are end 100%s optimal ?

Edit history:

GinKo: 2007-03-07 10:59:14 pm

2007-03-07 10:54:38 pm

I was quite impressed by Stubby's end_035 EH, but couldn't take it as optimal: how can the start be 2s slower than the ER?

So, I made these three demos some minutes ago to demonstrate that 0:34 is possible with a faster begining (up to the teleport): 34.84 killing all the fishes and the scrag (my first 34, but still I got stuck at the edge near the scrag); 34.40 same but with host_framerate 0.0025; 34.33 getting the thunderbolt but not killing the fishes. => In the end, I'm not sure if even 0:34 is indeed optimal.

I don't think I can do those through the wall killings, so here it is for someone else to try it (some mad Dane probably =)

0:35 may not be optimal, but it's obviously very hard to be improved (imo) and there's a chance the NH can also be improved likewise.

http://www.freewebs.com/supimpaquake/end%5F034.dz

PS: the hfr one uses sv_aim 0.93, which can perhaps make things easier

Thread title:

Stubgaard

2007-03-08 08:13:00 am

Hey Ho Let's Go

They're both optimal. Trust me, I've tried in HFR just as you to get 0:34, but it just wasn't do-able.

GinKo_

2007-03-09 12:07:49 am

Hmm.. my point is exactly the opposite: that 0:34.84 was done without hfr and it's not even perfect.

No offense, but there may be a difference between an awesome, very hard to be beaten demo and an optimal one.

Stubgaard

2007-03-09 07:02:43 am

Hey Ho Let's Go

You haven't taken into account that you also need to kill all the monsters in the wall as well as do the quadded rocket jump to the exit, THAT's what makes 0:34 impossible to get. If you had plenty of armor and health I'm sure there would be a way to squeeze the time down, but everything is right on the limit in that run.

As I said in my previous post, I've tried myself in HFR, and I was never able to get 0:34, so I'll stick to my statement that the demo is optimal.

Ankh

2007-03-09 11:31:09 am

Maybe I'm totaly wrong but I think what Ginko tries to say is that the part after the teleporter IS optimal but the beginning (fishes and scrag) could be better which he shows in his demo. Ginko teleports to the second part at 13.1s and Stubby at 13.8. This means that 1s improvement is possible to the current record.

Stubgaard

2007-03-09 01:26:13 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

I know what Ginko meant.

Stubgaard

2007-03-09 03:03:06 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

Also, he skips the cell packs which are needed to kill the monsters in the wall. You can skip one or two of the packs though, but not all three.

GinKo_

2007-03-11 01:34:31 am

YAY!

check out sda email box later, Mr Stubgaard-Stubborn Cheesy

/me hides from some serious slapping

btw, the NH looks much more difficult to improve, in theory one could save .6-.7 on the start, but I'm afraid that's not enough.

Stubgaard

2007-03-12 04:34:40 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

Quote:

YAY!

check out sda email box later, Mr Stubgaard-Stubborn Cheesy

/me hides from some serious slapping

I'm not stupid you know... I was well aware that 0:34 was possible, but as the sneaky bastard I am I was just trying to buy myself some time. I've been playing the map quite a bit since you showed us those test demos. I had a 35.08 with all kills and a 34.99 where one of the vores in the wall just needed one more thunderbolt shot. I even invented a brand new super cool quadded rocketjump to the exit, but I guess it was all to no avail as you beat me to the finish line. You would've tried to beat it anyway if I had said 0:34 WAS possible, so whatever I did, it would end up as a bad move. I should've just kept my mouth shut, but it's easy to be clever in hindsight.

I kick myself in the head for not making it time, but oh well, that's how it is sometimes, and there's nothing I can do about it now. I might still try and get 0:34 for personal reasons though.

This ISN'T an attack on you (GinKo) in any way, but I'm starting to feel that my 'speedrunning career' is coming to an end (no pun intended). As I stated before, I spent quite a few hours on this map and seeing it beaten minutes (literally!) before I managed to do it myself was a serious kick in the nuts, and I just can't justify being so annoyed over a game and over one of my records being beaten. Your demo was a wake-up call so to speak.

I'll finish up Qd100Qst of course, and I'll probably work on a few SDA demos I've always wanted to beat, but I reckon that's the end of the line for me. I'm not getting any younger and I'm feeling worn out from all the years of Quaking (I've been at it since the game was released). My back, and to some degree also my eyes, have been giving me lots of grief over the years and it's only getting worse. Especially my back is getting really really bad. I want to finish up in good style though, so don't expect me to quit speedrunning just yet.

I've been giving this A LOT of thinking, and I need to draw the line somewhere, or I'll just end up as the oldest guy in the world still playing Quake, and that's not my idea of success in life.

[quote]YAY! ;D check out sda email box later, Mr Stubgaard-Stubborn  :D

/me hides from some serious slapping
[/quote]

I'm not stupid you know... I was well aware that 0:34 was possible, but as the sneaky bastard I am I was just trying to buy myself some time. I've been playing the map quite a bit since you showed us those test demos. I had a 35.08 with all kills and a 34.99 where one of the vores in the wall just needed one more thunderbolt shot. I even invented a brand new super cool quadded rocketjump to the exit, but I guess it was all to no avail as you beat me to the finish line. You would've tried to beat it anyway if I had said 0:34 WAS possible, so whatever I did, it would end up as a bad move. I should've just kept my mouth shut, but it's easy to be clever in hindsight.

I kick myself in the head for not making it time, but oh well, that's how it is sometimes, and there's nothing I can do about it now. I might still try and get 0:34 for personal reasons though.

This ISN'T an attack on you (GinKo) in any way, but I'm starting to feel that my 'speedrunning career' is coming to an end (no pun intended). As I stated before, I spent quite a few hours on this map and seeing it beaten minutes (literally!) before I managed to do it myself was a serious kick in the nuts, and I just can't justify being so annoyed over a game and over one of my records being beaten. Your demo was a wake-up call so to speak.

I'll finish up Qd100Qst of course, and I'll probably work on a few SDA demos I've always wanted to beat, but I reckon that's the end of the line for me. I'm not getting any younger and I'm feeling worn out from all the years of Quaking (I've been at it since the game was released). My back, and to some degree also my eyes, have been giving me lots of grief over the years and it's only getting worse. Especially my back is getting really really bad. I want to finish up in good style though, so don't expect me to quit speedrunning just yet.

I've been giving this [b]A LOT[/b] of thinking, and I need to draw the line somewhere, or I'll just end up as the oldest guy in the world still playing Quake, and that's not my idea of success in life.

laughing_gas

2007-03-12 05:42:10 pm

Existence as you know it is over

Sorry to hear that, but there's always other games besides Quake, you know.

Midas

2007-03-12 07:03:57 pm

gött mos

Sad news

dex

2007-03-12 07:44:26 pm

Invisible avatar

Quote:

Sorry to hear that, but there's always other games besides Quake, you know.

There are no games as awesome as Quake for speedrunning though.

I believe that would be an end to some era... best ID record maker retiring...well yeah, the site as it is today is pretty much unimaginable without Stubby, and who will bring us so many great ID records after he retires?

AjAX

2007-03-12 10:30:53 pm

Even if im new to quake speedrunning, I feel sad Sad

GinKo

Edit history:

GinKo: 2007-03-13 12:04:23 am

2007-03-13 12:01:11 am

Now, there's something I wasn't expecting Cry

First of all, I'd like to make clear that it took me a lot to get this, I didn't beat it in minutes. Since I saw your 0:35 I was wondering if an improv was possible, even had a few shots at it before. Just when I made those demos I posted up there I went here to show the idea. After that, I realised I might have had a chance of getting it myself, so I spent MANY hours on it, a straight long multi-hour section on Saturday, playing over and over, killing many tousands of fishes, literaly. Coincidently, even got a 35.08 with all kills and almost gave up. As you said, a new quadded rj style was needed so that 34s was humanly achievable (given the succ rate of the other one). Even it being one of my best demos ever (if not The one), it looks crappier next to your 35. I've been trying to get an ID record for about a year and a half, it's not like I beat you in the first try, I actually never did.

I totally understand what you did about denying the possibility, and I've thought of doing the same on many occasions. I was quite ingenuous to reply your post and to call you stubborn, but I somewhat knew there was a chance that you was aware of everything and rushing to get a 0:34 (hence I was in such a hurry to get it too), really sorry for that, I guess I was kinda sneaky bastard too..

If this is a reason why you're planning to quit, I wish I hadn't sent the mail and I'd totally delete all copies of it from my HD. It's quite obvious to say you're a better player than I am, and much more obvious to say that you're more important to the community than I am. Destiny and luck sucks, I only beat you to getting 34s because of them.

Btw, you won't be the oldest speedrunner as there'll always be Morfy and mwh, but even if you do, so what? Quake shouldn't be a life goal, but something to entertain yourself on freetime, look at Ken or Trinca, they're fathers already, but that doesn't stop them from playing it once in a while. So, as long as it's fun, keep on playing [please]. And even if you do stop someday, you can always poke from time to time on #qdq to trout slap everybody Smiley

Bottom line: do whatever you think it's best for you.

Shit, I'll always feel guilty for going through this.. :-X:-X

PS: I totally agree with you all, this is extremely sad to hear Sad

He's The Greatest 100% Player evA. And I think Stubby should do another 0:34 for qd100qstlite as it's all about quality and it'd be smother than mine. Also, go for the NH on 54s, but as I said before, it should be harder then EH (no, I'm not trying to gain time or anything here, I swear to God)

Now, there's something I wasn't expecting :'(

First of all, I'd like to make clear that it took me a lot to get this, I didn't beat it in minutes. Since I saw your 0:35 I was wondering if an improv was possible, even had a few shots at it before. Just when I made those demos I posted up there I went here to show the idea. After that, I realised I might have had a chance of getting it myself, so I spent MANY hours on it, a straight long multi-hour section on Saturday, playing over and over, killing many tousands of fishes, literaly. Coincidently, even got a 35.08 with all kills and almost gave up.  As you said, a new quadded rj style was needed so that 34s was humanly achievable (given the succ rate of the other one). Even it being one of my best demos ever (if not The one), it looks crappier next to your 35. I've been trying to get an ID record for about a year and a half, it's not like I beat you in the first try, I actually never did.

I totally understand what you did about denying the possibility, and I've thought of doing the same on many occasions. I was quite ingenuous to reply your post and to call you stubborn, but I somewhat knew there was a chance that you was aware of everything and rushing to get a 0:34 (hence I was in such a hurry to get it too), really sorry for that, I guess I was kinda sneaky bastard too..

If this is a reason why you're planning to quit, I wish I hadn't sent the mail and I'd totally delete all copies of it from my HD. It's quite obvious to say you're a better player than I am, and much more obvious to say that you're more important to the community than I am.  Destiny and luck sucks, I only beat you to getting 34s because of them.

Btw, you won't be the oldest speedrunner as there'll always be Morfy and mwh, but even if you do, so what? Quake shouldn't be a life goal, but something to entertain yourself on freetime, look at Ken or Trinca, they're fathers already, but that doesn't stop them from playing it once in a while. So, as long as it's fun, keep on playing [please]. And even if you do stop someday, you can always poke from time to time on #qdq to trout slap everybody :) Bottom line: do whatever you think it's best for you.

Shit, I'll always feel guilty for going through this.. :-X:-X

PS: I totally agree with you all, this is [b]extremely[/b] sad to hear :( He's The Greatest 100% Player evA. And I think Stubby should do another 0:34 for qd100qstlite as it's all about quality and it'd be smother than mine. Also, go for the NH on 54s, but as I said before, it should be harder then EH (no, I'm not trying to gain time or anything here, I swear to God)

j0zz1e

Edit history:

j0zz1e: 2007-03-14 09:39:17 pm

2007-03-14 09:36:33 pm

hehe I think that's quite good if it takes half a year to get a first id record, dont you think Stubby? Smiley

Well I believe Stubby usually makes _quite_ hard tasks with his "hundreds" so if somebody has enough guts to break any of them, that is deserved... (imho)

And also I see the world the way that it's good if a record gets beaten again and again coz it's getting more and more sharper all the time which results a pretty mad demo at the end, no matter who has the final product. That's why it is probably the same important to check out a history behind a record of a map. my 10 cents...

oh and Stubby, never worry, you'll always be welcomed at the retired speedrunner's club, eyyy =D

Stubgaard

2007-04-02 02:54:41 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

Here's some End demos I managed to salvage from my harddisc. They're A LOT smoother than Ginko's demo, but unfortunately I never got 0:34 with all kills before I got fed up trying. Oh well, I hope someone will enjoy them anyway as I spent quite some time trying.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/quake/misc/misc_demos/end_EH_stubgaard.dz