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Edit history:
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:34:33 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:34:32 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:34:31 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:29:51 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:29:30 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:25:01 am
ExplodingCabbage: 2011-06-06 05:25:00 am
I just watched you segment 28 'beta' and there's something you seem not to know about in the bubbles room: when you're on the floor of the room, if you have bubbles in this formation:

XXXXBXXXX
XXXBXYXXX
--------------

where X is empty space, B is a bubble, Y is you and - is the floor,

you can slip through under the nearest bubble when the one on the left bursts on the floor, instead of waiting.

I'm not sure how clear my diagram/explanation is. If you don't understand, I'll just make a quick video.

Also, in my version of the game, in the room you enter at 1:18 of the video, I can shoot the purple bubbles when they're still 'faded out' and can't be jumped on. This messes stuff up but is quite possible exploitable / faster than doing the room the normal way. For example, at 1:25 I think you could immediately turn left and shoot the faded purple blob instead of jumping on the one to the right first. It also looks faster to shoot the blob at 1:33.

WTF at 3:10 you went through a purple thingy whilst going along the ceiling and didn't die?! Is that just because it had only just appeared? I've never managed to get this far before so I don't know how anything after the room with the ghosts works.
Edit history:
zoonel: 2011-06-06 07:55:37 am
Go play spacechem !
Quote:
WTF at 3:10 you went through a purple thingy whilst going along the ceiling and didn't die?!

The purple circle are not deadly untill they reach a specific alpha value for their color, you can see he goes through the purple thing while it is still very transparent. So you're safe once you reach a certain point to the right part of the screen, where the purple things have still a low alpha. this is also why you can do the room with the sets of 3 purple circles by going to the left and jumping to the roof without being hurt.
The improved segments are looking good. I'm looking forward to your second Blackcastle segment and expect my jaw to drop when I see it.
For your pleasure, here is a FAILED attempt; the fourth (or fifth?) one in which I die AFTER the ghosts room without any reason.



Yes, towards the end I was getting really nervous. I decided to not dive-bomb, which was obviously a stupid decision.


Quote from ExplodingCabbage:
I'm not sure how clear my diagram/explanation is. If you don't understand, I'll just make a quick video.

It is perfectly clear (although I had figured it out myself).
This room is so annoying! I run through it in 26-30 seconds by now, but at what price? I spend 99% of my playing time in here!
Here's the fastest route I could find for the room where you have to jump on the bubble things:
Edit history:
Arcanod: 2011-06-07 04:14:49 pm
Arcanod: 2011-06-07 09:13:06 am
Very interesting. I just tried, but sadly it's impossible to shoot the transparent bubbles in my version of the game (which is the last one, 1.17, necessary to be able to skip the boss NightSpirit, otherwise the red energy booster doesn't appear in NightWalk and it's therefore impossible to reach Grotto).
However, there is still a part of the room which can be improved, as you said in a previous post.

EDIT : BTW, you can find a sort of changelog of the game here: http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/search/label/An%20Untitled%20Story . Perhaps not exhaustive, but very informative.
Quote from Arcanod:
Very interesting. I just tried, but sadly it's impossible to shoot the transparent bubbles in my version of the game (which is the last one, 1.17, necessary to be able to skip the boss NightSpirit, otherwise the red energy booster doesn't appear in NightWalk and it's therefore impossible to reach Grotto).
However, there is still a part of the room which can be improved, as you said in a previous post.

EDIT : BTW, you can find a sort of changelog of the game here: http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/search/label/An%20Untitled%20Story. Perhaps not exhaustive, but very informative.

http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/2009/07/changes.html
Quote from Strongfox:
Quote from Arcanod:
Very interesting. I just tried, but sadly it's impossible to shoot the transparent bubbles in my version of the game (which is the last one, 1.17, necessary to be able to skip the boss NightSpirit, otherwise the red energy booster doesn't appear in NightWalk and it's therefore impossible to reach Grotto).
However, there is still a part of the room which can be improved, as you said in a previous post.

EDIT : BTW, you can find a sort of changelog of the game here: http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/search/label/An%20Untitled%20Story. Perhaps not exhaustive, but very informative.

http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/2009/07/changes.html

http://blog.mattmakesgames.com/search/label/An%20Untitled%20Story
Edit history:
Arcanod: 2011-06-07 04:15:49 pm
All right, let's call this an "open beta".  The next one will be the "release candidate", I promise. Wink
Faster than the "closed beta" by ~25,7s. The bubbles room is done in ~29,7s. I loose 5,5-6s in the last room, where I'm just pathetic (I can't post the video in the first post of the thread because of this, seriously!). Have fun!



@Strongfox: yeah, the "." of my sentence was included in the link. Thanks for pointing it out; I'll edit my post too.
Btw in segment 27, it (appears) that you could go faster by:
0:12: Double jumping into that arrow sign at the last second, would save a split second
0:15: Doing the double jump as late as possible, unless landing on the top instead of the side of the arrow helps you make the ascension?
Any luck yet?
Not yet, but here how I proceed:



The 2nd form is a pain, but the route I’m using enables to deliver the two first hits quickly and on the same target (then I improvise, but it’s not that hard). The 5th form, of course, is the real nightmare and requires both skill and luck in large amounts. The difficulty can be dramatically reduced if the two 8 directional firing spheres are falling at the same place and far away from the middle of the screen.

Also, I didn’t answer Zoonel properly when he asked about possible differences between Masterfull and Insanity: in Insanity, you must survive the 5th form during 2m (instead of 1m45 in Masterfull).
I played through this game after I have seen the thread on normal difficulty since I am neither masterful nor insane, and it so happened that on two attempts, in the 2nd stage of the final boss the flying balls aligned together and so I could score two simultaneous hits. I do not know how to reproduce this, but I deduce from it, that optionally you could hit one ball with the fireball and the other one with a bounce attack at the same time. Maybe you want to look into that.
It potentially saves >20 seconds to skip two cycles, but i guess it will be a pain in the ass to pull that off. Nevertheless, hats up, very impressive run. Especially since I must admit I had problems finishing the game with my almost 800 health points to spare.
Progress check again Cheesy
Hi!

Didn't read the whole topic, but you're run is great so far.

A run of the lowest difficulty would be interesting, as you need fewer golden orbs to get to the final boss.

A 100% run wold be nice too, maybe I'll work on it soon. Best of luck to you!
Edit history:
Creaphis: 2011-07-15 11:27:53 pm
It's cool to see a run for this game being worked on, because a while ago I actually spent some time working on this exact same run (Insanity, any%) before I ran out of steam. (The truth is that I never quite managed to unlock Insanity difficulty in the first place.) Anyways, I'm feeling a strong urge to nit-pick your run.

First, a couple questions just to satisfy my curiosity:
- Are you using the in-game timer or an external timer to time your run? The internal timer seems reliable enough as long as you're mindful of its quirks (it pauses when a "you've gained a new ability" graphic is displayed, when you're browsing the shop, and during cutscenes in which you can't move).
- What do you do after you fail a segment? The only safe way to re-attempt segments that I'm aware of is to Ctrl-alt-del your way out of the game after each death. When you quit the game from the in-game menu, your save file is automatically updated with your current time and your current crystal count, so there's a major risk of gaining crystals out of nowhere and disqualifying a segmented run.

Now comments...

Segment 1:
- I agree that the trick jump at 0:26 is quite hard, but since it's only twenty six seconds into the segment it might be worth trying anyway.
- At 2:15, there's a 1/4 chance you could take to save 2 seconds. Jump right next to DeepCannon as it fires the fourth blue fireball. If you're lucky, you'll be in front of the correct cannon barrel and you'll instakill the boss.
- The jump at 2:30 would be just a bit more perfect if you took a small hop to grab the jump powerup, then jumped from the branch all the way to the platform with the "thwomps."

Segment 2:
- You can finish the screen with the double jump upgrade a teensy bit quicker by travelling underneath the thwomp instead of slowing down to jump over it. This is hard but possible.

Segment 7:
- At 1:23 you could steer to the right and go off the center of the bottom of the screen. Then, on the next screen you can fall between the two white fish instead of passing them to the left. To get to the air bubbles you may have to jump on the pink fish but this is still slightly faster than your method.
- It's possible to make it all the way from the bubbles on the left side of the ship to the bubbles half-way through the wreckage with only 100 max air. This means that you can save lots of time by skipping the air upgrade in this segment. Once your double jump is fully upgraded it's possible to grab this air upgrade without freezing any fish, so it's best to leave it until later.

Segment 10:
- At 0:21 you fall down to a ledge before jumping again when you could simply continue your stick-slide.
- Your shortcut at 0:51 is impressive but I'm not positive that it's faster, as you can get boosted by the conveyors when taking the "intended route." For a fast way to get the thwomps out of the way, try shooting the first one with fire while you're still dive-bombing, then jump back to the ceiling and slide to the right. The second crusher will fall out of your way before you can touch it.
- At 1:11 you can get through the last four lasers and land on the ledge with just one jump + double-jump.

Segment 11:
- At the start, for a small shortcut you can freeze the left snail and jump off of it to the right red energy.
- 0:35 - It's possible to jump directly from the top ledge in this screen to the yellow energy in the screen above. By ending the segment instead of using this shortcut you lose some seconds.

Segment 13:
- You can save about three seconds here with a small sequence break. Instead of entering the ice castle the normal way, just jump down from The Curtain and catch a glimpse of the first Ice Castle save point from outside. Then, stick-slide into the library and teleport from there into the Ice Castle. If you dive-bomb from The Curtain, then you'll need to land on the ledge on the outside of the castle on the same screen as the save point so that you can get a fresh double-jump to begin the stick-slide. Otherwise, you can just fall down at normal speed past the save point and then double-jump into a stick-slide. Both methods seem to take the same amount of time.
- Another idea: instead of entering the library, you could continue on to visit the two necessary locations on Longbeach before finally teleporting back to Ice Castle from the first save point in BlackCastle. This may be the fastest route overall but I've lost my old notes and I don't remember what my calculations proved.

Segment 14:
- Another small sequence break: at 2:02 you can just barely jump to the blue button in the top left, skipping some button presses. It seems to help if you jump against the right wall, then double jump to the left at the perfect time.

Segment 17:
- I'm very skeptical that you actually need long shots. Consider that you spend ~4 seconds gathering ~100 crystals in segment four, and ~5 seconds gathering ~150 crystals in segment nine. Can long shots save you more than 9 seconds? While working on my run I just skipped the power entirely and never regretted it.

Segment 22:
- I would recommend collecting the air upgrade during this segment. You can jump to it from the top left ledge in the screen that you enter at 0:21.
- I believe I've managed to instantly disintegrate the fish at 0:24. My theory is that frozen monsters take up slightly more space than non-frozen, so if you freeze an enemy while it's very close to you then its frozen form will partially overlap with the player, causing the game to instantly destroy the monster to solve this overlap problem.

Segment 25:
- 0:18 - I never knew you could kill Thwomps by dive-bombing them, so that's cool, but it seems like it might be faster to shoot the first one with fire, move close to the second one to get it to fall, and freeze the third.
- The cash this boss drops can be gathered quickly. It might be a good idea to collect these crystals and skip the crystals dropped by a different boss, and to only go shopping some time after this segment. Long shots isn't integral here - it saves only about 1 second on torch activation.

Segment 27:
- In the last room before the save point, you could bounce off of the second arrow at 0:24 instead of at 0:26. It's a very tight maneuver but it's not too risky in a short segment like this.

Segment 28:
- Your route in the bubble room at 1:03 could still be improved. For instance, you could shoot the left-most bubble in the first line of bubbles instead of jumping on it.
- In the room that you enter at 1:21, you only need to bounce off the arrow once. After shooting the bubble, just fall down to the right and double-jump to the next bubble.
- You can dive-bomb down the shaft at 2:05 and still safely steer onto the platform at the bottom as long as you release your dive in time.
- At 3:02, it might be possible to skip the first platform and go straight to the second.

I don't mean for this to sound negative, because I'm actually really impressed so far and your boss fights are amazing! I also realize that you're probably running out of energy for this game so I don't really expect you to start from scratch. I just wanted to write my thoughts down because that's what I do.

If you ever need a verifier for this run I think I'm qualified to help Smiley
Wow, great post, Creaphis. Arcanod will either be joyously happy to think of all the potential new tricks or cry at the sight of his work being torn apart.

Quote from Creaphis:
First, a couple questions just to satisfy my curiosity:
- Are you using the in-game timer or an external timer to time your run? The internal timer seems reliable enough as long as you're mindful of its quirks (it pauses when a "you've gained a new ability" graphic is displayed, when you're browsing the shop, and during cutscenes in which you can't move).
- What do you do after you fail a segment? The only safe way to re-attempt segments that I'm aware of is to Ctrl-alt-del your way out of the game after each death. When you quit the game from the in-game menu, your save file is automatically updated with your current time and your current crystal count, so there's a major risk of gaining crystals out of nowhere and disqualifying a segmented run.


This stuff was all discussed previously, and a kind of unsatisfactory but just about acceptable solution was found, which is using a hacked version of the game which resets your crystals to theior saved value when you reload a save, to avoid inconsistencies.

Unfortunately we need to manually time because the timer doesn't reset fractions of a second when loading from the in-game menu. That is to say, if the timer is at 36.8 seconds, and you load a save with a time of 15 seconds, then the timer will change to 15.8 seconds, not to 15.0 seconds.

In retrospect this solution doesn't really feel like it's in the spirit of SDA rules (i.e. no game modification and use in-game timers wherever possible), but it's done now so meh.

As for the rest of your post: very nice nitpicks and some clever ideas in there.
Edit history:
Patashu: 2011-07-17 06:46:39 pm
I think it would actually be quicker to redo the whole run than to beat the last boss on insanity (which is 'literally impossible')
I wouldn't mind seeing the game played on a lower difficulty, because you can potentially save a lot of time by taking damage strategically. That said, I'd imagine it would also lower the amount of skill required because you could take hits where it's no faster either way... it's just easier if you take the hit.
Quote from Blazier:
I wouldn't mind seeing the game played on a lower difficulty, because you can potentially save a lot of time by taking damage strategically. That said, I'd imagine it would also lower the amount of skill required because you could take hits where it's no faster either way... it's just easier if you take the hit.


Also, fewer golden orbs are necessary on the lower difficulties. I think that a run on insanity difficulty would be the most interesting seeing as all bosses (except for the three skippable ones) have to be faced, and because when no damage is allowed the player has to play elegantly. There actually aren't many places where taking damage saves time, particularly if you take into account the extra time it takes to gather extra health pickups, so playing on a lower difficulty would mostly just allow the player to stumble through an obstacle every now and again.
Thank you very much, Creaphis, for your analysis; I appreciate a lot this kind of detailed posts. I can't respond right now (I don't have time to play, because I'm moving from one town to another) but I will, step by step, after having tested all your ideas and suggestions.

@Max Mustermann: thank you for your support. Your experience is very interesting, but seems indeed too hard (if not impossible) to reproduce.
@AdHoc: thank you. A run in a lower difficulty would probably require a long and careful planning, but I'm not really interested in it and agree with Blazier's and Creaphis' arguments. Still, a SS run in Regular difficulty would be nice. Smiley
@Patashu: ... although I'm sure the last boss could be quite easy depending of the position of the falling weapons!
I found this video that uses a shortcut to save a small amount of time at the start of the Fluffy XR-9 battle. I noticed it wasn't used in this run, so I thought it might be useful to post it here for anyone else who might speedrun this game.

Also, in the ninja battle in The Curtain, it's possible to shoot the boss twice during one stun period with the right timing. (At least if you're playing on Regular or Difficult-- I haven't tried it on any difficulties above that.)
Edit history:
Arcanod: 2013-04-01 02:34:28 pm
Arcanod: 2013-04-01 08:19:35 am
Sorry, the last segment isn't done yet. But I'm finally working on it, after more than a year!

However I have something for your enjoyment. A short story (30 seconds) called "3 frames", inspired by actual events:

I'll probably make a deaths compilation, too.

@Zeldara109: nice shortcut, thanks!

When I'll be done with the current run, I should definitely consider redoing to, to incorporate all the tricks mentionned in the thread and to correct my own stupid mistakes. I have read again Creaphis's post and it's really full of brilliant suggestions. But first, I need to take down the bad guy once and for all.

It shouldn't take long, from now on. Perhaps a few weeks.

-----

Edit 04-01-2013: dead again with the countdown at 0 seconds. The 4 first forms are nothing but a waste of time.
Edit (2): and once more. It's getting annoying...
Do you keep trying?