The SDAppend Project

2011-04-26 02:23:56 pm

Exoray

You'll most likely run into too much work trying to get the permission of each runner to both mess with their video files and host them elsewhere. You're probably better off just doing these merges for your own personal use so that you can play them in your odd choice of player.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 02:32:40 pm

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 02:31:57 pm

2011-04-26 02:28:39 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Crap. Hadn't even thought of permission. I mean the point was not to go back through the entire SDA library but to pick and choose which ones to work on next, so permission does not have to be thought of as "all or nothing," but that's still going to render certain runs untouchable if the runner cannot be contacted (because I respect the desires of the runners).

Ugh. All the more reason I wish SDA would either do it automatically or would require the runners who encode themselves and don't opt out to do it.

ZenicReverie

2011-04-26 02:37:17 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

I like to see breaks between segments, and upon first viewing the half-hour Half-Life video, I thought it was SS. While it might be jarring to have a half second break between each segment, or portions of all the loading and saving, it also makes it truer to how it was made.

IL tables should remain separate. One might be interested in just one level, and it becomes a pain to download/load an entire video and try to find that particular portion. In fact I find the lack of IL videos for Marble Blast Gold in particular to impair my enjoyment of the runs.

It's nice to have options, but I can see that one reason for SDA not to do this would be storage space.

It's easy enough to download each video and then combine these into one for your own personal use though. A zip download or a handy button that would download all the videos in a directory would be welcomed though.

Flip

2011-04-26 02:51:23 pm

1-Up!

Yeah I mentioned the need for permission up above, maybe you didn't see it.

With that in mind it's looking more and more like perhaps the best option would be to simply do it yourself. Sounds like Exo is knowledgeable enough to provide a program / otherwise explain how to merge videos in a simple way. That way anybody with a similar desire can do it themselves also.

This doesn't solve the problem of having to download 100 individual segments but tbh it would probably take me <5 minutes to queue up all of the SFA segments and that pales compared to how long it would take them all to download anyway.

InsipidMuckyWater

2011-04-26 02:53:31 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

The looking-like an SS is a ... strange reason to me to be against this, but I'm fine with being the minority on that.

As for IL tables: I never wanted appending for IL's. They could be different runners, etc., so I agree that doesn't make sense. Wasn't in the game plan.

As for storage space: if this is in fact an issue, I agree completely, which is why I personally would prefer single video as the only option instead of having one or the other in an ideal world. But, that's the ideal world, where we don't live.

Flip: Yeah, sorry didn't see it if you mentioned it. And yes, it looks like I'm alone on the torrent idea (practically speaking), so probably just going to drop this. I've already tried some of those programs ... with varying degrees of success. If anybody finds one that works really well on SDA videos (two I've encountered seem to have problems with h.264), post in here I guess.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2011-04-26 02:57:26 pm

2011-04-26 02:56:30 pm

Sandbagging

@InsipidMuckyWater: Man you need a smaller nickname.. I'll just refer to you as IMW from now on >.>
Anyways you can also use virtualdub to merge avi files using any lossless videocodec of your choice.
I could write an easy to undestand guide that would only be like 5 steps.
(If the whole merging videos thing does become part of submitting runs that is)

P.S.: As I was already saying.. the page you are on when downloading a speedrun clearly states it's segmented.
This whole argument about thinking it would be a single segment run is just utter bullshit.

InsipidMuckyWater

2011-04-26 02:58:14 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Doesn't look like it will, so that'd probably just be for tech tards like myself.

But since our videos are h.264 mp4's, I can't use virtualdub unless I convert. While I have plenty of converters, that's a ton more work involved. So what about mp4?

Yeah, I can't say that argument makes much sense to me either, but oh well.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2011-04-26 03:02:53 pm

Exo: 2011-04-26 03:02:16 pm

2011-04-26 03:01:48 pm

Sandbagging

Here is a pretty good program for joining mp4 files :

http://yamb.unite-video.com/download.html

I don't think you'll even need a tutorial for this program as it's pretty much designed for anybody.
It should support joining h264 files without a problem.

InsipidMuckyWater

2011-04-26 03:18:15 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Actually I tried that: It said I didn't have MP4box so I couldn't do it. So I guess I'll download that and it should work?

Exo

2011-04-26 03:22:43 pm

Sandbagging

MP4box is included in the setup exe file.

Here is a direct link Smiley

: http://yamb.unite-video.com/Yamb-2.1.0.0_beta2_setup.exe

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 03:36:36 pm

2011-04-26 03:34:40 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Exo, thank you so much for being so patient with me. That redownload seemed to do the trick, but now I'm getting a 1:03 segment (I was trying to combine all of the Grappling Hook NQ segments) that is basically just the first segment (which is only 49 seconds long ... the rest of the video is corrupt and just immediately sends you back to the beginning). Also, there is no search function.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2011-04-26 03:51:54 pm

Exo: 2011-04-26 03:45:36 pm

2011-04-26 03:38:41 pm

Sandbagging

Hold on. I'm gonna download the grappling hook segments and see what I can do.

-edit-

Turns out that they do get merged into one single file.
Its a different way of merging though.
Each video gets their own video/audio-track which you need to choose manually ^^
I'll go look for another solution then Tongue

-big edit-

Here is an alternative solution which doesnt require switching video/audio tracks :

1.) Go to http://avidemux.org/ and download avidemux.

2.) Open the first file. If you get a warning about b-frames say yes to using that mode.

3.) Go to File->append->open the second file

3) Set the video + audio sidebar to "copy" and the format to "mp4"

4) Go to File-> save video.

P.S.: Make sure to include an extension to your filename when you save it e.g. "bla.mp4".

P.P.S.: This is just temporary. I'm sure there's a more user-friendly way out there. I'll see what i can come up with.

InsipidMuckyWater

2011-04-26 03:47:56 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Muchos gracias!!!

InsipidMuckyWater

2011-04-26 03:57:07 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Lol, you're practically writing that there guide as we speak. Thanks so much.

I actually had already tried avidemux but like an idiot I kept the format on AVI which produced very strange results. *I swear, sometimes you have to hit me over the head* But trying it your way and ... IT WORKED holy crap. Yeah, it's kind of a nuisance to manually append each segment, but until we find something better this is majorly easier than doing it through Sony Vegas. You rock.

Exo

Edit history:

Exo: 2011-04-26 04:35:52 pm

2011-04-26 04:33:08 pm

Sandbagging

Atleast you don't have to save in between each appending Tongue

P.S.: The CTRL-ALT-A shortcut will make your life alot easier Smiley

ZenicReverie

2011-04-26 06:24:14 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from Exo:

P.S.: As I was already saying.. the page you are on when downloading a speedrun clearly states it's segmented.
This whole argument about thinking it would be a single segment run is just utter bullshit.

Reasons it is not bullshit:
1) Not knowing what segmented means.
2) Viewing the video in a place that doesn't mention it being segmented.
3) Glossing over the text to watch the video straight away. (Nobody reads all the description text all the time; e.g. YouTube.)

Quote from InsipidMuckyWater:

The looking-like an SS is a ... strange reason to me to be against this, but I'm fine with being the minority on that.

My only concern is when there's no visual cue that a segment transition occurred. If there's a few frames of Saving and then a few that say Loading, I don't see that as a huge upset. It's not always obvious if a run is segmented if you're cutting all loading and saving frames.

I don't see you convincing me or I you, so seems the thread is done, just wanted to give these points.

[quote="Exo"]P.S.: As I was already saying.. the page you are on when downloading a speedrun clearly states it's segmented.
This whole argument about thinking it would be a single segment run is just utter bullshit.[/quote]
Reasons it is not bullshit:
1) Not knowing what segmented means.
2) Viewing the video in a place that doesn't mention it being segmented.
3) Glossing over the text to watch the video straight away. (Nobody reads all the description text all the time; e.g. YouTube.)

[quote="InsipidMuckyWater"]The looking-like an SS is a ... strange reason to me to be against this, but I'm fine with being the minority on that.[/quote]
My only concern is when there's no visual cue that a segment transition occurred. If there's a few frames of Saving and then a few that say Loading, I don't see that as a huge upset. It's not always obvious if a run is segmented if you're cutting all loading and saving frames.

I don't see you convincing me or I you, so seems the thread is done, just wanted to give these points.

Kiyura

2011-04-26 06:43:32 pm

Wiiaboo

I just want to chime in and say I very much agree that merged segmented runs should not have an official place, ever. Being familiar with all the aspects of speedrunning makes it hard to imagine just how little the average gamer knows about it and how easily misconceptions can grow.

That said, I would personally love to have merged videos available somewhere in this community, because that's how I would prefer to watch segmented runs. I'm in support of this project and would be glad to help seed torrents and whatnot.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 07:10:42 pm

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 07:09:47 pm

2011-04-26 07:08:57 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

If you would have asked me to spout out reasons for why people would be against official automatic appending by SDA, I don't think I would have ever come up with "because it makes them look like single segments to casual viewers" as being a serious contender ... ever. Hmph. I guess I stand corrected. Lol. What people on Youtube may think (etc.) is just absolutely not a concern of mine (even as a speedrunner and member of SDA), as long as the site is not actually posting incorrect information that could make us look bad, but we'll just agree to disagree I suppose. Smiley

As for torrenting ... ugh. I'm really discouraged by the need for permission. I've already done a few appends, thanks to Exo, but I would already have to track down six people for permission to just host torrents. I wish SDA would say to runners, "Congratulations! Your run has been verified! Oh, and by the way, would you mind if we permit the SDA community to host copies of the run that have all the segments appended?" Obviously that would never happen, but it'd be so much easier to get this out of the way as the run comes in instead of after the fact.

If you would have asked me to spout out reasons for why people would be against official automatic appending by SDA, I don't think I would have ever come up with "because it makes them look like single segments to casual viewers" as being a serious contender ... ever.  Hmph.  I guess I stand corrected.  Lol.  What people on Youtube may think (etc.) is just [i]absolutely[/i] not a concern of mine (even as a speedrunner and member of SDA), as long as the site is not actually posting incorrect information that could make us look bad, but we'll just agree to disagree I suppose.   :)

As for torrenting ... ugh.  I'm really discouraged by the need for permission.  I've already done a few appends, thanks to Exo, but I would already have to track down six people for permission to just host torrents.  I wish SDA would say to runners, "Congratulations!  Your run has been verified!  Oh, and by the way, would you mind if we permit the SDA community to host copies of the run that have all the segments appended?"  Obviously that would never happen, but it'd be so much easier to get this out of the way as the run comes in instead of after the fact.

CrypticJacknife

2011-04-26 08:48:27 pm

Ganondorf = Donkey Kong LOOK IT UP!!

I don't think it needs to be taken as far as to have SDA present the appended runs, regardless of whether it is SDA or an individual user hosting the torrent. If it needs to be done for anything, it would probably fit better with THE RUNNER'S youtube account, marked accordingly with a "[Segmented]" tag in the title and marked at the top of a description with a "NOTE: BLAH BLAH BLAH THIS IS SEGMENTED NOT SS" or whatever the person wants to put there for themselves.

Of course this would come down to the runner's preferences and opinions on how segment-heavy their run actually is (e.g a 7 segment run doesn't need an append, but things such as that Starfox Adventures run would probably attain more attention if there wasn't so many seperate videos for it).

If it's a run with very little indication of segmenting when cut as Zenic says it would probably be wise to have a 2-3 second "[SEGMENT XX/XX]" appear on the screen, whether in annotations or straight-up edited right into the video. Another good way to do it would be like what Miles did with his MP2 any% test run, upload the segments seperately, and then decide whether you want to merge it all and put it up in a single video, but of course the segments themselves should stay ready to view for those who aren't as savvy with the running of that particular game.

In the end it'd always be a nice prospect to see more segment-heavy runs done in a single file, but considering SDA wants to make the specific details of creation more obvious, it should be THAT RUNNER uploading/hosting the appended video themselves, whether on their YouTube, as a torrent or on a file-hosting website. Thus meaning it should be the runner's choice if they want to append it themselves to make it that bit more watchable. As for others appending others runs and hosting or uploading it themselves, that shouldn't be done unless the runner has no way of uploading it themselves AND they give their permission for it.

That seems like a nice middle-point for this argument don't you think? Smiley

I don't think it needs to be taken as far as to have SDA present the appended runs, regardless of whether it is SDA or an individual user hosting the torrent. If it needs to be done for anything, it would probably fit better with THE RUNNER'S youtube account, marked accordingly with a "[Segmented]" tag in the title and marked at the top of a description with a "NOTE: BLAH BLAH BLAH THIS IS SEGMENTED NOT SS" or whatever the person wants to put there for themselves.

Of course this would come down to the runner's preferences and opinions on how segment-heavy their run actually is (e.g a 7 segment run doesn't need an append, but things such as that Starfox Adventures run would probably attain more attention if there wasn't so many seperate videos for it).

If it's a run with very little indication of segmenting when cut as Zenic says it would probably be wise to have a 2-3 second "[SEGMENT XX/XX]" appear on the screen, whether in annotations or straight-up edited right into the video. Another good way to do it would be like what Miles did with his MP2 any% test run, upload the segments seperately, and then decide whether you want to merge it all and put it up in a single video, but of course the segments themselves should stay ready to view for those who aren't as savvy with the running of that particular game.

In the end it'd always be a nice prospect to see more segment-heavy runs done in a single file, but considering SDA wants to make the specific details of creation more obvious, it should be THAT RUNNER uploading/hosting the appended video themselves, whether on their YouTube, as a torrent or on a file-hosting website. Thus meaning it should be the runner's choice if they want to append it themselves to make it that bit more watchable. As for others appending others runs and hosting or uploading it themselves, that shouldn't be done unless the runner has no way of uploading it themselves AND they give their permission for it.

That seems like a nice middle-point for this argument don't you think? :)

gia

2011-04-26 10:31:36 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Is it possible to use javascript to trigger the download of all segments/ILs within a quality setting? I do not recall, that way you could have a "queue all" link which you click and automatically does the manual clicks for you.

Exo

2011-04-27 03:16:52 am

Sandbagging

Quote from gia:

Is it possible to use javascript to trigger the download of all segments/ILs within a quality setting? I do not recall, that way you could have a "queue all" link which you click and automatically does the manual clicks for you.

DLC-Containers anyone ?

nate

2011-04-27 10:58:52 am

on a download page, paste one of these into your location bar/url box to queue all files for download:

normal quality:

Code:

javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*[^Q]_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();

high quality:

Code:

javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_HQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();

low quality:

Code:

javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_LQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();

insane quality:

Code:

javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_IQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();

x-treme quality:

Code:

javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_XQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();

you can change dl.speeddemosarchive.com to www.archive.org to use archive instead of dl (if those links are available).

on a download page, paste one of these into your location bar/url box to queue all files for download:

normal quality:
[code]javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*[^Q]_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();[/code]

high quality:
[code]javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_HQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();[/code]

low quality:
[code]javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_LQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();[/code]

insane quality:
[code]javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_IQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();[/code]

x-treme quality:
[code]javascript:(function(){var formats = document.getElementsByTagName("a");for (var i = 0; i < formats.length; i++) {if (/dl.speeddemosarchive.com\/.*_XQ_part\d+\./.test(formats[i].href)) {window.open(formats[i].href, '_blank');}}})();[/code]

you can change dl.speeddemosarchive.com to www.archive.org to use archive instead of dl (if those links are available).

Exo

2011-04-27 11:02:51 am

Sandbagging

Would be great if it could be added to the general download page layout.

nate

2011-04-27 11:03:18 am

do you really think that's appropriate to add? lol ...

Exo

2011-04-27 11:08:20 am

Sandbagging

Downloading a run of 50 segments can be a huge pain in the arse. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that way ^^
A "Download All" button that executes the above mentioned javascript would be much appreciated.