VVVVVV 100%

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2011-03-28 12:07:34 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-07 10:54:03 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-04 10:10:30 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-04 10:10:09 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-04 09:51:42 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-04 09:51:20 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-03 10:42:19 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-12-02 09:01:59 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-28 09:56:58 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-27 09:46:54 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-25 04:54:19 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-20 11:44:33 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-18 01:02:27 am

Tranquilite: 2010-11-17 01:26:42 am

Tranquilite: 2010-11-17 01:18:45 am

Tranquilite: 2010-11-16 02:14:25 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-15 11:59:10 pm

2010-11-15 11:57:01 pm

Done, and done.
Part 1:

Part 2:

EDIT: New part 2 with updated final segment. new time is 18:20

UPDATE:All segments are now available on my Google Docs
UPDATE2:Youtube videos on latest posts.

So I bought VVVVVV somewhat recently, and seem to have fallen in love with the game enough to have a go at speed running it. I decided that I would have a go at doing 100% segmented and am now far enough along with the run that I've determined to make a thread for it.

My motivation for doing the 100% run segmented is thus:
1) I'm not sure I have the capacity to drill myself to perfection getting all those devilishly tricky Shiny Trinkets without a significant number of deaths, and
2) Because this category benefits greatly from Death/Save warping (there are a couple examples of both in the WIP I have attached to this Post)

Additionaly, I figured it would also be nice to get some consensus on what a 100% definition is. All I have for sure is that you need to get all 20 Shiny Trinkets. I suppose you may also want to include unlocking the secret lab, but that happens after the end of the game and only needs to be done once regardless of how many times you play through the game...

So... any thoughts on what the 100% defenition should be? Also, I have a WIP of the first 5 segments attached to this post. Have a gander and tell me what you think.

Thread title:

Done, and done.
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctaRPXHJ3rU

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjWkQGRZLns

EDIT: New part 2 with updated final segment. new time is 18:20

[s]UPDATE:All segments are now available on my [url=https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-Z4jk3XyRxQMDkxOGViNjAtZTI1MC00ODZmLTkwZDgtNDI4YWU2YWNiODRm&hl=en]Google Docs[/url]
UPDATE2:Youtube videos on latest posts.[/s]

So I bought VVVVVV somewhat recently, and seem to have fallen in love with the game enough to have a go at speed running it. I decided that I would have a go at doing 100% segmented and am now far enough along with the run that I've determined to make a thread for it.

My motivation for doing the 100% run segmented is thus:
1) I'm not sure I have the capacity to drill myself to perfection getting all those devilishly tricky Shiny Trinkets without a significant number of deaths, and
2) Because this category benefits greatly from Death/Save warping (there are a couple examples of both in the WIP I have attached to this Post)

Additionaly, I figured it would also be nice to get some consensus on what a 100% definition is. All I have for sure is that you need to get all 20 Shiny Trinkets. I suppose you may also want to include unlocking the secret lab, but that happens after the end of the game and only needs to be done once regardless of how many times you play through the game...

So... any thoughts on what the 100% defenition should be? Also, I have a WIP of the first 5 segments attached to this post. Have a gander and tell me what you think.

Attachment:

VVVVVV_HQ.mp4

ZenicReverie

2010-11-16 12:38:03 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

I don't see the need for a separate thread to discuss 100%:

http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/vvvvvv_1816_so_far_on_yt.html

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-16 01:23:44 am

Tranquilite: 2010-11-16 01:23:33 am

2010-11-16 01:22:33 am

Other games do have separate threads for different run categories and i figured i might as well post a new thread because i am actively working on a run, but I do admit that VVVVVV is probably not popular enough to warrant a separate thread, and while I was hoping to attract attention quicker this way, I would not mind if a mod merged this with the other VVVVVV thread. Either way is fine by me.

ZenicReverie

2010-11-16 08:42:53 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

How does one unlock the secret lab?

65

2010-11-16 12:21:46 pm

IIRC, to unlock the secret lab, you need to collect all trinkets, resume the game (after beating it), visit the trinket area (maybe talk to the one in the room?), then you get a cut scene and then you can enter the secret lab. Essentially, collect all trinkets and it's hard to miss.

My question is, are the trophies necessary? Because those will be a pain in the ass to get (no deaths being one requirement, so no death abuse if this is true).

Personally, I'd prefer separate threads because the route & some strategies change considerably and thus this arrangement would be easier to keep track of, instead of having two wholly separate plannings mushed together.

Will look into the WIP later.

Tranquilite

2010-11-16 01:41:33 pm

Well it is impossible to get all the trophies along with all the trinkets in one play through seeing as how the Trinket located in "Prize for the Reckless" cannot be gotten without dieing, additionally no-death mode is a separate mode where you are NOT allowed to save so segmenting that would be impossible. Some of the other trophies include beating the game in flip mode, surviving for certain amounts of time on the graviton, and getting 'V' ranks on the time trials. A good deal of these trophies are completely separate from the main game. So not only would getting all the trophies be ridiculously difficult, but would require a large amount of redundant play (time trials, no-death mode, regular mode).

mikwuyma

2010-11-16 01:56:59 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I've played through this game before (fun game, BTW) and 100% is collecting all of the trinkets. The bonus room is a reward you're given after collecting everything, and the trophies are the equivalent of achievements, not in-game items.

Tranquilite

2010-11-16 02:12:57 pm

Oh good, I was beginning to get a little worried there. Well anyway, I guess I'll just proceed with what i was doing then.

Phoenix3568

2010-11-16 02:26:33 pm

Procrastination Nation!

I also bought the game pretty recently. I really like it and would not mind helping with the run if I could.

Also death/save warping is essential for some of the trinkets. A no death run is pretty impossible. The hardest part (supposedly) is the graviton section, though with lots of practice it could be doable since the pattern is fixed, unlike super graviton. Will watch this thing and give it some comments.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-17 01:30:39 am

2010-11-17 01:23:44 am

Finished another segment today (#6). Took me more recording attempts than any segment so far (179 to be exact). Gordian Knot is my new least favorite screen. Also if you are wondering why I kept this segment despite the little slip up on the first entrance to Gordian Knot is actually because I managed to pull off the super-quick-'The Solution is Dilution' which does not happen consistently. If fact I have no idea how to pull it off consistently as I can enter the screen the exact same way, and hold down the exact same key for the exact same amount of time and still get different results...

Well anyway, its over with, so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

Also I am now going to encode each segment separately from now on, and upload them to my google docs

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-18 12:59:15 am

2010-11-18 12:58:28 am

Another day, another segment. Segment 7 is complete.

With this segment, I was able to get a passable recording after only 31 attempts with an ending time of 7:38, but there were a couple spots where my execution could have been a little tighter, so I decided that I would continue trying until I got to 50 attempts and then take what I had. Low and behold, attempt number 49 netted me a winner with an ending time of 7:37. Once again, this segment, along with all my other segments, can be found at My Google Docs

Also one thing I would like to point out for anyone who might be considering doing a segmented run of VVVVVV in the future, is that teleporter saves are dangerous, the reason being that everytime you load from a teleporter save, a few fractions of a second pass before the game detects that you are at a teleporter, which then autosaves again. This means that every time you load a save from a teleporter, it is almost immediately overwritten with another save and some time is lost, about 2 seconds every dozen or so loads. In order to combat this oversight, one must manually back up their saves, close VVVVVV, copy your save over, and then run VVVVVV in order to preserve your times. It certainly makes it more of a pain to record those segments, so make it is advisable to use quicksaves if possible, as they are not affected by this problem. VVVVVV stores its saves at:

C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\Roaming\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\*SomeIDString8LettersLong*\localhost\*PathToWhereYouInstalledVVVVVV*\VVVVVVV\VVVVVV.exe\*someSaveFiles*.sol

(This is for Windows 7/Vista, if you are running XP, you may have to dig through Documents and Settings to find where the saves are stored)

On a positive note, this means that the in-game timer for VVVVVV is very precise and keeps track of even fractions of seconds, even though it does not ever report it.

Also, sorry about the double post, I felt that there was enough information to warrant another post, though I am unaware of this forum's exact stance on double posting, so someone tell me if I'm making a boo-boo.

Another day, another segment. Segment 7 is complete.

With this segment, I was able to get a passable recording after only 31 attempts with an ending time of 7:38, but there were a couple spots where my execution could have been a little tighter, so I decided that I would continue trying until I got to 50 attempts and then take what I had. Low and behold, attempt number 49 netted me a winner with an ending time of 7:37. Once again, this segment, along with all my other segments, can be found at [url=https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-Z4jk3XyRxQMDkxOGViNjAtZTI1MC00ODZmLTkwZDgtNDI4YWU2YWNiODRm&hl=en]My Google Docs[/url]

Also one thing I would like to point out for anyone who might be considering doing a segmented run of VVVVVV in the future, is that teleporter saves are [b]dangerous[/b], the reason being that everytime you load from a teleporter save, a few fractions of a second pass before the game detects that you are at a teleporter, which then autosaves again. This means that every time you load a save from a teleporter, it is almost immediately overwritten with another save and some time is lost, about 2 seconds every dozen or so loads. In order to combat this oversight, one must manually back up their saves, close VVVVVV, copy your save over, and then run VVVVVV in order to preserve your times. It certainly makes it more of a pain to record those segments, so make it is advisable to use quicksaves if possible, as they are not affected by this problem. VVVVVV stores its saves at:
[hidden]
C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\Roaming\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\*SomeIDString8LettersLong*\localhost\*PathToWhereYouInstalledVVVVVV*\VVVVVVV\VVVVVV.exe\*someSaveFiles*.sol

(This is for Windows 7/Vista, if you are running XP, you may have to dig through Documents and Settings to find where the saves are stored)[/hidden]
On a positive note, this means that the in-game timer for VVVVVV is very precise and keeps track of even fractions of seconds, even though it does not ever report it.

Also, sorry about the double post, I felt that there was enough information to warrant another post, though I am unaware of this forum's exact stance on double posting, so someone tell me if I'm making a boo-boo.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-20 11:45:05 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-20 11:43:56 pm

2010-11-20 11:43:34 pm

Two more segments up. Nothing much to say about these two other than that they went quite will with little to no big problems. As always, you can find those segments at My google Docs

Additionally, i attempted to upload my current segments to Youtube and was rewarded with something not utterly garbage (completely broken video). Quality is pretty sucky though, but whatever. If you want quality then just download it from my google docs.

ExplodingCabbage

2010-11-21 08:00:27 am

Hey. Just bought this game and am watching your run now.

Nice death abuse and save-warping, nice execution for the most part.

One thing you don't seem to have realised, given your post suggesting using quicksaves instead of autosaves, and the fact that you scroll to the 'save' option in the menu by pressing 'right' three times instead of pressing 'left' once, is that the timer keeps running in the menu. Quicksaving costs time, in other words.

Here's what critcism I could come up with for the first level:

* The Yes Men can be done about a second faster with a really hard method.
* You would've saved about 3 seconds by leaving trench warfare after the dialogue and re-entering to reset the platform position, instead of waiting for it to return, and then using the (relatively easy) method from this video.

Besides these points and minor hesitations, the first level seems perfect.

The rest of the run I haven't looked at in much detail yet, and I haven't tested anything, but these are my thoughts just from watching it:

* Did you try avoiding the checkpoint right before the trinket on Young Man, It's Worth The Challenge? I can't tell if it's possible at a glance, probably not.
* You should've ended a segment when you hit the teleporter in Entanglement Generator. It costs you nothing to do so, and it would've let you perfectly optimise the next two rooms (where instead you lose a couple of seconds to execution mistakes).
* Getting a successful run of 'the solution is dilution' is poor justification for letting the mistake on Gordian Knot slide given that you immediately lose exactly the same amount of time with your hesitation at the end of Lighter Than Air.
* I wonder if quicksaving and loading after hitting the first checkpoint in Just Pick Yourself Down would be faster than waiting for the platform to come back? Probably nothing in it.
* What happens in Frown Upside Down if you flip just before triggering the dialogue, so that you die after the game goes into dialogue mode? I'm just thinking about possible ways to break dialogue here, maybe it'll prove useful in a similar situation later.
* On Don't Be Afraid, you can run straight across the first gap instead of flipping onto the ceiling. Not sure how much time it saves.

A final thought. Have you figured out what order you're doing the levels in yet? There's no discussion of it in the thread so far but I would've thought it'd be a fairly complicated planning problem.

Hey. Just bought this game and am watching your run now.

Nice death abuse and save-warping, nice execution for the most part.

One thing you don't seem to have realised, given your post suggesting using quicksaves instead of autosaves, and the fact that you scroll to the 'save' option in the menu by pressing 'right' three times instead of pressing 'left' once, is that the timer keeps running in the menu. Quicksaving costs time, in other words.

Here's what critcism I could come up with for the first level:

* The Yes Men can be done [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVo17_isRc]about a second faster[/url] with a really hard method.
* You would've saved about 3 seconds by leaving trench warfare after the dialogue and re-entering to reset the platform position, instead of waiting for it to return, and then using the (relatively easy) method from [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVo17_isRc]this video[/url].

Besides these points and minor hesitations, the first level seems perfect.

The rest of the run I haven't looked at in much detail yet, and I haven't tested anything, but these are my thoughts just from watching it:

* Did you try avoiding the checkpoint right before the trinket on Young Man, It's Worth The Challenge? I can't tell if it's possible at a glance, probably not.
* You should've ended a segment when you hit the teleporter in Entanglement Generator. It costs you nothing to do so, and it would've let you perfectly optimise the next two rooms (where instead you lose a couple of seconds to execution mistakes).
* Getting a successful run of 'the solution is dilution' is poor justification for letting the mistake on Gordian Knot slide given that you immediately lose exactly the same amount of time with your hesitation at the end of Lighter Than Air.
* I wonder if quicksaving and loading after hitting the first checkpoint in Just Pick Yourself Down would be faster than waiting for the platform to come back? Probably nothing in it.
* What happens in Frown Upside Down if you flip just before triggering the dialogue, so that you die after the game goes into dialogue mode? I'm just thinking about possible ways to break dialogue here, maybe it'll prove useful in a similar situation later.
* On Don't Be Afraid, you can run straight across the first gap instead of flipping onto the ceiling. Not sure how much time it saves.

A final thought. Have you figured out what order you're doing the levels in yet? There's no discussion of it in the thread so far but I would've thought it'd be a fairly complicated planning problem.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-21 06:18:44 pm

2010-11-21 06:14:29 pm

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

One thing you don't seem to have realised, given your post suggesting using quicksaves instead of autosaves, and the fact that you scroll to the 'save' option in the menu by pressing 'right' three times instead of pressing 'left' once, is that the timer keeps running in the menu. Quicksaving costs time, in other words.

Incidentally, it only recently occurred to me that you could quicksave by pressing left once instead of right 3 times (durr).

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* The Yes Men can be done about a second faster with a really hard method.
* You would've saved about 3 seconds by leaving trench warfare after the dialogue and re-entering to reset the platform position, instead of waiting for it to return, and then using the (relatively easy) method from this video.

Thanks for pointing out that video, I should have searched more for fast time trial times, as they appear to have many strategies that could be useful. It may even be possible to use that Trench Warfare strategy without re-entering the screen.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* Did you try avoiding the checkpoint right before the trinket on Young Man, It's Worth The Challenge? I can't tell if it's possible at a glance, probably not.

Unfortunately, you cant skip that checkpoint.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* You should've ended a segment when you hit the teleporter in Entanglement Generator. It costs you nothing to do so, and it would've let you perfectly optimise the next two rooms (where instead you lose a couple of seconds to execution mistakes).

My initial justification was that I didn't want to overly segment things, trying to at least have ~1min per segment, but looking back on things, it just seems like I'm just shooting myself in the foot xD

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* Getting a successful run of 'the solution is dilution' is poor justification for letting the mistake on Gordian Knot slide given that you immediately lose exactly the same amount of time with your hesitation at the end of Lighter Than Air.

I'm not sure what to say about this one. Because there have been multiple times where I have done everything perfect only to die on The Solution is Dilution' In fact, it seems to be that the only times where I have made it through has been when I have made some kind of mistake on Gordian Knot... But yeah, that segment can certainly use some work.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* I wonder if quicksaving and loading after hitting the first checkpoint in Just Pick Yourself Down would be faster than waiting for the platform to come back? Probably nothing in it.

Doesn't look like you could make the platform even if you loaded from the checkpoint.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* What happens in Frown Upside Down if you flip just before triggering the dialogue, so that you die after the game goes into dialogue mode? I'm just thinking about possible ways to break dialogue here, maybe it'll prove useful in a similar situation later.

I'll look into it.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

* On Don't Be Afraid, you can run straight across the first gap instead of flipping onto the ceiling. Not sure how much time it saves.

On this one, i think it is worth taking the slightly slower route because it is incredibly more consistent and easy to pull off (that guy can be real dumb sometimes).

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

A final thought. Have you figured out what order you're doing the levels in yet? There's no discussion of it in the thread so far but I would've thought it'd be a fairly complicated planning problem.

This here is surprisingly not important, as you can pretty much do any of the levels in any order, while always being brought back to the ship after every level. From what I can tell, there are only two things where the order you do the levels in can effect how fast the run goes.

The first is that at some point in the game, Violet will no longer give you a shiny trinket if you talk to her, and the second is that the dialogue for the intermissions changes based on which Crew member you were rescuing when the intermission started. For example if you save the green guy when you do the escort intermission, he will talk about how he has a crush on Violet, and ask the captain for relationship advice, and there is a fairly short forced wait between one of the dialogue boxes. But yeah, other than that, there is not really any reason why you should do one level instead of another. Though it may be a good idea to see if any of the intermissions have particularly short dialogue parts.

A real pity I didn't know about some of these speed strategies sooner, as it now looks like I may need to start my run over.

Also In my next segment, I plan on doing The Tower (mostly because I like what the red guy has to say when you do the gravitron), even though the whole level is an autoscroller, there are still a few places where you can save time with death-abuse. After doing some pretty thorough frame-by-frame analysis, I found that by getting killed right after hitting a checkpoint, you can force the camera to scroll extra fast in order to center itself on you when you respawn, saving between 15-21 frames, which equates to at least half a second. However, there are perhaps only three checkpoints where you could even pull this off, and the time saved is quite minimal. Food for thought.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
One thing you don't seem to have realised, given your post suggesting using quicksaves instead of autosaves, and the fact that you scroll to the 'save' option in the menu by pressing 'right' three times instead of pressing 'left' once, is that the timer keeps running in the menu. Quicksaving costs time, in other words.[/quote]

Incidentally, it only recently occurred to me that you could quicksave by pressing left once instead of right 3 times (durr).

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* The Yes Men can be done [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVo17_isRc]about a second faster[/url] with a really hard method.
* You would've saved about 3 seconds by leaving trench warfare after the dialogue and re-entering to reset the platform position, instead of waiting for it to return, and then using the (relatively easy) method from [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVo17_isRc]this video[/url].[/quote]

Thanks for pointing out that video, I should have searched more for fast time trial times, as they appear to have many strategies that could be useful. It may even be possible to use that Trench Warfare strategy without re-entering the screen.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* Did you try avoiding the checkpoint right before the trinket on Young Man, It's Worth The Challenge? I can't tell if it's possible at a glance, probably not.[/quote]

Unfortunately, you cant skip that checkpoint.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* You should've ended a segment when you hit the teleporter in Entanglement Generator. It costs you nothing to do so, and it would've let you perfectly optimise the next two rooms (where instead you lose a couple of seconds to execution mistakes).[/quote]

My initial justification was that I didn't want to overly segment things, trying to at least have ~1min per segment, but looking back on things, it just seems like I'm just shooting myself in the foot xD

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* Getting a successful run of 'the solution is dilution' is poor justification for letting the mistake on Gordian Knot slide given that you immediately lose exactly the same amount of time with your hesitation at the end of Lighter Than Air.[/quote]

I'm not sure what to say about this one. Because there have been multiple times where I have done everything perfect only to die on The Solution is Dilution' In fact, it seems to be that the only times where I have made it through has been when I have made some kind of mistake on Gordian Knot... But yeah, that segment can certainly use some work.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* I wonder if quicksaving and loading after hitting the first checkpoint in Just Pick Yourself Down would be faster than waiting for the platform to come back? Probably nothing in it.[/quote]

Doesn't look like you could make the platform even if you loaded from the checkpoint.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* What happens in Frown Upside Down if you flip just before triggering the dialogue, so that you die after the game goes into dialogue mode? I'm just thinking about possible ways to break dialogue here, maybe it'll prove useful in a similar situation later.[/quote]
I'll look into it.

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
* On Don't Be Afraid, you can run straight across the first gap instead of flipping onto the ceiling. Not sure how much time it saves.[/quote]

On this one, i think it is worth taking the slightly slower route because it is incredibly more consistent and easy to pull off (that guy can be real dumb sometimes).

[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
A final thought. Have you figured out what order you're doing the levels in yet? There's no discussion of it in the thread so far but I would've thought it'd be a fairly complicated planning problem.[/quote]

This here is surprisingly not important, as you can pretty much do any of the levels in any order, while always being brought back to the ship after every level. From what I can tell, there are only two things where the order you do the levels in can effect how fast the run goes.

The first is that at some point in the game, Violet will no longer give you a shiny trinket if you talk to her, and the second is that the dialogue for the intermissions changes based on which Crew member you were rescuing when the intermission started. For example if you save the green guy when you do the escort intermission, he will talk about how he has a crush on Violet, and ask the captain for relationship advice, and there is a fairly short forced wait between one of the dialogue boxes. But yeah, other than that, there is not really any reason why you should do one level instead of another. Though it may be a good idea to see if any of the intermissions have particularly short dialogue parts.

A real pity I didn't know about some of these speed strategies sooner, as it now looks like I may need to start my run over.

Also In my next segment, I plan on doing The Tower (mostly because I like what the red guy has to say when you do the gravitron), even though the whole level is an autoscroller, there are still a few places where you can save time with death-abuse. After doing some pretty thorough frame-by-frame analysis, I found that by getting killed right after hitting a checkpoint, you can force the camera to scroll extra fast in order to center itself on you when you respawn, saving between 15-21 frames, which equates to at least half a second. However, there are perhaps only three checkpoints where you could even pull this off, and the time saved is quite minimal. Food for thought.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-21 06:28:38 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-21 06:24:29 pm

2010-11-21 06:23:42 pm

Quote from Tranquilite:

This here is surprisingly not important, as you can pretty much do any of the levels in any order, while always being brought back to the ship after every level. From what I can tell, there are only two things where the order you do the levels in can effect how fast the run goes.

The first is that at some point in the game, Violet will no longer give you a shiny trinket if you talk to her, and the second is that the dialogue for the intermissions changes based on which Crew member you were rescuing when the intermission started.

You're neglecting to consider by far the biggest reason that the order matters, which is that you can teleport from the ship teleporter to any teleporters you've revealed. With a route designed to reveal teleporters outside as you go along, you will almost certainly be able to reach at least some of the levels faster than by just running all the way to them from the teleporter in the ship every time.

Quote:

even though the whole level is an autoscroller, there are still a few places where you can save time with death-abuse. After doing some pretty thorough frame-by-frame analysis, I found that by getting killed right after hitting a checkpoint, you can force the camera to scroll extra fast in order to center itself on you when you respawn, saving between 15-21 frames, which equates to at least half a second. However, there are perhaps only three checkpoints where you could even pull this off, and the time saved is quite minimal. Food for thought.

This is a nice find that hadn't occurred to me at all. Just a throwaway thought without looking at the level - quicksaving and loading may be faster in a handful of cases than dying.

Quote:

A real pity I didn't know about some of these speed strategies sooner, as it now looks like I may need to start my run over.

Always happy to cause frustration and heartbreak. Wink

More seriously, your execution is pretty darn good so I really want to see this run be well-planned and use every trick we can find - it'd be a waste and a pity to lose chunks of time to planning errors when the execution is so close to optimal.

[quote="Tranquilite"]This here is surprisingly not important, as you can pretty much do any of the levels in any order, while always being brought back to the ship after every level. From what I can tell, there are only two things where the order you do the levels in can effect how fast the run goes.

The first is that at some point in the game, Violet will no longer give you a shiny trinket if you talk to her, and the second is that the dialogue for the intermissions changes based on which Crew member you were rescuing when the intermission started.[/quote]

You're neglecting to consider by far the biggest reason that the order matters, which is that you can teleport from the ship teleporter to any teleporters you've revealed. With a route designed to reveal teleporters outside as you go along, you will almost certainly be able to reach at least some of the levels faster than by just running all the way to them from the teleporter in the ship every time.

[quote]even though the whole level is an autoscroller, there are still a few places where you can save time with death-abuse. After doing some pretty thorough frame-by-frame analysis, I found that by getting killed right after hitting a checkpoint, you can force the camera to scroll extra fast in order to center itself on you when you respawn, saving between 15-21 frames, which equates to at least half a second. However, there are perhaps only three checkpoints where you could even pull this off, and the time saved is quite minimal. Food for thought.[/quote]

This is a nice find that hadn't occurred to me at all. Just a throwaway thought without looking at the level - quicksaving and loading may be faster in a handful of cases than dying.

[quote]A real pity I didn't know about some of these speed strategies sooner, as it now looks like I may need to start my run over.[/quote]

Always happy to cause frustration and heartbreak. ;)

More seriously, your execution is pretty darn good so I really want to see this run be well-planned and use every trick we can find - it'd be a waste and a pity to lose chunks of time to planning errors when the execution is so close to optimal.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-21 06:38:58 pm

2010-11-21 06:38:18 pm

Actually, all of the teleporters on the world map are all ridiculously out of the way of just about everything. I've spent some time looking/running around the world map and am pretty sure that this is the case, but feel free to correct me if you find a way to make it so that going out of your way to activate a teleporter on the world map makes quicker over all to get to another level. I have a completely filled out world map with all of the shiny trinkets labeled attached to this post, if you want to have a look see for yourself.

Attachment:

VVVVVVsecretsmap.png

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-21 07:06:53 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-21 06:44:12 pm

2010-11-21 06:43:55 pm

Hmm. Looking at that map, you do seem to be right. I eat my words for now, though I will give the question some more thought.

Edit: I've stared at the map some more and yeah, I'm convinced you're right.

I did however discover something interesting from VVVVVV wiki. Apparently if you rescue Victoria last, you get the shiny trinket from Verdigris instead of her. Verdigris is closer to the teleporter in the ship than Victoria is, so you should probably do the Lab last.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-21 07:12:06 pm

2010-11-21 07:10:52 pm

I just did a quick frame by frame analysis, and it seems to take 40-someodd frames(@30fps, 1-1.5s) to die, respawn, and regain control. I also did some tests where I recorded myself quicksaving as fast as i could three times, and it took me 18/34/20 frames respectively to do a quicksave, which equates to 0.5-1s, so I guess you could say that it is always better to savewarp instead of deathwarp. Though this also is a very small amount of time saved/lost. However, one thing to take note of is that when loading from a save, the game is running even from when the sliding transition from black starts, so you have to perform blind/semiblind for the first 18 frames while it transitions from black.

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-21 07:15:30 pm

2010-11-21 07:14:58 pm

Quote from Tranquilite:

I just did a quick frame by frame analysis, and it seems to take 40-someodd frames(@30fps, 1-1.5s) to die, respawn, and regain control. I also did some tests where I recorded myself quicksaving as fast as i could three times, and it took me 18/34/20 frames respectively to do a quicksave, which equates to 0.5-1s, so I guess you could say that it is always better to savewarp instead of deathwarp.

Oh wow. It always felt to me like saving took longer, but I guess I misjudged it. This is pretty good news for you since it means you're going to be having much shorter segments which makes your life easier. In fact there'll probably be barely any challenging segments left any more.

FlamingMage

2010-11-21 09:18:29 pm

I like watching this run. Keep up the good work you two.

mobilisq

2010-11-21 09:49:01 pm

WHAT

looking forward to the gravitron

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-22 06:23:32 am

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-22 06:23:05 am

2010-11-22 06:22:04 am

BTW I used the Terminal on Doing Things The Hard Way to test what happens if you die during dialogue. Turns out the dialogue box disappears when you respawn, but you still need to press space to finish the dialogue in order to regain control. Useful if you were going to die anyway immediately afterwards (but I don't think this is ever the case); useless otherwise.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-22 03:11:04 pm

Tranquilite: 2010-11-22 03:07:54 pm

2010-11-22 02:41:10 pm

Another quick note, it seems that Vermilion is the best one to take with you through Intermission 1 because he seems to have the least dialogue. It does not matter who you take through intermission 2 though because their dialogue is all the same number of boxes.

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

I did however discover something interesting from VVVVVV wiki. Apparently if you rescue Victoria last, you get the shiny trinket from Verdigris instead of her. Verdigris is closer to the teleporter in the ship than Victoria is, so you should probably do the Lab last.

Actually, if you rescue Victoria last, you will have to beat the game first before being able to get back to the lab because after rescuing the last crew member, you are teleported to the final area instead of the ship.

EDIT: I'm not sure if that wiki is even right, because I made sure to rescue Victoria last, and Verdigris definitely did not give me the trinket, instead, I got it from Victoria, as usual. Very strange.

Tranquilite

Edit history:

Tranquilite: 2010-11-25 04:42:51 pm

2010-11-25 04:40:58 pm

Allright, so I started over again, and am pretty impressed with how well I've done. Up until the point where my route diverged from my previous route, i managed to save about 10 seconds already (in about 5 mins, 10s improvement is quite good). the most notable route changes are on The Yes Men and Trench Warfare.

Also, I decided to do The Tower before Space Station 2 because Vermilion seems to have less dialogue in intermission 1. You can see a demonstration of the save/death warping that can be done on The Tower.

Vid can be found at My Google Docs Or Youtube for those of you who prefer instant gratification over quality:

ExplodingCabbage

Edit history:

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-25 06:36:31 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-25 06:34:53 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-25 06:26:49 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-25 06:24:45 pm

ExplodingCabbage: 2010-11-25 06:03:08 pm

2010-11-25 06:02:35 pm

Hmm. There's a possible tweak to the route you take to go from the ship to the Tower that saves a third of a second, which probably isn't enough to be worth worrying about. See the attachment.

I'll keep looking for more stuff.

Edit: Sorry to say I've made another major new find that you'll probably want to restart over. If you hit Enter at the exact frame you touch a trinket, you can get into the menu and save before the 'Congratulations! You have found a shiny trinket!' message appears. This saves five sixths of a second each time.

I previously tried to do this for dialogue but didn't succeed. Perhaps I just didn't time it right though. I'll try again now. Also, weird shit (i.e. totally broken game) happens if you enter the menu after grabbing a trinket but before the popup appears, and then hit escape and return to the main menu without saving, and then reload a previous save (your save may have to place you in the same room as the trinket for things to properly fuck up). Try it with the first trinket and see for yourself.

Edit 2: Either I just really confused myself, or I got it to work for dialogue too. There isn't really any way to tell if you've succeeded when trying to skip dialogues this way, though, because unlike with picking up Shiny Trinkets, there's no sound effect, so the only way to confirm if the dialogue had been triggered before you went into the menu and saved is to load the save and try to trigger the dialogue again.

I'm just going to try it on another dialogue to double check that I didn't confuse myself by doing something retarded like saving after the dialogue had finished.

Edit 3: Whoa shit, I definitely wasn't confusing myself. Dialogue was very much broken. More detail including screenshot incoming.

Hmm. There's a possible tweak to the route you take to go from the ship to the Tower that saves a third of a second, which probably isn't enough to be worth worrying about. See the attachment.

I'll keep looking for more stuff.

Edit: Sorry to say I've made another major new find that you'll probably want to restart over. If you hit Enter at the exact frame you touch a trinket, you can get into the menu and save before the 'Congratulations! You have found a shiny trinket!' message appears. This saves five sixths of a second each time.

I previously tried to do this for dialogue but didn't succeed. Perhaps I just didn't time it right though. I'll try again now. Also, weird shit (i.e. totally broken game) happens if you enter the menu after grabbing a trinket but before the popup appears, and then hit escape and return to the main menu without saving, and then reload a previous save (your save may have to place you in the same room as the trinket for things to properly fuck up). Try it with the first trinket and see for yourself.

Edit 2: Either I just really confused myself, or I got it to work for dialogue too. There isn't really any way to tell if you've succeeded when trying to skip dialogues this way, though, because unlike with picking up Shiny Trinkets, there's no sound effect, so the only way to confirm if the dialogue had been triggered before you went into the menu and saved is to load the save and try to trigger the dialogue again.

I'm just going to try it on another dialogue to double check that I didn't confuse myself by doing something retarded like saving after the dialogue had finished.

Edit 3: Whoa shit, I definitely wasn't confusing myself. Dialogue was very much broken. More detail including screenshot incoming.

Attachment:

FasterTowerEntrance.mp4