Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Gamecube Vers. or Wii?

2007-05-17 03:33:41 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

How are you going to play NHL 2008 with the Wiimote? its not going to happen.

Uhh, analog to move, wiimote to use the stick, A and B for checking and sprinting? It doesn't sound impossible by any means...

Lazylen

Edit history:

Lazylen: 2007-05-17 04:55:46 am

2007-05-17 04:54:45 am

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

Quote:

Uhh, analog to move, wiimote to use the stick, A and B for checking and sprinting? It doesn't sound impossible by any means...

Wiimote to use the stick... Hmm...

There are many shots in hockey.

-Slapshot
-Wristshot
-Snapshot
-Backhand
-Wrap-Around (needs a completely different function than a normal shot)
-Backhand Snapshot
-Raising the puck, anyone?
-Backhand Raising?
-midair tips?
-Diving shots?

What about Passing? How would you aim properly?

What about Hooking, Slashing, Crosschecking? Elbowing?

Pokechecks? Interceptions?

Don't tell me you'd have to stand up and move the wiimote to the exact right spot, because frankly, that won't work.

What about goaltending? What if you want to make a high glove save? low glove save? What if your goalie is left handed, you're right? or the other way around?

What if you want to pull a Bullshit Pronger hit and try to completely mutilate an incredible player? Timing? Psshht.

Hockey fighting isn't like boxing, you know.
Neither is Goalie fighting.

There is no way the wiimote will be able to differentiate between all the different shots and all the different hits/offences. That's why they invented the normal controller.

And don't even get me started on Basketball.

There is no way they're using just the wiimote for SSBB. And since they're making it for that, they will use it for the sports games when they come out later in the year.

Oh, BTW all ducks fans...

DETROIT RULES.

[quote]
Uhh, analog to move, wiimote to use the stick, A and B for checking and sprinting?  It doesn't sound impossible by any means...[/quote]

Wiimote to use the stick... Hmm...

There are many shots in hockey.

-Slapshot
-Wristshot
-Snapshot
-Backhand
-Wrap-Around (needs a completely different function than a normal shot)
-Backhand Snapshot
-Raising the puck, anyone?
-Backhand Raising?
-midair tips?
-Diving shots?

What about Passing?  How would you aim properly?

What about Hooking, Slashing, Crosschecking?  Elbowing?

Pokechecks?  Interceptions?

Don't tell me you'd have to stand up and move the wiimote to the exact right spot, because frankly, that won't work.

What about goaltending?  What if you want to make a high glove save? low glove save?  What if your goalie is left handed, you're right? or the other way around?

What if you want to pull a Bullshit Pronger hit and try to completely mutilate an incredible player?  Timing?  Psshht.

Hockey fighting isn't like boxing, you know.
Neither is Goalie fighting.

There is no way the wiimote will be able to differentiate between all the different shots and all the different hits/offences.  That's why they invented the normal controller.

And don't even get me started on Basketball.

There is no way they're using just the wiimote for SSBB.  And since they're making it for that, they will use it for the sports games when they come out later in the year.

Oh, BTW all ducks fans...

DETROIT RULES.

Zurreco

2007-05-17 05:40:17 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

*Lots of Hockey talk*

There is no way they're using just the wiimote for SSBB. And since they're making it for that, they will use it for the sports games when they come out later in the year.

Well, they've made do to have Tennis play "acceptable" enough for me, so I figure they'll be able to do it for a
hockey title, too. I know it's not as perfect/complex as I would have liked, but it was still super fun. I doubt anyone is really going to care if you only get 4 different shots rather than 7, or that you won't be able to highstick the shit out of someone (I doubt they would really even want to put that in the game, in case it goes online). There are millions of possible and probable ways to make a hockey game using the wiimote and nunchuk together. You're just being picky about what can and can not happen without giving it a chance.

Watch this!
Slapshot: slide wiimote to the left (as a righty)
Wristshot: rotate wiimote to the left at a high speed
Snapshot: slapshot whilst holding A+B
Backhand: slide wiimote to the right
Wrap-Around: probably won't make it in, but you could pull back with the wiimote
Backhand Snapshot: backhanded slapshot with A+B
Raising the puck, anyone? roll the wiimote as you swing (like putting spin on Wii Bowling)
Backhand Raising? hey, same thing as before!
midair tips? same as the other swings!
Diving shots? swing away as if you're diving in Wii Tennis

Passing could be controlled as it is in most soccer games: B+swing passes to the nearest player on your left. B+backhand passes it to the nearest person on your right.
Z can control turbo, and shaking the nun chuk can induce checking. I don't see any reason for wanting to include realistic elbowing or anything. Along with that, realistic boxing isn't needed: just make the characters auto circle and throw punches like boxing.

Since the goalie doesn't check anyone or move in turbo, Z activates the nun chuck as the glove, so that you can stop in place and make grabs.

So there you have it. It's not perfect, but it's totally workable.

And, for the record and for the last time, SSBB WILL NOT BE USING THE WIIMOTE. THERE IS A REASON THAT THEY RELEASED THE CLASSIC CONTROLLER AND HAVE GCN CONTROLLER PORTS ON THE WII. NEXT PERSON WHO COMMENTS ABOUT HOW BURDENSOME THE WIIMOTE WILL BE WHILST PLAYING SSBB IS OFFICIALLY THE WORST MEMBER OF THESE FORUMS WHEN IT COMES TO READING COMPREHENSION.

[quote]*Lots of Hockey talk*

There is no way they're using just the wiimote for SSBB.  And since they're making it for that, they will use it for the sports games when they come out later in the year.[/quote]
Well, they've made do to have Tennis play "acceptable" enough for me, so I figure they'll be able to do it for a 
hockey title, too.  I know it's not as perfect/complex as I would have liked, but it was still super fun.  I doubt anyone is really going to care if you only get 4 different shots rather than 7, or that you won't be able to highstick the shit out of someone (I doubt they would really even want to put that in the game, in case it goes online).  There are millions of possible and probable ways to make a hockey game using the wiimote and nunchuk together.  You're just being picky about what can and can not happen without giving it a chance.

Watch this!
Slapshot: slide wiimote to the left (as a righty)
Wristshot: rotate wiimote to the left at a high speed
Snapshot: slapshot whilst holding A+B
Backhand:  slide wiimote to the right
Wrap-Around: probably won't make it in, but you could pull back with the wiimote
Backhand Snapshot: backhanded slapshot with A+B
Raising the puck, anyone?  roll the wiimote as you swing (like putting spin on Wii Bowling)
Backhand Raising?  hey, same thing as before!
midair tips? same as the other swings!
Diving shots?  swing away as if you're diving in Wii Tennis

Passing could be controlled as it is in most soccer games: B+swing passes to the nearest player on your left.  B+backhand passes it to the nearest person on your right.
Z can control turbo, and shaking the nun chuk can induce checking.  I don't see any reason for wanting to include realistic elbowing or anything.  Along with that, realistic boxing isn't needed: just make the characters auto circle and throw punches like boxing.

Since the goalie doesn't check anyone or move in turbo, Z activates the nun chuck as the glove, so that you can stop in place and make grabs.

So there you have it.  It's not perfect, but it's totally workable.

And, for the record and for the last time, SSBB WILL NOT BE USING THE WIIMOTE.  THERE IS A REASON THAT THEY RELEASED THE CLASSIC CONTROLLER AND HAVE GCN CONTROLLER PORTS ON THE WII.  NEXT PERSON WHO COMMENTS ABOUT HOW BURDENSOME THE WIIMOTE WILL BE WHILST PLAYING SSBB IS OFFICIALLY THE WORST MEMBER OF THESE FORUMS WHEN IT COMES TO READING COMPREHENSION.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2007-05-17 05:50:06 am

2007-05-17 05:49:22 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

So from this discussion, it seems we have to have a GCN shell or a classic controller (which I already have) to play Brawl? Why can't I just plug in the GCN controllers into the Wii like I already do when I play regular Gamecube games? I'm assuming I can do this if I want and just nobody but Zurreco has mentioned it yet, right?

Also, yeah, I don't think Nintendo's too worried about selling systems right now. All systems sell for a loss anyway. Twilight Princess sold better on Gamecube than on Wii, didn't it (or at least, it had been selling better on GCN the last time I checked)? Of course, the more systems they sell, the more games that will eventually follow, but I'm thinking Nintendo's philosophy here is to increase the raw software profit and worry about the systems later, when there will be an abundant supply. After all, SSBB will release during the holidays, IIRC, so it's not like there should be any surplus systems just sitting around at that time; every Wii on the market will probably sell up through sometime the next year.

So from this discussion, it seems we have to have a GCN shell or a classic controller (which I already have) to play Brawl? Why can't I just plug in the GCN controllers into the Wii like I already do when I play regular Gamecube games?  I'm assuming I can do this if I want and just nobody but Zurreco has mentioned it yet, right?

Also, yeah, I don't think Nintendo's too worried about selling systems right now.  All systems sell for a loss anyway. Twilight Princess sold better on Gamecube than on Wii, didn't it (or at least, it had been selling better on GCN the last time I checked)?  Of course, the more systems they sell, the more games that will eventually follow, but I'm thinking Nintendo's philosophy here is to increase the raw software profit and worry about the systems later, when there will be an abundant supply.  After all, SSBB will release during the holidays, IIRC, so it's not like there should be any surplus systems just sitting around at that time; every Wii on the market will probably sell up through sometime the next year.

Zurreco

2007-05-17 05:54:14 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Quote:

All systems sell for a loss anyway.

Err, the Wii actually doesn't sell for a loss.

Amazing Ampharos

2007-05-17 01:25:14 pm

I'm amazed that anyone here believes this.

Satoryu

2007-05-17 05:01:09 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote:

So from this discussion, it seems we have to have a GCN shell or a classic controller (which I already have) to play Brawl? Why can't I just plug in the GCN controllers into the Wii like I already do when I play regular Gamecube games? I'm assuming I can do this if I want and just nobody but Zurreco has mentioned it yet, right?

of course you'll be able to use a GC controller. Nintendo said early on to "not throw away your Gamecube controllers just yet."

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2007-05-17 05:19:03 pm

2007-05-17 05:18:41 pm

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Quote:

Err, the Wii actually doesn't sell for a loss.

You know, I did some research, and it does in fact seem you're right. It's astonishing to me, honestly, but Nintendo does allegedly record a profit with each sale of a Wii. Wow, Nintendo's really got a good thing going here.

trihex

2007-05-17 05:39:37 pm

Yoshi's eggs are at my mercy!

Quote:

You know, I did some research, and it does in fact seem you're right. It's astonishing to me, honestly, but Nintendo does allegedly record a profit with each sale of a Wii. Wow, Nintendo's really got a good thing going here.

To be exact, back in November, manufacturing costs of the Wii, minus the retal price in the US, ($249) equaled about $14 USD. Minus out the retailer's share of the profit, you have approximately how much Nintendo was making back in 2006, which I'm sure has increased since.

Nintendo is also making profits on controllers, nunchucks, and all official accessories for Wii.

UchihaSasuke

2007-05-17 08:49:32 pm

Stand: Devil's Call in your Heart

the GC's 3rd place wasn't that big of a deal. it was only 2-3 million behind Xbox in total. the PS2 murdered both of them brutally so 2nd and 3rd places are meaningless in the big picture (although the xbox could have gone farther if MS didn't kill it early)

also, it is even less important to look at last gen since look at how the market has changed. Sony is now the one stuck in a real distant 3rd place and Nintendo will be #1 in a few months once they can finally produce enough Wiis. the 360's recent and upcoming games might delay the catch up but it will happen eventually.

btw, the SSBB rumor is quite shitty. there won't be a GC version. Zelda had a dual release just to be sure the Wii wouldn't tank but things turned out differently. now, Nintendo doesn't even need their big games to sell the Wii right now since games like Wii Sports are doing all the job.
in japan it's even more suprising since Wii Sports isn't packed with the console and the Wii has sold in 6 months more than half of what GC sold in it's entire life already. for comparisons, Wii Sports is past 1.5 million and Zelda was only above 400k over there.

unlike Zelda, SSBB was started on Wii and i really doubt they'll downgrade the game to make it work on GC. also, if a GC version is ever made, it will be really short in extras like FMV and shit due to the GC's small disk space. it will also look worse and sound worse probably.

for the record, the Wii version of TP outsold the GC version everywhere (potentially, Nintendo sabotaged the GC version's availability to increase Wii demand)

the GC's 3rd place wasn't that big of a deal. it was only 2-3 million behind Xbox in total. the PS2 murdered both of them brutally so 2nd and 3rd places are meaningless in the big picture (although the xbox could have gone farther if MS didn't kill it early)

also, it is even less important to look at last gen since look at how the market has changed. Sony is now the one stuck in a real distant 3rd place and Nintendo will be #1 in a few months once they can finally produce enough Wiis. the 360's recent and upcoming games might delay the catch up but it will happen eventually.

btw, the SSBB rumor is quite shitty. there won't be a GC version. Zelda had a dual release just to be sure the Wii wouldn't tank but things turned out differently. now, Nintendo doesn't even need their big games to sell the Wii right now since games like Wii Sports are doing all the job. 
in japan it's even more suprising since Wii Sports isn't packed with the console and the Wii has sold in 6 months more than half of what GC sold in it's entire life already. for comparisons, Wii Sports is past 1.5 million and Zelda was only above 400k over there.

unlike Zelda, SSBB was started on Wii and i really doubt they'll downgrade the game to make it work on GC. also, if a GC version is ever made, it will be really short in extras like FMV and shit due to the GC's small disk space. it will also look worse and sound worse probably.

for the record, the Wii version of TP outsold the GC version everywhere (potentially, Nintendo sabotaged the GC version's availability to increase Wii demand)

Lazylen

2007-05-17 10:16:56 pm

fuck you i wont do what you tell me

but why use the wiimote when you can use a normal paddle in a hockey situation?

gmacd

2007-05-18 03:48:21 am

I don't own a Wii, but I was playing my friend's recently. Why couldn't SSBB use the Wiimote + Nunchuck? The Nunchuck would be movement, while the A and B buttons would do what they already do in SSBM.

Satoryu

2007-05-18 03:57:47 am

Visually Appealing

cause it'll feel awkward and gimmicky. fighting games should always be played with either a controller or arcade stick. the Wiimote doesn't quite work.

plus, the Smash games always had diverse controls with multiple ways to perform actions. much better suited for a controller.

Manocheese

2007-05-18 05:46:57 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

I don't own a Wii, but I was playing my friend's recently. Why couldn't SSBB use the Wiimote + Nunchuck? The Nunchuck would be movement, while the A and B buttons would do what they already do in SSBM.

Good thing the only buttons used in SSBM are A and B, huh?

andrewg

2007-05-19 12:05:13 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Yeah, the advanced players would be pretty mad I'd assume.

Chunky

2007-05-19 07:09:34 pm

"zomg why can't i do a sooperwavedash"

Arrow

Edit history:

Arrow: 2007-05-22 08:58:22 am

2007-05-22 08:51:28 am

Now a hit show on the CW

The official SSBB site relaunched today.

(smashbros.com)

It seems pretty clear that it's a Wii-only game. Wii logo at the top of the screen (no GCN logo), and "This is the official site for the Wii game Super Smash Bros. Brawl" in the introduction. However, interesting to note is that the icon for the "How to play" section looks like a Wii-mote, despite previous reports that the game would not use the remote. Maybe it supports both now?

Not much new to see on the site, except details about how time of day will affect certain stages, a new song (remix of the SSBM menu music), and a LONG list of contributing musicians (Yasunori Mitsuda, YES!). And supposedly it's going to be updated daily.

Zurreco

2007-06-08 10:10:12 am

Just call me the cynicism machine

Update: Super Smash Bros. Brawl has 4 control schemes:

No word yet on how the Wiimote only control scheme works, but there was talk a long time ago about moving the Wiimote whilst pressing buttons to make them smash attacks and whatnot back when the game was in pre-development.

Talk amongst yourselves. Also, the new Fox design looks like it has Downs' Syndrome or something...

illuminated

2007-06-08 04:00:17 pm

I suggest changing the title to "Which controller will you use?"

Satoryu

2007-06-08 04:32:05 pm

Visually Appealing

Christ in heaven. i was so sure they wouldn't use it. it sucks to be proven wrong.

i can't see the Wiimote controls working AT ALL. Nunchuk, maybe. but the Wiimote alone is going to be for masochists.

laughing_gas

2007-06-08 04:43:31 pm

Existence as you know it is over

I use a d-pad to play SSB64 on an emu and it works fine, at least with kirby.

Ness is impossible though cuz you can't control the Up+B move.

Yoshi348

Edit history:

Yoshi348: 2007-06-08 10:33:39 pm

2007-06-08 10:33:10 pm

dinosaur from the past

Quote:

Christ in heaven. i was so sure they wouldn't use it. it sucks to be proven wrong.

Not really, since it's not like you can't just use the GC controller.

EDIT: Or did you just mean the personal part about getting proven wrong?

Satoryu

Edit history:

Satoryu: 2007-06-08 11:51:21 pm

2007-06-08 11:48:19 pm

Visually Appealing

Quote:

Or did you just mean the personal part about getting proven wrong?

yeah that's what i meant. my mind was absolutely set that Brawl would not use the Wiimote at all. i'd scold people who mentioned it. my ego took a big hit today.

from the tone of the news post, it seems Sakurai was reluctant to include Wiimote control. and for good reason. kinda like IGA incorporating the sealing thing in Dawn of Sorrow.

mzxrules

Edit history:

mzxrules: 2007-06-09 02:29:02 am

2007-06-09 02:28:31 am

zeldaspeedruns.com

In a business point of view, nintendo had to do it. Otherwise things would've gotten a bit confusing.

I think I could see an issue with player numbering. I mean, what would happen if there was 4 Wiimotes and 4 classic controllers hooked up together at one time? 8 player mode? 1/2 8 player mode?

Satoryu

2007-06-09 02:35:59 am

Visually Appealing

you're thinking too much into it.