Super Mario Bros. 2

2005-06-04 12:37:51 pm

The game is riddled with bugs, and you can get under 10 min using them. If you’re speedrunning, you should at least research the double jump since it's likely to be accepted by SDA.

Gorash

2005-06-04 05:09:55 pm

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I don't have the time for it now, but I'll try if I can get the double jump to work on my PAL version this evening... I always thought double jumping involved frame precision.

mjf314

2005-06-04 08:48:58 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I always thought double jumping involved frame precision.

I forgot the exact number, but you have a few frames when you can jump for it to work, not just one.

tmont

2005-06-04 11:10:10 pm

Not going to school today

Does anyone know where exactly it is advantageous to use double-jumping? I haven't done any extensive testing yet, but the only place I've found where it saves some time is in 1-1 in getting up to that upper hill. And can you double-jump off of walls and items (like mushroom blocks), or just enemies?

tmont

2005-06-05 04:32:40 am

Not going to school today

OK, the fastest route (besides doing the vine jump) is definitely taking the second vine in the first room, not the first one. With this route, I think a sub-3 minute 7-2 run is possible (I got 3:17 in my attempt, but I got unlucky vs. Wart).

And does anyone know if utilizing the double-jump glitch is allowed? When I use it, I never go outside the boundary of the level; I just use it to cross certain places with one jump instead of two jumps, and to get to the upper hill in 1-1 without power jumping.

tmont

2005-06-06 06:06:05 am

Not going to school today

I found some ways to substantially reduce the times in a few of the levels, so here are my new PRs (if anyone still cares):

1-1 0:59 (Toad)
1-2 0:36 (Toad)
1-3 0:18 (Toad)

4-1 0:44 (Toad)
4-2 0:43 (Princess)

6-1 1:05 (Toad)
6-2 0:55 (Princess)
6-3 1:07 (Toad)

7-1 1:17 (Toad)
7-2 3:17 (Toad)

In 1-1, if you do everything perfectly, you can get to Birdo a little earlier. And according to the Nesvideos forums, they figured out that Birdo's egg-spitting is dependent on the game's internal clock, and not when you enter the room, or any other random variable like that. So instead of me getting there right after he spits an egg, I get there right as he's spitting one, so that's why the time is improved by about 3 seconds (because I'm not standing there waiting for his first egg to be spit). I also use the double-jump once in that level to clear the waterfall with one jump.

In 6-2, instead of riding the Albatoss all the way across, some well timed leaps with Princess or Luigi can you get across faster. I use Princess because I hate Luigi's green pants (and also because I can't control his flailing little legs). That time could actually be cut down by about 5 seconds if Princess was stronger since I get to Birdo's room about 8-10 seconds earlier, but the Princess is so freaking weak at picking up the mushroom block that fighting him takes a lot longer than when I used Mario.

In 6-3, I know you can't abuse his faster running, and that he has to do to a power jump when you get to Triclyde's lair, but I like him better than Mario. I don't think there's a significant enough time waste that you can substantiate that using Mario is better than using Toad. If anything, it's only like a second, and for the sake of my comfort, I'm content with using Toad.

As for 7-1, I know Luigi can jump over the pillar to get to the cloud/sparks part (which would save about 5 seconds), but as I've stated before, I hate Luigi and anyone else who wears green pants.

I know 7-2 can be done in under three minutes without walking along the ceiling; you just need a perfect Wart battle (i.e. one where your vegetable are not destoyed in mid-air by his bubbles right when they come of the contraption). I think if you wait for like a second before going into the screen where you can actually see Wart, I think a vegetable will spit out, but Wart will not spit any bubbles. I'm guessing (hopefully, this is untested) that the interval between when the vegetables are emitted is bound to the internal clock, whereas Wart's bubble-spitting is dependent on whether or not he can see you. If this is true, then hesitating before entering his room will be just enough of a buffer so that it desynchs the bubbles and the vegetables. Or that may all be bogus...

As for the walking on the ceiling trick, I don't like it, because I think it's cheating (but mainly because I can't do the vine-jump with any kind of consistency).

And can someone tell me the legality of the double-jump? I know TG rejects it, but will SDA accept it? Thanks.

I found some ways to substantially reduce the times in a few of the levels, so here are my new PRs (if anyone still cares):

1-1 0:59 (Toad)
1-2 0:36 (Toad)
1-3 0:18 (Toad)

4-1 0:44 (Toad)
4-2 0:43 (Princess)

6-1 1:05 (Toad)
6-2 0:55 (Princess)
6-3 1:07 (Toad)

7-1 1:17 (Toad)
7-2 3:17 (Toad)

In 1-1, if you do everything perfectly, you can get to Birdo a little earlier.  And according to the Nesvideos forums, they figured out that Birdo's egg-spitting is dependent on the game's internal clock, and not when you enter the room, or any other random variable like that.  So instead of me getting there right after he spits an egg, I get there right as he's spitting one, so that's why the time is improved by about 3 seconds (because I'm not standing there waiting for his first egg to be spit).  I also use the double-jump once in that level to clear the waterfall with one jump.

In 6-2, instead of riding the Albatoss all the way across, some well timed leaps with Princess or Luigi can you get across faster.  I use Princess because I hate Luigi's green pants (and also because I can't control his flailing little legs).  That time could actually be cut down by about 5 seconds if Princess was stronger since I get to Birdo's room about 8-10 seconds earlier, but the Princess is so freaking weak at picking up the mushroom block that fighting him takes a lot longer than when I used Mario.

In 6-3, I know you can't abuse his faster running, and that he has to do to a power jump when you get to Triclyde's lair, but I like him better than Mario.  I don't think there's a significant enough time waste that you can substantiate that using Mario is better than using Toad.  If anything, it's only like a second, and for the sake of my comfort, I'm content with using Toad.

As for 7-1, I know Luigi can jump over the pillar to get to the cloud/sparks part (which would save about 5 seconds), but as I've stated before, I hate Luigi and anyone else who wears green pants.

I know 7-2 can be done in under three minutes without walking along the ceiling; you just need a perfect Wart battle (i.e. one where your vegetable are not destoyed in mid-air by his bubbles right when they come of the contraption).  I think if you wait for like a second before going into the screen where you can actually see Wart, I think a vegetable will spit out, but Wart will not spit any bubbles.  I'm guessing (hopefully, this is untested) that the interval between when the vegetables are emitted is bound to the internal clock, whereas Wart's bubble-spitting is dependent on whether or not he can see you.  If this is true, then hesitating before entering his room will be just enough of a buffer so that it desynchs the bubbles and the vegetables.  Or that may all be bogus...

As for the walking on the ceiling trick, I don't like it, because I think it's cheating (but mainly because I can't do the vine-jump with any kind of consistency).

And can someone tell me the legality of the double-jump?  I know TG rejects it, but will SDA accept it?  Thanks.

Radix

2005-06-06 06:37:55 am

I'm addicted to games

How exactly is this double jump performed?

tmont

2005-06-06 07:08:42 am

Not going to school today

If you jump right before you hit an enemy, the game allows you to perform another jump while in midair. You have to be pretty precise; apparently there's only a few frames where it's possible. David Wonn describes it like this at http://kontek.net/davidwonn/nes.html#S :

Use any character and run right toward an enemy at full speed. Just a split second before you think you're about to get hit, jump! With good timing you'll be able to jump yet again in midair! This technique is very useful for reaching high places, and now you can jump higher than you could with just a power squat jump! Try this out with Luigi to reach some places that you previously thought were unreachable.

tmont

2005-06-07 12:29:55 am

Not going to school today

Again, I've found ways to reduce the times in every level of World 6. Now I'm exclusively using Toad in every level except 4-2 (Princess) and 7-2 (Mario or Toad, haven't decided which I like better yet).

6-1 1:00 (Toad)
6-2 0:52 (Toad)
6-3 0:58 (Toad)

On 6-2, despite having to power jump at the very beginning, Toad's strength makes the Birdo battle much much easier (and faster, obviously). Princess or Luigi could probably complete the level faster, but you'd need a perfect Birdo battle, and the success rate of that is much lower than Toad's chance of a perfect battle (without the use of savestates).

On 6-3, apparently a sub-one-minute run is possible. It took me awhile, though, and was accomplished due to getting to Birdo's platform without power jumping.

Battling Wart is still my main time-waster, though. My theory on desynching the vegetable output and the bubble-spitting didn't pan out, so now apparently it's down to luck, and never missing when you have the chance.

Allantois

2005-06-07 04:25:52 am

The Unreal Authority.

sounds like this is coming together pretty good. when do you think you'll start working on recording the run?

KennyMan666

2005-06-07 06:42:07 am

Precursor

Quote:

On 6-3, apparently a sub-one-minute run is possible. It took me awhile, though, and was accomplished due to getting to Birdo's platform without power jumping.

What, you were power jumping up to his platform? >__>

I always jump on Hawkmouth and then up.

tmont

2005-06-07 08:38:22 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

What, you were power jumping up to his platform? >__>

I always jump on Hawkmouth and then up.

Yeah, just figured that out.

I'll probably start trying to record a run of this later this week. Hopefully I'll be done with this by Saturday.

Chico

2005-06-07 02:53:49 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

What kind of time are you aiming for?

tmont

2005-06-07 08:47:15 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

What kind of time are you aiming for?

Well, originally, I was just trying to record a decent run of this game since there's no video for it. But last night I actually beat the existing world record by 4 seconds (by my timing), and I screwed up a little bit. I think my absolute best would be around 11:40. I'd be happy with somewhere between 11:40 and 12:00. I'd imagine if you used Luigi for a 6-2 and 7-1, and used the ceiling shortcut in 7-2, you could get something like 11:00. But my goal is around 11:45.

Chico

2005-06-07 09:34:44 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I'll have to capture my 11:03 video sometime..I don't have a capture card right now though. I think my limit would be around 10:40 but I never feel like playing anymore.

tmont

2005-06-08 05:34:47 pm

Not going to school today

Quote:

I'll have to capture my 11:03 video sometime..I don't have a capture card right now though. I think my limit would be around 10:40 but I never feel like playing anymore.

Please do get that video posted. Mind listing your times for each level?

tmont

2005-06-08 06:46:31 pm

Not going to school today

I was a little dubious about getting a sub-11 time on this, so I did a little testing to see exactly how much time the ceiling shortcut saves. If you don't take it, you have to go through 3-4 more rooms (I wasn't counting), and you also have to fight Birdo to get the key. Depending on how good you are at fighting Birdo, from the time you reach the first room after the shortcut room, until you get the key from Birdo is around 1:00. I estimate that if you take the shortcut you run across the ceiling for like 5 seconds, drop down to Birdo's room and grab the key in like 5 seconds. So overall, taking the shortcut results in a 50 second save. I didn't realize that that much time was being saved. With that in mind, sub-11 is easiliy possible. I imagine a perfect run, using that shortcut, and using Luigi in 6-2, 6-3 and 7-1 will put the human limit at around 10:15-10:30. Without the shortcut, around 11:05-11:20. I estimate that using Luigi instead of someone else saves around 5 seconds (from my time) on 6-2, around 3-4 seconds on 6-3, and around 10 seconds on 7-1, for a grand total of around 20 seconds at the max. So, my route could be potentially improved by about a 1:10, which by my calculations, puts the total time at 10:17.

I was a little dubious about getting a sub-11 time on this, so I did a little testing to see exactly how much time the ceiling shortcut saves.  If you don't take it, you have to go through 3-4 more rooms (I wasn't counting), and you also have to fight Birdo to get the key.  Depending on how good you are at fighting Birdo, from the time you reach the first room after the shortcut room, until you get the key from Birdo is around 1:00.  I estimate that if you take the shortcut you run across the ceiling for like 5 seconds, drop down to Birdo's room and grab the key in like 5 seconds.  So overall, taking the shortcut results in a 50 second save.  I didn't realize that that much time was being saved.  With that in mind, sub-11 is easiliy possible.  I imagine a perfect run, using that shortcut, and using Luigi in 6-2, 6-3 and 7-1 will put the human limit at around 10:15-10:30.  Without the shortcut, around 11:05-11:20.  I estimate that using Luigi instead of someone else saves around 5 seconds (from my time) on 6-2, around 3-4 seconds on 6-3, and around 10 seconds on 7-1, for a grand total of around 20 seconds at the max.  So, my route could be potentially improved by about a 1:10, which by my calculations, puts the total time at 10:17.

Dybdal

2005-06-08 07:14:02 pm

Im Addicted to Games

This game really needs to be speedruned by someone.

I hope you go though with this.. im rooting for you Smiley

qqwref

2005-06-08 07:27:56 pm

I like this site name cause it's easy to remember.

By the way, over at the Bisqwit site the record's at 7:54... o_0 They must have some really crazy glitches.

tmont

2005-06-10 08:49:31 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

By the way, over at the Bisqwit site the record's at 7:54... o_0 They must have some really crazy glitches.

Yeah, I watched it the other day. Mainly it's a lot of frame perfect jumping. The main glitch they use is by pressing up and down at the same time or something while on a ladder. It shoots them up it as if they were running up the ladder. It's a pretty cool movie (if you're into that kind of thing).

I decided to go ahead and do a run with the ceiling shortcut. My best so far is 11:02 (roughly), but as usual, there's room for improvement. Is anybody else working on this run besides me?

Sleeper

2005-06-10 12:15:20 pm

I’ll give it a shot once I get the game, and I’ll probably have to Ebay it now. I still think under 10:00 is feasible, but not 100% sure. Right now, I can only estimate by subtracting from the 7:54 run times instead of adding actual speedrun times.

Dybdal

2005-06-14 06:29:10 pm

Im Addicted to Games

Is it possible to get an update on this run?

tmont

Edit history:

tmont: 2005-06-15 12:34:14 am

2005-06-15 12:28:33 am

Not going to school today

I'm still here. I just moved, but I'm still trying to get this run recorded. Due to VCR troubles, I haven't gotten this done as soon as I hoped. Hopefully in the next week or two, I will have something to submit, and even more hopefully, it will be awesome. Smiley

If anyone's curious about the time, I think it will be around or slightly under 11:00. I'm using the ceiling shortcut in 7-2, which saves about 45-50 seconds. I've been practicing the vine jump, and I can do it about 5 times out of 10. I seem to be able to do it much more consistently off of a vine or a ladder than I can off of the chain (like in 7-2). Maybe it's all pyschological...

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2005-06-18 05:36:06 pm

2005-06-18 05:35:20 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

do these times come from when you select the player or when you can control the player?
1-1 59 seconds, from when i pick my character.

i do not want to reveal my character

mjf314

Edit history:

mjf314: 2005-06-18 07:39:59 pm

2005-06-18 07:39:35 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

i do not want to reveal my character

Why not? Everything related to character choices in this game is already common knowledge.