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lanbobyonson: 2016-01-05 04:02:56 pm
lanbobyonson: 2016-01-05 04:02:29 pm
I figured just plugging myself here would be a good place to start, but I thought instead of just posting the link to my stream why not make a thread more useful to people in the same sort of situation as me. Smiley

I'm a very small stream I've been active regularly trying to stream daily for only a few months, been streaming for 2 years though, played all sorts of games Pokemon Sapphire, SM64, FFXV:ED, SSBM, SSBU, SMM, various PS4 games.

One thing I know for sure is I wanna stream speedruns of Pokemon Sapphire, but people are rarely looking to watch the game. So I rarely have anyone to stream for, which is a little bit of a bummer. I love running the game (though I've not yet finished a run) but I also want my stream to grow.

I know another good place to start is forums for specific speedrun communities (i.e. pokemonspeedruns) that are good to join up to find like-minded people who are interested in doing and watching pokemon speedruns. Community is really important. With that I figure time and consistency is the biggest component of growing a stream. especially around a certain game.

But is there any shortcuts? How can I get the general twitch viewers to find my stream if I'm playing a less heard of game? Should I play more popular games similar to it first? Should I play more popular games in general first? How in heck can I get a twitch partnership? lol

I mean I have a plan to do FFXV:ED speedruns closer to the release of FFXV for like a month then play FFXV when it's released then play that then maybe speedrun FFXV if it's a reasonable length and under 12 hours, cuz man that game is fun, but I really wonder how much that'll help. I'd keep playing Pokemon Sapphire on the side weekly. I was even debating submitting FFXV:ED and Pokemon Sapphire to SGDQ. It'd be worth it for the fun and exposure right (if my submission is even accepted)? Wink

What are some other ways or some tips on how to grow a smaller stream in general?
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Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2015-12-21 09:05:57 am
kirbymastah: 2015-12-21 08:56:37 am
First of all, writing a huge wall of text like this makes it near unreadable, and makes you look more desperate.

Second, speedrunning doesn't really garner the viewership that a lot of people think it does. If you're speedrunning for viewers and exposure, go do something else.

Third, people have a misconception that running a game at a GDQ gets you thousands of viewers. This is very very rarely the case, and most runners get less than a hundred viewers; there'll hardly be any boost at all in your general viewership. I really don't recommend speedrunning games for the sole purpose of GDQs, since that hardly is a representation of the work required behind real speedrunning, and is also naturally biased towards several kinds of speedgames due to the nature of live marathons.

My advice is to just not worry so much about gaining viewership. There have been a few streams that just look too desperate for viewers and makes people not want to watch them (example - ). Generally be yourself when you stream. Sticking to one game helps too, since it helps to build a core audience.

It's also good to watch other speedrunners (more known) that run your games. Ask questions, both about them and their game, let them get to know you more, and so on. It won't be immediate, but eventually these streamers will start supporting you as fellow speedrunners.

Also there isn't really a shortcut, which a lot of people think there is. Most popular streamers have streamed very regularly and put in a lot of work

Good luck!
First, all of what Kirby said.

Second, you have to realize that A) there are no shortcuts, and B) there's a stupid amount of luck in who gets to be partner and who doesn't. If there was a consistent method for success that worked for everybody, then... everybody would do it and it probably wouldn't work or be consistent anymore. Everybody's path is different, whether they get it by getting lucky on the games they run, by networking with others, by working constantly to build a viewerbase... and it takes literally all of these.

Third, you're saying you're doing Sapphire which is great. Fun game, people like Pokemon. But to say people aren't showing up when you haven't finished a run isn't really that big of a deal. And not finishing a run is fine, but usually, you need to be sitting down and figuring out where the run is dying and decide why that's happening. Maybe it's bad RNG. Maybe you made a poor decision at some point in the run. Honestly, consider just finishing a run with a death or two to have any pb - half the fun of running a new game is watching yourself get these big PBs where you shave off double digit minutes at a time. (for example, I just started running Yo-kai Watch and took the game down from 3:51 to 3:21 to 3:13 to 3:02. Each PB is super satisfying and it's exciting to bring it down further)

Fourth, you *do* realize that you aren't going to be the only one streaming FFXV? Yes, it will get a lot of viewership for somebody, but realistically, there's a good chance that they're not going to go to you immediately. And that's fine. If you enjoy streaming the game, keep doing so. Learn the speedrun if you have fun with it. But you can't pretend that it's going to be a catch-all and you're going to become Twitch famous because of it, and if you drop it for the next shiny thing or flavor of the month game, you're going to struggle to hold any kind of audience.

Consider why you want to speedrun. If you want to do it casually on the side, that's great. If you want to take it incredibly seriously, that's great too. But if your only excuse for speedrunning is to build some kind of a viewer base, you're probably not going to have as much fun with it, which people aren't going to stick around to watch and you're hurting your cause to begin with - at that point, you'd be better off being a variety streamer and leaving it at that.

So as far as actual advice for growing goes, are you on SpeedRunsLive? All it takes is an hour of racing and you'll show up on the front page - it's by far the best way to get some kind of exposure for running a game. Easily half of my viewers come from there (you can tell because they don't move with you when you host somebody, sadly). That's the biggest advice I can really give beyond doing what you can to network, meet and have fun with other streamers. The fun of streaming is not to stream for viewers, but as a way to connect with people, other streamers included. I've got friends from all over the world now, and yes, the networking will occasionally pay off with a host or a friendly plug (but that's not why you do it).

Hopefully this helps some and good luck!
check your pantry
Kirbymastah said it best, so there isn't much I can add.

Also, I recommend you read this pastebin:
Edit history:
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:35:04 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:33:21 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:30:16 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:24:36 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:22:44 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:20:32 am
GhostKingG1: 2015-12-23 01:09:42 am
Why Hello it is Me
I'm not much of a twitch streamer (though I'm working on actually getting to stream), but take it from someone who has both streamed in small doses before and has followed a ton of channels:

My number one piece of advice is that streaming should be to appreciate your viewers. I streamed a few times in the past doing silly runs of Pokemon games and typically would only get between 2-5 active viewers at any point, and most of that came from 4chan because I advertised the stream there. To have 5 people is utterly crazy. Imagine sitting in a room and you have 5 people watching you play on your TV. It's way easier to think only of the numbers as numbers, but it feels good to have the attention of even a few people and to have some fun with them. When I peaked at around 30 concurrent viewers it felt utterly insane. I know those numbers pale in comparison to the hundreds of concurrent viewers that some more popular streamers have...but again, imagine what it's like to have 30 people in one room focused primarily on you. Obviously not every viewer is always actively tuning in, but still your goal is to entertain like that and have some fun with them. If streaming isn't about having fun, it's probably not for you. And the most fun thing about streaming is your audience. Think in terms of a viewer, and build off of that. Be engaging, respond to people who comment and be friendly, without trying to be obsessive over them.

As for what to stream, stream games that you want, as long as you try to keep a generally consistent stream (don't be trying to do a million different things every new day). There are hundreds of people who stream really popular games that get no viewers, and then there are streamers who play niche that get plenty of viewers. It's about finding that sweet spot and being a presentable streamer. Now, more popular games have the potential to attract a bigger viewership, but nobody is going to follow and stick around unless the content is good. As a League of Legends Youtuber I follow once said, "I've come to realize that it's not what game that I play that gets people to continue to come watch, it's me as a content creator that people are sticking around for."

As for Twitch stuff: There aren't really a lot of shortcuts, at least ones that will last. Finding Twitch viewership is hard but it can be a lot about networking as Kirby and Ghoul said. Submitting stuff for the GDQs is awesome but cases that see significant spikes in follower figures are few and far between and rarely does a sustained growth in viewership occur. Running at a GDQ or any marathon should not be for the purpose of increasing viewership of your channel, but for showcasing a speedrun and helping a charity (along with hopefully having some fun with some likeminded nerds).

I don't know all the details about getting Twitch Partnership, but A: It generally involves a consistent, sizeable viewership and a submission to a Twitch admin, B: doesn't get you income higher than a bit of nice spending money until you actually get it pretty sizeable, and C: Should not be a main goal from the start. As Kirby said, speedrunning isn't as big as some people think. Setting lofty goals for yourself and being ambitious is okay, but your main goal should be to have an awesome stream regardless. Trust me, I will never follow or donate to a stream I don't want to watch, and what I want to see (and hopefully others as well) is a stream with a fun environment and a streamer who at least somewhat appears to be having fun with what he or she is doing. Once you see it grow and you want to grow more, then maybe think about submitting for a partnership. Some of it is just about getting lucky too, you shouldn't be expecting growth, you should work to grow as much as possible.

Lastly, aesthetics matter too, i.e. layout being visually appealing without being overbearing. You can have an extremely simple layout, it doesn't need to be covered with amazing overlays and icons and whatnot, just enough that it gets what you say and present across properly without being either gaudy or disorganized.

There are better guides out there for growing streams, but these are just some of my thoughts are on streaming. It's a lot about taking perspective, I feel.
Insanity Prelude
My 2 cents on this issue is basically what a lot of people have already said: Stream because you find it fun, not because of viewership. It is important to realize that people come to watch primarily because of *you*. Not because it is due to the hottest new release for a game or whatever. Sure, more popular games will likely get more viewers, but at the end of the day, the viewer base that stays with you, is the one that you want to grow for consistentcy.

A few other things have already been mentioned, so I'm just going to use examples to show the truth in those statements instead of just regurgitating the same stuff.

Sticking to one thing vs. spreading yourself out -
One of the dudes I got to get to know better from doing speedrunning was cha0s. cha0s and I got to know each other because we both primarily do runs from the Wild ARMS series. The difference? I started to spread out to other game series, still RPGs mind you, but not just limited to Wild ARMS. cha0s meanwhile has primarily been a Wild ARMS 1o runner for pretty much the entire time I've known him. If you compare our Followers, you'll see that our numbers are actually quit close despite the fact that I run 4-5 games more than him. It's easy for people to associate yourself with one thing versus if you do a lot of everything. And it gets worse if its all over the place since you don't exactly brand yourself that way either. As stealingbread's link put it, "jack of all trades, master of none"

Viewership from Marathons -
I've been to both C4L 2014 and RPGLB 2015. Even with the attendance at these events, my followers/viewership count hasn't been that notable. I got about 30 more followers each time but my core viewer base is still about the same. GDQ is bigger than both events, but the two marathons I listed haven't exactly been small things either.

Not finishing a run yet -
I do a lot of practice runs just to monitor my progress. It's also a way I hope to encourage people to run the games I do because you can see how badly I was when I first started the game. My average viewership when I do practice runs is about 2 people. On the other hand, when doing actual runs, I tend to have a few more.

As a general rule, stream because it is a hobby and not because it is a job. The moment you start treating it like a job, you'll have less fun, which will directly impact your stream negatively. Also, even if you want more viewers, don't come off as being desperate. This means, never whine about views during a stream, never continuously talk about views, don't put sub/follower alerts, etc. There are plenty of examples of this being very negative to your growth (look up Darksydephil if you want a good laugh). Even if you put in a lot of work into it, getting a stream to become bigger requires a lot of dedication and a little luck.
Totally Radical Awesome Game
get on srl
Edit history:
furrywulfz: 2015-12-29 05:07:21 am
furrywulfz: 2015-12-29 05:06:05 am
Best thing to do is just be yourself, and that sounds cheesy and dumb but what I mean is that no one wants to see yet another carbon copy imitating what they envision to be a successful streamer.

It doesn't matter if you're getting hundreds of viewers, or 10 viewers... as long as you're enjoying what you're doing. People that jump into it with the sole purpose of 'success', 'viewers' and 'money' may very well get there... but I will put money on the large majority of them not enjoying what they are doing deep down.
Edit history:
lanbobyonson: 2016-01-05 04:28:22 pm
I was actually a bit nervous to come back to this thread because I was a little embarassed of what I wrote but... damn. Reading all that you guys wrote I'm really touched. You're all so nice! Cheesy

I agree with everything you guys are saying and it's all very inspiring to me. I just watched a video of Harley Morenstein motivating people to do what they love and put in the work for what you love. The main thing he was saying is that you gotta do it cuz you love it and do it for fun which is the general consensus here as well. Which I always knew. I came across as only wanting to do it for the views in this post but even if I am desperate I always wanted to do this because I love doing it. Since the new year started I've been having a lot of fun streaming and not worrying about the views etc. as much. I think I did get into trouble for a bit there trying to do things I wasn't 100% all in for. Now I am doing it because I love it. Smiley And you know whatever happens I'll keep doing it because I love it. If I go to AGDQ or SGDQ it will be because I want to go for the fun and the experience even if I do also want to gain more exposure I won't be mad if I don't get it.

I'll try not to come off as desperate though I might be a litte because of my personal situation, which is basically if I'm not successful this year I'll have to go to college and have less time for streaming. But I won't worry about that. I'll be fine either way.

I'll forge my own path as it were. And I won't worry about my crackpot ideas failing. I'll stream stuff because I enjoy it and because it's fun. Tongue

I'll read that pastebin for sure, bread.

I'll make sure to appreciate my viewers. I already do. Everytime I get a viewer rn I have to smile cuz I really do appreciate them. And I definitely want my stream to look good.

I'll work on finishing that run and from now on I'll stream what i love and be myself for sure. Smiley

I'm gonna get on SRL more and get on here more maybe. I'll keep streaming whatever I want to and games that I love not worrying about forcing myself to play the more popular games. I'll take all this advice to heart and maybe even come back here to read it when I'm not feeling motivated. Thanks everyone. Cheesy
Quote from lanbobyonson:
What are some other ways or some tips on how to grow a smaller stream in general?

I glanced at the wall of text and saw various games. Don't spread yourself thin, focus on one or two games. Stream for hours on end, each day that you can, and get gud. Don't worry about your stream getting big and just play the game.
Arkham speed runner.
Quote from CavemanDCJ:
get on srl

I'd say that this used to help a lot but now not so much, not when you can get on SRL's page in about an hour instead of 30+ races over 20 minutes long each.
Quote from Diablohead:
Quote from CavemanDCJ:
get on srl

I'd say that this used to help a lot but now not so much, not when you can get on SRL's page in about an hour instead of 30+ races over 20 minutes long each.

Agreed. Having said that, racing constantly still brings in viewers if you care about that