AGDQ 2015 Game Submissions Round 2 [locked]

2014-09-25 11:25:55 pm

Quote from ZachSK:

Quote from Reed:

Random seed by let's players at that. I know there's trying to be a balance between being about the community and about donations, but this is just 2 hours taken away from actual speedruns imo.

This was exactly my thought....This is not a marathon for let's playing, which is essentially what this is, but pretending to call it speedrunning.

It sucks that this, if it gets in, will likely be the high point in viewers....and its not going to represent speedrunning very well.

It really just depends on how well it's presented and planned. I think this could be a great idea if the runners put the work into making a basic plan, and certain tasks that need to be done. Obviously they can't create an optimized run without knowing the seed, but that won't matter if the structure is there. That's where the beauty of a run like this comes into play as you should well know from doing Lufia II AC runs that are pure RNG as well. The only drawback to this is if the run isn't well planned, and then that falls back on picking the wrong people for something like this. Hopefully that isn't even a question, but we'll see down the road.

[quote="ZachSK"][quote="Reed"]Random seed by let's players at that. I know there's trying to be a balance between being about the community and about donations, but this is just 2 hours taken away from actual speedruns imo.[/quote]

This was exactly my thought....This is not a marathon for let's playing, which is essentially what this is, but pretending to call it speedrunning.

It sucks that this, if it gets in, will likely be the high point in viewers....and its not going to represent speedrunning very well.[/quote]
It really just depends on how well it's presented and planned.  I think this could be a great idea if the runners put the work into making a basic plan, and certain tasks that need to be done.  Obviously they can't create an optimized run without knowing the seed, but that won't matter if the structure is there.  That's where the beauty of a run like this comes into play as you should well know from doing Lufia II AC runs that are pure RNG as well.  The only drawback to this is if the run isn't well planned, and then that falls back on picking the wrong people for something like this.  Hopefully that isn't even a question, but we'll see down the road.

CaneofPacci

Edit history:

CaneofPacci: 2014-09-25 11:30:22 pm

2014-09-25 11:29:26 pm

So does this mean Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories has a chance to appear in future marathons?

I have no name

2014-09-25 11:31:11 pm

Obscure games ftw

I personally am a huge fan of reaction-type speedruns: where you have a basic plan, but the specifics are so random all you can do is adapt, and adapt quickly. The split second decisions are a lot of fun to make while playing, and to see made while watching, especially if the runner(s) explain why they made a decision that they made.

In this case, for AGDQ, the Minecraft run is set to be impressive to a general audience, and to the speedrunning crowd for that very reason: if there's not branding and "lol not real speedrun". Yes, random seed isn't exactly the kind of thing worth sitting down and grinding out an amazing run, but for a less Super Serious enviroment, the fact that even with the massive randomness a semi-consistent time can be produced makes it a good fit.

Quote from CaneofPacci:

So does this mean Yu-Gi-Oh! Forbidden Memories has a chance?

If it was consistent there'd be arguments (NG+ is, but it's uninteresting but there's no tension).

dwangoAC

Edit history:

dwangoAC: 2014-09-25 11:34:54 pm

2014-09-25 11:34:23 pm

Keeper of TASBot

I agree that Minecraft speedruns are not what SDA is known for historically but at the same time if done well it can definitely be entertaining - it can be entertaining if the seed is horrible because of overcoming the odds, it can be entertaining if the seed is amazing because of the possibility of beating records, and if it's somewhere in the middle it can hopefully be entertaining from good commentary and explanations of what tactics are in use. Take note that I am biased as I'm also representing a speedrunning community that falls outside of SDA; for my part, I am looking forward to continued corroboration between TASVideos and SDA and I am hopeful for the same with the Minecraft community.

Kefka14

2014-09-25 11:39:39 pm

I have something to add that might help with time. My Sneak King any% can be lowered to 25 minutes instead of 30. I know its not much, but its something. I've had a few marathon runs recently and they have yet to go over 21 minutes.

KirbyGoPracticeGrandAbyss

2014-09-26 12:47:28 am

I'd like to express my incredible disappointment in Metroid Prime 2 not making it past the cuts.

In order to make this up to the Prime 2 community, I would like to request that Mike does a Prime 2 run on his stream.

Also, to make up for lost revenue to the Prime 2 community, Mike should do seven additional Prime 2 runs, for a total of eight Prime 2 runs.

Thanks for your time.

SSBMstuff

Edit history:

SSBMstuff: 2014-09-26 01:03:28 am

2014-09-26 01:02:17 am

PS1 is immortal

I realize decisions are made, and posting here will do nothing. But here goes!

I am really happy to see a good friend of mine's run, Roach788's Crash Bandicoot 2 any% (No Game Over Abuse), making it into the final cuts. But I have to say, the clear-as-day tradeoff that took place here leaves me with a fleeting smile.

I could have given an enormous list of reasons why I feel that 100% should have been picked, but I'll spare you. I just highlighted them all and pressed backspace. I won't throw anybody under the bus; all I can say is NoGO will be great -- and on behalf of the Crash community, thanks for keeping it in -- but if you want one of the most passion-filled, awe-inspiring, Trihex-redeeming runs with pinpoint commentary from guys who have been doing their thing for 3+ years, you'll add 100% as a bonus game donation incentive. Please consider, if that's even a tentative possibility.

I do realize the game communities should really talk amongst themselves and decide what to submit, so we're not putting the pressure on the marathon organizers to make the right decision. The decision should be made about games, not categories. I feel like the last couple GDQs, the Spyro/Crash people in particular have had really bad communication with submissions, and I apologize, again, on our behalf. Maybe one day we'll figure it out Wink

I realize decisions are made, and posting here will do nothing. But here goes!

I am really happy to see a good friend of mine's run, Roach788's Crash Bandicoot 2 any% (No Game Over Abuse), making it into the final cuts. But I have to say, the clear-as-day tradeoff that took place here leaves me with a fleeting smile.

I could have given an enormous list of reasons why I feel that 100% should have been picked, but I'll spare you. I just highlighted them all and pressed backspace. I won't throw anybody under the bus; all I can say is NoGO will be great -- and on behalf of the Crash community, thanks for keeping it in -- but if you want one of the most passion-filled, awe-inspiring, Trihex-redeeming runs with pinpoint commentary from guys who have been doing their thing for 3+ years, you'll add 100% as a bonus game donation incentive. [b]Please[/b] consider, if that's even a tentative possibility.

I do realize the [i]game[/i] communities should really talk amongst themselves and decide what to submit, so we're not putting the pressure on the marathon organizers to make the right decision. The decision should be made about games, not categories. I feel like the last couple GDQs, the Spyro/Crash people in particular have had really bad communication with submissions, and I apologize, again, on our behalf. Maybe one day we'll figure it out ;)

wersterlobe

2014-09-26 02:05:54 am

I'm really surprised Pokemon Gold/Silver any% made it past Round 2, given the previous (and correct) reluctance to put in more than 1 mainseries Pokemon game, along with the fact that it was just done at SGDQ2014 and absolutely nothing about the run has changed. Just an odd decision, it really doesn't seem to have anything going for it (unless I'm reading the schedule wrong and this is somehow a bidwar?? I would still be surprised by that decision)

Other than that, the schedule actually looks really good. Best I've seen yet, great job so far.

AlteisenRiese

2014-09-26 03:34:10 am

Old Iron Giant

Shame that Vanquish and God Hand didn't make the cut again Sad

Countneko

2014-09-26 08:31:19 am

And here I'd thought Werster would be happy about more Pokemonz in the marathon. Tongue

For what it's worth I don't really mind there being more than one main title of Pokemon on the schedule. There's how many Mario titles on the schedule? Tongue

I know RPGs like Pokemon are necessarily slower paced, but the Pokemon games can be a good watch, have a good audience and Pokemon in particular is popular and big on donations and potential for donation incentives.

halfcoordinated

2014-09-26 08:38:49 am

One hand is enough.

If your primary reason for rejecting Vanquish is the difficulty setting, I do wish you would reconsider it. I run the game on casual not for the game to be easy, but instead for pacing and entertainment value. Casual difficulty provides a focus on the movement, greater weapon variety, and more viable speedtech. In all of the online marathons I have done so far, not once have I see any complaints about the difficulty being set to casual. I see the opposite instead, with viewers being impressed with just how fast-paced this game can be.

Normal difficulty adds nothing of interest to the run, forcing some additional cover usage and slower approaches in many sections, as well as removing some skips and interesting weapon tactics. Overall just a slower run that would be in many ways be very similar to the Casual one, with a less interesting pace. Forcing an increase to Normal serves no objective positive purpose to the run itself.

Hard difficulty at least does force you to use different strategies, but it overstays it's welcome due to weapons such as the lock-on laser and assault rifle becoming relatively ineffective (and the AR is important to have, as it's melee attack is used for movement!) and lowering the overall weapon variety. A majority of skips, including QTE skips, are not possible on this difficulty due to enemies having too much health. In many areas a run at this difficulty would look much more like a standard TPS than usual; forcing cover usage and just pouring bullets into resistant enemies. Yes, you can do some impressive things with invincibility frames from dodging, but eventually you have to stop and shoot (a lot). A run using any sort of interesting tactics at this difficulty would not truly be marathon safe, there are too many ways for the game to easily pick you off.

God Hard difficulty speedruns in single segment is simply out of the question.

My apologies to everyone for being that guy that defends his own run.

If your primary reason for rejecting Vanquish is the difficulty setting, I do wish you would reconsider it. I run the game on casual not for the game to be easy, but instead for pacing and entertainment value. Casual difficulty provides a focus on the movement, greater weapon variety, and more viable speedtech. In all of the online marathons I have done so far, not once have I see any complaints about the difficulty being set to casual.  I see the opposite instead, with viewers being impressed with just how fast-paced this game can be.

Normal difficulty adds nothing of interest to the run,  forcing some additional cover usage and slower approaches in many sections, as well as removing some skips and interesting weapon tactics. Overall just a slower run that would be in many ways be very similar to the Casual one, with a less interesting pace. Forcing an increase to Normal serves no objective positive purpose to the run itself.

Hard difficulty at least does force you to use different strategies, but it overstays it's welcome due to weapons such as the lock-on laser and assault rifle becoming relatively ineffective (and the AR is important to have, as it's melee attack is used for movement!) and lowering the overall weapon variety. A majority of skips, including QTE skips, are not possible on this difficulty due to enemies having too much health. In many areas a run at this difficulty would look much more like a standard TPS than usual; forcing cover usage and just pouring bullets into resistant enemies. Yes, you can do some impressive things with invincibility frames from dodging, but eventually you have to stop and shoot (a lot). A run using any sort of interesting tactics at this difficulty would not truly be marathon safe, there are too many ways for the game to easily pick you off.

God Hard difficulty speedruns in single segment is simply out of the question.

My apologies to everyone for being that guy that defends his own run.

Alko

2014-09-26 09:40:19 am

Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^

Quote from bangerra:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Marathon is saved, get HYPED! =D

Quote from Cool Matty:

Also, a small change to the all submissions page: it no longer shows rejects for performance reasons. One can deduce that if it's no longer listed, it's a reject Tongue

I know it's probably extremely low priority a request, but is it possible to make a sub-page that still lists the rejects? I haven't been following the list much, so I don't know which runs I would have to look out for. A page only showing rejects should improve performance of the main page, right?

BroBuzz

Edit history:

BroBuzz: 2014-09-26 11:14:24 am

2014-09-26 09:56:08 am

Quote from Reed:

Random seed by let's players at that. I know there's trying to be a balance between being about the community and about donations, but this is just 2 hours taken away from actual speedruns imo.

Pretty much. I get having a few mainstream games to draw in donations, but having it take up 2 hours of the actual marathon, along with being a category that seems to rely almost entirely on RNG, is too much

Bismuth

2014-09-26 10:32:49 am

Worthless categories WR master

I'd like to say, first, I don't even know the guys, GiantWaffle and BaconDonut. My opinion is perfectly unbiased.

What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.

Did you know Moltov isn't a speedrunner? He's a let's player. That's right, MoltovMarioWorld on YouTube used to be a channel mostly about wacky let's plays of SMW hacks. Against all odds, this let's player became one of the top 5 OoT speedrunners in the world and held multiple world records. But since he's a let's player, obviously all his runs are just about trying to be funny and running around in circles or making bad jokes while standing in front of a puzzle he can't solve.

What I'm trying to say is, someone doing let's plays makes literally no difference at all in their ability to speedrun a game. Considering "let's players" as an inferior kind of gamer that cannot speedrun properly is nothing but elitist and downright ignorant.

I'd like to say, first, I don't even know the guys, GiantWaffle and BaconDonut. My opinion is perfectly unbiased.

What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.

Did you know Moltov isn't a speedrunner? He's a let's player. That's right, MoltovMarioWorld on YouTube used to be a channel mostly about wacky let's plays of SMW hacks. Against all odds, this let's player became one of the top 5 OoT speedrunners in the world and held multiple world records. But since he's a let's player, obviously all his runs are just about trying to be funny and running around in circles or making bad jokes while standing in front of a puzzle he can't solve.

What I'm trying to say is, someone doing let's plays makes literally no difference at all in their ability to speedrun a game. Considering "let's players" as an inferior kind of gamer that cannot speedrun properly is nothing but elitist and downright ignorant.

z1mb0bw4y

2014-09-26 10:35:41 am

Gets the cake.

I'm gonna throw myself in front of the firing squad here and say that one of the runs I'm MOST excited for is the Minecraft random seed coop run. I think the banter during the run will be justification enough for it to hold a solid spot, and the donations that those two runners are going to bring in for a minecraft run will be staggering.

Also hoping to see some hilarious deaths, but maybe that's just me being a terrible person =P

Mystery

Edit history:

Mystery: 2014-09-26 10:37:07 am

2014-09-26 10:35:56 am

Quote from Bismuth:

What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.

This is absolute nonsense and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A speedrunner can also be a let's player. A let's player can also be a speedrunner.
Furthermore, a let's play does not necessarily mean running around in random fashion, not knowing where to go. Some let's plays do that (often called blind ones), but others are playing games they are familiar with. A let's play is usually casual, so it is not a speedrun, but it does not necessarily mean what you say it is.
Please correct your facts first before pursing this argument.

[quote="Bismuth"]What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.[/quote]
This is absolute nonsense and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A speedrunner can also be a let's player. A let's player can also be a speedrunner.
Furthermore, a let's play does not necessarily mean running around in random fashion, not knowing where to go. Some let's plays do that (often called blind ones), but others are playing games they are familiar with. A let's play is usually casual, so it is not a speedrun, but it does not necessarily mean what you say it is.
Please correct your facts first before pursing this argument.

z1mb0bw4y

2014-09-26 10:36:41 am

Gets the cake.

Quote from Mystery:

Quote from Bismuth:

What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.

This is absolute nonsense and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A speedrunner can also be a let's player. A let's player can also be a speedrunner.
Furthermore, a let's play does not necessarily mean running around in random fashion, not knowing where to go.
Please correct your facts first before pursing this argument.

that was his point >_>

[quote="Mystery"][quote="Bismuth"]What really bothers me is how a lot of you guys refer to them as "let's players", like it's what defines them. Like their only ability in life is to do Let's Plays, and they cannot play a game in any other manner than being Pewdiepies. It's like, a game being run by a "let's player" (said with disdain) is gonna be unoptimized with no routing, glitchless, full of mistakes, the let's player is not going to know where to go, and he'll run around screaming trying to be funny. This is what I think most are imagining right now. A "let's player" and a "speedrunner" are two completely different people that can only do one or the other.[/quote]
This is absolute nonsense and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A speedrunner can also be a let's player. A let's player can also be a speedrunner.
Furthermore, a let's play does not necessarily mean running around in random fashion, not knowing where to go.
Please correct your facts first before pursing this argument.[/quote]

that was his point >_>

TheMG2

2014-09-26 10:37:16 am

Quote from Mystery:

This is absolute nonsense and you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. A speedrunner can also be a let's player. A let's player can also be a speedrunner.
Furthermore, a let's play does not necessarily mean running around in random fashion, not knowing where to go.
Please correct your facts first before pursing this argument.

That was the point. That most people think that, even though its not true.

Mystery

Edit history:

Mystery: 2014-09-26 10:40:11 am

Mystery: 2014-09-26 10:38:27 am

Mystery: 2014-09-26 10:38:25 am

2014-09-26 10:37:54 am

Oh, sorry, it seems I didn't read correctly! >_<
Very sorry about that. Let's point it at the nay sayers instead Smiley

Oh, and for the record, I'm neutral on the issue.

TimpZ

2014-09-26 10:38:44 am

I think people should judge the Minecraft runners based on their VOD submitted to the ADGQ submission page instead of theorizing how it could go or how they'd handle it. Personally I didn't find it enjoyable at all but that's just my opinion.

DrCoolGuy

2014-09-26 10:39:32 am

Just a guy

To be fair, Moltov has also played OoT with his controller absolutely lathered in lots of delicious honey.

coolkid

2014-09-26 10:45:22 am

aw w crap no strider *hiryu shows up & slices every1 then disappears in a smoke cloud*

kirbymastah

2014-09-26 10:46:14 am

<(^_^)>

As far as I know, people aren't saying LPers and speedrunners are mutually exclusive (in fact, I hate that LPers are made fun of all the time in speedrunning, and I think that attitude needs to be changed, but that's off-topic-ish). But people who know the two runners and have watched their streams claim that they don't do any speedruns at all nor take it seriously, they only care about popularity for themselves to "run" minecraft. Again, this is primarily what many, many people have said; I don't claim this since I don't know anything about them and thus I'm not entirely opposed to it.

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2014-09-26 10:57:44 am

2014-09-26 10:50:02 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

As far as I know, people aren't saying LPers and speedrunners are mutually exclusive (in fact, I hate that LPers are made fun of all the time in speedrunning, and I think that attitude needs to be changed, but that's off-topic-ish). But people who know the two runners and have watched their streams claim that they don't do any speedruns at all nor take it seriously, they only care about popularity for themselves to "run" minecraft. Again, this is primarily what many, many people have said; I don't claim this since I don't know anything about them and thus I'm not entirely opposed to it.

I don't see how you could actually trust this bit of information. Sounds like a rumor if I ever saw one.

General Heinz

Edit history:

General Heinz: 2014-09-26 11:18:14 am

2014-09-26 11:15:41 am

well at least sapphire still has half a snowball's chance in hell of getting in from the waitlist Tongue

either me or marcus would really love to run it for the marathon, as i think it's easily the most technical/entertaining main series pokemon game. i hope there wouldn't be too much hesitation to substitute it in should the opportunity arise just because there are already some pokemon games being run, especially because as werster pointed out, gold was just recently done, and i believe the other categories are much more well-known amongst viewers than sapphire any%, which i would really love to see people get a chance to learn more about.

either way, hype schedule, sure it involves a lot of tough decisions. keep it up dudes.