Super Mario Bros. 2

cak

2010-09-03 06:22:17 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

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Or... is there any way to record both ways at the same time? To send VHS to TG and DVD to SDA?

It's possible, I have the means to record both simultaneously.

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Cak, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about timing differences. I'm pretty sure there is no difference at all.

Maybe so....all I know is I have done rec tests on 2 different VCRs with 2 or 3 different brands of tape, and they all add somewhere between 1.3 and 1.7 seconds to a 9 min recording.

ktwo

2010-09-04 02:44:39 am

Quote from cak:

No glitches were used. TG can accept VHS format, but not DVD, because of frame sync issues and because it's a near-perfect run of a well known game. In my opinion, VHS isn't accurate enough for timing short speedruns, but I guess it doesn't matter as long as everyone has to use the same format.

From your posts, it sounds like there is no way to accurately record a speedrun then ? The VHS lags according to your tests and the dvd-setup has "frame sync issues" (I'm not sure I know what this is, but it doesn't sound good ? Also, are you referring to all dvd-recorders or just yours ?). If tg is extra picky in some cases, did you get an explanation to why they considered VHS to be superior ? (just curious)

Anyways, I hope you find a setup that works out for you. Having watched your Metroid run here on sda, I know that smb2 would be in good hands if you went for a speedrun of it and that it would be a pity if you didn't...

cak

2010-09-04 09:28:32 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Quote:

From your posts, it sounds like there is no way to accurately record a speedrun then ?

No, there are ways, such as video capture card, digital camcorder pointed at TV, analog camcorder pointed at TV and fed into a digital device, DVD recorder with a timebase converter, etc. Though only the last two would be accepted by TG.

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The VHS lags according to your tests and the dvd-setup has "frame sync issues" (I'm not sure I know what this is, but it doesn't sound good ? Also, are you referring to all dvd-recorders or just yours ?).

"Frame sync issue" is referring to the NES video framerate clashing with the framerate of a DVD recorder. I've tested 3 different DVD recorders, and they all have a problem with NES recordings where every 10-20 sec, the video skips ahead 2 or 3 frames. Not super noticeable, but in the context of a sub-9 minute SMB2 run, it looks rather fishy.

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If tg is extra picky in some cases, did you get an explanation to why they considered VHS to be superior ? (just curious)

I didn't ask, but I imagine the answer would be that VHS has been around way longer than DVD and is responsible for the existence of countless records.

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Anyways, I hope you find a setup that works out for you. Having watched your Metroid run here on sda, I know that smb2 would be in good hands if you went for a speedrun of it and that it would be a pity if you didn't...

Thanks. No worries, it'll get recorded eventually.

[quote]From your posts, it sounds like there is no way to accurately record a speedrun then ?[/quote]
No, there are ways, such as video capture card, digital camcorder pointed at TV, analog camcorder pointed at TV and fed into a digital device, DVD recorder with a timebase converter, etc. Though only the last two would be accepted by TG.

[quote]The VHS lags according to your tests and the dvd-setup has "frame sync issues" (I'm not sure I know what this is, but it doesn't sound good ? Also, are you referring to all dvd-recorders or just yours ?).[/quote]
"Frame sync issue" is referring to the NES video framerate clashing with the framerate of a DVD recorder. I've tested 3 different DVD recorders, and they all have a problem with NES recordings where every 10-20 sec, the video skips ahead 2 or 3 frames. Not super noticeable, but in the context of a sub-9 minute SMB2 run, it looks rather fishy.

[quote]If tg is extra picky in some cases, did you get an explanation to why they considered VHS to be superior ? (just curious)[/quote]
I didn't ask, but I imagine the answer would be that VHS has been around way longer than DVD and is responsible for the existence of countless records.

[quote]Anyways, I hope you find a setup that works out for you. Having watched your Metroid run here on sda, I know that smb2 would be in good hands if you went for a speedrun of it and that it would be a pity if you didn't...[/quote]
Thanks. No worries, it'll get recorded eventually.

ktwo

2010-09-05 02:23:58 pm

Quote from cak:

"Frame sync issue" is referring to the NES video framerate clashing with the framerate of a DVD recorder. I've tested 3 different DVD recorders, and they all have a problem with NES recordings where every 10-20 sec, the video skips ahead 2 or 3 frames. Not super noticeable, but in the context of a sub-9 minute SMB2 run, it looks rather fishy.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I get the concept with the NES output framerate being different from the dvd recording framerate resulting in skipped frames. I assume the timing when playing back the dvd should still be correct though. I never noticed this in my own recordings, but it's maybe different in the pal-regions (and I can't say that I really have paid attention either).
As for the vhs, do you mean that it is stuff like playback speed, how tight the magnetic band is wound, how "stretched" it is etc that make the playback timing inaccurate ?
By the way, I just checked the tg scores for smb2 and saw that they have already accepted speedruns submitted in dvd-format for that game, but that probably belongs to another discussion...

[quote="cak"]"Frame sync issue" is referring to the NES video framerate clashing with the framerate of a DVD recorder. I've tested 3 different DVD recorders, and they all have a problem with NES recordings where every 10-20 sec, the video skips ahead 2 or 3 frames. Not super noticeable, but in the context of a sub-9 minute SMB2 run, it looks rather fishy.[/quote]

Thanks for the explanation. I think I get the concept with the NES output framerate being different from the dvd recording framerate resulting in skipped frames. I assume the timing when playing back the dvd should still be correct though. I never noticed this in my own recordings, but it's maybe different in the pal-regions (and I can't say that I really have paid attention either).
As for the vhs, do you mean that it is stuff like playback speed, how tight the magnetic band is wound, how "stretched" it is etc that make the playback timing inaccurate ? 
By the way, I just checked the tg scores for smb2 and saw that they have already accepted speedruns submitted in dvd-format for that game, but that probably belongs to another discussion...

cak

2010-09-06 12:46:24 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Quote:

As for the vhs, do you mean that it is stuff like playback speed, how tight the magnetic band is wound, how "stretched" it is etc that make the playback timing inaccurate ?

I honestly don't know. If I remember right, different brands of tape made a very slight difference, whereas the VCR, record mode, and position of the tape (completely rewound vs. middle) made no difference.

It's hardly surprising. Audio cassettes are even less accurate.

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By the way, I just checked the tg scores for smb2 and saw that they have already accepted speedruns submitted in dvd-format for that game, but that probably belongs to another discussion...

NTSC full completion, I know.

A bunch of TBCs are on eBay for $200, so we'll see what happens there.

andrewg

2011-02-13 03:18:40 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Alright, I'm speedrunning this again. I have a lot of work and a lot of testing to do. I think the 9:15 will be improved by quite some time now...

tbcslayer

2011-02-13 06:22:54 pm

nice andrew. looking foward for that run.

Rob M

2011-02-16 11:31:14 am

Who's cryin' now?

What kind of changes can we expect from the last run, or are those a secret?

andrewg

2011-02-16 12:03:59 pm

Some secrets await. Wink

I have a bunch of things to test. After TASing Mario2u, it opens my mind to more creativity for the console run.

Baron Dante

2011-02-16 01:58:05 pm

It's a BIG HEAD!

Wait, is this the SMB2, ot the SMB2W?

Zealie

2011-02-16 02:48:06 pm

Considering the titel and the first post it's obvious this is Super Mario Bros. 2.
Although I have no Idea what you mean with SMB2W.

YoungJ1997lol

2011-08-06 09:02:07 am

*I made my username when I was 13.

if nobody has said this yet, i will.
(ahem) Mario is faster in 1-1 than Luigi
(ps i'm new here)

Flip

2011-08-07 06:48:34 pm

1-Up!

Clearly, based on your 6 month necro-bump. Go read the Rules/FAQ please.

andrewg

2011-08-09 09:34:35 pm

working on this. Smiley

Sillygramcracker

2011-08-10 02:06:02 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

I would like to mention the nesbot demonstration of SMB2(US) was one of my favorite parts of the marathon. There's no way andrewg can fail now!

cak

2011-08-12 08:25:10 pm

Major congrats on your SMB record, Andrew.

andrewg

2012-06-04 08:50:20 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Melodia

2012-06-04 11:54:50 pm

Neat.
I love how these tricks are new (or at least new to me, heh) after 24 years.

Svenne

2012-06-05 05:17:59 am

Smörgåsbord

Aww Yeah, sweet! BrandonE on #SDA talked about doing IL's on this game so he better watch this! thumbsup

Can't wait for 4-1, my favorite level! Keep it up andrewg! Smiley

YoungJ1997lol

2012-06-05 07:05:14 am

*I made my username when I was 13.

keep going, andrewg! thumbsup

andrewg

2012-06-06 07:49:48 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Hey guys!

Alright, so I kinda gave up trying to improve Rush n' Attack. I think I will submit my 9:39 time because it's the best I can seem to manage right now.

Now it's time for Mario 2!!!! While I'd like to get back my Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros. 3 any% record times, I've realized that both of those runs are pretty optimized already and so maybe I should look into just making the Mario runs optimal rather than trying to hold the records. This is a much better plan I'd say.

With that, I realized that Mario 2 was really outdated now. After I did the 100% TAS, I have discovered a lot of new tricks to improve the 100% console run and also the any% run by a decent amount. I think I'm going to put my goal at a time of 8:40. I think I can manage it, I just need to practice my butt off. A 35 second improvement would be nice! Cheesy