AGDQ 2015 Game Submissions - Due date is September 3rd 11:59 EDT [locked]

2014-08-20 11:28:53 pm

I agree Josh, of course it's important to the marathon to bring in the most viewers and donations. And certain games will do that much more than other games. Some games need a break while others may not.

I just feel like it's getting more lopsided as more and more marathons occur. Certainly FFT shouldn't get in nearly as much as SM64 or ALTTP, but FFT has enough of a fanbase to support one run in these years IMO. This year's submission seems like the best for the reasons that I outlined.

Omnigamer

2014-08-20 11:30:43 pm

All the things

Legitimate question: are there any moments of tension throughout the FFT run? I am not familiar with the run at all, but I do remember all of the brokenness you could unleash from playing when I was much younger. Is there anything over the course of the run that inspires some Serious Time™ moments or times where the outcome is uncertain beyond basic RNG? Again, honest question.

IMO any longer games should have ways to keep viewers in suspense. Not knowing what's going to happen next is a great way to maintain investment in the run/event. Randomness is one thing, but people also want to feel like the runner has overcome some great challenge regardless of the safety measures put in place by the runner.

Garrison

2014-08-20 11:33:24 pm

chapter 4 has a do or die moment where you have to bank teleports and enemies moving a specific way. You can manipulate some movement depending on how you move your units, but then you still have to hit like two 80% chance teleports to succeed iirc. Don't quote me on specifics, but there are definitely certain battles that are more complex than just using draw skills for sure

weirdchess1

2014-08-20 11:52:23 pm

There's some uncertainty with things like teleport movement or Demi 2 hitting vs missing. For a while Death as a spell was used in one battle (the waterfall battle with Ovelia and Delita) which misses often and causes problems. But with more and more practice & rerouting, the route has gotten safer. The right zodiacs on generics ensures that Quick spell works 100% of the time so for better or worse, Claude has routed it until only 2 or 3 battles in the run are really dangerous.

This is the type of run where the runner just obliterates the game, but I still think that has lots of appeal. Think Siglemic in SM64 or Witwix playing Boshy, even though there's no suspense or question if he'll succeed, it's still amazing to watch because extremely hard spots are handled with ease. A casual viewer can watch e.g. the Execution Site battle, where the player is outnumbered about 2 to 1 with enemy units in advantageous positions, but Claude still crushes it.

chessjerk

2014-08-21 12:00:50 am

The first moment of tension is on the very first turn of the whole game. If Gafgarion targets the left archer on his first turn, it is much faster than if he targets the right archer. He will always target the left archer unless he has better zodiac compatibility with the right archer. Targeting the right archer causes an inferior enemy movement pattern and can cost some time.

Next, since Ramza's starting JP is random, finding out if he has low or high starting JP can be a moment of tension. If he draws low JP, it takes a lot longer to open up all the classes that are needed in the early going.

After that, there are many small things that can happen that can cost time (bad zodiac compat on random enemies, random enemies with unusual equipment or abilities, general randomness in the AI, etc), but nothing that can't be handled.

The battle Garrison mentioned is the Sluice in Chapter four. Ramza needs to teleport to two switches to win the battle, and the Knights guarding the switches only move off the switches if Ramza is the only unit alive. A second unit being required for the battle is not a problem, since that unit can be setup to die 100% of the time before the Knights' turns come up. Ramza's first teleport is an 80% chance. If that hits, he needs to Haste himself at about a 90% chance in order to get a second turn before most of the enemies do. If the first teleport fails, he can Quick himself at about a 70% chance, go for the 80% teleport again, and Quick himself again to still survive and win the battle. The second teleport from the first switch to the second switch is 100%.

I don't think Claude's route includes any Demi 2's that are less than 100%, but I could be wrong about that.

The first moment of tension is on the very first turn of the whole game. If Gafgarion targets the left archer on his first turn, it is much faster than if he targets the right archer. He will always target the left archer unless he has better zodiac compatibility with the right archer. Targeting the right archer causes an inferior enemy movement pattern and can cost some time.

Next, since Ramza's starting JP is random, finding out if he has low or high starting JP can be a moment of tension. If he draws low JP, it takes a lot longer to open up all the classes that are needed in the early going.

After that, there are many small things that can happen that can cost time (bad zodiac compat on random enemies, random enemies with unusual equipment or abilities, general randomness in the AI, etc), but nothing that can't be handled.

The battle Garrison mentioned is the Sluice in Chapter four. Ramza needs to teleport to two switches to win the battle, and the Knights guarding the switches only move off the switches if Ramza is the only unit alive. A second unit being required for the battle is not a problem, since that unit can be setup to die 100% of the time before the Knights' turns come up. Ramza's first teleport is an 80% chance. If that hits, he needs to Haste himself at about a 90% chance in order to get a second turn before most of the enemies do. If the first teleport fails, he can Quick himself at about a 70% chance, go for the 80% teleport again, and Quick himself again to still survive and win the battle. The second teleport from the first switch to the second switch is 100%.

I don't think Claude's route includes any Demi 2's that are less than 100%, but I could be wrong about that.

Melodia

Edit history:

Melodia: 2014-08-21 12:24:18 am

2014-08-21 12:21:20 am

FWIW, the Slieuce battle has *one* 80% teleport and, then a not-100% quick on top of that (forgot the percentage). That's the absolute highest chance of any failure in this run and even then it's possible to salvage (Claude did his last run). Almost every other battle, if there's any possibility of failure at all, it's like 1% or less. I think in fact the only other battle that could really be lost more often than 1/100 times because of true random change (correct me if I'm wrong) is the first battle with Rafa, because she can occasionally die before anyone in the party gets a turn.

And the death spell is for any% runs, not no-math. That battle's only issue is Ovelia's equipment breaking, which is taken care of by a safety strat of moving Ramza in front of her, which takes a couple seconds.
All other bad RNG pretty much simply takes a bit of extra time.

For anyone who cares, anyway...

OtakuSRL

Edit history:

OtakuSRL: 2014-08-21 12:42:09 am

2014-08-21 12:41:57 am

< ^ > < ^ >

With games / runs that have another runner involved (such as Co-Op, two player, etc.), are runs put on hold / not touched until the other runner submits? Just curious, as it was touched on early in the thread regarding two people.

Deuceler

2014-08-21 02:54:00 am

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Never has there been such an out cry from the community towards a game for a single marathon. Yet, it falls to deaf ears. The only questions I want answered is what is it going to hurt to put FFT into the marathon? We've already got all the bases covered: nostalgic game, top rated runner, excellent commentary, community support. If you guys are that worried about money just make Saturday Cosmo vs Siglemic day and let them blind race for 12 hours.

In all honesty, I could give a shit if FFT gets into the marathon, I've never played the game and it's not my cup of tea. I really like Claude as a streamer and if anybody could pull it off it's him, and yes - that IS the argument. No kidding the community wants a knowledgeable personality during a game, if we didn't do that we would have Tomba 2 runs all week long. I could see if this entire thread was plastered with troll comments and hashtags about FFT, trying to be cool and make the staff look dumb - but it's the opposite. There is well written, thought out comments as to why the run is legit, what would make it popular amongst viewers, and why it should be included.

I understand that the GDQ's have become very large and raising money for the charity is a high priority, but at what point does the community who makes the event possible lose it's say? The schedule is in no way an easy task, but obviously we are on to something here. What do you have to lose by putting the game into the schedule? The only thing I can think of is a 6 hour Zelda game.

Never has there been such an out cry from the community towards a game for a single marathon. Yet, it falls to deaf ears. The only questions I want answered is what is it going to hurt to put FFT into the marathon? We've already got all the bases covered: nostalgic game, top rated runner, excellent commentary, community support. If you guys are that worried about money just make Saturday Cosmo vs Siglemic day and let them blind race for 12 hours.

In all honesty, I could give a shit if FFT gets into the marathon, I've never played the game and it's not my cup of tea.  I really like Claude as a streamer and if anybody could pull it off it's him, and yes - that IS the argument. No kidding the community wants a knowledgeable personality during a game, if we didn't do that we would have Tomba 2 runs all week long. I could see if this entire thread was plastered with troll comments and hashtags about FFT, trying to be cool and make the staff look dumb - but it's the opposite. There is well written, thought out comments as to why the run is legit, what would make it popular amongst viewers, and why it should be included.

I understand that the GDQ's have become very large and raising money for the charity is a high priority, but at what point does the community who makes the event possible lose it's say? The schedule is in no way an easy task, but obviously we are on to something here. What do you have to lose by putting the game into the schedule? The only thing I can think of is a 6 hour Zelda game.

ShadowWraith

2014-08-21 03:45:53 am

.

...or five one-hour games. The largest drawback to having long games in the marathon is how many other games they edge out for the time spent. If a long game turns out to be a complete flop, it's a much worse situation than if a short one turns out to be a flop. As much faith as you have in Claude to put on an entertaining run for the viewers, the organisers have to look at the entire picture. From your post, it sounds like the only thing the game has going for it is nostalgia. Not a bad thing for a marathon run, but nostalgia isn't going to make up for poor pacing or uninteresting gameplay.

As Lurk asked before, would you be rallying so hard behind FFT if it wasn't Claude running it?

jape

2014-08-21 04:03:51 am

Why does it matter that people are rallying behind it because it's Claude? He's an extremely entertaining runner, he's hands-down the best at the game and category, and knows how to make a long game exciting for the duration. Do people really think that there's this huge amount of support because he's a butt-buddy of The Speedrun Community? And not because it's a great run that deserves to be shown at an event like this? Stop singling out posts focusing on "nostalgia" and realize that there's been pages and pages of people from all walks of this goofball community vouching for it as a marathon-friendly, charity-friendly, money-friendly run.

Golden

2014-08-21 04:09:49 am

Voice

Quote:

As Lurk asked before, would you be rallying so hard behind FFT if it wasn't Claude running it?

The answer to your question is no, but not for the reason you are hoping for. Sometimes the runner adds to the enjoyment of a run with commentary. Town of ZZT made it into SGDQ on a runner's name alone, and Cosmo managed to make it entertaining despite being an otherwise intolerable marathon game. I'm speaking as a fan of the game. I have watched Claude before, but I don't religiously follow him. There is a community of fans for FFT, and strategy RPGs in general, that would appreciate this run. For me the appeal of a marathon run, especially an RPG, is the dissection of the game on a level that the viewer wasn't able to achieve on their own. I feel motivated to support this run's inclusion in AGDQ because Claude has demonstrated a devotion to the game that would be impressive to those who both have played it and are seeing it for the first time. Also perhaps worth noting: it's also a bit of a rare site to see so many people in the community actually wanting a Final Fantasy in a marathon. A welcome change, I would think.

Nostalgia makes up for the poor pacing and uninteresting gameplay of most numbered Final Fantasy games too, by the way, and those are deemed good enough to be marathon finishers. Wink

[quote]As Lurk asked before, would you be rallying so hard behind FFT if it wasn't Claude running it?[/quote]

The answer to your question is no, but not for the reason you are hoping for. Sometimes the runner adds to the enjoyment of a run with commentary. Town of ZZT made it into SGDQ on a runner's name alone, and Cosmo managed to make it entertaining despite being an otherwise intolerable marathon game. I'm speaking as a fan of the game. I have watched Claude before, but I don't religiously follow him. There is a community of fans for FFT, and strategy RPGs in general, that would appreciate this run. For me the appeal of a marathon run, especially an RPG, is the dissection of the game on a level that the viewer wasn't able to achieve on their own. I feel motivated to support this run's inclusion in AGDQ because Claude has demonstrated a devotion to the game that would be impressive to those who both have played it and are seeing it for the first time. Also perhaps worth noting: it's also a bit of a rare site to see so many people in the community actually wanting a Final Fantasy in a marathon. A welcome change, I would think.

Nostalgia makes up for the poor pacing and uninteresting gameplay of most numbered Final Fantasy games too, by the way, and those are deemed good enough to be marathon finishers. ;)

Uznare

2014-08-21 04:30:35 am

Hi I've never watched Claude before. And tbh I didn't understand why people wanted his game in the marathon until I watched his archived run.

It's astounding how the game got rejected considering the runner for it basically covers every single base that people like about certain runners like say Cosmowright (really sorry for this example). Extremely charismatic, great commentary and vast knowledge of the game (he's the best at it from what I've seen), he's making a god dang 5 hour run supremely entertaining how is this not seen as an amazing strength especially in a marathon setting.

It's really silly to make the argument that no one would care if it wasn't Claude running it because that is massively true of a ton of games at past GDQs.

The game as mentioned innumerable times before has lots of nostalgia going for it, it's widely considered one of the best games Square ever made, has good potential for donation incentives (somehow this seems to be a big point of contention).

So why is the game not an obvious choice for an instant lock?

Hi I've never watched Claude before. And tbh I didn't understand why people wanted his game in the marathon until I watched his archived run.

It's astounding how the game got rejected considering the runner for it basically covers every single base that people like about certain runners like say Cosmowright (really sorry for this example). Extremely charismatic, great commentary and vast knowledge of the game (he's the best at it from what I've seen), he's making a god dang 5 hour run supremely entertaining how is this not seen as an amazing strength especially in a marathon setting.

It's really silly to make the argument that no one would care if it wasn't Claude running it because that is massively true of a ton of games at past GDQs.

The game as mentioned innumerable times before has lots of nostalgia going for it, it's widely considered one of the best games Square ever made, has good potential for donation incentives (somehow this seems to be a big point of contention).

So why is the game not an obvious choice for an instant lock?

bangerra

2014-08-21 04:32:40 am

Not to personally attack anyone, but I am getting really annoyed by this thread. I am hoping to have a great time at AGDQ to make my long trip from Europe worth it, but the bitching some people are doing here is somewhat killing the hype for me atm.
I know this will most likely be considered flamebait, but I am one of the people in charge of scheduling for ESA and I would like to ask everyone to put just a little trust in the people trying to organise this event.
Making a schedule for an event this big is a rather stressful experience, and having an entire pack of people criticizing you like what is happening right now doesn't exactly help that fact.
I'm sure your voice has been heard by now, and has even been thoroughly repied to, adding another 50 posts about the exact same subject with the exact same arguments isn't gonna help take this 'discussion' any further.
I would like to hear the thoughts of other people and other games that got accepted/rejected/ w/e and not have them drown in a sea of monotonous reposts.

Not to personally attack anyone, but I am getting really annoyed by this thread. I am hoping to have a great time at AGDQ to make my long trip from Europe worth it, but the bitching some people are doing here is somewhat killing the hype for me atm. 
I know this will most likely be considered flamebait, but I am one of the people in charge of scheduling for ESA and I would like to ask everyone to put just a little trust in the people trying to organise this event. 
Making a schedule for an event this big is a rather stressful experience, and having an entire pack of people criticizing you like what is happening right now doesn't exactly help that fact. 
I'm sure your voice has been heard by now, and has even been thoroughly repied to, adding another 50 posts about the exact same subject with the exact same arguments isn't gonna help take this 'discussion' any further.
I would like to hear the thoughts of other people and other games that got accepted/rejected/ w/e and not have them drown in a sea of monotonous reposts.

Reiska

2014-08-21 04:34:28 am

It's a valid question; and quite frankly, no, because I don't think runners who aren't Claude would have the strength of commentary needed to elevate the run to being worthy of being shown. I also don't think this is a valid point, considering that you guys have openly stated before that to a certain extent, the runner's identity *is* a significant factor in some game accept/reject decisions because of community influence - for instance, it was stated fairly openly back around AGDQ 2013 that you pretty much wouldn't accept any Mario 64 120-star run from anyone but Siglemic at the time he was still dominant in that category because the viewer response would have been so overwhelmingly negative to seeing someone other than him running it.

I want to springboard from this to a larger point, though: the necessity for masterful commentary when considering a long run really should not be unique to FFT. It's a question that ought to be asked for pretty much ANY long (>1h) game, in my opinion - multiple hours of ANY single game can be hard to watch without interesting commentary. So while Lurk is very correct in pointing out that I, and probably everyone here but I can't speak for them, wouldn't rally so hard behind FFT if it were someone other than Claude running it, that's not a thing that's actually unique to FFT - it's a problem with all long game runs, and especially all RPG runs (and I say this as someone for whom RPG runs are one of the primary draws). I don't think people are objecting so much to the fact that Mike rejected FFT as they are objecting to the fact that he rejected it for stated reasons which objectively should be applied to a number of other games which have not been rejected at this marathon, or which were accepted at previous marathons. Examples I'm familiar with, with no offense intended to any of the runners who submitted these games - I don't mean to imply these runs are unworthy of being in GDQ, quite the opposite:

FF4. About an hour shorter than FFT. Nostalgia fanbase isn't notably larger than FFT's in practice, FF4 has certainly not aged as well. Hasn't been at a GDQ in this category for 4 years. Last I knew, still had a tedious, repetitive grind segment in the latter parts of the game with the raise-loop on the mech dragons, but outside of that it's a pretty good run (has this changed?). Late game isn't very interesting since half the party is too low level to contribute unless that previous point's changed, the highlights of this game are in the middle IMO. Quantity of donation incentives plus potential for rolling naming incentives is a strong point in favor, however.

FF6 nosketch%. Not on this year's schedule, but it's a repeat game so I feel obligated to mention it. Has lots of unskippable cutscenes (more than FF4), some of which get very long and only one of which is redeemable with a donation incentive (opera singing). Almost every battle in the second half of the game is won (in the non-glitchless route) by Vanish-Doom glitch or Joker Doom abuse, including the final boss, and the only suspense is whether the runner remembers to cast Float before the first phase of the final boss dies or not. The donation incentive quantity is higher than FFT's, but several of the FF6 characters consistently pull in essentially no donations for their naming incentives because they only get ~5 minutes of screen time throughout the run. Glitchless or sketch% (now that it exists) are both much better watches, IMO, for variety.

FF9. Loses much more time than FFT does to random battles, and is notably longer as well (long enough to be split into two parts, as I recall). Has less donation incentives than FF6 but marginally more than FFT. From what I recall, though, the actual execution is largely unrepetitive and interesting, which is nice for an RPG speedrun, especially one of this length.

Kingdom Hearts. I really want to emphasize no offense to Spike here: he's an awesome runner, and he's damn good at these games. However, I feel obligated to point out that the last time you guys scheduled a Kingdom Hearts game in a marathon, specifically KH2, the viewer response from both the quakenet chat and the twitch chat was UNIVERSALLY negative and the viewer count plummeted; however, a large part of that was due to the fact that the game was being played on Beginner difficulty. Playing on the hardest difficulty should improve the entertainment level somewhat, although I'm not convinced the reaction will be positive still.

Ocarina of Time. Yes, I'm bringing up the sacred cow. Five hours of a single Zelda game is hard to watch, even one as famously vaunted in the community as OoT is; every long OoT run I've ever watched gets incredibly repetitive after a point. Good commentary, of course, can offset this; however, I also have to point out that OoT has significantly fewer donation incentives than FFT does while being the same length, and there is a good chance you'll have to deal with stupid Twitch chat backlash about the game being run by someone other than Cosmo.

There are other long games on the list, but I haven't commented on them because I'm not familiar enough with their runs to comfortably comment on them.

tl;dr: given some of the other games that have been accepted, the stated reasons for FFT's rejection do not feel objectively fair, and multiple posters have alluded to the fact that the same criticisms can be applied to many other games which have been run at AGDQ, including some that are considered marathon staples. I think that is why you see so much community uproar over this, moreso than just Claude having a supportive fanbase; if it were just blind fanbase support, I don't think it'd be this strong, since Claude still has another game that was accepted.

It's a valid question; and quite frankly, no, because I don't think runners who aren't Claude would have the strength of commentary needed to elevate the run to being worthy of being shown.  I also don't think this is a valid point, considering that you guys have openly stated before that to a certain extent, the runner's identity *is* a significant factor in some game accept/reject decisions because of community influence - for instance, it was stated fairly openly back around AGDQ 2013 that you pretty much wouldn't accept any Mario 64 120-star run from anyone but Siglemic at the time he was still dominant in that category because the viewer response would have been so overwhelmingly negative to seeing someone other than him running it.

I want to springboard from this to a larger point, though: the necessity for masterful commentary when considering a long run really should not be unique to FFT.  It's a question that ought to be asked for pretty much ANY long (>1h) game, in my opinion - multiple hours of ANY single game can be hard to watch without interesting commentary.  So while Lurk is very correct in pointing out that I, and probably everyone here but I can't speak for them, wouldn't rally so hard behind FFT if it were someone other than Claude running it, that's not a thing that's actually unique to FFT - it's a problem with all long game runs, and especially all RPG runs (and I say this as someone for whom RPG runs are one of the primary draws).  I don't think people are objecting so much to the fact that Mike rejected FFT as they are objecting to the fact that he rejected it for stated reasons which objectively should be applied to a number of other games which have not been rejected at this marathon, or which were accepted at previous marathons.  Examples I'm familiar with, with no offense intended to any of the runners who submitted these games - I don't mean to imply these runs are unworthy of being in GDQ, quite the opposite:

FF4.  About an hour shorter than FFT.  Nostalgia fanbase isn't notably larger than FFT's in practice, FF4 has certainly not aged as well.  Hasn't been at a GDQ in this category for 4 years.  Last I knew, still had a tedious, repetitive grind segment in the latter parts of the game with the raise-loop on the mech dragons, but outside of that it's a pretty good run (has this changed?).  Late game isn't very interesting since half the party is too low level to contribute unless that previous point's changed, the highlights of this game are in the middle IMO.  Quantity of donation incentives plus potential for rolling naming incentives is a strong point in favor, however.

FF6 nosketch%.  Not on this year's schedule, but it's a repeat game so I feel obligated to mention it.  Has lots of unskippable cutscenes (more than FF4), some of which get very long and only one of which is redeemable with a donation incentive (opera singing).  Almost every battle in the second half of the game is won (in the non-glitchless route) by Vanish-Doom glitch or Joker Doom abuse, including the final boss, and the only suspense is whether the runner remembers to cast Float before the first phase of the final boss dies or not.  The donation incentive quantity is higher than FFT's, but several of the FF6 characters consistently pull in essentially no donations for their naming incentives because they only get ~5 minutes of screen time throughout the run.  Glitchless or sketch% (now that it exists) are both much better watches, IMO, for variety.

FF9.  Loses much more time than FFT does to random battles, and is notably longer as well (long enough to be split into two parts, as I recall).  Has less donation incentives than FF6 but marginally more than FFT.  From what I recall, though, the actual execution is largely unrepetitive and interesting, which is nice for an RPG speedrun, especially one of this length.

Kingdom Hearts.  I really want to emphasize no offense to Spike here: he's an awesome runner, and he's damn good at these games.  However, I feel obligated to point out that the last time you guys scheduled a Kingdom Hearts game in a marathon, specifically KH2, the viewer response from both the quakenet chat and the twitch chat was UNIVERSALLY negative and the viewer count plummeted; however, a large part of that was due to the fact that the game was being played on Beginner difficulty.  Playing on the hardest difficulty should improve the entertainment level somewhat, although I'm not convinced the reaction will be positive still.

Ocarina of Time.  Yes, I'm bringing up the sacred cow.  Five hours of a single Zelda game is hard to watch, even one as famously vaunted in the community as OoT is; every long OoT run I've ever watched gets incredibly repetitive after a point.  Good commentary, of course, can offset this; however, I also have to point out that OoT has significantly fewer donation incentives than FFT does while being the same length, and there is a good chance you'll have to deal with stupid Twitch chat backlash about the game being run by someone other than Cosmo.

There are other long games on the list, but I haven't commented on them because I'm not familiar enough with their runs to comfortably comment on them.

tl;dr: given some of the other games that have been accepted, the stated reasons for FFT's rejection do not feel objectively fair, and multiple posters have alluded to the fact that the same criticisms can be applied to many other games which have been run at AGDQ, including some that are considered marathon staples.  I think [b]that[/b] is why you see so much community uproar over this, moreso than just Claude having a supportive fanbase; if it were just blind fanbase support, I don't think it'd be this strong, since Claude still has another game that was accepted.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2014-08-21 04:46:26 am

Bismuth: 2014-08-21 04:44:48 am

2014-08-21 04:43:50 am

Worthless categories WR master

Can I suggest making a separate thread just for arguing about Final Fantasy Tactics? Seriously, this is getting absolutely ridiculous. I'm not for or against the game being in the marathon, but I'm honestly really tired of seeing only posts about FFT in this topic. This has been going on for a solid 12 pages. Can this endless debate be moved elsewhere? I know it is related to the topic but the topic is much wider than "discuss FFT being rejected" and I feel like it completely overshadows legitimate questions other people have. Again I'm not for or against the game being cut, but I think everyone who doesn't feel involved with FFT is pretty damn tired of seeing arguments about it EVERYWHERE. Just put it in a topic that I will never read and I (and many others) will be very happy. Thanks.

Onin

Edit history:

Onin: 2014-08-21 04:57:06 am

2014-08-21 04:47:34 am

Friendly reminder that there's no way Halo 2 would've gotten into AGDQ'14 if it wasn't Monopoli running it.

ShadowWraith

2014-08-21 04:55:35 am

.

Golden: Town of ZZT was also 5 minutes long. There was no real risk in putting it on the schedule. If it was 5 hours long, you can bet that it would have been rejected. This isn't a fair comparison either though, as FFT is a stronger game than ZZT was. :p

Also, most numbered Final Fantasy games make great finishers because they also bring in a lot of money through donation incentives. I don't think it's fair to compare them to FFT in this case because FFT can't really compare to that. They also come at a part of the marathon where everyone is tired out and winding down, and the high energy commentary situation runs contrary to that. If it were to make it on to the schedule, FFT would not be a marathon finisher game. It just doesn't make sense as one. This isn't a strike against FFT, and as I've said before I'm ambivalent about whether it makes it on the schedule.

I can't really comment on the rest of your post, so I'll take it as it is and accept your point of view on it.

Reiska: Nice post. Masterful commentary is not necessarily required. All that's required is to keep the viewers engaged and entertained. If you can manage that through upbeat jokes like MisterMV and Striker do for their runs, that's just as valid as being very informative about your run. Also note that the schedule creation process has changed significantly over the past few years.

FF4's route has changed slightly. The grinding segment was cut in half as the final battle strategy has changed. This has the side-effect of making it incredibly tense. Lots of donation incentives, and as you said, this category hasn't been featured since AGDQ'11. I personally think this is a stronger game than FFT, but I'm biased as I like the game and haven't watched Claude's stuff.

FF9 has also only been featured once, and personally I can't see it making a repeat attendance anytime soon. Just too much time expenditure for not enough benefit.

Onin: Friendly reminder that previous Halo runs were ass-tier and garnered a very poor community response and Mike was wary about having any Halo games featured for that reason. also it was agdq2014

Golden: Town of ZZT was also 5 minutes long. There was no real risk in putting it on the schedule. If it was 5 hours long, you can bet that it would have been rejected. This isn't a fair comparison either though, as FFT is a stronger game than ZZT was. :p

Also, most numbered Final Fantasy games make great finishers because they also bring in a lot of money through donation incentives. I don't think it's fair to compare them to FFT in this case because FFT can't really compare to that. They also come at a part of the marathon where everyone is tired out and winding down, and the high energy commentary situation runs contrary to that. If it were to make it on to the schedule, FFT would not be a marathon finisher game. It just doesn't make sense as one. This isn't a strike against FFT, and as I've said before I'm ambivalent about whether it makes it on the schedule.

I can't really comment on the rest of your post, so I'll take it as it is and accept your point of view on it.

Reiska: Nice post. Masterful commentary is not necessarily required. All that's required is to keep the viewers engaged and entertained. If you can manage that through upbeat jokes like MisterMV and Striker do for their runs, that's just as valid as being very informative about your run. Also note that the schedule creation process has changed significantly over the past few years.

FF4's route has changed slightly. The grinding segment was cut in half as the final battle strategy has changed. This has the side-effect of making it incredibly tense. Lots of donation incentives, and as you said, this category hasn't been featured since AGDQ'11. I personally think this is a stronger game than FFT, but I'm biased as I like the game and haven't watched Claude's stuff.

FF9 has also only been featured once, and personally I can't see it making a repeat attendance anytime soon. Just too much time expenditure for not enough benefit.

Onin: Friendly reminder that previous Halo runs were ass-tier and garnered a very poor community response and Mike was wary about having any Halo games featured for that reason. [size=4]also it was agdq2014[/size]

Reiska

2014-08-21 05:04:35 am

Quote from ShadowWraith:

Also, most numbered Final Fantasy games make great finishers because they also bring in a lot of money through donation incentives. I don't think it's fair to compare them to FFT in this case because FFT can't really compare to that. They also come at a part of the marathon where everyone is tired out and winding down, and the high energy commentary situation runs contrary to that. If it were to make it on to the schedule, FFT would not be a marathon finisher game. It just doesn't make sense as one. This isn't a strike against FFT, and as I've said before I'm ambivalent about whether it makes it on the schedule.

I definitely agree it's not finisher material. Honestly I think Super Metroid should be the finisher, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote from ShadowWraith:

All that's required is to keep the viewers engaged and entertained. If you can manage that through upbeat jokes like MisterMV and Striker do for their runs, that's just as valid as being very informative about your run.

Agreed, though I'd consider that masterful commentary as well, just of a different sort.

Quote from ShadowWraith:

FF4's route has changed slightly. The grinding segment was cut in half as the final battle strategy has changed. This has the side-effect of making it incredibly tense. Lots of donation incentives, and as you said, this category hasn't been featured since AGDQ'11. I personally think this is a stronger game than FFT, but I'm biased as I like the game and haven't watched Claude's stuff.

Definitely looking forward to that then, it'll be nice to see. (If I came off like I was saying I felt FF4 was a weak marathon game, that wasn't intended at all, IMO it's the strongest of the ones I mentioned given large quantity of donation incentives, rolling incentives, and nostalgia. Pity no-skips isn't interesting, I'd actually prefer seeing it, but I don't think anyone runs that category seriously that I'm aware. Maybe someone will route the PSP version with its autobattle sometime, that would be neat.

[quote="ShadowWraith"]
Also, most numbered Final Fantasy games make great finishers because they also bring in a lot of money through donation incentives. I don't think it's fair to compare them to FFT in this case because FFT can't really compare to that. They also come at a part of the marathon where everyone is tired out and winding down, and the high energy commentary situation runs contrary to that. If it were to make it on to the schedule, FFT would not be a marathon finisher game. It just doesn't make sense as one. This isn't a strike against FFT, and as I've said before I'm ambivalent about whether it makes it on the schedule.[/quote]

I definitely agree it's not finisher material.  Honestly I think Super Metroid should be the finisher, but that's neither here nor there.

[quote="ShadowWraith"]All that's required is to keep the viewers engaged and entertained. If you can manage that through upbeat jokes like MisterMV and Striker do for their runs, that's just as valid as being very informative about your run.[/quote]Agreed, though I'd consider that masterful commentary as well, just of a different sort.

[quote="ShadowWraith"]FF4's route has changed slightly. The grinding segment was cut in half as the final battle strategy has changed. This has the side-effect of making it incredibly tense. Lots of donation incentives, and as you said, this category hasn't been featured since AGDQ'11. I personally think this is a stronger game than FFT, but I'm biased as I like the game and haven't watched Claude's stuff.[/quote]

Definitely looking forward to that then, it'll be nice to see.  (If I came off like I was saying I felt FF4 was a weak marathon game, that wasn't intended at all, IMO it's the strongest of the ones I mentioned given large quantity of donation incentives, rolling incentives, and nostalgia.  Pity no-skips isn't interesting, I'd actually prefer seeing it, but I don't think anyone runs that category seriously that I'm aware.  Maybe someone will route the PSP version with its autobattle sometime, that would be neat.

Zwataketa

2014-08-21 05:11:11 am

Sonic's biggest fan at heart

Quote from chessjerk:

Math Skill is a horribly overpowered skillset that can kill an entire map of enemies at once. It lets you cast most White, Black, Time, and Yin Yang spells instantly with no MP cost based on certain parameters. You can use CT, Experience, Level, and Height along with the numbers 5, 4, 3, and Prime Numbers. There are ways to manipulate parameters to make them targetable through certain combinations.

No Math Skill runs do not use Math Skill. Claude's path uses Draw Out (another overpowered skill set with the right setup).

Or are you asking what "math" is? Smiley

No, I was asking what math is in the game. Though I'm sure algebra teachers the world over are crying tears of joy.

Emptyeye

2014-08-21 05:34:27 am

Talk to the Hand

I actually do have a question about pitches in general.

You mentioned that "I've worked hard on this game" is a no-no. Are noting tangible results of that hard work (IE "My no-reset runs are consistently faster than the BEST run of anyone else in the community") okay, or should I stay away from that as well?

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2014-08-21 05:38:35 am

2014-08-21 05:37:58 am

.

You're trying to sell your game to the casual viewer, not someone familiar with it. It doesn't matter if your run is the fastest if the game is uninteresting. What about your game would be appealing to the general audience? It needs to justify the timeslot.

Bismuth

Edit history:

Bismuth: 2014-08-21 05:39:33 am

Bismuth: 2014-08-21 05:38:37 am

2014-08-21 05:38:00 am

Worthless categories WR master

Disregard my post as ^ SW replied here

ShadowWraith

Edit history:

ShadowWraith: 2014-08-21 05:40:01 am

2014-08-21 05:39:37 am

.

WELP THIS POST IS NOW POINTLESS

Amyrlinn

2014-08-21 05:43:09 am

What kinds of PB videos are good to put in pitches? I know the PB I put for my BG&E run wasn't necessarily the best commentary I can do on the game, but it was my fastest time by a good amount.

FFgamer86

2014-08-21 05:47:27 am

SDA Speedruns: 1

You want a video that will show off what the game has to offer, if you stream often, its easy for them to determine how your commentary is by watching a few vods.