible to be 15-20s ahead after this level.
Didn't get enough height on the first jump to get the nuke on White House. Made it second try and got lucky with no buggy nuke survivors.
Accidentally used a teleporter on Parliament, but got lucky and it saved me the time it takes to shoot down the door. Navigating through the mines can be faster, but they're just about always a one hit kill.
Failed to grenade the first rhino on Tower of London, then had to grenade the second rhino, costing some seconds.
Clean hovertank level. If you get killed here, you have to collect all the prisoners again.
Died twice to the minefield on Berlin War Zone, which is awful.
Then I got bailed out on SF Assault with god RNG. Hand-timed in the 9:10-9:12 range, which would be a pb and possibly tie Phazonelite7 and Enkazin's pb. It will be frustrating to lose time (0-15s) here for no reason in future runs.

Overall, SS can be fun/cool as you're constantly switching between full/partial/no neutral reset depending on the level, but there are just so many places for the run to end. I rarely make it past Texas Slave Fortress in attempts, and when I do, I still have nuke survivors, minefields and Assault RNG to deal with. I'll try to get a time I'm proud of, but IMO, ILs are the better way to run this game.

I've put off finishing the ILs for a while and have been doing SS attempts instead. I've gotten the time down to 26:55 with a pretty good run, but with some glaring mistakes that are annoying me enough that I'm still grinding out attempts.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92LnDz_duRE"]Local Recording w/ game audio[/url]
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RP6OGnftk"]VOD w/ music and input display[/url]
[ul]notes:
[li]Died on Texas Slave Fortress, but after using swarmers on the door, so it could have been worse. Possible to be 15-20s ahead after this level.[/li]
[li]Didn't get enough height on the first jump to get the nuke on White House. Made it second try and got lucky with no buggy nuke survivors.[/li]
[li]Accidentally used a teleporter on Parliament, but got lucky and it saved me the time it takes to shoot down the door. Navigating through the mines can be faster, but they're just about always a one hit kill.[/li]
[li]Failed to grenade the first rhino on Tower of London, then had to grenade the second rhino, costing some seconds.[/li]
[li]Clean hovertank level. If you get killed here, you have to collect all the prisoners again.[/li]
[li]Died twice to the minefield on Berlin War Zone, which is awful.[/li]
[li]Then I got bailed out on SF Assault with god RNG. Hand-timed in the 9:10-9:12 range, which would be a pb and possibly tie Phazonelite7 and Enkazin's pb. It will be frustrating to lose time (0-15s) here for no reason in future runs.[/li]
[/ul]
Overall, SS can be fun/cool as you're constantly switching between full/partial/no neutral reset depending on the level, but there are just so many places for the run to end. I rarely make it past Texas Slave Fortress in attempts, and when I do, I still have nuke survivors, minefields and Assault RNG to deal with. I'll try to get a time I'm proud of, but IMO, ILs are the better way to run this game.

AlecK47

2014-11-17 07:58:11 pm

That's a pretty solid run. I wish I could offer more tips, but perhaps a mototank suicide on Parliament could save time with the minefields? For that matter, a mototank suicide with a grenade that takes out the second minefield (or second part) might be the ideal SS strat for both Parliament and War Zone, but I'm not sure off the top of my head whether grenades are handy in either case. Also, using the mototank for London Bridge seems kinda ballsy for SS, but I like it, and the strats in Champs Elysees seem pretty solid.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2014-11-20 07:57:18 am

jymotion: 2014-11-20 07:56:43 am

jymotion: 2014-11-20 07:56:07 am

jymotion: 2014-11-19 10:22:37 am

2014-11-18 08:10:02 am

Thanks for giving it a watch. Quick suicides on the minefields would (obviously) be quicker than the common scenario where I try to navigate them slowly and get blown up anyway, but it would bother me having that safety strat in the run when it's very possible to just slow down and get through them. Berlin War Zone is definitely worth navigating through, since the mines are lined up in straight lines. I've just been stupid and have tried to go through them at full speed.

Yeah there are a lot of things that can kill you on the Bridge, but if you take it easy around the mines, tankers, and the explosives at the end, there are a few health packs throughout to keep you alive.

The big thing I figured out for Champs Elysees was that I don't need full neutral reset to be able to kill the rhinos by running into them. I had previously been doing full reset, and if I didn't have enough speed to kill them by running into them, I just had to shoot them for a few seconds until they died. Turns out partial reset is enough, meaning you can just back up a little and run into them again to kill them. With that, and the edge power hopefully converting a couple enemies, I can save ~20 seconds on my PB.

_________ edit __________

Single Segment - 26:33 --- Died once on the Parliament minefield and once on the War Zone minefield, slow first few levels, bad RNG on Assault. Sum of Best is 25:37, so I might have to grind until I get sub-26.

01: SF Airport - 0:20 --- not much to say about this one. the swarmers hit and the AI didn't get too spread out.

18: Assault on SF - 9:11 --- not worth watching for any reason. you just shoot the tanks when they come out of spawn and luckily the final one came out at 9:11.

Thanks for giving it a watch. Quick suicides on the minefields would (obviously) be quicker than the common scenario where I try to navigate them slowly and get blown up anyway, but it would bother me having that safety strat in the run when it's very possible to just slow down and get through them. Berlin War Zone is definitely worth navigating through, since the mines are lined up in straight lines. I've just been stupid and have tried to go through them at full speed.

Yeah there are a lot of things that can kill you on the Bridge, but if you take it easy around the mines, tankers, and the explosives at the end, there are a few health packs throughout to keep you alive.

The big thing I figured out for Champs Elysees was that I don't need full neutral reset to be able to kill the rhinos by running into them. I had previously been doing full reset, and if I didn't have enough speed to kill them by running into them, I just had to shoot them for a few seconds until they died. Turns out partial reset is enough, meaning you can just back up a little and run into them again to kill them. With that, and the edge power hopefully converting a couple enemies, I can save ~20 seconds on my PB.

_________ edit __________

Single Segment - [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB4L9XMJYrc"]26:33[/url] --- Died once on the Parliament minefield and once on the War Zone minefield, slow first few levels, bad RNG on Assault. Sum of Best is 25:37, so I might have to grind until I get sub-26.

01: SF Airport - [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKsSIyreVpQ"]0:20[/url] --- not much to say about this one. the swarmers hit and the AI didn't get too spread out.

18: Assault on SF - [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uic4CwJi8sY"]9:11[/url] --- not worth watching for any reason. you just shoot the tanks when they come out of spawn and luckily the final one came out at 9:11.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-03-02 10:39:02 am

jymotion: 2015-03-01 09:24:07 pm

jymotion: 2015-03-01 08:50:25 pm

jymotion: 2015-02-20 07:59:12 am

2015-02-20 07:58:43 am

Getting back to doing runs after a few months. Got a 26:09 last night.
- Still died on both minefields
- Lost 20s on London Tower by screwing up three of the rhinos
- Can save ~10s with good Assault RNG

Sum of Bests is 25:01. I don't know what time I'll be happy with, but I'd at least like a deathless run. Hopefully soon.

_________ edit __________

26:07. Was everything I wanted from the run up until the final boss. Fuck Cassandra.
- No unintentional deaths up until the final boss
- 9:19 Assault (possible to save up to 9s from rng)
- Lost 22s on Cassandra. In retrospect, I should have grabbed the health, but if she had lobbed a grenade instead of shooting, or if the edge power had converted either of the AI, it would have been sub-25:50

slightly faster Airport 0:20

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-03-18 07:19:05 pm

jymotion: 2015-03-18 07:18:51 pm

2015-03-15 12:54:34 am

25:58.2 - again, deathless to the final level. this time, a turret shot some explosive boxes and insta-killed me on the way to Cassandra. I'll be taking a break from single segment. If it gets into SGDQ, I'll probably get back to attempts as a means for practice.

I also put together a little comparison demo of tank top speeds and added it to the OP

AlecK47

2015-03-23 06:41:20 pm

Somehow I managed to miss this one for a bit. That's a really good run, even with the trolltastic death at the end. Losing ~14 seconds like that had to be painful. If you ever improve that run, you really should submit it, because I would have accepted the 25:58, death, safety health at the end and all.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-09-09 10:39:41 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-09 10:58:42 pm

2015-04-09 10:56:18 pm

Thanks. I do plan on improving it within a few months and submitting. Just need to space things out so I don't come to hate the game. In the meantime:

11: Bistro - 0:36
12: Champs Elysees - 1:35 (will improve)

AlecK47

2015-04-11 06:36:46 pm

Good stuff.

Only one (small) bump in Bistro with that aggressive of driving is really impressive - not even sure it would have been a 0:35 without it anyway.
Champs is looking solid as well, though with a bit better luck it could obviously go down a bit. I can only imagine how much the level would suck without neutral reset.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:20:16 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 05:52:12 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 05:34:45 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 02:53:12 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 02:53:05 pm

2015-04-12 02:38:33 pm

Yeah Champs is kinda inconvenient in that it relies on successfully converting enemies (which I still don't understand how to do consistently) and hoping they kill the roaming hovertanks and maybe join me in the final section. To go along with that, there's uncertainty in a lot of places as to whether it's faster for me to kill an enemy or just drive by it and leave it for the teammates (e.g. the first Goliath I encounter after converting them). I also probably don't need to pick up the radar by the annihilator - that's a habit carried over from single segment where I usually need to find and kill a few stragglers at the end.

and yeah NR really makes this level tolerable. Phazonelite7 uses Turbo (which maybe I should be picking up) to kill some rhinos in the SDA co-op run, but it doesn't have enough uses to handle them all alone.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:39:15 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:25:46 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:24:59 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:23:48 pm

jymotion: 2015-04-14 07:21:52 pm

2015-04-14 07:20:22 pm

I looked into why the Edge sometimes works (i.e. converts the enemy tank to my team) and sometimes doesn't (i.e. enemy tank spins temporarily or is completely unaffected).

The first theory I looked into was from a BattleTanx wiki, which said, "The Edge: Turns green radar displayed enemies to your side. 50% chance of success on yellow enemies. Not effective against red.". After testing, this clearly isn't true - at least not for N64 Global Assault. Then, I tested to see if it had anything to do with the size/strength of my tank or the enemy tank. Neither case seemed to matter, as multiple tanks ranging from mototank to goliath had the same success rate against multiple enemy tank models. Then I realized I've never successfully converted an enemy at White House, which is the first level you can use the edge. I thought it might have something to do with story progression, so I went through all the cutscenes. They explained why you were all of a sudden able to use the edge, but didn't explain why it fully works on some levels and not others. So, I just went ahead and tested each level and here are the ROUGH findings:

Code:

07: White House             0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
08: Houses of Parliament    50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
09: Tower Bridge            50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
10: Tower of London         0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
11: Bistro                  50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
12: Champs Elysees          50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
13: Eiffel Tower            a chance of either, but it doesn't matter much
14: Brandenburg Gate        0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies
15: Berlin War Zone         50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
16: Escape from Berlin      95% chance of converting, 5% chance of spinning enemies
17: Assault on SF           100% chance of converting, 0% chance of spinning enemies, including boats, excluding submarine turrets
18: Alcatraz                Very good chance of converting tanks, Decent chance of converting boats, No chance of converting Cassandra or submarine turrets

The only constant seems to be that you cannot affect Annihilators or submarine turrets. I believe gun buddies and pop-up turrets are always disabled by the Edge as well, but I didn't really test. While there isn't a clear pattern or reason for why the rest of it is the way it is, it's at least nice to know.

I looked into why the Edge sometimes works (i.e. converts the enemy tank to my team) and sometimes doesn't (i.e. enemy tank spins temporarily or is completely unaffected).

The first theory I looked into was from a BattleTanx wiki, which said, "The Edge: Turns green radar displayed enemies to your side. 50% chance of success on yellow enemies. Not effective against red.". After testing, this clearly isn't true - at least not for N64 Global Assault. Then, I tested to see if it had anything to do with the size/strength of my tank or the enemy tank. Neither case seemed to matter, as multiple tanks ranging from mototank to goliath had the same success rate against multiple enemy tank models. Then I realized I've never successfully converted an enemy at White House, which is the first level you can use the edge. I thought it might have something to do with story progression, so I went through all the cutscenes. They explained why you were all of a sudden able to use the edge, but didn't explain why it fully works on some levels and not others. So, I just went ahead and tested each level and here are the ROUGH findings:

[code]
07: White House             0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
08: Houses of Parliament    50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
09: Tower Bridge            50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
10: Tower of London         0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
11: Bistro                  50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
12: Champs Elysees          50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies, except Annihilator, which is completely unaffected
13: Eiffel Tower            a chance of either, but it doesn't matter much
14: Brandenburg Gate        0% chance of converting, 100% chance of spinning enemies
15: Berlin War Zone         50% chance of converting, 50% chance of spinning enemies
16: Escape from Berlin      95% chance of converting, 5% chance of spinning enemies
17: Assault on SF           100% chance of converting, 0% chance of spinning enemies, including boats, excluding submarine turrets
18: Alcatraz                Very good chance of converting tanks, Decent chance of converting boats, No chance of converting Cassandra or submarine turrets
[/code]
The only constant seems to be that you cannot affect Annihilators or submarine turrets. I believe gun buddies and pop-up turrets are always disabled by the Edge as well, but I didn't really test. While there isn't a clear pattern or reason for why the rest of it is the way it is, it's at least nice to know.

jymotion

Edit history:

jymotion: 2015-09-15 01:37:44 pm

jymotion: 2015-09-12 05:33:20 pm

2015-09-09 10:50:32 pm

03: Truck Stop - 0:39
12: Champs Elysees - 1:29

There's a reason I put off Truck Stop for so long. A lot of garages to destroy and a lot of enemies to kill, all roaming around randomly. There's a couple enemies right away where I'm not sure if I should stop and kill them or drive past them and hope they follow me. I tried rotating my turret and shooting sideways, but it seems like it somehow affects steering. The enemy at the other end of the level spawns at a preset time, so I can either sit there and wait or come back and shoot him from across the tracks.

I was able to get a 0:39 with decent execution thanks to a lucky turret shot that went behind me, through/over a couple walls and hit the far gas station. That destroyed a garage and a couple tanks, so I was able to cross the tracks right away rather than having to go do that myself. In order to beat my time, I'll need that to happen again, which may just be luck.

_________ edit __________

19: Shore Patrol - 1:29

This is similar to co-op SDA run in that we both sit there waiting for the final tank to spawn, but my best run ended up 18 seconds slower than theirs. This suggests that spawn is not based on a simple timer from the beginning of the level, unless the number is arbitrarily different between solo & co-op. I'm guessing it's affected by either the status of the tanks that spawn there before it (alive/dead, taking up space in the spawn area, etc.) or the location of the player (e.g. the co-op run can keep one player in the main area triggering the spawns while the other player goes through the tunnels. in the solo run, the player must exit the main area for a bit).

I may be done with ILs.

03: Truck Stop - [url="https://youtu.be/VhxJxGA7oZU"]0:39[/url]
12: Champs Elysees - [url="https://youtu.be/qNUyp7JfQh4"]1:29[/url]

There's a reason I put off Truck Stop for so long. A lot of garages to destroy and a lot of enemies to kill, all roaming around randomly. There's a couple enemies right away where I'm not sure if I should stop and kill them or drive past them and hope they follow me. I tried rotating my turret and shooting sideways, but it seems like it somehow affects steering. The enemy at the other end of the level spawns at a preset time, so I can either sit there and wait or come back and shoot him from across the tracks.

I was able to get a 0:39 with decent execution thanks to a lucky turret shot that went behind me, through/over a couple walls and hit the far gas station. That destroyed a garage and a couple tanks, so I was able to cross the tracks right away rather than having to go do that myself. In order to beat my time, I'll need that to happen again, which may just be luck.

_________ edit __________

19: Shore Patrol - [url="https://youtu.be/q-TMo0jUd88"]1:29[/url]

This is similar to co-op SDA run in that we both sit there waiting for the final tank to spawn, but my best run ended up 18 seconds slower than theirs. This suggests that spawn is not based on a simple timer from the beginning of the level, unless the number is arbitrarily different between solo & co-op. I'm guessing it's affected by either the status of the tanks that spawn there before it (alive/dead, taking up space in the spawn area, etc.) or the location of the player (e.g. the co-op run can keep one player in the main area triggering the spawns while the other player goes through the tunnels. in the solo run, the player must exit the main area for a bit).

I may be done with ILs.

AlecK47

2015-09-22 02:53:56 pm

Can't really blame you for being done after this much time and effort. Also, that Champs is really damn good!