Super Mario Bros. 2

2006-07-18 09:07:01 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Quote:

-I'm pretty sure 1-1 was not played as fast as possible, although it has been about a year since I played this seriously. If you're adhering to TG's arbitrary stance against double-jumping, then you probably want to use Luigi, like Scott did.

After comparing my emu video to Scott's, I see you are correct! I've tested Luigi before, but fell short of achieving the faster time.

Quote:

Good luck! Also, improve the no warps run, too, so that that hideous quality video can remove its taint from this site.

Thanks man. I already have a 9:32 on VHS, though the recording quality is subpar.
A warpless run is unlikely, but I'll consider it.

Frezy_man

2006-07-18 09:32:32 pm

bläää

Quote:

I already have a 9:32 on VHS

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2006-07-19 01:45:59 am

2006-07-19 01:43:43 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

just curious but why is it labeled "SMB2 fake 9-14"?

i cannot download this run for some reason.... Sad

did you have a really good triclyde battle or something?, thats the only way i could think that you could shave off 10 seconds, unless you had a perfect wart fight or you jumped up the latters very well.

cak

2006-07-19 03:04:19 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Quote:

just curious but why is it labeled "SMB2 fake 9-14"?

Because I used a save state every time I entered a different room.

Quote:

did you have a really good triclyde battle or something?, thats the only way i could think that you could shave off 10 seconds, unless you had a perfect wart fight or you jumped up the latters very well.

All of the above. If you watch the emulator movie, you'll see that 9:32 (SDA) is very possible.

andrewg

2006-07-19 03:47:42 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

makes a lot of sense. i'd like to beat your record, i'll try a couple times.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-07-21 09:27:14 am

2006-07-20 01:55:46 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

9:10 SDA (EDIT: obsoleted... keep reading)

1-1 played with Luigi, "impossible" Wart hit removed, some minor changes (including 2 necessitated by differing game behavior)
Emulation no more.. it's time to clean the VCR.

Enhasa

2006-07-20 03:36:27 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hey, nice going! I watched the first vid you posted, was going to say stuff, then realized there was another one. Tongue

First off, this is what I posted a couple pages back for possible route improvements to sdkess's run:

Quote:

- Don't throw the key in 6-1. I don't think I ever threw the key as a kid either; it's really easy.
- There's a faster way to kill the hydra in 6-3 with Toad. If you don't pick up the rightmost block, and you use other blocks, you can just jump over the gap right next to him, throw the block as soon as you turn around, and make it back to safety. This is not hard and lets you skip charge jumping.
- Don't need to wait to avoid the snifit in 7-1. I honestly don't know if this one was a route mistake, or if sdkess just wanted to be sure not to get hit, but I basically never slow down for this part.
- Why not use Toad in 7-2? I really can't think of why you'd want Luigi, but I'm sure sdkess had a reason?
- Don't throw the key in 7-2. I'm pretty sure everyone does it for normal playing, but it's faster to just go over the top. This is probably easier with Toad though.
- You can beat the door faster in 7-2 by taking a hit, since it chases you. Stay at the right edge and keep on throwing the block, and you'll take one hit and kill it very quickly.

You do all of these except the 2nd one and last one, but what you did instead were very good substitutes (using Mario and using Toad respectively). Have you tried killing Triclyde and Hawkmouth those ways? Doesn't hurt if you haven't, but maybe it's not worth the risk (especially for Hawkmouth).

tmont hit on everything I was going to say, and I'd like to add that contiguously here implies that it was segmented with rerecording (but not abuse like in a TAS).

1-1 was so much better the 2nd time, especially the bomb part. One thing that you should figure out is: do you care about submitting to Twin Galaxies? If you're not, it's better to use Toad and double jump whenever it's helpful, like in 1-1.

Hey, nice going! I watched the first vid you posted, was going to say stuff, then realized there was another one. :P

First off, this is what I posted a couple pages back for possible route improvements to sdkess's run:

[quote] - Don't throw the key in 6-1. I don't think I ever threw the key as a kid either; it's really easy.
- There's a faster way to kill the hydra in 6-3 with Toad. If you don't pick up the rightmost block, and you use other blocks, you can just jump over the gap right next to him, throw the block as soon as you turn around, and make it back to safety. This is not hard and lets you skip charge jumping.
- Don't need to wait to avoid the snifit in 7-1. I honestly don't know if this one was a route mistake, or if sdkess just wanted to be sure not to get hit, but I basically never slow down for this part.
- Why not use Toad in 7-2? I really can't think of why you'd want Luigi, but I'm sure sdkess had a reason?
- Don't throw the key in 7-2. I'm pretty sure everyone does it for normal playing, but it's faster to just go over the top. This is probably easier with Toad though.
- You can beat the door faster in 7-2 by taking a hit, since it chases you. Stay at the right edge and keep on throwing the block, and you'll take one hit and kill it very quickly.[/quote]
You do all of these except the 2nd one and last one, but what you did instead were [i]very good[/i] substitutes (using Mario and using Toad respectively). Have you tried killing Triclyde and Hawkmouth those ways? Doesn't hurt if you haven't, but maybe it's not worth the risk (especially for Hawkmouth).

tmont hit on everything I was going to say, and I'd like to add that contiguously here implies that it was segmented with rerecording (but not abuse like in a TAS).

1-1 was so much better the 2nd time, especially the bomb part. One thing that you should figure out is: do you care about submitting to Twin Galaxies? If you're not, it's better to use Toad and double jump whenever it's helpful, like in 1-1.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-07-20 08:17:41 pm

2006-07-20 08:14:44 pm

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Quote:

Have you tried killing Triclyde and Hawkmouth those ways? Doesn't hurt if you haven't, but maybe it's not worth the risk (especially for Hawkmouth).

Thanks. I'm glad you mentioned Hawkmouth. I've devised a method similar to the TAS method (1 throw = 2 hits) that would save a second or so. Unfortunately, the second is lost upon reaching Wart (at least in an emulator video).
Triclyde seems more or less optimal to me (TAS method not withstanding), though I've been wrong before.

Quote:

... do you care about submitting to Twin Galaxies?

Yep. Sorry.

Enhasa

2006-07-21 05:53:01 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

That's right, since Wart (and Birdo FWIW) are synched to the timer, either you'd save a whole lot of time, or more likely, none at all. So it's very possible the safer way is just as good.

About TG, I completely understand, because this is such a marquee TG type of record to hold: very famous NES Mario platformer.

Now, for your viewing pleasure, Triclyde fights! Mine sucks because I just took the first attempt and I originally wasn't going to compare them, so it's more like a demonstration. I get hit, mess up picking up blocks 2-3, mess up picking the final block, and honestly pick up the wrong set of blocks in the first place (shift everything right one block); I waste ~2.1 secs this way. But you can see the advantages are that you don't have to charge jump, and you can stay at the bottom, which saves time jumping up to the top (which is where the bullets are anyway).

For people having trouble watching the emu vids or just lazy, I include sdkess's SDA, cak's WIP, and donamerdragon's TAS. sdkess's and donamer's vids are a bit messed up because editing and direct stream copy don't really mix, but the times are correct.

sdkess with Toad (14.7 secs)
cak with Mario (12.8 secs)
enhasa with Toad (12.3 secs with mistakes... could go down to ~10.2)
donamerdragon with Luigi (9.6 secs)

Of course, sdkess's and cak's times are "improveable" too.

However, I just realized that the biggest advantage of Mario is not having to charge jump as soon as you get into the boss room. This saves ~1.4 secs, so given that you already know how to do it with Mario, relearning it with Toad for a possible improvement of ~1 sec max is most likely a pretty bad idea. Oh well.

That's right, since Wart (and Birdo FWIW) are synched to the timer, either you'd save a whole lot of time, or more likely, none at all. So it's very possible the safer way is just as good.

About TG, I completely understand, because this is such a marquee TG type of record to hold: very famous NES Mario platformer.

Now, for your viewing pleasure, Triclyde fights! Mine sucks because I just took the first attempt and I originally wasn't going to compare them, so it's more like a [i]demonstration[/i]. I get hit, mess up picking up blocks 2-3, mess up picking the final block, and honestly pick up the wrong set of blocks in the first place (shift everything right one block); I waste ~2.1 secs this way. But you can see the advantages are that you don't have to charge jump, and you can stay at the bottom, which saves time jumping up to the top (which is where the bullets are anyway).

For people having trouble watching the emu vids or just lazy, I include sdkess's SDA, cak's WIP, and donamerdragon's [b]TAS[/b]. sdkess's and donamer's vids are a bit messed up because editing and direct stream copy don't really mix, [i]but the times are correct[/i].

[url=http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/smb2-sdkess.avi]sdkess[/url] with Toad (14.7 secs)
[url=http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/smb2-cak.avi]cak[/url] with Mario (12.8 secs)
[url=http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/smb2-enhasa.avi]enhasa[/url] with Toad (12.3 secs with mistakes... could go down to ~10.2)
[url=http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/smb2-donamerdragon.avi]donamerdragon[/url] with Luigi (9.6 secs)

Of course, sdkess's and cak's times are "improveable" too.

However, I just realized that the biggest advantage of Mario is not having to charge jump as soon as you get into the boss room. This saves ~1.4 secs, so given that you already know how to do it with Mario, relearning it with Toad for a possible improvement of ~1 sec max is most likely a pretty bad idea. Oh well.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-08-16 12:32:28 am

2006-07-21 09:22:33 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

9:05 SDA (EDIT: obsoleted... keep reading)
7-2 replayed; otherwise identical to previous movie
I refined the first and second castle rooms and fought Hawkmouth much faster, resulting in an earlier vegetable. (!!!)

Thanks for posting those Enhasa. I'll try to watch your movie tomorrow.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-07-22 02:46:00 am

2006-07-22 02:44:21 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Hmm... those AVIs aren't working with DivX 6.2. Huh?

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2006-07-23 07:04:36 am

2006-07-23 07:01:45 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I watched your latest version and yes, taking the hit is faster, my stance all along. Wink

Oh sorry I didn't say. The bottom 3 vids are all encoded with h264. I figured that since SDA vids are also encoded that way now, along with all of the ones from TASvideos, everyone would know by now, sorry. :-[

I would have used divx for all of them, but the last one would be h264 anyway since I already had the avi from TASvideos. Oh and I didn't include any sound to save space/hassle, just so you don't think that's a problem on your end. Oh and to repeat, the first and last vids start at the wrong place because of direct stream copy issues, but the strategies are there and the timing is still correct.

Anyway, watch with MPlayer (my recommendation) or VLC (SDA's official stance) or ffdshow if you really need to use your current media player.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-07-25 04:30:26 am

2006-07-25 04:28:20 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Looks like your Triclyde method could actually save up to 3 seconds! It is difficult, though.
Good to know about h264, since I'll be encoding my own run.
I appreciate your help. Smiley

Enhasa

2006-07-28 07:10:13 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Hey, how's it going?

The only "difficult" part fighting Triclyde that way is in picking up the blocks correctly, so you don't have to hop back up. The actual jumping and throwing is like 100%. Smiley

About encoding, your two options are to do it yourself and follow the FAQ, or record it on VHS/DVD and mail it in. Since you would have to go through encoding all the different quality versions of the run, it's probably easier to just do the latter.

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-08-04 04:09:00 am

2006-07-29 04:10:53 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

I've set a goal for 9:20 or less. I'm fairly close, though not enough to start recording.
I'm trying desperately to perfect 7-2. I caught the early vegetable once, but stupidly botched the fight.

Encoding SMB2 myself shouldn't be a problem (assuming h264 is as easy to use as DivX and doesn't nag about weird video resolutions).

cak

Edit history:

cak: 2006-08-04 04:24:51 am

2006-08-04 04:21:05 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

I got a 9:18 on VHS w/ an imperfect 7-2. I'll probably submit the run to SDA only and improve it down the road.
After more emulator research, I can safely say that a 9-minute run is barely possible.

tmont

2006-08-15 01:43:33 am

Not going to school today

Quote:

I got a 9:18 on VHS w/ an imperfect 7-2. I'll probably submit the run to SDA only and improve it down the road.
After more emulator research, I can safely say that a 9-minute run is barely possible.

Can't wait to see it. My initial 10:55 run is looking more and more laughable as time goes on. And kind of embarrassing, too. Oh well. If you haven't already sent it in, perhaps I can guilt you into also sending in your Metroid run? Please?

(if you still have it, and you're the same cak from TG)

Frezy_man

Edit history:

Frezy_man: 2006-08-15 12:42:01 pm

2006-08-15 12:41:33 pm

bläää

wow! looking forward to see this. I couldn´t see much mistake and improvements in Scotts run. ones again a great run from him is beated... Congratulations!

so you are the one wo have the record on metroid on TG? Yeah.. it would be intresting to see that one too.. even more intresting. ( for me. )

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2006-08-15 04:05:13 pm

2006-08-15 03:41:46 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

The thing about this run is that I actually never tried to perfect it. I may try to beat this run by TG rules sometime in the near future. I am going to make a run right now.

I am aiming for sub 9 minutes under Tg rules... I dont know if that will be possible though, i'll have to test a lot of things.

I may never get to doing this run. I'm doing too many games all at once.

cak

2006-08-16 12:30:01 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Yep, I'm the same CAK from TG.
I'm iffy on sending the SMB2 run anywhere because it's obviously suboptimal and also because I'm waiting for the SDA recording FAQ to be updated. I'll definitely send in a 2-boss Metroid run (hope Nate's reading this). I think I recorded over the 1-boss run, but it wasn't the best anyway.
Good luck Andrew, and watch THIS. 7-2 in particular.

andrewg

2006-08-16 01:36:08 am

Hi! I'm andrewg!

it's funny that a few weeks ago I was working on a secret metroid run, but I decided to hold off on that, my goal was to beat the TG time which is yours right?

I cannot seem to watch that video, but I bet I know a lot of the tricks you pull off. I think I will play each level individually and figure out the fastest way for each one.

yeah, but if I do submit a smb2 run to SDA I'm pretty sure It will be under 9:00 by Tg rules. at least that is still what I am aiming for. 9:18 sounds incredible, I'm just hoping i'll be able to beat that. I haven't been having too much success trying to beat the smb3 run because it is a very good time just as this smb2 run will be. i'll keep trying though.

cak

2006-08-16 06:53:02 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

The video should work if you have the latest version of FCEUltra from TASVideos and the right rom.
FWIW, my best unrecorded Metroid time is approx 16:48 SDA. I'm not really interested in competing on that variation anymore, though.

cak

2006-08-31 04:22:43 am

twitch.tv/ccaakk

Well I posted my 9:18 HERE. The vid's supposed to be normal quality, though the sound sucks and the deinterlacing is out the window. I'll eventually record a better run for SDA, but until then...

DK64_MASTER

Edit history:

DK64_MASTER: 2006-08-31 05:38:02 am

2006-08-31 05:37:51 am

Very impressive, almost looks tool assisted, if not for the final wart veg miss, and a few bumps here and there. (that's a complement)

andrewg

2006-08-31 06:21:23 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

wow, you must have spent quite a bit of time on that. the only level I can complete faster than you did is 7-1. In 7-1 I am crazily jumping up the ladders. That was very nice! Smiley

Dont think I could beat it unless I spent a lot more time on the game.