Theif 3 Speed Run - quick question

2005-07-14 05:34:33 am

I'm going to try and speed run this (I was gonna do Tomb Raider 2, but since I cannot use Fraps, I'm lost on how to record it). If I used different textures, is that going to make the run unacceptable? Specifically John P's (if anyone has played the game, you'd know that there is no reason not to use them).

Basically, it just makes certain textures higher-res. It doesn't change anything about the game, except for the look.

http://www.john-p.com/textures/Thief-DS/Comparison.html

Honestly, I have never played the game without these. Since day one, he started working on these textures and has been updating them since (well, he stopped about a year ago).

Thread title:

Psychochild

2005-07-14 02:50:48 pm

I need to get ahold of the third Thief entry... as well as repurchase the first two for the third time....

Hmmm.

Anyways, I don't see why not. It's a non-benefitial mod that just makes it easier for the viewers to watch (Although I wouldn't say no to watching Thief 1 or 2 in their original glory.) Console runs can use non-beneficial cheats, I.E. the Suitless Samus from Metroid 1, and Half-Life has also had a graphic pack (Although it was released with an official expansion pack) too.

So, in the mean time, if your computer can handle it, and it doesn't impair your own ability to play, I'd say continue using it. If Radix rules against it, there's really no foul, as you can uninstall the graphics pack when you start recording.

.

dirtyminuth

2005-07-14 07:02:02 pm

Reserved Postulator

Those updated, high-res textures look great. I think this will have to be reviewed, though, because there are cases where use of different textures significantly affects gameplay. For example, a mod for HL2 features a team of soldiers versus a single Predator-like creature. This creature is nearly invisible, with only a heat-distortion-like appearance. Some people decided to change this invisible texture to a pink/black checkered pattern (i.e. a default "file-not-found" texture). Thus the creature was pretty easy to see (and an eyesore). Now, this T3 mod doesn't look like it has anything like that, but I'm putting this out for the sake of open information.

Also, if you can't record TR2 with FRAPS, what makes you think you can record T3 successfully?

-dirtyminuth

ertertwert

2005-07-15 01:17:37 am

I understand that certain textures could be used as a cheat in some games, but these textures try to remain as close to the original, while making them more pretty and higher-res. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't be allowed, but I'm just covering all my bases.

Anyway, I am going for a pure speedrun of the game (i.e. not 100% loot or no alerts), and for that reason, I believe I am going to play it on Easy. This is because, on higher difficulties, you must collect more loot to be able to finish a mission. Easy is 30%, Normal is 40%, and I forget the amount , but it goes up to 90% on Expert.

I did a test run through the first level and (editing out the loading screens), I got a time of 3:32. It is definitely possible to get well under 3 minutes with my new route I tried after I got home from work tonight.

ertertwert

2005-07-15 01:19:55 am

Quote:

Those updated, high-res textures look great. I think this will have to be reviewed, though, because there are cases where use of different textures significantly affects gameplay. For example, a mod for HL2 features a team of soldiers versus a single Predator-like creature. This creature is nearly invisible, with only a heat-distortion-like appearance. Some people decided to change this invisible texture to a pink/black checkered pattern (i.e. a default "file-not-found" texture). Thus the creature was pretty easy to see (and an eyesore). Now, this T3 mod doesn't look like it has anything like that, but I'm putting this out for the sake of open information.

Also, if you can't record TR2 with FRAPS, what makes you think you can record T3 successfully?

-dirtyminuth

I can't record TR2 with fraps because there is a bug. It will only record at 1 frame per second. I don't know why. I can record Thief 3 just like HL2 or any other game I have tried.

dirtyminuth

Edit history:

dirtyminuth: 2005-07-15 02:09:11 am

2005-07-15 02:08:55 am

Reserved Postulator

Strange thing about the TR2 recording bug. I was assuming that you couldn't record because of PC performance, but that doesn't sound like the case.

I am looking forward to your run - T3 was a good game. It's a shame it was co-developed for XBox, though (smaller levels).

-dirtyminuth

ertertwert

2005-07-15 02:11:18 am

My biggest gripe with T3 (and DX2) is the engine - it's horribly glitchy and buggy.

ertertwert

Edit history:

ertertwert: 2005-07-15 12:45:48 pm

2005-07-15 12:07:29 pm

Agh - I just cut off more than a minute to my previous time, but for some odd reason THE SOUND DIDN'T RECORD! Oh wel, it's not that hard to re-do. Here's a screenshot of my new time on the first level.

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/7687/t3main20050715035016754fx.jpg

Keep in mind, it only record whole-minutes - so that means less than 2 but more than 1 and anywhere in between there (not sure the exact time, since I have to re-do it anyway).

EDIT: Well, it seems that the in-game time is horribly innacurate. My final time for the first mission is 2:17.

Zurreco

2005-07-15 06:21:15 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

Are you going to stick to Easy difficulty? :-/

It's one thing to be fast. It's another thing to be fast while dodging/evading/completing objectives.

ertertwert

Edit history:

ertertwert: 2005-07-15 09:02:29 pm

2005-07-15 09:01:41 pm

Eventually, I plan to do another speed run on a higher difficulty, but for a "pure speed" Easy would be the best choice due to the reason I already listed.

xeen

Edit history:

xeen: 2005-07-16 07:28:35 pm

2005-07-16 07:26:42 pm

Don't mind about the textures. The rules say "If a code is only cosmetic, like suitless Samus in NES Metroid, it'll be fine."

Replacing the skin isn't actualy a code, but it doesn't affect the game at all. Since T3 isn't multiplayer and the textures only replaces the protagonist which is only for the player there's no difference at all. The AI doesn't react on textures and those textures don';t make the char invisible allowing the player to have more free view.

I don't guess that's a problem.

However, all other textures (effects, floors, faces etc.) shouldn't be changed. All other textures that do not affect the gameplay like the book background texture are fine. But backgrounds etc: Better keep the original, though it wouldn't be that important.

ertertwert

2005-07-16 07:28:49 pm

Well, it also replaces some wall texture by making them higher res and increasing the detail in the normal maps.

xeen

2005-07-17 11:26:00 am

right I renember. I'd rather use the new textures since it doesn't really affect the gameplay (the enemies weren't that hrad to see anyway) but I don't know whether it still'll be accepted. You should ask Radix before doing the run.

ertertwert

Edit history:

ertertwert: 2005-07-18 06:13:30 am

2005-07-17 11:49:31 pm

I've got the Tutorial level (can't be skipped) and the first mission done. I could easily replicate them though (it's not as user-challenging as, say, doing HL while bunnyhopping everywhere). I'll upload the first two videos for you to see. I'm guessing people won't even notice the different textures in the video, anyway...

EDIT: I'm gonna make a new topic to follow the progress through the game (since I started this one as a guest and cannot modify).

xeen

Edit history:

xeen: 2005-07-18 08:02:54 am

2005-07-18 07:48:11 am

looking forward to see this run, but you should not start a new thread. Everyone who's interested will look for new post in this htread, there's no need to change the title all the time.

Just saw the first two segements. They're nice but I hoped they were in 3rd person since the 1st person in this game makes me so sick due it's steady going up and down ... meh. Can't watch that for too long.

ertertwert

2005-07-18 08:34:47 am

Hmm, I should take a vote on 3rd vs 1st person... Or maybe do both Shocked

Baddas

2005-11-09 10:31:47 am

I kill a communist for fun...

I go for 3rd person. You can see around corners a ton better, it helps you judge distances, and when you get stuck on top of something because of the game engine you can tell what's doing it. DOWNSIDE: its more graphically demanding, and slows down your frame rate.