Username:
B
I
U
S
"
url
img
#
code
sup
sub
font
size
color
smiley
embarassed
thumbsup
happy
Huh?
Angry
Roll Eyes
Undecided
Lips Sealed
Kiss
Cry
Grin
Wink
Tongue
Shocked
Cheesy
Smiley
Sad
1234567 ->
--
--
List results:
Search options:
Use \ before commas in usernames
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Okay, I have a question for the general SDA public.  Would you be interested in downloading versions of segmented speedruns that were presented in single, uninterrupted videos?  That is to say, would you like to have a single file on your computer for each individual speedrun?  It is certainly possible that I am the only lunatic interested in such a thing.  So, I wanted to ask if there was any interest in this before we got our hands dirty.

I really don't see the point in having multiple files for each run.  It's not a huge problem, but it makes playlisting runs a bit of a chore (Especially randomized playlisting), and it results in the presence of a heckuva lot more folders on my computer than is really necessary.  I'd prefer to have all of my "Zelda runs" shown in one folder without subfolders for each multi-segment run, for instance.  Plus, my Xbox 360, unlike my PS3, is unable to play an entire playlist with the push of one button.  So, I have to move to the next video, hit play, and so on for as many segments as there are in a given speedrun.  Finally, it's annoying to watch the SDA statid beyond at the beginning and end of the run.  I understand why it's necessary, but we don't bother with these reminders when we don't break up the video into multiple parts, such as in a single segment run, so I would personally prefer that each run was distributed as a single segment would be, thus eliminating the extra statids.
 
Again, even with all of these considerations, this does not sound like a huge problem for most people.  So let me know what you think.  Here's probably the worst offender (that I know of) on SDA that would most benefit from an append: Star Fox Adventures.  100 segments, very many of which are less than 2 minutes long, and some less than 1 minute long.  And don't even get me started on the statids (the run was released before we got rid of the ending-statid for each segment). 

Secondly, if you would be interested in a community-driven effort to provide appended versions of many SDA runs, would you be willing to contribute?

Thirdly, if any of the above applies to you, do you know of programs that would be best suited for this?  I already tried my tech-tarded hand at some Avisynth/VirtualDubMod/YAMB magic, and failed pretty early in the process.  I just used Sony Vegas to join all of the Grappling Hook (NQ) segments together, just as a test.  It seemed to do the job nicely enough, but are there better programs or ones which do not tax a computer as much?  Any knowledge you can contribute would be welcome.

My idea was this:  Whenever a member comes up with an appended version of a run, they create a torrent for it and host it for a few days, or on various weekends, or whatever.  This first post would be stickied and would contain links to each post below that hosts a torrent.  The link would state the name of the run, including the quality selected, and whether the torrent was still active or not (members should state when they are taking down a torrent, if they intend to do so).  There would obviously be trouble in providing torrents for those who would like to download an append after the torrent was removed.  However, besides certain people (such as others who downloaded the torrent before it was removed) putting up a new torrent when such is requested, maybe the first post could also list each request for a torrent that has been requested post-deadline.  I don't know.

This post is not an announcement of an intention to actually begin doing all this.  I just want to gauge interest, first and foremost.  Plus, I figure it's a good way to nudge the SDA staff to either encode everything appended up front or to require that people doing their own encodes append everything they send, or both.

With the best of intentions, -imw
Thread title:  
It does not bother me either way, but I do see the benefit of having it as a single file as well as multiple videos.  If possible, why not have both options available?  If given the choice, I'd probably go for the single file so all i need to do download one file (unless the run was torrented).

SFA is a good example where this would be nice because the shorter segments are only like 2 seconds of game play (abusing Save Warps).  Some games are like that already... I believe Diablo II is multi-segmented but only one video file.
Edit history:
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:05:33 pm
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:03:55 pm
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:03:54 pm
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Yes, I like that idea as well (having both), but I suggested this before and the staff rejected the idea.  I can't say I really blame them (redundancy and inefficiency), but to me the solution is to get rid of the multiple video option.

See, the funny thing is I can't think of a single argument for breaking up runs into multiple videos that could not be equally applied to an argument in favor of getting rid of single segment runs in favor or multiple segment ones, which would be a patently absurd result to anyone, I think. 

"Well, it's too much to download at once."  This is perhaps a fairly strong argument for the status quo.  But again, it still doesn't account for the fact that we don't go out of our way to break up long single segment efforts just for the sake of easier downloads.  To me, getting a download manager that resumes downloads in case of necessary interruptions is the easiest way to deal with this problem while keeping all runs as single videos.  PLUS, I find it MORE difficult to download a run with 86 segments just because of the multiple downloads I have to initiate/because of having to use a download manager to watch a single speedrun.

"Watch as you download."  Again, single segment vs. multi segment problem.  And besides, there's always the flash video option.

"It's more convenient to watch particular segments, and it's easier to take breaks when viewing multiple videos because you can just stop watching and come back to the next segment when you're ready to resume."  This one makes very little sense to me.  Again, it's like saying multiple segment runs are better than single segment runs.  And as for the second part, just this morning I forgot which segment I last watched of Grappling Hook, which is a pretty short multi-segment run.  So, say I wrote down which segment I last watched.  How is this any harder than writing down "7min 30 sec" in order to resume a continuous video?

"It could crash a computer to append many videos at once."  This is probably the best argument in favor of the status quo, but to me this seems more like cause for an exception.  "If it crashes your computer or very likely might, SDA will handle it for you."

As an added bonus, having one single video for each run would get rid of the so-far unsolvable problem of freezes between segments when viewing through the flash player.

As an additional added bonus, each download page would only have to feature three or four links instead of the eleventy-bajillion that many segments across multiple qualities creates.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
I select all the files press enter and my player adds them ordered into a playlist. So my only gripe is having to download them one by one, having them as a single zip file or something could help.
SEGA Junkie
How about the "it looks like a single-segment run but it's not" argument? Some runs on SDA are appended and they have run into this problem. I know it says it's segmented and appended to one file, but still.
Edit history:
Exo: 2011-04-26 01:14:28 pm
Exo: 2011-04-26 01:13:41 pm
Exo: 2011-04-26 01:13:34 pm
Exo: 2011-04-26 01:12:44 pm
Sandbagging
I'm not a big fan of the way segmented runs are handled either.
Downloading runs with lots of segments can be a real chore (especially because the download page has a mirror-host as well so youre f*cked even if you use a link-grabber)

An option to download an avi-merge of all segments would be much appreciated on my end and I'll make sure to provide one for my segmented run even if it has to be on another host.

@mike89: The run would still be available as individual segments. Users who want can download a merged file. (That's atleast how I would handle it.)
Edit history:
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:17:36 pm
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:17:12 pm
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Merge file?  If that is what it SOUNDS like I would be totally in favor of that.

Mike89:  Fair enough, I hadn't considered that.  But because this is more of an information issue and not a viewing issue, it seems extreme to support breaking up the video to help inform the viewer, for it.
I survived MIKE-Fest 1
The mike89 argument is really strong IMO

when I show people runs like the Half Life run and explane that its done in 180 segments it's like " oh the just cut all videos together and thats how speedruns are done? "
Next 10 mins I explane the different in SS and Segmented and so on . remember not all are familiar with the speedrun terms
Sandbagging
I think mike's argument isn't very strong.
The run is being hosted on this page ergo the people read that its a SEGMENTED run before even clicking on the download page link.
They see the option to either download all ~50 or so segments individually or a merged segments file.
If they interpret it as a non-segmented run at that point they're just stupid.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
I see.  That's not a problem I encountered, so I'm glad you two have raised it.

Exo: That's a BIT harsh, but I tend to agree with your view (it's on the viewer to become informed; we can't inform everybody of everything)

That being said, to those whom it bothers, would you prefer if people opted out of it?  That is, everything automatically gets appended, but those who worry about the misinterpretations can say "Keep my video segmented like the run" to SDA?
Edit history:
Flip: 2011-04-26 01:22:34 pm
Flip: 2011-04-26 01:22:04 pm
1-Up!
I think what imw is proposing is not that we (SDA) offer the runs this way but that a viewer appends the videos and then redistributes via torrent. imo that would reduce possible confusion.

edit: maybe not? clarify please.
Edit history:
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:26:53 pm
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:23:34 pm
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Flip:  Well, that was (the bulk of) my original proposal yes, but I'm certainly all in favor of SDA negating my proposal by just getting rid of the multiple video option as well.  Whatever you guys all prefer, of course, hence the 'nudge' thing at the end of the proposal.  I've brought up sda-wide change before, and it didn't work (thus the proposal), but I'm certainly open to revisiting that issue as well.
1-Up!
I think it would be best if it were appended outside of the site and redistributed with the runners permission.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Okay.  My biggest fear for that is the organization and the stickier issues of keeping torrents available, as well as finding help in creating the appends.  But obviously, any community-driven project like that would invite such difficulties, so I can't blame that on SDA.  To me it's more logical to nip the problem in the bud by appending up front (which would also reduce the total amount of work involved by half, since the community would not have to work to UNDO the problem), but I realize I would be asking for a LOT from SDA going that route, so I went straight to the proposal instead of bringing up the old argument again.

But anyway.
Edit history:
Exo: 2011-04-26 01:33:39 pm
Sandbagging
It's not like it has to be done with every run on the site.
If a runner is against it that's totally fine.
Flip's suggestion to host it on another source is ok but the problem is finding one.
Most free file-hosters suffer from low bandwith speeds and/or waiting times.
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Well, if we went the route of the proposal, that's why I'd be in favor of torrents.  And even if you DO find a free hoster, they'll typically remove the video after awhile (Half-Life collection gets outdated in a rolling fashion ALL the time), which brings us back to the thorny issues.  EDIT:  But still, it'd probably give us longer initial download-windows than torrents would, so there's some merit to it.

What about that there merge file business?  Is that like a single video from which you can download the particular segment you want?  If that's how it works, it sounds too good to be true, and it would void having EITHER of the two conventional options SDA hosts.
Sandbagging
Merging video files simply means putting them together ^^
Visit my profile to see my runs!
That's what I thought.  I misread someone earlier who said "users could still download individual videos if they want".  I'm an idiot.

So basically that idea is to again have both a single video and multiple videos.  SDA before said they wouldn't do this.  I'd love if that changed, but I'm not counting on it.
I survived MIKE-Fest 1
make a anri function how can merging all files in one folder and the options to trim 5 sec of each additionally Wink
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Lol, that's what I was trying to do with the Avisynth business.  I tried learning how to write scripts, and unless someone walks me through it, I'm probably never going to get it right.  I'd rather use Sony Vegas or something and not have to bother everyone with tons of questions.  Ballofsnow's appending guide was still a bit over my head, but if someone can come up with an even more user friendly version, be my guest.

Plus that's still a ton of work to go through for every single multiple segment run.  If SDA took care of the issue, or if we users worked together, it would save people a lot of work.
Edit history:
RingRush: 2011-04-26 01:49:57 pm
Personally, I like when segments are not appended. Three reasons why splitting is good, at least as an option (having both would be even better, but there is talk of removing splitting entirely):

1] Long runs, especially RPGs: I don't know about you guys, but if I want to watch a run of an RPG (say, Baten Kaitos Origins), I do NOT want to watch the hours of dialogue or boring segments. I want to see the battles, the interesting enemy dodging, not talking to towns people. This is why having the videos split is great - I check the runners comments, see which segments have fights or other interesting details, and watch those instead of the whole run. My time is used more efficiently and I don't have to download things I'll never watch.

2] It can be very jarring, especially in runs with many, short segments and save warping, to have no transitions between segments. Especially in heavily glitched runs, the actual segment breaks may be difficult to determine and it may be unclear whether the warping is due to saving or not. One interesting example that comes to mind is Ocarina of Time: at one point in the 100% route, the runner is supposed to kill himself to end a segment. At another point, the runner is supposed to kill himself and continue with the segment. In both cases you get a fadeout after the death, but one is a segment break and one isn't. If you aren't very familiar with the game and know exactly where death warps you with/without a segment break, you really can't tell the difference between the two.

3] Less work...the admins alerady have enough on their plate. If the runners append their own video, that is fine, but don't force the admins to do it. Furthermore, don't force the runners to do it: most do not have experience with such complex video editing. If it is optional that is okay, but forcing it can't end up well.
Edit history:
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:57:29 pm
InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-04-26 01:54:41 pm
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Thanks for your feedback.  Just for the record, the only reason I have spoken about SDA doing it automatically is because I was addressing the ideal world.  The actual proposal itself was for the real world. 

Reason #2 is interesting, and one I had not thought of on my own.  However, this is like saying there should not be Real Time Attack runs on the site, which has been allowed.  Even if that weren't true, that's more of an argument to preserve statids than it is to split up the videos.  Heck, if we really wanted, we could leave statids between segments (that's what I did when I appended Grappling Hook), but that doesn't mean we need multiple videos.

As for #3, I wasn't under the impression it would add work.  It would be rougher on the RAM, if that's what you meant.  I assumed this could be automated.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  And even if it DOES add work, I hate to say this but wouldn't it be better to add work on the encoding end than to make the viewers do it?

I already addressed #1 above (edit: in post #3).  To me this does not really make much persuasive sense.  But, feel free to disagree with me.  Smiley

By the way, I realize I am responding to everything being posted.  My intent is not to badger everyone to death with arguments.  So far this has been pretty constructive, with about half the people in favor and about half against.  One thing I've noticed is that there has not been much response to my initial questions #2 and #3, and that to me suggests that this proposal probably would not work.  But that's just an observation 20 (or whatever) posts in.  Feel free to keep discussing.
Edit history:
Exo: 2011-04-26 02:07:35 pm
Sandbagging
Quote from RingRush:
3] Less work...the admins alerady have enough on their plate. If the runners append their own video, that is fine, but don't force the admins to do it. Furthermore, don't force the runners to do it: most do not have experience with such complex video editing. If it is optional that is okay, but forcing it can't end up well.


Merging video files is one of the simplest video editing tasks ever. It's easier than using anri-chan (which already is easy).
I think anri even features avi appending :s

P.S.: There's even loads of free 1-click programs for it ^^
Visit my profile to see my runs!
Exo, could those be used for the project?  Like, I just tell it to merge everything in my Star Fox Adventures directory and it does it without me having to deal with timelines and crap as in Sony Vegas? 

EDIT:  Thank you!
Edit history:
Exo: 2011-04-26 02:12:39 pm
Exo: 2011-04-26 02:12:22 pm
Sandbagging
@InspidMuckyWater : Yes. Just google avi/mpeg/video/mp4/*insert other video format* + joiner/merger/etc.  You get the idea ^^