Wolfenstein 3D

2005-05-05 05:51:56 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I've seen the runs of Doom and Quake. Anyone know if there's any runs of this old game? Was reminded of it while watching the Doom2 run as they went through the Wolf level near the end.

Would be a cool run to see, very old school.

Thread title:

Exinex

2005-05-06 06:29:59 am

O_0

If I can find a decent way to record my runs, I'll definitely get working on this. Slightly inebriated at the moment, so I'll work on finding a method over the next few days.

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-05-06 08:40:14 am

2005-05-06 07:50:41 am

Just for the heck of it, I decided to see what my times would be. So far:

Floor 1-1: 0:39
Floor 1-10: 1:59
Floor 1-2: 0:35
Floor 1-3: 0:36
Floor 1-4: 0:36

That's it for now. I know they could be better. I'm not used to playing FPS games without 100% kills, so it's a learning experience. Tongue

Don't know if I'll actually speedrun or not, as I have plenty on my plate for online stuff at the moment...

warfox

2005-05-06 09:49:00 am

militant mammal

There's a Wolfenstein 3D fast level completions and score site, [url]www.angelfire.com/id/choksta/highlife.html[/url] the guy running it completed every episode of the game on bring em on difficulty in 30 minutes, pretty sick. Anyway to get your score/time listed you have to download a file that records your save so the guy behind the site can check if you used cheats and stuff when you send in your save file

Juncti

2005-05-06 02:29:53 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Sweet stuff, I'll check it out.

As for the never playing without doing 100%, you could always go for a 100% speed run. Get all kills/secrets on all levels. That would be a nice feat to watch as well.

Exinex

Edit history:

Exinex: 2005-05-06 05:27:19 pm

2005-05-06 05:09:25 pm

O_0

After each map, you start the next with the amount of health/ammo you ended the last map with. Does this mean that we should run through the whole chapter of maps? Or is there some way we can segment it?

Edit: After you finish a level, you can hit ESC and save the game. When you choose to load the game, the timer will reset at 0, and you will have the same health/ammo you saved with.

Has anyone found a way to record this game? Fraps/Camtasia won't seem to work, plus I can't get it to output to my TV via S-Video.

Juncti

2005-05-06 05:42:36 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Here's a question, where can you get this game anymore? My copy was lost like 4 computers ago lol Back in the day of floppy installs Grin

Stubgaard

2005-05-06 06:21:34 pm

Hey Ho Let's Go

Juncti: You might want to check out this little nifty program which allows for demo recording in Wolfenstein. It's much like the QdQstats progs for Quake and DdQstats for Doom, but we never got around to use it, so feel free to download and abuse it in any way you like Wink

www.planetquake.com/qdq/wolfdem.zip

Juncti

Edit history:

Juncti: 2005-05-06 08:02:49 pm

2005-05-06 07:36:23 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

That looks cool, now I just have to find myself a copy of the game.

Edit - Think I just found one on google. Sweet. Have to try this out in a bit.

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-13 04:47:15 am

OMG, there IS demo recording in Wolfenstein?!? Awesome.

I would love to see quality speedruns of this game, as I've played through the whole thing and found it extremely difficult, much moreso than Doom.

What is there as far as glitches go? I know that in one level, E4M2 I think, you can get guards to open all the locked doors for you. Other than that I don't know much...

But yeah, this would be amazing to see.

One more thing, is there a similar program for Spear of Destiny? That game is on a whole other level of sickness at IADI and would be even cooler to watch.

Thanks,
Josh.

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-17 08:31:49 pm

Alright, I messed around a bit with the demo program. In Dosbox, at least, it's REALLY messed-up.

The graphics are wacky, and you can't see the status bar. Also, when I tried recording, it automatically stopped after a certain period of time and didn't save anything.

Is it better in real DOS?

-Josh

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-20 02:32:27 am

OK, bumping this up again...

I figure we could talk about Spear of Destiny in this thread also, since that game's basically a glorified mission pack. Just one tip here...I found a little discussion elsewhere involving some speedrunners, and they collectively determined that it saves time to go to the first secret level, but not the second. Just FYI, in case anyone's interested.

Also, a question...what controls do you guys use? I know mouse + keyboard is supposed to be best, but what do you assign to the mouse buttons and what keys do you use for what?

Thanks,
Josh.

Juncti

2005-05-20 02:41:47 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I haven't been able to get the game to run well on my system, so I'm hoping someone else will be able to pull off some good speed demos. Maybe elbryan42 can demo those times so we can see how well these demos come out and if a whole run is even possible.

Only other option would be for someone who has the SNES version to speed run that.

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-21 05:24:23 am

Hmm, are you using WinXP or somesuch? If so, you'll need Dosbox to run it (and other DOS games) well. I forget the address, you can google it or something, but it's an awesome program indeed.

And please please PLEASE do not mention the SNES version. It never happened, you hear me? IT NEVER HAPPENED.

-Josh

KennyMan666

2005-05-22 12:34:32 am

Precursor

Quote:

And please please PLEASE do not mention the SNES version. It never happened, you hear me? IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Of course it didn't, everyone knows that Goldeneye 007 was the first console FPS ever!

>__>

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-22 05:37:47 am

Kennyman: I wish it were, I wish it were...

OK, I figured out the problem. Wolfenstein already had built-in demo recording, but it would only last a small amount of time and serve as the in-game demo. The program linked to on this thread is just the same thing, except it can play back demos and let you choose your starting level and stats.

I'll e-mail the guy and see what's up...

-Josh

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-24 10:06:44 pm

Alright, just a random tip: If you pick up the chaingun, it gives you the machine gun if you don't already have it.

Another thing I was wondering...if there's ever going to be max speedruns, what do we do about E2M8? That's the level with the maze of over 100 secret walls, and it is impossible to get them all. Additionally, there's an extra life and Hans Grosse hidden here, and you can only find one or the other; thus, you can reach either 100% kills or treasure, but not both.

Also, the secret and boss levels don't display stats, but you can use FloEdit to look at those and determine where all the items/enemies/secrets are.

-Josh

Juncti

2005-05-24 10:33:49 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

If you're doing this as a run what you get depends on the type of run you want to do.

Just a straight speed run would be how fast you can make it from start to finish, 100% run would mean going after all those secrets. Both types would be fun to watch. They each display different styles of gameplay.

Hopefully someone will do a complete run, can't get the game running well on my system so only way I'll see one is if one get's posted.

Yoshi348

2005-05-24 11:02:14 pm

dinosaur from the past

No, what he's saying is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to get 100% on that level, due to the way it's structured.

Personally, I would say to get the maximum percent possible with all those walls and to either a) let the player have his choice of the treasure or kills or b) go with whichever one leads to a higher "total" percent (for example, if there's 8 treasure items and only 3 enemies, taking the enemy results in a "total" of about 188% while taking the treasure results in a "total" of about 166%).

twoton

2005-05-24 11:07:25 pm

I am indifferent towards YABB

IMO - a 100% run is just the term for a max-stat run.

If the max stat of the game is 99.99% (or whatever), then achieving that is fulfilling the "100% run" requirement.

Term is ambiguous for cases where getting 100% in the game is impossible.

As for the 100 secrets or whatever - that's life. If you don't get them all, then it's not a 100% run.

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2005-05-25 08:09:24 pm

2005-05-24 11:47:04 pm

Precursor

Quote:

As for the 100 secrets or whatever - that's life. If you don't get them all, then it's not a 100% run.

That's not it.

I've never seen that maze myself, but I've heard rumors about it... it's the same maze where something was hidden for some sort of contest, right? You should call ID Software and say whatever was written on a wall or something like that...

The point is that it is physically impossible to get 100% in the maze, as opening one secret wall can completely block access to a room including items/kills, and it's impossible to take them in such an order that you can actually get it all.

So there'll never be a 300% run of that floor.

Edit: Hehe... found a map of the stage. That maze... madness!

Edit 2: 179 rooms. Holy hell. Cheesy

twoton

2005-05-25 01:45:52 am

I am indifferent towards YABB

Found this in the 3DRealms FAQ.

Getting 100% in Episode 2 level 8

The problem that you are having in Episode 2 Level 8 of Wolfenstein 3D, is due to fact that it is impossible to get 100% within that level. The reason for this is because there are many areas within the maze that you can go to one part or the other, but not both. Also there are areas that as designed as a "Red Herring" for this level, you cannot get to.

Since it's been confirmed by the actual developers that it's not possible to get 100%, I'd suggest that whatever maximum is actually possible be the "100%".

That would allow people to do a 100% run if they want to.

The only problem would be "proving" that their percentage really is the max possible. Like what happens if somebody does a 1hr run at 99.98% claiming it to be a 100% run - and then somebody else does a 1hr2min 99.99% run?

Even though it's faster, does the first one just lose all status because (in light of the new evidence) it never was a 100% run?

Yoshi348

2005-05-25 04:23:12 am

dinosaur from the past

AUGH! It's Nethack! Shocked

...In any case... I guess, twoton, that the latter would be the case, judging from Prime low percents. Thing is, though, we could sit down and figure out the optimal percent from studying the map before hand... I'm no good at this kind of puzzle solving, but hopefully someone else out there knows how to approach this.

Josh the FunkDOC

2005-05-26 06:48:18 am

Hey guys, I've made some demos!

No, they aren't true speedruns, I still suck. But they do show the fastest way through a couple of the game's shortest levels. All of them are on IADI difficulty and start with just the pistol and 8 bullets.

They can be found at http://www.filespace.org/PunchRockgroin , look for the files with .dem at the end.

I showcased both ways in E2M1 as they are similar in length...this is the only level in the game where the secret exit actually MIGHT be faster. If one were to do a whole-episode run, though, skipping the secret level is clearly quicker.

E2M7 is the single shortest level in the game, and this video shows why. There's a secret door in the elevator room that leads to this huge area full of decaying yellow stone and all kinds of enemies; this really feels like the main section of the level, as if the starting area was just an afterthought...rather strange level, this.

The E4M10 demo is pretty cool, I think. Those who have played it know how ridiculous this level is...for those who haven't, the whole thing is a diamond-shaped maze populated with 75 white officers. If you fire a single shot, EVERY OFFICER IN THE WHOLE FREAKING LEVEL will know where you are and come running right for you. Supposedly it's possible to kill all of them, with just the starting pistol + 8 bullets...I've never done it, but this video shows the other way to beat this level. Ah, confusing and illogical secret levels, how I adore thee...

Anyway, to play these, get the program linked to in Stubgaard's post on this thread and follow the instructions in the readme.

Oh yeah, and you can ONLY record a demo of 1 level. =(

-Josh

Hey guys, I've made some demos!

No, they aren't true speedruns, I still suck.  But they do show the fastest way through a couple of the game's shortest levels.  All of them are on IADI difficulty and start with just the pistol and 8 bullets.

They can be found at http://www.filespace.org/PunchRockgroin , look for the files with .dem at the end.

I showcased both ways in E2M1 as they are similar in length...this is the only level in the game where the secret exit actually MIGHT be faster.  If one were to do a whole-episode run, though, skipping the secret level is clearly quicker.

E2M7 is the single shortest level in the game, and this video shows why.  There's a secret door in the elevator room that leads to this huge area full of decaying yellow stone and all kinds of enemies; this really feels like the  main section of the level, as if the starting area was just an afterthought...rather strange level, this.

The E4M10 demo is pretty cool, I think.  Those who have played it know how ridiculous this level is...for those who haven't, the whole thing is a diamond-shaped maze populated with 75 white officers.  If you fire a single shot, EVERY OFFICER IN THE WHOLE FREAKING LEVEL will know where you are and come running right for you.  Supposedly it's possible to kill all of them, with just the starting pistol + 8 bullets...I've never done it, but this video shows the other way to beat this level.  Ah, confusing and illogical secret levels, how I adore thee...

Anyway, to play these, get the program linked to in Stubgaard's post on this thread and follow the instructions in the readme.

Oh yeah, and you can ONLY record a demo of 1 level. =(

-Josh

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2005-05-26 08:15:43 pm

2005-05-26 08:14:25 pm

guffaw

as far as the one-demo-only thing goes, the game's source code can be downloaded from various places, so I imagine this could be hacked if you could find a copy of a suitable DOS C compiler (Borland Turbo C or something, I believe this is freeware now). Of course using a hacked version would begin to raise question marks over the legality of runs, but I suppose this is true for most games that have modifiable source codes.

wrt the 300% E2M8 problem, by far the fastest way to find the optimal route through that maze for maximum % collection would be to write a computer program to do it - don't even think about cooking it by hand.

would be a nice job for a program written in Prolog in fact. Wink