26:30 HL team run, nearly ready to start running, need help timing small sections [locked]

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2010-09-04 11:45:12 pm

Spider-Waffle: 2010-08-24 10:38:21 pm

mikwuyma: 2010-08-24 03:38:24 pm

mikwuyma: 2010-08-24 01:30:30 pm

Spider-Waffle: 2010-08-24 02:12:08 am

Spider-Waffle: 2010-08-21 12:28:21 am

Spider-Waffle: 2010-07-17 11:43:09 pm

2010-07-11 05:03:48 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

So I've scrutinized my old run, thought of all the ways to change the route, use infinite health door, use jump/edge bug, pre-charging gauss and grenades with different version, using new tricks, doing old tricks better, ect. I've come up with a list of 83 possible improvements, adding up to 116.3 seconds. This also doesn't include an additional 40+ cells that are now available for more boosting do to do using explosion boosts instead of gauss boosts made possible by infinite health door. Then I estimate 35 seconds could be saved by using loop script and right fps to get perfect bhop on flat ground plus general shaving of time. This comes out to 27:00 not counting save penalty. Will probably need an extra 15 segments do to harder tricks.

I would like to assemble a team of runners/helpers to do this speedrun. There's a number of hard tricks and different things that I'm not sure are possible or need to know lowest amount of health loss possible to successfully to do trick, ect. that need to be tested first. So anyone could help with that. I can list the things that need to be tested. The exact route is still in the planning stage do to this, so once this information becomes known the exact route can be planned, and running can commence.

Anyone that helps out will be listed in the credits, so w/e you can do to help is appreciated.

-=ATTENTION=--

Want to see the run, then PM mike at http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/profile/mikwuyma.html and tell him

Thread title:

So I've scrutinized my old run, thought of all the ways to change the route, use infinite health door, use jump/edge bug, pre-charging gauss and grenades with different version, using new tricks, doing old tricks better, ect.  I've come up with a list of 83 possible improvements, adding up to 116.3 seconds.  This also doesn't include an additional 40+ cells that are now available for more boosting do to do using explosion boosts instead of gauss boosts made possible by infinite health door.  Then I estimate 35 seconds could be saved by using loop script and right fps to get perfect bhop on flat ground plus general shaving of time.  This comes out to 27:00 not counting save penalty.  Will probably need an extra 15 segments do to harder tricks.

I would like to assemble a team of runners/helpers to do this speedrun.  There's a number of hard tricks and different things that I'm not sure are possible or need to know lowest amount of health loss possible to successfully to do trick, ect. that need to be tested first.  So anyone could help with that.  I can list the things that need to be tested.  The exact route is still in the planning stage do to this, so once this information becomes known the exact route can be planned, and running can commence.

Anyone that helps out will be listed in the credits, so w/e you can do to help is appreciated.

[b]-=ATTENTION=--[/b]

Want to see the run, then PM mike at http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/profile/mikwuyma.html and tell him

Eldar

2010-07-11 08:18:16 pm

Can't wait! Cheesy

It's been a while since I've played Half-Life, but I use to be OK, nothing special though. I'd be glad to lend a helping hand, with my limited capabilities.

rayvex

Edit history:

rayvex: 2010-07-11 09:03:41 pm

2010-07-11 08:50:05 pm

hi

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

right fps to get perfect bhop on flat ground

You should consider setting fps_max and fps_modem to 250 (developer 1 needed). This is the fastest possible bhop you can ever get in HL. Try it out theres a HUGE difference compared to 100 fps so this would save a lot of time already.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2010-07-11 10:06:01 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Don't you need steam for that? I wonder if hlsp could add dev 1.

rayvex

2010-07-12 04:09:50 am

hi

Dunno, I haven't tried it in WON.
Works on HLSP Bunny in steam though.

quadrazid

Edit history:

quadrazid: 2010-07-12 05:16:52 am

2010-07-12 04:26:12 am

Svart Lyser Tronen

This seems very interesting indeed :>

Just tried to go above 100fps in WON, no success.
But many things is screwed up with more fps anyway. With 250fps NPC's turn very slowly. Barney when he turns to face a scanner or Gonarch when she turns at her waypoints for example. Might be more disadvantage as well. Could aslo make binds to change fps while running tho.

EDIT: If we could get rid of the freeze after loadings, steam would be a better way to go imo.

Also with special loop bhop script, there is a slowdown at each jump with 100fps, however I found out that with lower fps it is'nt. With some testing I find a limit between 83 and 84 fps. 83fps - no slowdown. but above 100, like 250 - no slowdown either.

E: lol, no slowdown at 20fps either, but it is at 30, Im not sure how this works.

E: seems like NPC's turns faster the lower fps you have, max_fps 10 and the make instant 180 degree turns.
This can be used at all places when you have to wait for NPC's to walk somewhere. Or push scientists at doors and similar.

E: So when you bunnyhop through enemygrunts set high fps and they turn slow as fuck, lol gg.

This seems very interesting indeed :>

Just tried to go above 100fps in WON, no success.
But many things is screwed up with more fps anyway. With 250fps NPC's turn very slowly. Barney when he turns to face a scanner or Gonarch when she turns at her waypoints for example. Might be more disadvantage as well. Could aslo make binds to change fps while running tho.

EDIT: If we could get rid of the freeze after loadings, steam would be a better way to go imo.

Also with special loop bhop script, there is a slowdown at each jump with 100fps, however I found out that with lower fps it is'nt. With some testing I find a limit between 83 and 84 fps. 83fps - no slowdown. but above 100, like 250 - no slowdown either.

E: lol, no slowdown at 20fps either, but it is at 30, Im not sure how this works.

E: seems like NPC's turns faster the lower fps you have, max_fps 10 and the make instant 180 degree turns.
This can be used at all places when you have to wait for NPC's to walk somewhere. Or push scientists at doors and similar.

E: So when you bunnyhop through enemygrunts set high fps and they turn slow as fuck, lol gg.

Tigger77

2010-07-12 05:40:51 am

I survived MIKE-Fest 1

just a question is changing fps during run allowed?
I remember a game (unit 22 i think) with was rejected because of this.

quadrazid

2010-07-12 05:49:08 am

Svart Lyser Tronen

I'm not sure. Some Quake runs is using it tho.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2010-07-12 06:04:28 am

2010-07-12 05:54:25 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

steam without freezes would be great, but that is looking next to impossible, maybe with a hack (not mod). WON with dev 1 would be just as good I think.

Quote:

just a question is changing fps during run allowed?

Pretty sure it's not really cared about, I don't think there's any ruling on it, because it was never looked down on. I don't see why it should be illegal though, basically like changing your res or brightness in different segments, this just happens to have slight affects on the game, it can be done normally with simple binds, not even scripts. It's used in my opposing force and HL runs for consistent 180s with fps dropping below 100, and qdq with a vengeance, quake demos original most popular run uses it so it would ultimately be grand fathered in in the least.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2010-07-12 06:14:29 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

So something that needs to be tested is just how powerful the jump bug is. I think it can be very powerful. Need to know if it can allow you jump while keeping your speed, there's some tricks I had planed to use. Also, I have a theory that you never actually touch anything 4 less units from the ground you're jumping from, thus you might be able to jump on hurt entities without getting hurt. This could be used on the long electric railing over water to prevent from having to go into the water and possibly in the electric water part before that if the water is 4 or less units high.

ExplodingCabbage

2010-07-12 06:52:40 am

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

Quote:

just a question is changing fps during run allowed?

Pretty sure it's not really cared about, I don't think there's any ruling on it, because it was never looked down on.

The rejection Tigger77 was referring to was of Cold Fear. However that was a fairly different case to this one: as I understand it, the game speed is proportionate to framerate in Colf Fear so increasing the framerate basically means that the entire game runs faster. Clearly this isn't allowable, but clearly it's not the same as what's being talked about here, either.

However, I did bring up in that thread the more general issue of changing framerates in games where it has some gameplay effects but doesn't just speed up the entire game. Mike agreed that the rules on the matter required clarification, but said nothing more on the matter. I will make a thread in SDA Discussion on the matter later.

It's worth noting that a general limit of 100 FPS was suggested in that thread. Even if changing FPS during the run is grandfathered for Half-Life due to being used in your old run, if you didn't go over 100 FPS back then, you may wish (or may be instructed by Mike) to respect a 100 FPS limit now, if he decides to introduce one when I bring up the issue of framerates again later. Also, as for Quake, the rules on the Getting Started page seem to indicate that frame rate must stay fixed at 72. Perhaps the runs that changed framerate are old and from before that rule was introduced? Someone who knows more about the history of Quake running may be able to chip in here.

Finally, one thing for you to think about. Yeah, some stuff is officially grandfathered for this game - most importantly, scripting. However, it would definitely be good for SDA to have the opportunity to get rid of some of these grandfather clauses - if you could bring the new run in line with the current rules of the site, or at least reduce the scripting to the level of the Source engine runs (i.e. turbo scripts only), you'd be doing the site a big favour. Bear in mind also that quite a few people thought that the 180 turn scripts spoiled the old run, so you'd be improving its reception with all of them by scrapping most of your script usage. Finally, having seen the potential power of scripting shown in dex's 100m script-TAS, if you don't reduce scripts in this way then it'll be optimal to use loads of scripts and to script-TAS as many sections of the run as you can, which will spoil it aesthetically and would - I imagine - take a lot of the satisfaction out of it for you. You'll thus be faced with the choice between an ugly semi-TASlike scripted run, and arbitrarily limiting your script usage to something like it was in your previous run. Imposing a hard rule of no-scripts or turbo scripts only on yourself seems to me like by far the most sensible choice. Your call though.

[quote="Spider-Waffle"][quote]just a question is changing fps during run allowed?[/quote]Pretty sure it's not really cared about, I don't think there's any ruling on it, because it was never looked down on.[/quote]

The rejection Tigger77 was referring to was of [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php?topic=9943.0]Cold Fear[/url]. However that was a fairly different case to this one: as I understand it, the game speed is proportionate to framerate in Colf Fear so increasing the framerate basically means that the [i]entire game[/i] runs faster. Clearly this isn't allowable, but clearly it's not the same as what's being talked about here, either.

However, I did bring up in that thread the more general issue of changing framerates in games where it has some gameplay effects but doesn't just speed up the entire game. Mike agreed that the rules on the matter required clarification, but said nothing more on the matter. I will make a thread in SDA Discussion on the matter later.

It's worth noting that a general limit of 100 FPS was suggested in that thread. Even if changing FPS during the run is grandfathered for Half-Life due to being used in your old run, if you didn't go over 100 FPS back then, you may wish (or may be instructed by Mike) to respect a 100 FPS limit now, if he decides to introduce one when I bring up the issue of framerates again later. Also, as for Quake, the rules on the [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/quake/gettingstarted]Getting Started[/url] page seem to indicate that frame rate must stay fixed at 72. Perhaps the runs that changed framerate are old and from before that rule was introduced? Someone who knows more about the history of Quake running may be able to chip in here.

Finally, one thing for you to think about. Yeah, some stuff is officially grandfathered for this game - most importantly, scripting. However, it would definitely be good for SDA to have the opportunity to get rid of some of these grandfather clauses - if you could bring the new run in line with the current rules of the site, or at least reduce the scripting to the level of the Source engine runs (i.e. turbo scripts only), you'd be doing the site a big favour. Bear in mind also that quite a few people thought that the 180 turn scripts spoiled the old run, so you'd be improving its reception with all of them by scrapping most of your script usage. Finally, having seen the potential power of scripting shown in dex's 100m script-TAS, if you [i]don't[/i] reduce scripts in this way then it'll be optimal to use loads of scripts and to script-TAS as many sections of the run as you can, which will spoil it aesthetically and would - I imagine - take a lot of the satisfaction out of it for you. You'll thus be faced with the choice between an ugly semi-TASlike scripted run, and arbitrarily limiting your script usage to something like it was in your previous run. Imposing a hard rule of no-scripts or turbo scripts only on yourself seems to me like by far the most sensible choice. Your call though.

rayvex

Edit history:

rayvex: 2010-07-12 10:59:41 am

2010-07-12 07:29:02 am

hi

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

steam without freezes would be great, but that is looking next to impossible, maybe with a hack (not mod). WON with dev 1 would be just as good I think.

WON seems to be capped to 100 fps though according to quadrazid's testing results. 250fps is a complete new level of acceleration and speed making it possible to reach nade/tau-boost-like speed with a few jumps.

EDIT: Just attached a little video of some ingame footage with 250fps

Attachment:

bhop_HQ.zip

Ewil

2010-07-12 03:25:43 pm

Wouldn't be "dev 1" thus being able to get higher fps considered as a cheat ?

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2010-07-12 04:46:04 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

It not really a cheat, it's an engine upgrade that was added on in steam, kind of like gl_quake adding on clear water.

The acceleration difference seems pretty small, still took the same the number of jumps to cover the distances as in my run and I didn't even use a loop script to get perfect jumps always.

rayvex

2010-07-12 05:21:56 pm

hi

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

It not really a cheat, it's an engine upgrade that was added on in steam, kind of like gl_quake adding on clear water.

The acceleration difference seems pretty small, still took the same the number of jumps to cover the distances as in my run and I didn't even use a loop script to get perfect jumps always.

believe it or not, the special_ loop script has a worse timing than a decentjump script (x jumps in row script). Of course that part is not long enough to completely save 1 jump. Take the last jump to barney as an example, I had a much greater speed.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2010-07-12 05:55:46 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

I'd say you're accelerating at most 6% more, which would add up to very significant over a long bhoping sequence, there's a few of those in game, where you jump like 30 times, I've got one additional one planned out too. 6% accel on those could add up to save 5 seconds a piece.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2010-07-12 06:16:56 pm

2010-07-12 06:08:05 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

Quote:

Finally, one thing for you to think about. Yeah, some stuff is officially grandfathered for this game - most importantly, scripting. However, it would definitely be good for SDA to have the opportunity to get rid of some of these grandfather clauses - if you could bring the new run in line with the current rules of the site, or at least reduce the scripting to the level of the Source engine runs (i.e. turbo scripts only), you'd be doing the site a big favour. Bear in mind also that quite a few people thought that the 180 turn scripts spoiled the old run, so you'd be improving its reception with all of them by scrapping most of your script usage. Finally, having seen the potential power of scripting shown in dex's 100m script-TAS, if you don't reduce scripts in this way then it'll be optimal to use loads of scripts and to script-TAS as many sections of the run as you can, which will spoil it aesthetically and would - I imagine - take a lot of the satisfaction out of it for you. You'll thus be faced with the choice between an ugly semi-TASlike scripted run, and arbitrarily limiting your script usage to something like it was in your previous run. Imposing a hard rule of no-scripts or turbo scripts only on yourself seems to me like by far the most sensible choice. Your call though.

I think you vastly under estimate how many people liked the run more because of the fast gauss boosting made possible with 180 scripts, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that twice as many people like the run more because of it than liked it less. Bottom line is that the elite runners capable making the fastest runs don't want to cater their runs for the people, whether they are a minority or majority, that don't like scripts. It seems all the elite runners like scripts, thus we will use them in our runs. Even if SDA didn't allow scripts we would still use them and not submit our runs to SDA; most people watch them from youtube anyway. I really think you don't understand what the relationship with scripts is like in the elite community, and until you do, it seems you'll continue with these futile efforts to persuade us to abolish or limit scripts in the runs we make. Your only hope at getting thrown a bone is if an elite runner decided to make a much slower run without scripts just so people like you could enjoy it (though I think your expectations of how enjoyable the run is to watch wouldn't be met after actually seeing what you've thought you've wanted all along). Unfortunately there is no such person.

[quote]Finally, one thing for you to think about. Yeah, some stuff is officially grandfathered for this game - most importantly, scripting. However, it would definitely be good for SDA to have the opportunity to get rid of some of these grandfather clauses - if you could bring the new run in line with the current rules of the site, or at least reduce the scripting to the level of the Source engine runs (i.e. turbo scripts only), you'd be doing the site a big favour. Bear in mind also that quite a few people thought that the 180 turn scripts spoiled the old run, so you'd be improving its reception with all of them by scrapping most of your script usage. Finally, having seen the potential power of scripting shown in dex's 100m script-TAS, if you don't reduce scripts in this way then it'll be optimal to use loads of scripts and to script-TAS as many sections of the run as you can, which will spoil it aesthetically and would - I imagine - take a lot of the satisfaction out of it for you. You'll thus be faced with the choice between an ugly semi-TASlike scripted run, and arbitrarily limiting your script usage to something like it was in your previous run. Imposing a hard rule of no-scripts or turbo scripts only on yourself seems to me like by far the most sensible choice. Your call though.[/quote]

I think you vastly under estimate how many people liked the run more because of the fast gauss boosting made possible with 180 scripts, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that twice as many people like the run more because of it than liked it less.  Bottom line is that the elite runners capable making the fastest runs don't want to cater their runs for the people, whether they are a minority or majority, that don't like scripts.  It seems all the elite runners like scripts, thus we will use them in our runs.  Even if SDA didn't allow scripts we would still use them and not submit our runs to SDA; most people watch them from youtube anyway.  I really think you don't understand what the relationship with scripts is like in the elite community, and until you do, it seems you'll continue with these futile efforts to persuade us to abolish or limit scripts in the runs we make.  Your only hope at getting thrown a bone is if an elite runner decided to make a much slower run without scripts just so people like you could enjoy it (though I think your expectations of how enjoyable the run is to watch wouldn't be met after actually seeing what you've thought you've wanted all along).  Unfortunately there is no such person.

quadrazid

Edit history:

quadrazid: 2010-07-13 05:23:08 pm

2010-07-12 06:45:43 pm

Svart Lyser Tronen

I tried around a bit more with high and low fps with NPC's. Mostly they walk and turn simultaneously, but It's only faster/slower when they are standing still and turning.

High fps (250) (since higher than 250 makes you move in slowmotion, its not a good idea) can be used at all places where you want to avoid monsters, as they have to turn and face you before they attack. Same thing with crabs, grunts and alienslaves, tentacles ect.
Low fps (<20) can be used at all places when you have to wait for NPC's to walk somewhere, face scanners, push them at doors and similar. As they most likely at some point are standing still turning. Gonarch is a good example.

E: Grenades and satchels have significant lower friction with low fps.

quadrazid

2010-07-12 08:22:37 pm

Svart Lyser Tronen

In the beginning of Blast Pit, the pretty long railtrack that crashes at the end and make you fly forward. You can save up to 2 seconds skipping the train completely and bunnyhop all way to the ladder. Maybe even afford a small grenadeboost up to the big pipe and save even more time.

I was surprised not seeing this in project CR

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2010-07-13 04:03:43 am

2010-07-12 09:06:40 pm

Don't think! feeeeeal

I was planning to grenade jump there. You you also might be able to get up by the slope on the end of the pipe above the boxes in the middle, or with enough speed launch off the sloped surface at the end of the track. I think you can grenade jump while taking about 20 damage though so no health would be waisted, but needs to be tested. You would need to get as much armor as possible off that charger before the scientist is done talking, I think you can get 12-14.

RandomEngy

2010-07-12 11:50:41 pm

A Crab

One data point here: I didn't think the 180 scripts made the run more impressive. Anyway, best of luck on the new run. Would not have dreamed that there were another 3 minutes to save!

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

2010-07-13 01:36:03 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

I make speedruns with the sole objective goal in mind to make the run as fast as possible, if people are impressed more or less by different methods I could hardly care.

3 minutes is pushing it, my best estimate is 2:41, which is 27:00 exactly.

ExplodingCabbage

2010-07-13 02:56:05 am

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

I think you vastly under estimate how many people liked the run more because of the fast gauss boosting made possible with 180 scripts, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that twice as many people like the run more because of it than liked it less.

What are you basing this on?

Quote:

Bottom line is that the elite runners capable making the fastest runs don't want to cater their runs for the people, whether they are a minority or majority, that don't like scripts. It seems all the elite runners like scripts, thus we will use them in our runs. Even if SDA didn't allow scripts we would still use them and not submit our runs to SDA; most people watch them from youtube anyway. I really think you don't understand what the relationship with scripts is like in the elite community, and until you do, it seems you'll continue with these futile efforts to persuade us to abolish or limit scripts in the runs we make.

Oh really? Who is this 'elite community', pray tell, and what makes them so special? Spider-Waffle, you are a good runner, but that is no call for showing contempt to others. Can we have this conversation politely, please?

Anyway, you haven't really touched on my main point/question. If you are going to use scripts, are you going to use them optimally (i.e. basically fully script every segment and then sit back and watch, which in light of dex's 100m run is probably the optimal approach to a scripted run)? If not, how are you going to limit your own script usage? You complain about me trying to get you to limit your script usage, but you're going to have to limit it yourself somehow anyway (unless you want to make a script-TAS) so I don't understand at all why you've objected to what I've said, let alone objected with such hostility.

[quote="Spider-Waffle"]I think you vastly under estimate how many people liked the run more because of the fast gauss boosting made possible with 180 scripts, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that twice as many people like the run more because of it than liked it less.[/quote]

What are you basing this on?

[quote]Bottom line is that the elite runners capable making the fastest runs don't want to cater their runs for the people, whether they are a minority or majority, that don't like scripts.  It seems all the elite runners like scripts, thus we will use them in our runs. Even if SDA didn't allow scripts we would still use them and not submit our runs to SDA; most people watch them from youtube anyway.  I really think you don't understand what the relationship with scripts is like in the elite community, and until you do, it seems you'll continue with these futile efforts to persuade us to abolish or limit scripts in the runs we make.[/quote]

Oh really? Who is this 'elite community', pray tell, and what makes them so special? Spider-Waffle, you are a good runner, but that is no call for showing contempt to others. Can we have this conversation politely, please?

Anyway, you haven't really touched on my main point/question. If you are going to use scripts, are you going to use them optimally (i.e. basically fully script every segment and then sit back and watch, which in light of dex's 100m run is probably the optimal approach to a scripted run)? If not, how are you going to limit your own script usage? You complain about me trying to get you to limit your script usage, but you're going to have to limit it yourself somehow anyway (unless you want to make a script-TAS) so I don't understand at all why you've objected to what I've said, let alone objected with such hostility.

Spider-Waffle

(user is banned)

Spider-Waffle

Edit history:

Spider-Waffle: 2010-07-13 03:45:53 am

2010-07-13 03:33:34 am

Don't think! feeeeeal

I'm not basing it on anything, I just said it isn't unreasonable to think that.

They elite community are the people that hold records or can get records for HL speedrunning: rayvex, quad, rofi, mavrick, groobo, myself and probably some others. I'm not showing contempt, I'm just saying the people that are capable of world records are all going to be using scripts, thus no run is going to be beat someone without scripts, and you're never going to get a world record caliber, slower, scriptless run, unless a new world class player comes along that doesn't like scripts. I think world class would have better to use instead of elite, I am sorry if the meaning got equivocated.

I tried to tell everyone that you can't just make a script that will run the game. What dex did was make a script for a simpler game that demands less resources and has more stable fps to run a straight a line on flat ground without any obstructions in the way or pseudo-random events, and it didn't even get the same result every time it was run. I challenged him to make a script that would beat my first 10 odd second segment, he never accepted the challenge. Dex's 100m script on quake in no way proves that you can make a run with only scripts.

Scripting will be used as much it has been in any speedrun, things like jumping, chopping, and special sequences that can be done in low amount of frames while not receiving new input from user.

I'm not trying to be hostile but am I trying to be very direct in making the point that trying to get world class players to use less scripts is futile and should never be tried again, and especially not in this thread. Our relationship with scripts just simply isn't understood people that are no where close to spending thousands of hours playing the game at it's highest level with scripts against other people who are playing the game at it's highest level with scripts, because I never hope to make people understand why we use scripts so much, but rather illustrate the point that you just need to accept it.

I'm not basing it on anything, I just said it isn't unreasonable to think that.

They elite community are the people that hold records or can get records for HL speedrunning: rayvex, quad, rofi, mavrick, groobo, myself and probably some others.  I'm not showing contempt, I'm just saying the people that are capable of world records are all going to be using scripts, thus no run is going to be beat someone without scripts, and you're never going to get a world record caliber, slower, scriptless run, unless a new world class player comes along that doesn't like scripts.  I think world class would have better to use instead of elite, I am sorry if the meaning got equivocated.

I tried to tell everyone that you can't just make a script that will run the game.  What dex did was make a script for a simpler game that demands less resources and has more stable fps to run a straight a line on flat ground without any obstructions in the way or pseudo-random events, and it didn't even get the same result every time it was run.  I challenged him to make a script that would beat my first 10 odd second segment, he never accepted the challenge.  Dex's 100m script on quake in no way proves that you can make a run with only scripts.

Scripting will be used as much it has been in any speedrun, things like jumping, chopping, and special sequences that can be done in low amount of frames while not receiving new input from user.

I'm not trying to be hostile but am I trying to be very direct in making the point that trying to get world class players to use less scripts is futile and should never be tried again, and especially not in this thread.  Our relationship with scripts just simply isn't understood people that are no where close to spending thousands of hours playing the game at it's highest level with scripts against other people who are playing the game at it's highest level with scripts, because I never hope to make people understand why we use scripts so much, but rather illustrate the point that you just need to accept it.

ridd3r.

2010-07-13 05:37:04 am

we have lift off

Quote from Spider-Waffle:

I'm not basing it on anything, I just said it isn't unreasonable to think that.

How is it reasonable to state something which isn't based on anything, especially something suggesting a majority of people think something? Making up statistics isn't reasonable.

You may not care what people who disagree with scripts think of your run and of course half the stuff you do wouldn't really be possible without them but it does raise the issue as Cabbage says that how good you are at this game could theoretically really only be limited by your scripting knowledge and not your user input. If some script wizard were to attempt this run maybe they could script 5-10% more of the run than you are, doesn't that strike you as completely against what SDA is about?