Battle of Olympus

2010-03-03 07:02:22 pm

Haters gonna hate

Think I'm making a route change. Rather than getting the Divine Sword I think I'll be getting the attack upgrade before fighting the minotaur in Crete. In terms of actual travel this is about 40 seconds faster (not to mention loads easier) and in the end I have exactly the same attack power. The overall savings won't be quite that large because I will need to farm up an extra 10 olives, but for that to take over 30 seconds would require either some sloppy play or some terrible luck. I'd also potentially lose a couple seconds in Phthia on the 2 or 3 enemies I actually kill, but I do gain a little more back since Ares has less dialogue than Hephaestos, so that's basically a push.

I'm also thinking about changing my approach to olive gathering and only really going out of my way to kill anything when I'm actively farming. Right now I'm taking a little time out to kill one shot enemies on my path (single slimes mostly), and I'm finding that in addition to the brief pause to let them drop I also have to stutter step after each kill to make sure I don't miss a drop, so I'm taking a second or two per enemy. Multiply that by the number of enemies (don't have a hard count, but probably 30-ish) and that's around a minute or so spent for what usually works out to be about 10 olives (best is 22, but by the same token my worst is 3). Compare that to active farming where I can go from game start to 70 in about 5 minutes, and really about a minute of that is getting to the screen and setting it up, so really more like 65 in 4, faster if I'm lucky, and it really doesn't seem worth it. If I do go this route I'll probably bump my initial farming target to 80 just to help ensure better luck.

Think I'm making a route change.  Rather than getting the Divine Sword I think I'll be getting the attack upgrade before fighting the minotaur in Crete.  In terms of actual travel this is about 40 seconds faster (not to mention loads easier) and in the end I have exactly the same attack power.  The overall savings won't be quite that large because I will need to farm up an extra 10 olives, but for that to take over 30 seconds would require either some sloppy play or some terrible luck.  I'd also potentially lose a couple seconds in Phthia on the 2 or 3 enemies I actually kill, but I do gain a little more back since Ares has less dialogue than Hephaestos, so that's basically a push.

I'm also thinking about changing my approach to olive gathering and only really going out of my way to kill anything when I'm actively farming.  Right now I'm taking a little time out to kill one shot enemies on my path (single slimes mostly), and I'm finding that in addition to the brief pause to let them drop I also have to stutter step after each kill to make sure I don't miss a drop, so I'm taking a second or two per enemy.  Multiply that by the number of enemies (don't have a hard count, but probably 30-ish) and that's around a minute or so spent for what usually works out to be about 10 olives (best is 22, but by the same token my worst is 3).  Compare that to active farming where I can go from game start to 70 in about 5 minutes, and really about a minute of that is getting to the screen and setting it up, so really more like 65 in 4, faster if I'm lucky, and it really doesn't seem worth it.  If I do go this route I'll probably bump my initial farming target to 80 just to help ensure better luck.

Breakdown

2010-03-05 11:25:53 pm

Haters gonna hate

OK, it seems farming directly to 80 initially the way I was doing things is in fact totally impossible. There's apparently a cap on the number of olives that will drop in a visit to an area (as in region, not screen), or at least I had 3 back to back attempts at getting to 80 hopelessly stall at exactly 75. Seriously, no drops in minutes of farming after hitting that amount.

But you may have noticed I said the way I was doing things. I've got a slightly different approach now. Farm up 45 on the first visit to my farming screen, go see Zeus, on my way back enter and exit Attica real quick. This refreshes the area counter and lets me farm more. It feels way faster, especially since it seems like drops start to get more scarce the more you get (this might just be bad luck, but I swear I get less 3+ drops per kill cycle after I hit 50). I just timed a run at this where I got from game start to 90 olives in about 6:45. Take into consideration it takes about a minute to get from the screen to Zeus and back, plus the fact that I wouldn't consider this particular attempt very lucky (not particularly unlucky either though) and this is a marked improvement over a straight run to 70. So I think this is the way to go, and I'm definitely cutting out killing all the one shot enemies in my path now. Sub 30 is suddenly looking far more possible than it was a couple days ago.

OK, it seems farming directly to 80 initially the way I was doing things is in fact totally impossible.  There's apparently a cap on the number of olives that will drop in a visit to an area (as in region, not screen), or at least I had 3 back to back attempts at getting to 80 hopelessly stall at exactly 75.  Seriously, no drops in minutes of farming after hitting that amount.

But you may have noticed I said the way I [i]was[/i] doing things.  I've got a slightly different approach now.  Farm up 45 on the first visit to my farming screen, go see Zeus, on my way back enter and exit Attica real quick.  This refreshes the area counter and lets me farm more.  It feels way faster, especially since it seems like drops start to get more scarce the more you get (this might just be bad luck, but I swear I get less 3+ drops per kill cycle after I hit 50).  I just timed a run at this where I got from game start to 90 olives in about 6:45.  Take into consideration it takes about a minute to get from the screen to Zeus and back, plus the fact that I wouldn't consider this particular attempt very lucky (not particularly unlucky either though) and this is a marked improvement over a straight run to 70.  So I think this is the way to go, and I'm definitely cutting out killing all the one shot enemies in my path now.  Sub 30 is suddenly looking far more possible than it was a couple days ago.

Darkwing Duck

2010-03-05 11:56:17 pm

Highly Evolved

I wouldn't be surprised at an olive cap in an area. Also not surprised at dwindling drop rates.

Breakdown

2010-03-11 06:20:56 pm

Haters gonna hate

Well I now have a couple recording sessions under my belt on this one, and I have to say while I knew luck was going to be factor in my time, I think I underestimated just how big a factor it was going to be. In the initial going my plan is to not hope for ridiculous luck and just try to get a pretty good run on tape. I'm currently continuing from any run that gets to 90 olives in 7 minutes or less, and just about all of my keeper starts fall in the 6:30 - 7 range. I have two below, one at about 6:20, and the other at 5:35 (!). This has me looking at the unappealing prospect of either insisting on ridiculous luck all the time (which will likely drive me mad) or having to accept the very real possibility that if I get multiple runs down one may have awesome gameplay but less than stellar luck and be a good deal slower than another with awesome luck and sloppy execution. Ideally I'll get a run with both, but we'll see what happens.

And while the 5:35 was also the farthest I've gotten in a recorded attempt, the 6:20 and entirely too many of the others have ended with me falling in a pit in the first trip to Argolis. I do plan to alter my route slightly yet again and do the second round of farming after that trip. There's some tricky maneuvers and tight jumps in this stretch and losing a run there after a good farming run is amazingly frustrating. Plus, this is a little faster in terms of travel as dipping in and out of Attica takes about 5 seconds, and this also rigs it up so I only ever have to worry about setting up my farming screen when entering from the left (the difference between this and the right is surprisingly large). This'll make my reset or keep going point the visit to Hermes, from what I've been seeing so far 9:30 seems like a good high end for now (best so far is about 8:20ish, but that's the 5:35 spike).

Well I now have a couple recording sessions under my belt on this one, and I have to say while I knew luck was going to be factor in my time, I think I underestimated just how big a factor it was going to be.  In the initial going my plan is to not hope for ridiculous luck and just try to get a pretty good run on tape.  I'm currently continuing from any run that gets to 90 olives in 7 minutes or less, and just about all of my keeper starts fall in the 6:30 - 7 range.  I have two below, one at about 6:20, and the other at 5:35 (!).  This has me looking at the unappealing prospect of either insisting on ridiculous luck all the time (which will likely drive me mad) or having to accept the very real possibility that if I get multiple runs down one may have awesome gameplay but less than stellar luck and be a good deal slower than another with awesome luck and sloppy execution.  Ideally I'll get a run with both, but we'll see what happens.

And while the 5:35 was also the farthest I've gotten in a recorded attempt, the 6:20 and entirely too many of the others have ended with me falling in a pit in the first trip to Argolis.  I do plan to alter my route slightly yet again and do the second round of farming after that trip.  There's some tricky maneuvers and tight jumps in this stretch and losing a run there after a good farming run is amazingly frustrating.  Plus, this is a little faster in terms of travel as dipping in and out of Attica takes about 5 seconds, and this also rigs it up so I only ever have to worry about setting up my farming screen when entering from the left (the difference between this and the right is surprisingly large).  This'll make my reset or keep going point the visit to Hermes, from what I've been seeing so far 9:30 seems like a good high end for now (best so far is about 8:20ish, but that's the 5:35 spike).

Lykaios

2010-03-22 06:53:13 pm

Hey chip, think I might join you on this little journey. Even though you're probably going to crush me under the winged sandal of your experience as a runner, I gotta find a first run game somewhere.

Are there any particularly tricky enemies / route sections I could work on? I'm still working through the game trying to tighten my technique, as I played this for the first time today Shocked

. Let me know if I can help anywhere.

Ishmayl

Edit history:

Ishmayl: 2011-01-11 05:47:12 am

2011-01-11 05:46:38 am

So I'm reviving this thread, since it was talked about at Awesome Games Done Quick. Breakdown, what do we need to do to get you to get back on ball with this?

Boxfat

2012-10-29 09:54:31 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

This is probably suicidal, but I'm going to start practicing this. This game is too awesome to not have a run up, even if it's ridiculously difficult and I can understand why it doesn't have one.

Breakdown's already put so much work into figuring out a good route to let this go to waste.

After using the route once, I probably died several hundreds of times. I wound up going for the bracelet instead of the upgraded sword as Breakdown had suggested, and noticed that I killed the snakes in one less hit than the divine sword would have taken. Perhaps the normal sword + bracelet is stronger?

Either way, I think I prefer getting the divine sword. I need the ambrosia (I accidentally got a different one in my run and I'm pretty sure I'd just be screwed with any less health) and I can't seem to get Hades down without using the crouching lightning trick. I can get him in the right spot for wailing, but he usually finds a way to slip and hit me, which if he does, it only takes two hits from him.

I look forward to practicing more in the future, but this week's a bit busy. It's going to be one hell of a ride. Tongue

This is probably suicidal, but I'm going to start practicing this. This game is too awesome to not have a run up, even if it's ridiculously difficult and I can understand why it doesn't have one.

Breakdown's already put so much work into figuring out a good route to let this go to waste.

After using the route once, I probably died several hundreds of times. I wound up going for the bracelet instead of the upgraded sword as Breakdown had suggested, and noticed that I killed the snakes in one less hit than the divine sword would have taken. Perhaps the normal sword + bracelet is stronger?

Either way, I think I prefer getting the divine sword. I need the ambrosia (I accidentally got a different one in my run and I'm pretty sure I'd just be screwed with any less health) and I can't seem to get Hades down without using the crouching lightning trick. I can get him in the right spot for wailing, but he usually finds a way to slip and hit me, which if he does, it only takes two hits from him.

I look forward to practicing more in the future, but this week's a bit busy. It's going to be one hell of a ride. :P

Darkwing Duck

2012-10-30 12:17:53 am

Highly Evolved

Yay.

UraniumAnchor

2012-10-30 12:27:12 am

Not a walrus

How feasel hasn't picked up this game I have no idea, a difficult NES game with a lot of required grinding.

In all seriousness though this game is way overdue for a run, so good luck with it.

Boxfat

2012-10-30 12:50:55 am

Arbitrary forum emu

He did mention interest in it the other day. Perhaps some competition, which would certainly be good for the game. Wink

And I'm not sure if Dogsquirrel has a setup appropriate for SDA, but he mentioned interest in at least racing it so that's some more motivation.

I also feel like my frustration would be more justified with this than Milon's Secret Castle.

Boxfat

2012-10-30 04:36:17 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

On a whimsical fail run, I managed to get an hour and 15 minutes. And that's with many deaths and some routing derps (forgetting to pick up some items on the way). I also had a few areas that I died on purpose to practice repeatedly.

Every day this is looking more and more possible. I think that I'll be able to start recording attempts this weekend if I can work out the rest of the screens that are bugging me... and if I can finish my homework beforehand.

I'm also a little peeved about farming. I'm not sure if I have the same spot that Breakdown does, which leaves me to wonder if I'm being efficient or not. I'll probably experiment with a few different screens and see how long it takes to farm 35-45 olives.

Svenne

2012-10-30 04:51:16 pm

Smörgåsbord

Ask Crippe on SRL for races, he is one of those interested in racing this one!

Darkwing Duck

2012-10-30 06:11:02 pm

Highly Evolved

Quote from Boxfat:

On a whimsical fail run, I managed to get an hour and 15 minutes. And that's with many deaths and some routing derps (forgetting to pick up some items on the way). I also had a few areas that I died on purpose to practice repeatedly.

Every day this is looking more and more possible. I think that I'll be able to start recording attempts this weekend if I can work out the rest of the screens that are bugging me... and if I can finish my homework beforehand.

I'm also a little peeved about farming. I'm not sure if I have the same spot that Breakdown does, which leaves me to wonder if I'm being efficient or not. I'll probably experiment with a few different screens and see how long it takes to farm 35-45 olives.

There's only really the two farming areas I can think of, the one that Breakdown uses and, pardon my lack of remembering the names of the places acurately, the place you can spawn four enemies near that fountain in one of the towns.

Boxfat

2012-10-30 06:51:45 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

Apparently I hadn't read thoroughly enough into the topic. I just read this:

Quote:

Also been practicing the olive farming method. Mike actually pointed out to me the screen I planned to use isn't the best choice, so props to him for that. With the new location (third screen from the start as opposed to the fourth) you can generate like 7 or 8 of the slimes at time, and you can group them very tightly if you do it right. Basically how it goes is you cross the screen upon entering it and clear the slimes as you go, start walking back towards the center, turning back to kill the ones that appear behind and killing the ones in front. Once they stop appearing in front of you, turn around again, walk a little bit and when one spawns behind you start tapping in the direction your walking, and this generates a ton of them. It's easier to do while walking left as you can actually see the one spawn behind you, going right you kind of have to just know when it's coming, but once you get a feel for it you can rack up a ton of kills fast.

This helps quite a bit, so I think I'll practice some farming and individual screens tonight.

And thank you for the information, Svenne. I'll definitely try to get in contact with Crippe!

Apparently I hadn't read thoroughly enough into the topic. I just read this: [quote]
Also been practicing the olive farming method.  Mike actually pointed out to me the screen I planned to use isn't the best choice, so props to him for that.  With the new location (third screen from the start as opposed to the fourth) you can generate like 7 or 8 of the slimes at time, and you can group them very tightly if you do it right.  Basically how it goes is you cross the screen upon entering it and clear the slimes as you go, start walking back towards the center, turning back to kill the ones that appear behind and killing the ones in front.  Once they stop appearing in front of you, turn around again, walk a little bit and when one spawns behind you start tapping in the direction your walking, and this generates a ton of them.  It's easier to do while walking left as you can actually see the one spawn behind you, going right you kind of have to just know when it's coming, but once you get a feel for it you can rack up a ton of kills fast.[/quote]

This helps quite a bit, so I think I'll practice some farming and individual screens tonight.

And thank you for the information, Svenne. I'll definitely try to get in contact with Crippe!

JohnMcClane

2012-11-13 07:29:17 am

AKA breakyoumegama n

I am bumping this because of my interest in updates for this run.

This is a game that I won at a raffle as a kid and have played fairly extensively and beaten. I've never tried a speedrun of it, but if I did, I personally would want it to be a 100% speedrun. (All items, weapons, ambrosia, etc.) I strongly doubt there are any questions about the game that I know the answers to that you guys don't already, but my interest in seeing a run of this game is pretty high.

Boxfat

Edit history:

Boxfat: 2012-11-13 08:07:54 pm

2012-11-13 07:29:48 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

School picked up hardcore! I finally caught a break today, and this was the result:

http://www.twitch.tv/boxfat/c/1734288

EDIT: Youtube

I'm getting closer to being able to get an acceptable run, but I still have a lot of work to do!

Now if only I could catch Breakdown and get him to post a video on his farming technique. Wink

Boxfat

2012-11-16 01:58:11 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

So I'm beginning to realize just how bad the birds are in this game... They're ending more runs than I ever thought they would at some of the most heartbreaking locations.

I'm hoping I can either adjust my strategies to either adapt to the birds if they're in different spots than I'm used to or get so consistent that they always somehow spawn in just the right spots. Look at Breakdown's Tartarus video - the birds in the room with the ceiling gap jump video? I can never seem to get that pattern. Maybe continuing from that room spawns them differently than walking in, though? I haven't tested that yet.

I've finally gotten better at farming, though. As it turns out I wasn't putting enough time into the setup, which made the farming take exponentially longer. I'm actually clocking in at around the times Breakdown said he had after farming now. Smiley

Darkwing Duck

2012-12-08 05:46:16 pm

Highly Evolved

Not sure why this thread wasn't bumped to indicate a PB.

Boxfat

Edit history:

Boxfat: 2012-12-11 07:17:54 pm

Boxfat: 2012-12-11 07:15:28 pm

2012-12-11 07:14:02 pm

Arbitrary forum emu

Oh yes. I had a major 7 minute improvement to around 38 minutes or so, and shortly after a run that was 37:44!

I think my SDA goal is going to be <35 minutes with no major mistakes. Obviously I'm not going to submit a run with a bunch of minor mistakes, either.

This run was a little underwhelming, too. I'm not quite uploading this one to Youtube since I feel like I've spammed enough BoO videos there. Tongue

I think I actually cheated a bit in this run by hitting continue after missing the hardest jump in the game from the ambrosia. I didn't care too much at the time because I knew I could still beat the time deathless, but in the future I'll be "retrying" if I miss that jump.

http://www.twitch.tv/boxfat/c/1762578

My other thought is possibly transitioning to using death to my advantage, which would make two parts easier and faster. It'd change the timing for farming, though.

Boxfat

2012-12-19 01:54:35 am

Arbitrary forum emu

Another little update. I'm down to 37:05.

It seems like I get one good run in terms of farming on any given day that I do attempts. Here are the splits I'm using and what my current times are:

Talk to Zeus with 45 olives (3:31)
Return to Zeus after Argolis with 90 olives (9:38)
After defeating the hydra, get the harp (12:37)
Buy the ocarina (13:45)
Grab the first love fragment with 70 olives ready (20:16)
Buy the divine sword (23:02)
Get the love fragment in Phthia (26:27)
Get the final love fragment in Crete (29:54)
Kill that invisible sonuva... (37:05)

In my new best run, I had good farming (slightly poor execution, but amazing luck). I then shaved off about 3 minutes by not dying in Laconia while grabbing the crystal. Was happy, but not too excited considering Phthia was still down the road. And that instinct was right. I made it to the divine sword, but I died around 3 or 4 times going from there to the remaining love fragments. Cost me about a minute, I believe. I had around 3 or 4 more embarrassing deaths in Tartarus cost me around another minute.

Those are obviously very rounded figures since I finished 39 seconds faster than my pb, but I didn't save the splits for my 37:44 and was comparing against my 38 minute run. Tongue

I'll use one of my breaks at work tomorrow to highlight the video and edit this post. Surprisingly enough, birds are becoming slightly less of an issue and it's just a matter of whether or not I can get all the pieces to fall together AFTER I get a good olive farm. Sub 35 is GOING to happen. I'm a little unsure of getting the 32-33 minute run or possibly sub 30 minute run Breakdown was theorizing.

Another little update. I'm down to 37:05.

It seems like I get one good run in terms of farming on any given day that I do attempts. Here are the splits I'm using and what my current times are:

Talk to Zeus with 45 olives (3:31)
Return to Zeus after Argolis with 90 olives (9:38)
After defeating the hydra, get the harp (12:37)
Buy the ocarina (13:45)
Grab the first love fragment with 70 olives ready (20:16)
Buy the divine sword (23:02)
Get the love fragment in Phthia (26:27)
Get the final love fragment in Crete (29:54)
Kill that invisible sonuva... (37:05)

In my new best run, I had good farming (slightly poor execution, but amazing luck). I then shaved off about 3 minutes by not dying in Laconia while grabbing the crystal. Was happy, but not too excited considering Phthia was still down the road. And that instinct was right. I made it to the divine sword, but I died around 3 or 4 times going from there to the remaining love fragments. Cost me about a minute, I believe. I had around 3 or 4 more embarrassing deaths in Tartarus cost me around another minute.

Those are obviously very rounded figures since I finished 39 seconds faster than my pb, but I didn't save the splits for my 37:44 and was comparing against my 38 minute run. :P

I'll use one of my breaks at work tomorrow to highlight the video and edit this post. Surprisingly enough, birds are becoming slightly less of an issue and it's just a matter of whether or not I can get all the pieces to fall together AFTER I get a good olive farm. Sub 35 is GOING to happen. I'm a little unsure of getting the 32-33 minute run or possibly sub 30 minute run Breakdown was theorizing.

raging boxfat

2013-01-25 11:18:43 pm