AGDQ 2015 Game Submissions - Due date is September 3rd 11:59 EDT [locked]

2014-08-21 11:39:07 pm

Quote from zewing:

Maybe we should always have a slot open for a mmx, zelda, or mario and leave the runners name blank so that it can be filled in later.

Did you even read what I said? I didn't say that famous games should be in, I said that the organizers already have all the informations they need about them, and if Caleb submits X1 (for example) they can then decide "do we want the run in or not?" without having to do some extensive research about it.

But the fact that you would ask andrewg to make a serious pitch for smb1 makes me think that i'm talking to a wall.

CVagts

2014-08-21 11:39:34 pm

"Let's put a SMILE on that face!"

As someone who runs and has submitted obscurer games, I don't really see it as favoritism. Obviously there will be some bias towards certain kinds of speedruns, and if there's nothing new to say about a game, there doesn't need to be much of a pitch. And just because it was accepted now doesn't necessarily mean it will be accepted for the final schedule. It's something that has obviously done well, so they want to consider it for the final schedule.

And personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a run video being required for submission. Even if it adds nothing to a SMB3/MMX submission, at least you have it there for reference.

zewing

2014-08-21 11:40:36 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

This brick wall at least understands the concept of fairness

z1mb0bw4y

2014-08-21 11:42:13 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from zewing:

This brick wall at least understands the concept of fairness

You know what's not fair? Cancer. You know what's good? Raising money for cancer research. That's what the event is about, not giving little Jimmy his Barbie Horse Adventure speedrun.

zewing

2014-08-21 11:43:13 pm

just( •_•)>⌐■-■ ..... (⌐■_■)wing it

Literally talking to a guy who has more of a reason to attend AGDQ for cancer. At least Jimmy followed the guidelines and made a pitch.

Zehal

Edit history:

Zehal: 2014-08-21 11:45:07 pm

Zehal: 2014-08-21 11:44:45 pm

2014-08-21 11:44:01 pm

Quote from Kirua:

Quote from zewing:

Maybe we should always have a slot open for a mmx, zelda, or mario and leave the runners name blank so that it can be filled in later.

Did you even read what I said? I didn't say that famous games should be in, I said that the organizers already have all the informations they need about them, and if Caleb submits X1 (for example) they can then decide "do we want the run in or not?" without having to do some extensive research about it.

But the fact that you would ask andrewg to make a serious pitch for smb1 makes me think that i'm talking to a wall.

Hey I made a serious pitch for my smb1 he should too :<

In all seriousness though I can see where both sides are coming from. It's true that the game and runner are insanely popular amongst most of the community; however, that doesn't mean they can just do it so nonchalantly. Nothing against Caleb, but that shows a somewhat lack of interest, at least from my point of view. The pitch is there(to the best of my knowledge) to just show the organizers what exactly they can bring to the table. Yes, Caleb is cool and all, but perhaps a new face could bring in some new viewers and thus new possible donations, which is what it's all about. If a new face were to show up, which of the two would a boss usually pick; the answer is the one who showed more effort and drive to help out with the event.

Again, nothing against Caleb since I know people will take it as such, but that applies to anyone, not just him.

/opinion

[quote="Kirua"][quote="zewing"] Maybe we should always have a slot open for a mmx, zelda, or mario and leave the runners name blank so that it can be filled in later. [/quote]

Did you even read what I said? I didn't say that famous games should be in, I said that the organizers already have all the informations they need about them, and if Caleb submits X1 (for example) they can then decide "do we want the run in or not?" without having to do some extensive research about it.

But the fact that you would ask andrewg to make a serious pitch for smb1 makes me think that i'm talking to a wall.[/quote]

Hey I made a serious pitch for my smb1 he should too :<

In all seriousness though I can see where both sides are coming from. It's true that the game and runner are insanely popular amongst most of the community; however, that doesn't mean they can just do it so nonchalantly. Nothing against Caleb, but that shows a somewhat lack of interest, at least from my point of view. The pitch is there(to the best of my knowledge) to just show the organizers what exactly they can bring to the table. Yes, Caleb is cool and all, but perhaps a new face could bring in some new viewers and thus new possible donations, which is what it's all about. If a new face were to show up, which of the two would a boss usually pick; the answer is the one who showed more effort and drive to help out with the event.

Again, nothing against Caleb since I know people will take it as such, but that applies to anyone, not just him.

/opinion

Marlie Tang

2014-08-21 11:46:23 pm

Hi I'm Kryssstal

*uses a straw to suck the small bit remaining of Berry Blendz smoothie (Fruit Kiss flavor - beautiful watermelon, strawberry, orange, banana, and vanilla yogurt!) rather loudly, similar to people slurping noodles in Japan, almost as if to drown out the sound of zewing posts*

z1mb0bw4y

2014-08-21 11:47:47 pm

Gets the cake.

Quote from zewing:

Literally talking to a guy who has more of a reason to attend AGDQ for cancer. At least Jimmy followed the guidelines and made a pitch.

Jimmy could have also had a shitty pitch. That just would have made his shitty game even less likely to get in.

mashystrr

2014-08-21 11:57:21 pm

I assume waitlist is just one of the ways to cope with multiple runners that will be sorted out later? Also, I would like an explanation for why Rocket: Robot on Wheels was rejected so I know what I can improve upon for next time.

Cool Matty

2014-08-22 12:54:24 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Just a minor update:

The full submissions listing now includes total time (using the longest category per submission), and clicking a button in the legend will jump you to the start of that status.

Tterraj42

2014-08-22 12:56:18 am

Games!

Nice! I was just wishing that was a feature. Thanks Matty Smiley

mike89

2014-08-22 12:57:31 am

SEGA Junkie

I'm assuming this also means it double-counts submissions for the same game?

(Or quintuple-counts in the case of DKC2 lol)

Cool Matty

2014-08-22 01:06:49 am

Crawlathon WR, get down on my level.

Quote from mike89:

I'm assuming this also means it double-counts submissions for the same game?

(Or quintuple-counts in the case of DKC2 lol)

For races you mean? Yeah, it has no logic for eliminating duplicate submissions (would be extremely unreliable since everyone has their own way of naming a game).

EvenSteven02

2014-08-22 01:30:06 am

Stay frosty my friends!

For the duplicates, I am very interested in seeing how DKC2 (6 accepted, 1 waitlist) and Majora's Mask (1 100%, 2 any %, 1 any%glitches) will be combined and/or narrowed down.

Svenne

2014-08-22 02:18:48 am

Smörgåsbord

An explanation on why Super Mario Bros. 2 and the race idea got rejected would be nice!

IsraeliRD

2014-08-22 03:01:40 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Quote from z1mb0bw4y:

I'm really sad that marble blast got flat out rejected. Other than the fact that the game is a ball-roller without monkeys, imo it's a more entertaining and skillful game than any of the monkey ball games. The overall pace of the game is faster and the powerups add a cool mechanic to mix it up. I honestly think it should be reconsidered.

55 minutes for 60 MBU levels is a terrible estimate. I'd not let it go over 35 minutes for unmodded and if modded it should be dropped by another 2-3 minutes at the least, and given 30 minutes if you do serious practice.
Also consider that such speedruns also go for fastest real-time and ignore the Time Travel items (stop the clock), which could be why this estimate was made.

Furthermore: Xelna (easily #1 in MBG) streamed a couple of days ago a Marble Blast Gold speedrun which included ALL 100 levels and did it in 56 minutes. He did not play the game for more than a year, and most of the levels for longer than that. He did some disastrous mistakes, WTF-are-you-doing routes that were way too long and sometimes went in-game instead of real-time and also tried for a few nasty hard tricks which shouldn't be done in RTA. We're talking about 100 levels and they're easily way harder and longer than MBU, real time or not.

[quote="z1mb0bw4y"]I'm really sad that marble blast got flat out rejected. Other than the fact that the game is a ball-roller without monkeys, imo it's a more entertaining and skillful game than any of the monkey ball games. The overall pace of the game is faster and the powerups add a cool mechanic to mix it up. I honestly think it should be reconsidered.[/quote]

55 minutes for 60 MBU levels is a terrible estimate. I'd not let it go over 35 minutes for unmodded and if modded it should be dropped by another 2-3 minutes at the least, and given 30 minutes if you do serious practice.
Also consider that such speedruns also go for fastest real-time and ignore the Time Travel items (stop the clock), which could be why this estimate was made.

Furthermore: Xelna (easily #1 in MBG) streamed a couple of days ago a Marble Blast Gold speedrun which included ALL 100 levels and did it in 56 minutes. He did not play the game for more than a year, and most of the levels for longer than that. He did some disastrous mistakes, WTF-are-you-doing routes that were way too long and sometimes went in-game instead of real-time and also tried for a few nasty hard tricks which shouldn't be done in RTA. We're talking about 100 levels and they're easily way harder and longer than MBU, real time or not.

Eosin

2014-08-22 03:46:27 am

A couple of questions: Have any females ever played in the event? Have any cancer doctors played in the event? I ask because I'm both those things. If that's unique enough to bring some publicity and raise some money, I'll do a submission. Thanks!

Mystery

2014-08-22 03:54:57 am

Quote from Eosin:

A couple of questions: Have any females ever played in the event?

Yes. Both genders are welcome to GDQs. Don't worry about gender, and stuff like that. If you like to run a game and want to do it for an audience, then by all means, do a submission. The rules are "basically" have fun. Don't let other factors decide if it's worth to do it or not. Anyone is welcome to submit games.

OtakuSRL

2014-08-22 04:26:37 am

< ^ > < ^ >

Quote from Eosin:

A couple of questions: Have any females ever played in the event? Have any cancer doctors played in the event? I ask because I'm both those things. If that's unique enough to bring some publicity and raise some money, I'll do a submission. Thanks!

I'd really love to see a doctor have a run, obviously it doesn't have to be a HUGE thing, however I think the audience would enjoy it, hearing about your experiences, etc.. As for the gender thing, don't worry about it! There have been many females that have gone (and are going) to the events and that run games.

OtakuSRL

2014-08-22 04:31:54 am

< ^ > < ^ >

Oh, and I never got an answer for my question due to a large discussion going on when I posted it, which is understandable. Sad

Quote from OtakuSRL:

With games / runs that have another runner involved (such as Co-Op, two player, etc.), are runs put on hold / not touched until the other runner submits? Just curious, as it was touched on early in the thread regarding two people.

If anybody has any insight, that would be great! Thank you very much!

Mr.E

Edit history:

Mr.E: 2014-08-22 05:12:01 am

Mr.E: 2014-08-22 05:11:07 am

Mr.E: 2014-08-22 05:09:21 am

2014-08-22 05:07:06 am

roar and stuff !!

RE: While I understand in context the whole "I'm a beast" is perfectly understandable, the submission page is public. For any random outsider that is interested in the upcoming AGDQ and getting an early scope on some of what's going to be run, the fact that THAT serves as an acceptable run description is simply unprofessional and makes AGDQ look bad.

At any rate, I'm mostly here to throw my hat in the ring for Claude/FFT. I'll try not to take up too much space here considering it's already been beaten to death but let my words serve as an addition to the totality of support for it. I'll preface it with my credentials: As a speedrunner, I have none. I'm your average marathon viewer, just a guy in his 20's who loves video games. I'm showing my support now not because of Claude but because, as a more casual fan and viewer of past AGDQ's, I was simply not so aware of the issue in the past.

[FFT intensifies; turn back now if you dgaf]

I honestly don't see any good reason to reject FFT at this point other than "it's long," which is a concern but not inherently a run-killer. TriHex's Yoshi's Island was one of the most well-executed and well-commentated runs of AGDQ 2014, estimated three hours, and the token endcap RPG at the end of marathons are consistently some of the biggest $$$-bringers, which are generally even longer. So the question is what FFT brings that makes it worthy of being allowed to take up such a long time then.

Popularity/nostalgia is probably the biggest thing that is pulling in viewers and thus their donations. Much fewer people are tuning in to watch runs of obscure games they've never heard of before, let alone played. They might watch because they have nothing better to do, or was already watching from earlier and decided to keep going, or they tune in mid-run and happen to be captivated by the current action on screen. But your Marios, Zeldas, your marathon staples like Metroid/Megaman are actively getting people planning to tune in and I think FFT is pretty close to that crowd. It's got Final Fantasy in the title, the game itself is pretty popular (less so than the mainline games but more so than lesser spinoffs like CC) and as a huge bonus, it's never been run at AGDQ before. Even veteran viewers and repeat donators can get hyped for this run, not just new faces! That said, this was clearly not a big concern for FFT...

Cutscenes? They aren't any more boring than 3D Zelda's constant running across Hyrule/Termina/whatever Field (or god forbid Wind "Sailing Simulator" Waker). Very few games are literally 100% action, i.e. almost all have some slow periods or downtime, and FFT is actually fairly well paced: there's a little bit between most story battles and a little more between each of the four chapters. There's maybe two cutscenes that even surpass two minutes of time. They're actually less boring since it gives Claude time to generalize the plot to refresh the minds of people who haven't played FFT in 10+ years and help people follow along who have never played at all, which is important because this is a game where the story matters (and is complicated!) and it helps viewers put the action into context, and explain what he's doing outside of mid-battle where it takes a backseat to concentrating on execution.

The gameplay of No Math is highly varied, much more exciting to watch than Any% (i.e. Math%, which was part of the problem with past FFT submissions). Even if you can't appreciate the subtleties of Claude adjusting strategies on the fly because a random enemy with weird compat/equips/abilities made things slightly annoying, any casual viewer can appreciate the diversity of moving pictures on their screen. I mean yeah to some extent "what's going on is generally the same" but not really: you've got multiple summons (easily distinguished from each other unlike Draw Out), multiple sword skills, the occasional Black Magic, and even some straight-up physical attacking. And it's done in a way that makes a hard game look easy, but not boringly easy like instantly killing every enemy on the battlefield before they get a turn (i.e. Math Skill). For a five-hour RPG run, it's pretty captivating.

And honestly, I don't even know why potential donation incentives are a worry. If the game and runner are otherwise worthy of inclusion, which at this point FFT/Claude are about as worthy as it can get, you can come up with donation incentives later. The first and most important step to getting donations is to make sure people are tuning in at all, which a good run with good commentary will ensure, because that's more potential wallets for money to fly out of. While few people will donate purely out of the goodness of their hearts, many people are happy to donate just to hear their message read aloud on stream in front of tens of thousands of people. Then you've got five months to figure out other donation incentives and let's face it, like the previous most anything works since people realize it's for a good cause. First off, naming the generic units is pretty huge as many others have already noted here. But all those little crap options like buying the flower, choosing a birthday within the necessary one-month window, etc. will still have some pull. Blindfolded final boss? Sure, if Claude is offering it. Make him do Bethla South Wall instead of North Wall! You can always do some item giveaways if you feel the need to pad but it's not like there's a major shortage of options.

...I did a pretty bad job of being brief.

RE: While I understand in context the whole "I'm a beast" is perfectly understandable, the submission page is public. For any random outsider that is interested in the upcoming AGDQ and getting an early scope on some of what's going to be run, the fact that THAT serves as an acceptable run description is simply unprofessional and makes AGDQ look bad.

At any rate, I'm mostly here to throw my hat in the ring for Claude/FFT. I'll [i]try[/i] not to take up too much space here considering it's already been beaten to death but let my words serve as an addition to the totality of support for it. I'll preface it with my credentials: As a speedrunner, I have none. I'm your average marathon viewer, just a guy in his 20's who loves video games. I'm showing my support now not because of Claude but because, as a more casual fan and viewer of past AGDQ's, I was simply not so aware of the issue in the past.

[b][FFT intensifies; turn back now if you dgaf][/b]

I honestly don't see any good reason to reject FFT at this point other than "it's long," which is a concern but not inherently a run-killer. TriHex's Yoshi's Island was one of the most well-executed and well-commentated runs of AGDQ 2014, estimated three hours, and the token endcap RPG at the end of marathons are consistently some of the biggest $$$-bringers, which are generally even longer. So the question is what FFT brings that makes it worthy of being allowed to take up such a long time then.

Popularity/nostalgia is probably the biggest thing that is pulling in viewers and thus their donations. Much fewer people are tuning in to watch runs of obscure games they've never [i]heard of[/i] before, let alone played. They might watch because they have nothing better to do, or was already watching from earlier and decided to keep going, or they tune in mid-run and happen to be captivated by the current action on screen. But your Marios, Zeldas, your marathon staples like Metroid/Megaman are actively getting people planning to tune in and I think FFT is pretty close to that crowd. It's got Final Fantasy in the title, the game itself is pretty popular (less so than the mainline games but more so than lesser spinoffs like CC) and as a huge bonus, it's never been run at AGDQ before. Even veteran viewers and repeat donators can get hyped for this run, not just new faces! That said, this was clearly not a big concern for FFT...

Cutscenes? They aren't any more boring than 3D Zelda's constant running across Hyrule/Termina/whatever Field (or god forbid Wind "Sailing Simulator" Waker). Very few games are literally 100% action, i.e. almost all have some slow periods or downtime, and FFT is actually fairly well paced: there's a little bit between most story battles and a little more between each of the four chapters. There's maybe two cutscenes that even surpass two minutes of time. They're actually less boring since it gives Claude time to generalize the plot to refresh the minds of people who haven't played FFT in 10+ years and help people follow along who have never played at all, which is important because this is a game where the story matters (and is complicated!) and it helps viewers put the action into context, and explain what he's doing outside of mid-battle where it takes a backseat to concentrating on execution.

The gameplay of No Math is highly varied, much more exciting to watch than Any% (i.e. Math%, which was part of the problem with past FFT submissions). Even if you can't appreciate the subtleties of Claude adjusting strategies on the fly because a random enemy with weird compat/equips/abilities made things slightly annoying, any casual viewer can appreciate the diversity of moving pictures on their screen. I mean yeah to some extent "what's going on is generally the same" but not really: you've got multiple summons (easily distinguished from each other unlike Draw Out), multiple sword skills, the occasional Black Magic, and even some straight-up physical attacking. And it's done in a way that makes a hard game look easy, but not [i]boringly[/i] easy like instantly killing every enemy on the battlefield before they get a turn (i.e. Math Skill). For a five-hour RPG run, it's pretty captivating.

And honestly, I don't even know why potential donation incentives are a worry. If the game and runner are otherwise worthy of inclusion, which at this point FFT/Claude are about as worthy as it can get, [i]you can come up with donation incentives later[/i]. The first and most important step to getting donations is to make sure people are tuning in at all, which a good run with good commentary will ensure, because that's more potential wallets for money to fly out of. While few people will donate purely out of the goodness of their hearts, many people are happy to donate just to hear their message read aloud on stream in front of tens of thousands of people. Then you've got five months to figure out other donation incentives and let's face it, like the previous most anything works since people realize it's for a good cause. First off, naming the generic units is pretty huge as many others have already noted here. But all those little crap options like buying the flower, choosing a birthday within the necessary one-month window, etc. will still have some pull. Blindfolded final boss? Sure, if Claude is offering it. Make him do Bethla South Wall instead of North Wall! You can always do some item giveaways if you feel the need to pad but it's not like there's a major shortage of options.

...I did a pretty bad job of being brief.

CardsOfTheHeart

2014-08-22 05:46:45 am

may use a few too many Kappas

I am concerned. bbforky has the second best PB on record in Pokemon Puzzle League S-Hard and he was shot down. He's also one of the more consistent runners of the game.

I am trying to save up funds to offer S-Hard for SGDQ 2015 and wondering if Pokemon Puzzle League would have any chance if I offered it. I understand that me having the WR would give me more consideration, but when a former WR holder gets rejected for the game, my mind starts to wonder about the chances the game has at GDQs in general.

TheMG2

2014-08-22 06:07:38 am

It could be that they're giving tetris attack, etc. a break.

RamblingJosh

2014-08-22 06:16:02 am

Many words! Handle it!

I don't really understand why the content of run pitches is such a debate. Their purpose is to give the runner a chance to inform the selection committee why they should choose said game. It's not for publicity, it's not to convince the community or the marathon viewers, it's "this is my game, this is why it's worth your time". MMX/Caleb are very well known entities, you know what you're getting without needing a pitch. It's up to the runner to decide if they are providing enough information or not. Decisions are made based on what information is available, and some games/runners are always going to be more well known than others.

That's not favoritism, that's just the way things are. Nobody can be intimately familiar with every runner and every game. That's why the pitch exists. Nobody can purge all memory of speedgames twice a year either. As the submission process currently exists, I don't see why that should mean runners are somehow obligated to compose a perfectly crafted pitch.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2014-08-22 07:08:33 am

2014-08-22 06:21:10 am

Worthless categories WR master

Exactly. Caleb felt that past experience and his own reputation spoke for itself. Why add unnecessary words? If anything, the pitch is probably less than 5% of what determines a submission. The game itself, the length, the video, past experiences, they all do the talking much more than 400 characters.

That being said, it is not a good idea to botch the pitch, obviously.