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^_^
Hello.

I've been wondering about how the Any% glitchless run by Laplacier (26:37) was timed.
Background: in the game's community we start the timer on the pipe selection screen when pressing down or start to choose a pipe. Timing ends exactly on the third hit on Wario's third phase. Using that timing, Laplacier's run has a length of 26:38.2 - as can be found on the game's official leaderboards. However, there is the official SDA timing rule as can be found in the SDA FAQ:
Quote:
When the player first gains control of the game's character, timing begins. At the end when control is lost, even if that's long after the final battle, the timing stops.

In this game's context I interpret it as following: between the pipe selection and the first step in the intro level there's a gap of 179 frames (~2.987 seconds) during which there is the animation of Mario sliding down the pipe, a fade to the overworld map, the level entering animation and a another fade to the actual intro level. You visibly gain control of Mario 179 frames after selecting a pipe. That is where I assume SDA timing would start(?) Or would the timing even start as early as you can move ON the pipe selection screen? The latter would be unreasonable because it would favor pipe A and everybody knows that pipe C is the best. Joke aside, it would complicate things (reset -> start -> clear pipe -> reset -> start -> enter pipe) in a very unreasonable way since the game is rather reset-heavy.
Let's move on to the end part: after the community timing ends on the third hit on Wario 3 there's a period of 470 frames (~7.841 seconds) during which you can still control Mario. You finally lose control of Mario once Wario's sprite stops flashing and starts crying. That is where I would assume the SDA timing should end(?)
Conveniently, the difference between official and SDA timing should be a constant 291 frames or ~4.854 seconds (official leaderboards time + 4.854 seconds = SDA time).
However, if you've been following along you'll have noticed that this doesn't seem to work out for the time of the submitted run (official leaderboards time: 26:38.2; SDA time: 26:37 -- where are the milliseconds, anyway?)

Why am I asking all this? I have the current world record and want some clarity about the timing before I consider submitting a run to SDA. Maybe I'm just misinterpreting something.

I hope someone can clear things up for me.
Thanks in advance!
Thread title:  
Edit history:
IsraeliRD: 2015-12-29 11:54:24 am
Dragon Power Supreme
Quote:
SDA time: 26:37 -- where are the milliseconds, anyway?

We don't do milliseconds unless the game has those (usually in-game timer).

Regarding how it was timed... uh, apparently I have both start and end points different to yours..  overworld was start point, wario flashing was end point.. sums up to 0.2 seconds difference to your timing haha. Now that I know that it's been wrong, then SDA timing would be on the pipe selection screen (see the equivalent of this in Mega Man boss select screen [overworld is equivalent to other mario games]) and end whenever Wario begins crying.

Oh and if someone submits a Large Skips run then the difference in timing will be taken into account because guess who has the incorrect start point.
Edit history:
Oh_DeeR: 2015-12-29 01:27:54 pm
Oh_DeeR: 2015-12-29 01:26:52 pm
^_^
Thanks for the answer! I have several suggestions and questions.

Quote from IsraeliRD:
We don't do milliseconds unless the game has those (usually in-game timer).


That seems like an unreasonable oversight if that is actually official. Looking at the general video quality (that is rightfully required for submissions) it would not be a problem to pinpoint the times at the very least down to the tenths reliably. I assume that a new submission that beats an old one by just frames would still be considered a new SDA record, too - it would just have the same time as the then obsoleted submission? I am aware that SDA never strived for being an official leaderboard with the most up to date times. However, in some games there can be milestones that are easily within the domain of tenths or even hundredths. Just my thoughts.

Quote from IsraeliRD:
Now that I know that it's been wrong, then SDA timing would be on the pipe selection screen (see the equivalent of this in Mega Man boss select screen [overworld is equivalent to other mario games]) and end whenever Wario begins crying.


Actually, starting on the pipe selection screen would contradict the FAQ excerpt I quoted. The Mario seen on that screen is merely a reskinned cursor in the shape of Mario. Functionally it is not the same as the character used to play and finish the game. I think the rule to start timing once you gain control of the character is there for exactly that reason: to disregard initial menuing. Therefore, the only logical start points would be either the frame Mario starts moving in the intro level or the frame you press A or START on the world map - since world map navigation is an obvious part of the game throughout the whole run and practically synonymous to gaining control of Mario on the map. This is basically where you set the start point in Laplacier's submission and I would support handling it like this. The only oversight seems to have been that you weren't aware that you could still control Mario after the third hit on Wario.

I'm just trying to correctly apply the written SDA rules to the game here. I have no personal agenda or anything except wanting some clarity for future submissions.

Your thoughts, SDA community?

Quote from IsraeliRD:
Oh and if someone submits a Large Skips run then the difference in timing will be taken into account because guess who has the incorrect start point.


Gonna learn the run in 2016. :-p