Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2010-06-14 10:29:18 pm

2010-06-14 08:44:50 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Quote from spacoina:

Quote from andrewg:

Lost Levels in 8:13

Just watched this, and that's an insane run. Congrats man Smiley

Maybe I'll eat my words later, but I really can't see more than a few seconds coming off your time. Can you? How low do you think it can go?

I'm reviewing my run a bit to see if I can come up with any more clever time-savers.

As far as strategies are concerned:
1-1 - perfect
1-2 - Maybe I can jump through the wall in room 2, I have never managed though.
4-1 - perfect
4-2 - perfect
4-3 - perfect
4-4 - improvable, I chose not to use a riskier strategy that would save ~1 second
5-1 - perfect
5-2 - Considering I came up with the method myself, I'm willing to bet I can jump directly into the pipe like the TAS/possibly do a slightly altered tactic.
8-1 - perfect
8-2 - I need to copy nico video with their strategies at the vine
8-3 - perfect
8-4 - probably the trickiest part of the run. There are a few thing I know I can manage to save some time, they are all very difficult. (one time I glitched into a wall in the water area like the TAS, but I don't know the specifics to save time doing this yet)

So I'm definitely going to look more at levels 1-2, 5-2, and 8-4 especially. There 3 levels seem to have the most potential for improvement. There's also the option of getting the firepower like the TAS does. With some training, I bet I can save time by getting powerups.

I'm gonna watch the TAS a few times and try and come up with new and better methods of execution for my run.

I don't doubt that there's something along the lines of 10 seconds of improvement. I just need to find them. Maybe 8 minutes flat is possible? Who knows?

[quote="spacoina"]
[quote="andrewg"]
Lost Levels in 8:13
[/quote]
Just watched this, and that's an insane run. Congrats man :)
Maybe I'll eat my words later, but I really can't see more than a few seconds coming off your time. Can you? How low do you think it can go?
[/quote]

I'm reviewing my run a bit to see if I can come up with any more clever time-savers.

As far as strategies are concerned:
1-1 - perfect
1-2 - Maybe I can jump through the wall in room 2, I have never managed though.
4-1 - perfect
4-2 - perfect
4-3 - perfect
4-4 - improvable, I chose not to use a riskier strategy that would save ~1 second
5-1 - perfect
5-2 - Considering I came up with the method myself, I'm willing to bet I can jump directly into the pipe like the TAS/possibly do a slightly altered tactic. 
8-1 - perfect
8-2 - I need to copy nico video with their strategies at the vine
8-3 - perfect
8-4 - probably the trickiest part of the run. There are a few thing I know I can manage to save some time, they are all very difficult. (one time I glitched into a wall in the water area like the TAS, but I don't know the specifics to save time doing this yet)

So I'm definitely going to look more at levels 1-2, 5-2, and 8-4 especially. There 3 levels seem to have the most potential for improvement. There's also the option of getting the firepower like the TAS does. With some training, I bet I can save time by getting powerups.

I'm gonna watch the TAS a few times and try and come up with new and better methods of execution for my run.

I don't doubt that there's something along the lines of 10 seconds of improvement. I just need to find them. Maybe 8 minutes flat is possible? Who knows?

Ferneu

2010-06-26 09:36:30 pm

...

This thing keeps getting better and better. Keep it up!

tanookijumpsuit

2010-07-09 08:19:21 pm

I just watched that video. WOW. That's very impressive, especially the koopa jump in 5-1 and the koopa hit to glitch the platform out in 8-3. Those 2 things more than anything made me stop for a second. Congrats man.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2010-07-09 10:45:25 pm

2010-07-09 10:39:55 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Quote from tanookijumpsuit:

I just watched that video. WOW. That's very impressive, especially the koopa jump in 5-1 and the koopa hit to glitch the platform out in 8-3. Those 2 things more than anything made me stop for a second. Congrats man.

Glad you liked it. I'm hoping I can improve that in the near future. This is a difficult run though and I did a pretty nice job already.

I know it won't be an easy task for anyone to beat my run. That's always a good thing.

tanookijumpsuit

2010-07-10 01:38:01 pm

Yeah, definitely not going to be easy to top this run. Still not gonna stop me from trying. This is the one record I want more than anything. Guess I know what I'm doing this summer, lol. Just out of curiousity, are you planning on going to MagFest this year?

andrewg

2010-07-10 08:28:56 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Quote from tanookijumpsuit:

Yeah, definitely not going to be easy to top this run. Still not gonna stop me from trying. This is the one record I want more than anything. Guess I know what I'm doing this summer, lol. Just out of curiousity, are you planning on going to MagFest this year?

You know, I thik if I had "played it safe" with some different methods I came up with, I'd probably be able to top this run. It's just that mistakes are bound to happen. 8-1 and 8-2 together have ~4-5 seconds of mistakes. So it's definitely improvable. Good luck!

I will be very impressed if anyone tops this soon. It's very possible to beat, but the only way is to spend the time! practice practice practice practice practice practice, you get the point. 8)

I plan on attending the SDA marathon and MAGfest as it stands now. Hope to see you if you plan on coming!

tanookijumpsuit

2010-07-11 01:49:00 am

Yeah, I'd say the biggest issues with your run are 5-1 where you stall on the stair, missing the block pillar in the beginning of 8-1, and messing up getting to the vine in 8-2. Even so, that's about 5 seconds right there. I've hit 341 on 8-1 before, and 355 is completely possible on 8-2 (356, maybe even 357 if you can get the second bounce of the koopa like in that nicovideo you mentioned).

The main things I know I'm gonna have to work on are wall jumping in 1-2 (such a huge time saver, especially if you can glitch through the wall to the pipe), that koopa hit to the cliff in 5-1, and that god forsaken jump over the pit in 8-4.

2 of my friends and I are planning to go to MAGFest come January. We live in southeast VA, so the drive isn't too bad. One of them mainly plays Mario and Zelda games, and Brawl. The other kinda just plays any and everything. Hopefully I can get this record before then.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2014-05-22 11:50:51 pm

2014-05-22 11:48:12 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Bump!

I couldn't actually find a Lost Levels thread that was relevant besides this one. I think this is a good thread to continue to use for Lost Levels discussion. There are like 10 Lost Levels threads and they are all specific categories of abandoned projects people have tried for this game.

Anyway, since this thread was regarding the FDS version, I wanted to say a bit about my progress thus far. I rewatched my run from 2010 and wasn't too impressed. It's weird how runs I used to consider to be very good now just seem like sloppy runs. Kind of interesting to see how speedrunning as a whole has changed and the level of optimization is at a MUCH higher standard than just a few years back.

My 8:13 record is isn't too bad, but I think 5+ seconds can be gained over that time. I am working on the SNES version mostly right now, but after watching my FDS run, I just feel it deserves an update with it being the original version of the run and all.

Currently, I'm dong warp runs to D-4 on SNES. I think my aim is sub 14 minutes. It seems like a very challenging target. Cheesy

I'll be streaming!

Bump!

I couldn't actually find a Lost Levels thread that was relevant besides this one. I think this is a good thread to continue to use for Lost Levels discussion. There are like 10 Lost Levels threads and they are all specific categories of abandoned projects people have tried for this game.

Anyway, since this thread was regarding the FDS version, I wanted to say a bit about my progress thus far. I rewatched my run from 2010 and wasn't too impressed. It's weird how runs I used to consider to be very good now just seem like sloppy runs. Kind of interesting to see how speedrunning as a whole has changed and the level of optimization is at a MUCH higher standard than just a few years back.

My 8:13 record is isn't too bad, but I think 5+ seconds can be gained over that time. I am working on the SNES version mostly right now, but after watching my FDS run, I just feel it deserves an update with it being the original version of the run and all.

Currently, I'm dong warp runs to D-4 on SNES. I think my aim is sub 14 minutes. It seems like a very challenging target. :D I'll be streaming!

DeMoNFLiP84

2014-05-23 12:04:16 am

A Serious Noob

I hope you get a good time that you're happy with. Yeah the standards are that high now since then and I see you're making that good progress. I would say good luck but you don't need it haha. You got this! Wink

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2014-05-27 01:32:51 pm

andrewg: 2014-05-26 11:54:29 pm

andrewg: 2014-05-26 11:53:12 pm

andrewg: 2014-05-23 10:09:12 pm

2014-05-23 10:08:41 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

5/26 - SNES: D-4 Warpless = 42:24. Needs improvement. More specifically, at least 6 minutes worth.
5/27 - SNES: D-4 Warpless = 39:00. 8-4 Warpless = 23:08. Practicing fire strategies.

andrewg

2014-06-03 10:38:44 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Keep thinking it would be interesting/possibly faster if I did a run as Luigi up to A-3, and then when you save+quit out, pick Mario when going back in to B-4. Thinking it because it could be faster. I think you can walljump up the wall in 1-2, and also avoiding the first walljump in 1-2 (total savings of ~2 seconds). The only thing is that I'm not sure this would qualify as an official category? But this was just an idea, just as I was thinking through how to save time for D-4 Warps.

presjpolk

2014-06-03 06:12:57 pm

HELLO!

I would think using whatever character is fastest at any given time is the most legitimate category, as we do in Luigi U.

Blubbler

2014-06-05 10:19:15 am

I see no issue with switching characters, but I think Luigi loses more than just 2s on Mario up until A-3.

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-07-23 05:05:21 am

2014-07-22 05:40:03 pm

andrew, is there are a reason you are doing the wallclip above the Goombas instead of here?

(briefly press left after making the duck jump)
I find this one easier and for the warps D-4 run it may make more sense than trying to do the walljump (the walljump is still faster than waiting for the ejection to the right)?

andrewg

2014-07-23 10:38:23 am

As for the SNES version, I prefer the lower section because the jump off the edge of the pipe is slightly harder than on FDS. On FDS, that's how I clip through. However, when I'm going for perfection I jump up there and walljump through the ceiling (like the TAS). I think that's what you're talking about.

I'm not sure if having fire for the FDS version is better than no fire for the warp run. I never really went to the trouble to figure this out. Are you doing a SNES D-4 run?

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-07-23 10:50:28 am

2014-07-23 10:48:42 am

Quote:

As for the SNES version, I prefer the lower section because the jump off the edge of the pipe is slightly harder than on FDS.

My bad, I completely forgot about the hitbox difference...

Quote:

I'm not sure if having fire for the FDS version is better than no fire for the warp run. I never really went to the trouble to figure this out.

It's hard to tell, I made several sloppy TASes (or rather "segmented runs") through the game with and without fire and similiar difficulty in techniques and fire always loses, but I lose time from imperfect Bowser kills and ducking under obstacles. Since the TAS uses fire, I guess it's better at a REALLY high level of optimization.
EDIT: I mean I play through the game with savestates in the manner of "what would I personally be willing to do?" and fire comes out slower, but if you went crazy and went for absolutely optimizing fire, you would probably end up slightly faster.

Quote:

Are you doing a SNES D-4 run?

not right now

Blubbler

Edit history:

Blubbler: 2014-08-01 11:53:17 am

2014-07-24 10:59:09 am

So about that small vs fire thing: I made a few comparisons, of course there's the problem that you will not play 100% the same in runs and framerules being barely missed or gained, etc...

1-1

small save
2037

small semisave
2037

small fast
2016

get mushroom save
2159

get mushroom fast
2138

1-2 Goombas

wait
256

stomp forwards
251

stomp backwards
243

Big Mario wallclip
222

Big Mario wallclip + ejection
248

1-2 Elevator

wait
368

forward walljump
222

backward walljump
212

use top elevator
190

1-2 Warpzone Part 1

save
360

lip jump
320

get mushroom
458

1-2 Warpzone Part 2

small
227

big
230

I think big Mario should be very slightly faster, if they're both optimized

4-1

small
1724

get fire
1829

4-4

small bounce off the walls
1900

small backwards jump
1900

fire
1795
Bowser kill can obviously be both faster and slower.

[b]5-1 Koopa jump[b]

1st Koopa + walljump
1182

2nd Koopa
1182

5-2

small, bumps, slow return
1761

small, bumps, fast return
1719

small, no bumps
1719

fire, bumps, slow return
1761

fire, bumps, fast return
1740

fire, no bumps
1719

8-1

small, very save
2206

small, save
2185

small, fast
2164

fire, very save
2206

fire, save
2206

fire, fast
2185

8-2

small, save
2312

small, vinejump
2312

fire, save
2292

fire, vinejump
2185

8-4 room 1

small, save
214

small, fast
201

fire, save
217

fire, fast
201

you can lose much more with imperfect ducking

8-4 room 2

small
521

fire
533

8-4 room 3

save, small or fire
349

hard, fire
318

routes

route 1: mushroom in 1-1, skip elevator in 1-2, risky
13973

route 2: mushroom in 1-1, skip elevator in 1-2, save
14169

route 3: small, risky
13908

route 4: small, save
14084

That leaves me pretty convinced that fire is only worth it in a TAS (perfect Bowser kill, mushroom in 4-1, fire in 4-2).

So about that small vs fire thing: I made a few comparisons, of course there's the problem that you will not play 100% the same in runs and framerules being barely missed or gained, etc...

[hidden]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Mfbo1qBXs

[b]1-1[/b]

small save
2037

small semisave
2037

small fast
2016

get mushroom save
2159

get mushroom fast
2138

[b]1-2 Goombas[/b]

wait
256

stomp forwards
251

stomp backwards
243

Big Mario wallclip
222

Big Mario wallclip + ejection
248

[b]1-2 Elevator[/b]

wait
368

forward walljump
222

backward walljump
212

use top elevator
190

[b]1-2 Warpzone Part 1[/b]

save
360

lip jump
320

get mushroom
458

[b]1-2 Warpzone Part 2[/b]

small
227

big
230

[color="blue"]I think big Mario should be very slightly faster, if they're both optimized[/color]

[b]4-1[/b]

small
1724

get fire
1829

[b]4-4[/b]

small bounce off the walls
1900

small backwards jump
1900

fire
1795
[color="blue"]Bowser kill can obviously be both faster and slower.[/color]

[b]5-1 Koopa jump[b]

1st Koopa + walljump
1182

2nd Koopa
1182

[b]5-2[/b]

small, bumps, slow return
1761

small, bumps, fast return
1719

small, no bumps
1719

fire, bumps, slow return
1761

fire, bumps, fast return
1740

fire, no bumps
1719

[b]8-1[/b]

small, very save
2206

small, save
2185

small, fast
2164

fire, very save
2206

fire, save
2206

fire, fast
2185

[b]8-2[/b]

small, save
2312

small, vinejump
2312

fire, save
2292

fire, vinejump
2185

[b]8-4 room 1[/b]

small, save
214

small, fast
201

fire, save
217

fire, fast
201

[color="blue"]you can lose much more with imperfect ducking[/color]

[b]8-4 room 2[/b]

small
521

fire
533

[b]8-4 room 3[/b]

save, small or fire
349

hard, fire
318

[b]routes[/b]

route 1: mushroom in 1-1, skip elevator in 1-2, risky
13973

route 2: mushroom in 1-1, skip elevator in 1-2, save
14169

route 3: small, risky
13908

route 4: small, save
14084

That leaves me pretty convinced that fire is only worth it in a TAS (perfect Bowser kill, mushroom in 4-1, fire in 4-2).[/hidden]

Blubbler

2014-08-01 11:52:54 am

http://www.twitch.tv/i_o_l/c/4797476

My first decent run. It's a trainwreck, but no major mistakes. About 6s from WR.

Blubbler

2014-11-07 09:17:44 pm

HavocProdigy

2014-11-07 09:44:59 pm

I saw this live and still don't fully understand the time differences of different versions for this. Congrats though! That was an awesome run.