Super C

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2008-12-15 02:12:46 pm

2008-12-15 09:15:38 am

Master-88

Ok guys:

18.34

30-more seconds better than my good previous run. I just fixed most things what i did wrong my previous run:
Level 1: I got F-weapon. I hate that and actually it save me about 5-6 seconds.
Level 3: I avoid all ducks and i skip every cannons without stopping my run
Level 3 Boss was quite bit better. But this is not my best fight even it is faster.

Level 6: Mouth mini boss is done using WR-method
Level 7: Little bit more risks. I don,t still want got huge risk like Jim did, because i don,t see it make level much faster to beat and i definitely will die.

Level 8: I avoid some stupid errors what i did last time. I still got some minor errors here.
Level 8 boss awesome boss fight ever. I kill it without need avoid any laser shots. I using power gun like TAS because i hate F-weapon and power gun is almost as fast as. Even faster on TAS conditions, but as well very good on console.

****
-My intentions
-I don,t still avoid turrets in level 5. It looks quite crazy, but really guys save this enought time?
-Level 3 Mini boss is using my own style. I watch Jim method and i don,t think it is any faster than my method.
-Level 6 blue/spider corridor. I don,t really know working style run this through without stop on PAL versio, but i don,t never managed it. So i use my little bit slower way go through this. Wo i hate that place. This ruin many, many my speedrun attempts.
-Last intention was i sometimes shots enemys my behind. I just want avoid lags. These makes game run very slowly. I even think it is sometimes faster kills enemys your behind than run too slowly.

Anyway. Video come later. I just try send that in SDA. I hope there is enought potential and Mike can accept that. I don,t really know can i beat that time, because it is quite good. I don,t see major time losts with my run.

It is still very difficult say how much this is slower than Jim run. I think my run includes some better spots too. I think my boss level 4 was even couple seconds faster than Jim fight.

But anyway this is PAL run. It is still good run.

EDIT:
I again send PM from Mike. This run is posted on youtube but it is private yet. I just look want he look at my run and tell me is it good enought now. I watch my own run twice and i´ve to say it was very good run. It is not flawless but it is good.

I just not find much way improve that. Sub 18 is maybe possible but it requires just almost perfect run. But personally i am very happy with this.

EDIT 2***************

Ok i public my run. It is available on youtube.
Mike are not answer my message yet. I don,t sure want he accept this. But if someone want watch it. It is possible now.

I really hope it is enought good. Roll Eyes

Part 1

Part 2

Ok guys:

18.34

30-more seconds better than my good previous run. I just fixed most things what i did wrong my previous run:
Level 1: I got F-weapon. I hate that and actually it save me about 5-6 seconds.
Level 3: I avoid all ducks and i skip every cannons without stopping my run
Level 3 Boss was quite bit better. But this is not my best fight even it is faster.

Level 6: Mouth mini boss is done using WR-method
Level 7: Little bit more risks. I don,t still want got huge risk like Jim did, because i don,t see it make level much faster to beat and i definitely will die.

Level 8: I avoid some stupid errors what i did last time. I still got some minor errors here. 
Level 8 boss awesome boss fight ever. I kill it without need avoid any laser shots. I using power gun like TAS because i hate F-weapon and power gun is almost as fast as. Even faster on TAS conditions, but as well very good on console.

****
-My intentions
-I don,t still avoid turrets in level 5. It looks quite crazy, but really guys save this enought time? 
-Level 3 Mini boss is using my own style. I watch Jim method and i don,t think it is any faster than my method.
-Level 6 blue/spider corridor. I don,t really know working style run this through without stop on PAL versio, but i don,t never managed it. So i use my little bit slower way go through this. Wo i hate that place. This ruin many, many my speedrun attempts.
-Last intention was i sometimes shots enemys my behind. I just want avoid lags. These makes game run very slowly. I even think it is sometimes faster kills enemys your behind than run too slowly.

Anyway. Video come later. I just try send that in SDA. I hope there is enought potential and Mike can accept that. I don,t really know can i beat that time, because it is quite good. I don,t see major time losts with my run.

It is still very difficult say how much this is slower than Jim run. I think my run includes some better spots too. I think my boss level 4 was even couple seconds faster than Jim fight.

But anyway this is PAL run. It is still good run.

EDIT:
I again send PM from Mike. This run is posted on youtube but it is private yet. I just look want he look at my run and tell me is it good enought now. I watch my own run twice and i´ve to say it was very good run. It is not flawless but it is good.

I just not find much way improve that. Sub 18 is maybe possible but it requires just almost perfect run. But personally i am very happy with this.

EDIT 2***************

Ok i public my run. It is available on youtube. 
Mike are not answer my message yet. I don,t sure want he accept this. But if someone want watch it. It is possible now.

I really hope it is enought good. ::)

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-gimyr5irU&feature=channel_page
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYLbqxLYSg0&feature=channel_page

Hattori HANZo

2008-12-15 03:45:13 pm

contraddicted

If shaving off 30 seconds just takes about a day there are two possibles causes:
[x] Too less to do in your actual life
[x] You're not ready for submission Wink

This one looks much better, especially in the first three levels Smiley

In Area 4 e.g. you could easily save some seconds by not stopping to kill the fixed guns and avoid hestitating at some points. There's still the mess with the spiderpots, some positioning problems while shooting downwards through the green alien goo and so one. You're done with the big stuff, now it's time for the details.

I say if you keep on training for some days or weeks you'll get below 18 minutes Smiley

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2008-12-15 04:58:01 pm

2008-12-15 03:55:16 pm

Master-88

Yeah it always can be done faster. But as well Jim runs includes some mistakes.
Yeah these things i dont, really believe guns level 5 cost me lot, i can go through guns almost without stopping. Only couple shy seconds make this level safety.

Yeah im not good with spider pods. And level 7 started nervous me much, because survivor alive in level 6 make my very nervous. I wait what Mike say with this run.

This game started make me extremely tired when i need try improve my amazing time. Im not really know can i ever break amazing sub 18 minutes goal. And yeah this take me only couple day drop 30-seconds. But i am spending hours/weeks playing that game.

Even level 5 guns and level 7 pods is done perfectly i believe it is not enought yet got under 18 minutes.

mikwuyma

2008-12-15 10:19:48 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

EvilJogga has a point Master-88, you are firing out these runs awfully fast, and I also think you have room to improve. Which brings me to my main point.

I wouldn't accept this run, and I'm positive other verifiers wouldn't accept this run either. You're still not speedrunning the game, you're doing a fast playthrough, stopping during risky parts and playing it safe when you feel it's necessary. You need to go all out and take every possible chance to go faster. Don't turn around to shoot enemies unless if it is absolutely necessary (turning around to shoot enemies was one reason why vgmr's first run was rejected), and DON'T pause and take your time shooting out every single turret or crawler alien because pausing is safer. Pausing is safer, but it's also much slower and painful to watch.

Yes, you will have to restart a lot more to make a successful run this way, but the end product will also look so much better. I am not writing this to be mean, I am writing this so you can improve and make a worthy run.

I can give you more specific comments about each stage if you would like. I will say that the final boss goes down faster if you collect the flame shot and spam it once he is vulnerable.

EvilJogga has a point Master-88, you are firing out these runs awfully fast, and I also think you have room to improve. Which brings me to my main point.

I wouldn't accept this run, and I'm positive other verifiers wouldn't accept this run either. You're still not speedrunning the game, you're doing a fast playthrough, stopping during risky parts and playing it safe when you feel it's necessary. [b]You need to go all out and take every possible chance to go faster[/b]. Don't turn around to shoot enemies unless if it is absolutely necessary (turning around to shoot enemies was one reason why vgmr's first run was rejected), and DON'T pause and take your time shooting out every single turret or crawler alien because pausing is safer. Pausing is safer, but it's also much slower and painful to watch.

Yes, you will have to restart a lot more to make a successful run this way, but the end product will also look so much better. I am not writing this to be mean, I am writing this so you can improve and make a worthy run.

I can give you more specific comments about each stage if you would like. I will say that the final boss goes down faster if you collect the flame shot and spam it once he is vulnerable.

MASTER-88

2008-12-16 01:27:53 am

Master-88

Yeah this looks nothing is enought. Tongue

Quote:

You're still not speedrunning the game, you're doing a fast playthrough, stopping during risky parts and playing it safe when you feel it's necessary.

There is only couple example. Yeah i don,t want make 99,9% suicide since i beat level 6. Yeah if you not called that speedrun, this is still one best time all around. This is very good playthrough.

Quote:

(turning around to shoot enemies was one reason why vgmr's first run was rejected), and DON'T pause and take your time shooting out every single turret or crawler alien because pausing is safer. Pausing is safer, but it's also much slower and painful to watch.

But sometimes for example levels 3 & 5 there is good reason shots enemys your behind, because huge lags make you run so slowly. It sometimes stop/glitches your game too. I think it is sometimes faster shots enemys your behind and shots back. Wink

I am glad see you guys are rejected vgmr run once. What his clear time was when you rejected it?

Quote:

Yes, you will have to restart a lot more to make a successful run this way, but the end product will also look so much better. I am not writing this to be mean, I am writing this so you can improve and make a worthy run.

Yeah more resets i check out back my both two previous runs take me about 50-75 resets total, it is quite much and at least 6-resets total happen on level 6. This looks nothing is enought in SDA. But ok i will try drop my time more, but i don,t believe you are never happy enought my run.

Quote:

I can give you more specific comments about each stage if you would like

If you have enought free time make it. I definitely read it and try learn with this.

Quote:

I will say that the final boss goes down faster if you collect the flame shot and spam it once he is vulnerable.

This time difference is very minor one. F-weapon make level 8 much more dangerous. It is too slow kill enemys. But yeah it would be 2-3 seconds faster against last boss. But i just like first weapon most.

Yeah this looks nothing is enought. :P

[quote]You're still not speedrunning the game, you're doing a fast playthrough, stopping during risky parts and playing it safe when you feel it's necessary.[/quote]

There is only couple example. Yeah i don,t want make 99,9% suicide since i beat level 6. Yeah if you not called that speedrun, this is still one best time all around. This is very good playthrough.

[quote](turning around to shoot enemies was one reason why vgmr's first run was rejected), and DON'T pause and take your time shooting out every single turret or crawler alien because pausing is safer. Pausing is safer, but it's also much slower and painful to watch.
[/quote]

But sometimes for example levels 3 & 5 there is good reason shots enemys your behind, because huge lags make you run so slowly. It sometimes stop/glitches your game too. I think it is sometimes faster shots enemys your behind and shots back. ;)

I am glad see you guys are rejected vgmr run once. What his clear time was when you rejected it?

[quote]Yes, you will have to restart a lot more to make a successful run this way, but the end product will also look so much better. I am not writing this to be mean, I am writing this so you can improve and make a worthy run.
[/quote]

Yeah more resets i check out back my both two previous runs take me about 50-75 resets total, it is quite much and at least 6-resets total happen on level 6. This looks nothing is enought in SDA. But ok i will try drop my time more, but i don,t believe you are never happy enought my run.

[quote]I can give you more specific comments about each stage if you would like[/quote]

If you have enought free time make it. I definitely read it and try learn with this.

[quote]I will say that the final boss goes down faster if you collect the flame shot and spam it once he is vulnerable.[/quote]

This time difference is very minor one. F-weapon make level 8 much more dangerous. It is too slow kill enemys. But yeah it would be 2-3 seconds faster against last boss. But i just like first weapon most.

mikwuyma

2008-12-16 08:51:01 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Vgmr's first run was 14:26.

There might be only a couple of places where you slow down to a crawl (stage 5 and 6 come to mind), but you lose a lot of time in those places. Also, there are a lot of places where you stop for short periods of time.

I know that turning around to shoot enemies is sometimes necessary to prevent lag, but most of the time you turned around to shoot enemies, there were only a couple of enemies behind you.

The last boss: It's not very difficult to go through the final stage with the F weapon. The enemies don't swarm you, and you can still kill the ones who come from behind by jumping and firing downwards.

Number of resets: 50-75 resets is not a lot of resets. My Zero 2 run (a run I know you've watched), took me hundreds, maybe thousands of attempts to complete. I also don't care how many attempts you've spent as long as if your run is fast.

It's not that nothing is enough, the fact you're not holding yourself up to high standards is what is holding you back. You're right, your run is a very good playthrough, but it's not a good speedrun because you're not speeding through everything.

I will write more specific comments later, but I do remember your 3rd stage midboss and boss battles being very slow. When fighting the midboss, you should stay on the right so the midboss fires faster (you can't damage the midboss until it fires).

Vgmr's first run was 14:26.

There might be only a couple of places where you slow down to a crawl (stage 5 and 6 come to mind), but you lose a lot of time in those places. Also, there are a lot of places where you stop for short periods of time.

I know that turning around to shoot enemies is sometimes necessary to prevent lag, but most of the time you turned around to shoot enemies, there were only a couple of enemies behind you.

The last boss: It's not very difficult to go through the final stage with the F weapon. The enemies don't swarm you, and you can still kill the ones who come from behind by jumping and firing downwards.

Number of resets: 50-75 resets is not a lot of resets. My Zero 2 run (a run I know you've watched), took me hundreds, maybe thousands of attempts to complete. I also don't care how many attempts you've spent as long as if your run is fast.

It's not that nothing is enough, the fact you're not holding yourself up to high standards is what is holding you back. You're right, your run is a very good playthrough, but it's not a good speedrun because you're not speeding through everything.

I will write more specific comments later, but I do remember your 3rd stage midboss and boss battles being very slow. When fighting the midboss, you should stay on the right so the midboss fires faster (you can't damage the midboss until it fires).

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2008-12-16 11:06:54 am

2008-12-16 10:24:43 am

Master-88

Thanks Mike. You are right these methods really save time

This is fun i managed beat my time by couple seconds (18.29 im not got presice timing). I just got 4 deaths with this run.
1-Mouth kill me on level 6. This happen me every fucking attempt a today. About all 5-attempt ruined here, i still continued, because i can got S-weapon back.
2-Level 8. I accidentally grap L-weapon. This weapon is just shit and i die 3 more times here. I lost rhythm and bad luck follow me everywhere.

But yeah this time i got alot great risks.

1-My 3rd level mini boss was identical as fast as Jim fight, using his method.
2-I skip turrets level 5
3-Level 7 I skip same amount spider eggs like Jim did his run. Wow this make me lot close calls, but yeah it save time.

I am actually quite surprised how much these time savers save time. Even i make 4-deaths i beat my last run by couple seconds. This looks without dying i have potential got at least 17.45 or under. We look forvard is it good enought in the site. I might try, because level 8 was totally crap with this run.

Quote:

The last boss: It's not very difficult to go through the final stage with the F weapon. The enemies don't swarm you, and you can still kill the ones who come from behind by jumping and firing downwards.

I have real trouble with this. If bad luck happen F-weapon is too slow firing everywhere in at same time. It is just luck survive here. I looks forvard use i that method. But you can,t rejected my run only with this reason if i use default gun against last boss, because time difference is very minor IMO.

Quote:

Vgmr's first run was 14:26.

This started scared me. Shocked

Seriously you reject his 14.26 run? This sounds lot this game has very hardcore stanard.

Many other games stanards are much more easier to reach. For Example Castlevania COTM, many times are quite crap.

EDIT:
What do you thinking is 17.45 or under good enought next goal?
This will probably are accept.

Thanks Mike. You are right these methods really save time

This is fun i managed beat my time by couple seconds (18.29 im not got presice timing). I just got 4 deaths with this run. 
1-Mouth kill me on level 6. This happen me every fucking attempt a today. About all 5-attempt ruined here, i still continued, because i can got S-weapon back. 
2-Level 8. I accidentally grap L-weapon. This weapon is just shit and i die 3 more times here. I lost rhythm and bad luck follow me everywhere.

But yeah this time i got alot great risks.

1-My 3rd level mini boss was identical as fast as Jim fight, using his method.
2-I skip turrets level 5
3-Level 7 I skip same amount spider eggs like Jim did his run. Wow this make me lot close calls, but yeah it save time.

I am actually quite surprised how much these time savers save time. Even i make 4-deaths i beat my last run by couple seconds. This looks without dying i have potential got at least 17.45 or under. We look forvard is it good enought in the site. I might try, because level 8 was totally crap with this run.

[quote]The last boss: It's not very difficult to go through the final stage with the F weapon. The enemies don't swarm you, and you can still kill the ones who come from behind by jumping and firing downwards.[/quote]

I have real trouble with this. If bad luck happen F-weapon is too slow firing everywhere in at same time. It is just luck survive here. I looks forvard use i that method. But you can,t rejected my run only with this reason if i use default gun against last boss, because time difference is very minor IMO.

[quote]Vgmr's first run was 14:26.[/quote]

This started scared me. :o Seriously you reject his 14.26 run?  This sounds lot this game has very hardcore stanard.

Many other games stanards are much more easier to reach. For Example Castlevania COTM, many times are quite crap.

EDIT:
What do you thinking is 17.45 or under good enought next goal? 
This will probably are accept.

mikwuyma

2008-12-16 11:31:01 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

17:45 sounds like most of the mistakes you made in your current run would be ironed out, but I can't really tell until I see a run with that time Wink

Hattori HANZo

2008-12-16 12:06:44 pm

contraddicted

Quote from MASTER-88:

I am actually quite surprised how much these time savers save time.
[...]
EDIT:
What do you thinking is 17.45 or under good enought next goal?
This will probably are accept.

To quote my mother: "I told you so!" ;D;D;D
You don't have to imitate anything from a current run, but most of the time in games as simple as Super C, some certain strategies are just the best there is. So if Jim managed to just don't stop walking in a level, you're most likely better off doing the same. Anything else would be a slowdown - except things like luck manipulation, that usually can't be performed by human players.

In case of accepting or rejecting a run it depends on the verifiers mostly. And I guess they'll suggest rejection if there's already a similar category (NTSC) that is harder (game runs faster) and has a way better run. So if the execution doesn't come close to Jim's in terms of perfection and shown skill chances for the run to get accepted are rather bad.
Things like stability issues of the PAL version are another thing. So if the game crashes with to many sprites on the screen, loosing a second for turning around and killing enemies has to be treated differently.

When it comes to the standards by which a run is measured I guess there are two things:
One thing surely is the comparison to runs already up on SDA or elsewhere.
The second is the verfier's skill. If I'd have to verify a run and would see it isn't played better and merely faster than I can do myself without much trying, I'd go for rejection. And as Super C is short and verifiers usually have played the game they verify long and often, standards surely aren't low.

You got your time from over 20 minutes and seeing sub 18:00 as impossible for you down to 18:29 and you see 17:45 as reachable now. If you keep trying and improving I'm sure you'll get way closer to 17:00 than you now think it's possible. Do not underestimate the impact of training and routine Smiley

[quote="MASTER-88"]
I am actually quite surprised how much these time savers save time.
[...]
EDIT:
What do you thinking is 17.45 or under good enought next goal? 
This will probably are accept.
[/quote]

To quote my mother: "I told you so!" ;D;D;D
You don't have to imitate anything from a current run, but most of the time in games as simple as Super C, some certain strategies are just the best there is. So if Jim managed to just don't stop walking in a level, you're most likely better off doing the same. Anything else would be a slowdown - except things like luck manipulation, that usually can't be performed by human players.

In case of accepting or rejecting a run it depends on the verifiers mostly. And I guess they'll suggest rejection if there's already a similar category (NTSC) that is harder (game runs faster) and has a way better run. So if the execution doesn't come close to Jim's in terms of perfection and shown skill chances for the run to get accepted are rather bad.
Things like stability issues of the PAL version are another thing. So if the game crashes with to many sprites on the screen, loosing a second for turning around and killing enemies has to be treated differently.

When it comes to the standards by which a run is measured I guess there are two things:
One thing surely is the comparison to runs already up on SDA or elsewhere.
The second is the verfier's skill. If I'd have to verify a run and would see it isn't played better and merely faster than I can do myself without much trying, I'd go for rejection. And as Super C is short and verifiers usually have played the game they verify long and often, standards surely aren't low.

You got your time from over 20 minutes and seeing sub 18:00 as impossible for you down to 18:29 and you see 17:45 as reachable now. If you keep trying and improving I'm sure you'll get way closer to 17:00 than you now think it's possible. Do not underestimate the impact of training and routine :)

MASTER-88

2008-12-16 03:38:01 pm

Master-88

18.03:

Part 1

Part 2

This was quite close my goal. I just want say this is 31 seconds faster than previous video. It looks much better. But there is still rooms what i can improve.

I was quite dissappoint level 4. Because this is my one favorite level on speedrun and mostly beat it quite cool. I just make some stupid mistakes here.

Level 5 cannon skip is using, but quite bad luck with enemy locations so i need dodge couple bullets.

Level 8 yeah more risk is possible to get.

I trying use almost all trick what i remember Jim use his run. I really see this 17.45 is absolutely master goal on PAL versio. This was good run. I hope Mike & other guys check out this. Overall i spend 6 hours today with this. I can,t remember how many time i erased my failed attempts my disc. How many time i fuck up my run on level 6.

Level 6 is just main reason why i hate try improve my run. This level is run killer. Angry

When i understand what Mike say. It is not enought yet. 17.45 can be my last goal, and this run must be looks so cool. I believe everything under 17.30 nothing happen on PAL.

18.03:

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcbvfrp0SI4

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk86Fl8XPq8

This was quite close my goal. I just want say this is 31 seconds faster than previous video. It looks much better. But there is still rooms what i can improve.

I was quite dissappoint level 4. Because this is my one favorite level on speedrun and mostly beat it quite cool. I just make some stupid mistakes here.

Level 5 cannon skip is using, but quite bad luck with enemy locations so i need dodge couple bullets.

Level 8 yeah more risk is possible to get.

I trying use almost all trick what i remember Jim use his run. I really see this 17.45 is absolutely master goal on PAL versio. This was good run. I hope Mike & other guys check out this. Overall i spend 6 hours today with this. I can,t remember how many time i erased my failed attempts my disc. How many time i fuck up my run on level 6.

Level 6 is just main reason why i hate try improve my run. This level is run killer. >:(

When i understand what Mike say. It is not enought yet. 17.45 can be my last goal, and this run must be looks so cool. I believe everything under 17.30 nothing happen on PAL.

Hattori HANZo

2008-12-16 04:36:37 pm

contraddicted

If I could I'd prove that something very near to or even below 17 minutes is possible. 17:30 is definitely no limit for the PAL version that is beyond human abilities.

Go for 17:45 and you'll see there's enough room for far less than 17:30 Wink

If you keep your pace up you'll be there in about seven hours anyway Cheesy

You should take a close look at the mointain level of the NTSC run. There are still some save to use tactics you should adopt. If you don't have done this by now, think of practicing that annoying part after the randomly appearing mouths on emulator. If you find the right way to avoid stopping and walking diagonally that much you'll have saved about 6-7 seconds with that alone!

I may be too worse of a player and too less of an honoured member here to say that, but that's time lying fallow.

MASTER-88

2008-12-16 04:56:05 pm

Master-88

I mean 17.30 are max human limit. And it is definitely as good as Jim run.
Any faster run requires almost unhuman lucks. Enemys must located right places your every levels. For example level 6 mouths. These appeared always different spot you can,t know it. There is no real reason practice that. Only what you need is luck and sometimes hyper fast reflex can save you.

As well this blue corridor in level 6 kill me so many time. I am quite sure this is definitely versio difference. You can,t run that through without stop on PAL versio. I don,t see any chance with this.

Quote:

You should take a close look at the mointain level of the NTSC run. There are still some save to use tactics you should adopt

Yeah. But this is not my best level today. I am completed it some seconds faster my failed attempts. But i will try got more risk if i try improve that run in future.

Quote:

If you find the right way to avoid stopping and walking diagonally that much you'll have saved about 6-7 seconds with that alone!

Best of luck. I am quite sure totally perfect level without walking diagonally requires just every enemys with right spots. It is sometimes just important walking little diagonally so you can survive alive.

But yeah this my 18.03 run looks quite good. Yeah there is some rooms i can drop my time little bit. But i don,t believe next time drop is huge like this. And yeah this can be take twice more longer to reach.

I mean 17.30 are max human limit. And it is definitely as good as Jim run.
Any faster run requires almost unhuman lucks. Enemys must located right places your every levels. For example level 6 mouths. These appeared always different spot you can,t know it. There is no real reason practice that. Only what you need is luck and sometimes hyper fast reflex can save you.

As well this blue corridor in level 6 kill me so many time. I am quite sure this is definitely versio difference. You can,t run that through without stop on PAL versio.  I don,t see any chance with this.

[quote]You should take a close look at the mointain level of the NTSC run. There are still some save to use tactics you should adopt[/quote]

Yeah. But this is not my best level today. I am completed it some seconds faster my failed attempts. But i will try got more risk if i try improve that run in future.

[quote]If you find the right way to avoid stopping and walking diagonally that much you'll have saved about 6-7 seconds with that alone!
[/quote]

Best of luck.  I am quite sure totally perfect level without walking diagonally requires just every enemys with right spots. It is sometimes just important walking little diagonally so you can survive alive.

But yeah this my 18.03 run looks quite good. Yeah there is some rooms i can drop my time little bit. But  i don,t believe next time drop is huge like this. And yeah this can be take twice more longer to reach.

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2008-12-17 11:03:02 am

2008-12-17 10:36:03 am

Master-88

I just timed some versio differences. I really surprise how much slower PAL versio is. Shocked

Only level 4-elevator (auto scroll parts) parts are 22 seconds slower on PAL versio. It is hard say precise timing other places of the game. But this looks Elevators up took 1 minutes 40 seconds on US versio and 2.02 on PAL-versio.

This looks PAL is alot slower to beat when every levels are 15-30 seconds slower to beat on PAL.
This looks if every levels took only 15-seconds longer on PAL it is only total 2-minutes.

But as well longer levels like level 4-will be take at least 30 seconds longer to beat on PAL than US. This really looks between 17.30-17.45 are quite max limit on PAL. I´ll try timed some boss starting animations yet. For example when last boss start/die it looks it took much longer on PAL.

I see other versio difference between Super-C & Probotector 2: These don,t takes times but it is just interesting********************************
Versio differences
US
-There is 10-life cheats
-Bubbles on level 4 elevator you can see bubbles before these attack.
-Different graphic
-Faster to beat

PAL
-There is 30 life cheats
-Bubbles on level 4 elevator you cannot see bubbles before these attack
-different graphic
-Slower to beat
-I think level 6 blue/spider corridor looks this not possible run through without stop on PAL this looks enemys run much faster than you.

I will try make some timing yet. I guess base levels looks alot slower on PAL. It is quite impossible timed how much PAL really is slower. But i believe it difference is between 17.45-30. 3.30-4 minutes

Timed: Last boss rise and die animation:
Difference this only is 6-seconds total.

I just timed some versio differences. I really surprise how much slower PAL versio is. :o

Only level 4-elevator (auto scroll parts) parts are 22 seconds slower on PAL versio.  It is hard say precise timing other places of the game. But this looks Elevators up took 1 minutes 40 seconds on US versio and 2.02 on PAL-versio.

This looks PAL is alot slower to beat when every levels are 15-30 seconds slower to beat on PAL. 
This looks if every levels took only 15-seconds longer on PAL it is only total 2-minutes.

But as well longer levels like level 4-will be take at least 30 seconds longer to beat on PAL than US. This really looks  between 17.30-17.45 are quite max limit on PAL. I´ll try timed some boss starting animations yet. For example when last boss start/die it looks it took much longer on PAL.

I see other versio difference between Super-C & Probotector 2: These don,t takes times but it is just interesting********************************
Versio differences
US
-There is 10-life cheats
-Bubbles on level 4 elevator you can see bubbles before these attack.
-Different graphic
-Faster to beat

PAL
-There is 30 life cheats
-Bubbles on level 4 elevator you cannot see bubbles before these attack 
-different graphic
-Slower to beat
-I think level 6 blue/spider corridor looks this not possible run through without stop on PAL this looks enemys run much faster than you.

I will try make some timing yet. I guess base levels looks alot slower on PAL. It is quite impossible timed how much PAL really is slower. But i believe it difference is between 17.45-30. 3.30-4 minutes

Timed: Last boss rise and die animation:
Difference this only is 6-seconds total.

Hattori HANZo

2008-12-17 04:51:01 pm

contraddicted

Quote from MASTER-88:

Level 5 cannon skip is using, but quite bad luck with enemy locations so i need dodge couple bullets.

Level 8 yeah more risk is possible to get.
[...]
Level 6 is just main reason why i hate try improve my run. This level is run killer. Angry

[...]
I believe everything under 17.30 nothing happen on PAL.

You still stopped to kill one of the cannons. And at exactly 0:35 in the last video you posted (patz 2) you're jumping up to dodge bullets. Try to jump to next plattform immediately. I tried this myself and it works. The plattform you have to land on is a bit lower than the one you're jumping off of.

And Level 6 definitely is a run killer. But I meant practicing that corridor part, where enemies come from the left and the right, not the part before that with the randomly appearing enemies.
MAybe here's even a version difference between the ROM I use and your catridge. On the ROM I can manage it to walk nearly straight through the corridor with minimal diagonal movements.

And I just did a run up to level 8 in 14:45 on that PAL ROM. Then I got stuck as I didn't die because of that invincibility cheat Grin

If I add the time you took for level 8 I end up with something around 16:50 as final time. Although I was invincible I lost about 15 seconds up to level 8 by missing jumps etc.
So I guess the TAS would be able to end up somewhere between 15:30 and 16:30, depending on how much more than just don't stop walking is possible in Super C.
But if there isn't a difference between your catridge and my ROM, speed should just differ by the usual 20\16,6%. Of course this doesn't take changed in game mechanics into consideration. If there's really no way on your version to walk straight through that corridor full of enemies it would excuse some lost seconds.

[quote="MASTER-88"]
Level 5 cannon skip is using, but quite bad luck with enemy locations so i need dodge couple bullets.

Level 8 yeah more risk is possible to get. 
[...]
Level 6 is just main reason why i hate try improve my run. This level is run killer. >:(
[...]
I believe everything under 17.30 nothing happen on PAL.
[/quote]

You still stopped to kill one of the cannons. And at exactly 0:35 in the last video you posted (patz 2) you're jumping up to dodge bullets. Try to jump to next plattform immediately. I tried this myself and it works. The plattform you have to land on is a bit lower than the one you're jumping off of.

And Level 6 definitely is a run killer. But I meant practicing that corridor part, where enemies come from the left and the right, not the part before that with the randomly appearing enemies.
MAybe here's even a version difference between the ROM I use and your catridge. On the ROM I can manage it to walk nearly straight through the corridor with minimal diagonal movements.

And I just did a run up to level 8 in 14:45 on that PAL ROM. Then I got stuck as I didn't die because of that invincibility cheat ;D
If I add the time you took for level 8 I end up with something around 16:50 as final time. Although I was invincible I lost about 15 seconds up to level 8 by missing jumps etc.
So I guess the TAS would be able to end up somewhere between 15:30 and 16:30, depending on how much more than just don't stop walking is possible in Super C.
But if there isn't a difference between your catridge and my ROM, speed should just differ by the usual 20\16,6%. Of course this doesn't take changed in game mechanics into consideration. If there's really no way on your version to walk straight through that corridor full of enemies it would excuse some lost seconds.

MASTER-88

2008-12-17 06:16:43 pm

Master-88

Quote:

You still stopped to kill one of the cannons. And at exactly 0:35 in the last video you posted (patz 2) you're jumping up to dodge bullets.

Yeah. This cost me little bit. Today i make some attempts i don,t need stop level 5 and i don,t kill any turrets. But i still not get any major lead my current run. I just think 17.45 is just my perfect goal. I think i will try submit my run if i can got 17.55 or under 18.

My 18.03 includes only two level where i can seriously improve some shy seconds. Level 5 & 8.

Today my every 10 good attempts ended up level 6. Fucking mouths and spiders make me really sick. Angry

This level make my really angry. Angry

It is only reason why i hate speedrun that game and take dangerous risks on level 8.

Quote:

So I guess the TAS would be able to end up somewhere between 15:30 and 16:30, depending on how much more than just don't stop walking is possible in Super C.

Yeah it would be true. US Tas is somewhere 12.30. PAL tas can be between 15.30-16.30

Quote:

MAybe here's even a version difference between the ROM I use and your catridge. On the ROM I can manage it to walk nearly straight through the corridor with minimal diagonal movements.

Im not 100% sure is this versio difference. But i always die if i try walking that without stop. I can make it little wrong, but i don,t have major chance practice that, because i don,t have emulator. And this game don,t includes level select code or nothing which can help me here.

But seriously this run increase my blood pressure. I really surprise if i can got 17.45. But i am very happy if i can got sub 18 minutes. And i can only fixed some minor things and levels 5 & 8 must be little bit faster. I don,t care if SDA don,t want take my run. But seriously level 6 is not fun and i don,t want break my Wii remote yet. Grin

[quote]You still stopped to kill one of the cannons. And at exactly 0:35 in the last video you posted (patz 2) you're jumping up to dodge bullets.[/quote]

Yeah. This cost me little bit. Today i make some attempts i don,t need stop level 5 and i don,t kill any turrets. But i still not get any major lead my current run. I just think 17.45 is just my perfect goal. I think i will try submit my run if i can got 17.55 or under 18.

My 18.03 includes only two level where i can seriously improve some shy seconds. Level 5 & 8.

Today my every 10 good attempts ended up level 6. Fucking mouths and spiders make me really sick. >:(
This level make my really angry. >:( It is only reason why i hate speedrun that game and take dangerous risks on level 8.

[quote]So I guess the TAS would be able to end up somewhere between 15:30 and 16:30, depending on how much more than just don't stop walking is possible in Super C.
[/quote]

Yeah it would be true. US Tas is somewhere 12.30. PAL tas can be between 15.30-16.30

[quote]MAybe here's even a version difference between the ROM I use and your catridge. On the ROM I can manage it to walk nearly straight through the corridor with minimal diagonal movements. 
[/quote]

Im not 100% sure is this versio difference. But i always die if i try walking that without stop. I can make it little wrong, but i don,t have major chance practice that, because i don,t have emulator. And this game don,t includes level select code or nothing which can help me here.

But seriously this run increase my blood pressure. I really surprise if i can got 17.45. But i am very happy if i can got sub 18 minutes. And i can only fixed some minor things and levels 5 & 8 must be little bit faster. I don,t care if SDA don,t want take my run. But seriously level 6 is not fun and i don,t want break my Wii remote yet. ;D

Frezy_man

2008-12-17 11:24:24 pm

bläää

Nice to see you are serious about this master. And are improving so much so fast. I watched your 18.30 run Smiley

It was some interesting watch and here is some comments.

Be more aggressive on the first tank. go Closer, you will hit with more bullets and get forward faster. This was for other places in the game too. The boss at area 6 is another spot.
And you should try to practice the levels more. you still stop too much to make it into SDA. For example, the last level. It is possible to run trough that one without stop at all but you slowed down 5-10 seconds I guess. and you stop much in other levels too. And did died once.

It feels like sub 17 is possible, probably 16:30 too. Do not know what Jims run would be on the PAL version though. I am Sorry master. but I would probably reject the run if I was the verifier if it is over 17:30. I am pretty sure of it. I hope you try harder.

MASTER-88

2008-12-18 05:07:09 am

Master-88

Quote:

Nice to see you are serious about this master. And are improving so much so fast. I watched your 18.30 run It was some interesting watch and here is some comments.

Thanks your comment. Smiley

Actually 18.34 is old. My new run is 18.03. It is just better and i redo those parts here. Wink

Quote:

And you should try to practice the levels more. you still stop too much to make it into SDA. For example, the last level. It is possible to run trough that one without stop at all but you slowed down 5-10 seconds I guess. and you stop much in other levels too. And did died once.

Last level was bit better my 18.03 run. But yeah it was still too cautions. Im not super happy with this. You are right i can redo that and yeah i know it is possible go through without stop with perfect luck.

Quote:

And did died once.

SDA don,t ban deaths if you make it save your time.

Quote:

It feels like sub 17 is possible, probably 16:30 too. Do not know what Jims run would be on the PAL version though. I am Sorry master. but I would probably reject the run if I was the verifier if it is over 17:30. I am pretty sure of it. I hope you try harder.

Hah haa your must be joking about sub 17 minutes. Seriously if anyone can make it i promise eat my hat Grin

Quote:

I hope you try harder.

Yeah me too, but level 6 make me break my wii remote. Grin

[quote]Nice to see you are serious about this master. And are improving so much so fast. I watched your 18.30 run  It was some interesting watch and here is some comments.
[/quote]

Thanks your comment. :)
Actually 18.34 is old. My new run is 18.03. It is just better and i redo those parts here. ;)

[quote]And you should try to practice the levels more. you still stop too much to make it into SDA. For example, the last level. It is possible to run trough that one without stop at all but you slowed down 5-10 seconds I guess. and you stop much in other levels too. And did died once. [/quote]

Last level was bit better my 18.03 run. But yeah it was still too cautions. Im not super happy with this. You are right i can redo that and yeah i know it is possible go through without stop with perfect luck.

[quote]And did died once. [/quote]

SDA don,t ban deaths if you make it save your time.

[quote]It feels like sub 17 is possible, probably 16:30 too. Do not know what Jims run would be on the PAL version though. I am Sorry master. but I would probably reject the run if I was the verifier if it is over 17:30. I am pretty sure of it. I hope you try harder.
[/quote]

Hah haa your must be joking about sub 17 minutes. Seriously if anyone can make it i promise eat my hat ;D

[quote]I hope you try harder.[/quote]

Yeah me too, but level 6 make me break my wii remote. ;D

Frezy_man

2008-12-18 09:45:17 am

bläää

oh,dude. I am sorry. I meant I watched the 18:03 run.
Do that death saves you time? I did not know that

Quote from MASTER-88:

Hah haa your must be joking about sub 17 minutes. Seriously if anyone can make it i promise eat my hat Grin

Actually, I am not joking Tongue

That is what my calculations show me. Even if that guess is brave.

MASTER-88

2008-12-18 10:04:14 am

Master-88

Quote:

Do that death saves you time? I did not know that

Without got F-weapons it is faster kill last boss using default gun. TAS runner use default gun against him. It is very minor time difference between F-weapon-default gun.

Quote:

Actually, I am not joking That is what my calculations show me. Even if that guess is brave.

Ok but i never can break sub 17.30 limit.

Today i spend 4-5 hours playing that game and got two nice run. First one ended up 18.04 and second one ended up 18.07. This looks i can,t seriously got any faster run. Level 8 is always too cautions, enemys come wrong palces so i need stop couple times or i 100% die.

Im not care die after beat level 6. But this still happen for me couple times a today.

My 18.07 includes amazing 3rd boss fight. It was faster than Jim fight. This battle is just very random. It always got random amount damage. I am managed perfect fight only 3-4 times in my life. This is one quite big timesaver.

This game is taking me total at least 500-1000 failed attempts. It is very rare when i beat game without dying. This looks i want give up. I´ll probably try under 18 minutes yet but if it not enought i don,t care improve any more my time. Because i am burn out and this looks 18.0x is my max time. And i believe no one in the world can got under 17.30. Even you can,t got it.

[quote]Do that death saves you time? I did not know that
[/quote]

Without got F-weapons it is faster kill last boss using default gun. TAS runner use default gun against him. It is very minor time difference between F-weapon-default gun.

[quote]Actually, I am not joking  That is what my calculations show me. Even if that guess is brave.[/quote]

Ok but i never can break sub 17.30 limit.

Today i spend 4-5 hours playing that game and got two nice run. First one ended up 18.04 and second one ended up 18.07. This looks i can,t seriously got any faster run. Level 8 is always too cautions, enemys come wrong palces so i need stop couple times or i 100% die.

Im not care die after beat level 6. But this still happen for me couple times a today.

My 18.07 includes amazing 3rd boss fight. It was faster than Jim fight. This battle is just very random. It always got random amount damage. I am managed perfect fight only 3-4 times in my life. This is one quite big timesaver.

This game is taking me total at least 500-1000 failed attempts. It is very rare when i beat game without dying. This looks i want give up. I´ll probably try under 18 minutes yet but if it not enought i don,t care improve any more my time. Because i am burn out and this looks 18.0x is my max time. And i believe no one in the world can got under 17.30. Even you can,t got it.

MASTER-88

2008-12-18 01:05:44 pm

Master-88

Ok guys:

18.02.

-One shy seconds this looks this limit are quite max. I am got 18.03, 18.04 and 18.07 already. Even i paly very well this looks it is limit.

I will try submit that, because this run looks fucking cool. I just check out some bigger time losts:
-Level 1 i need wait grenades 2-seconds
-Level 3-boss was 4-5 seconds slower than my best fight ever. But this was still good. Perfect fight is so rare and random.
-Level 5 i need wait one bullet cost me 2-seconds
-Level 7 alien eggs room can be done 4-5 seconds faster.
-Level 7 boss is not my best possible. Cost some seconds. But i don,t believe i got major time losts

-Level 8 starting can be little bit faster. But actually my end part was very lucky compared my other runs.

I don,t know, but i can easily say everything under 17.45 is not really possible to reach. Or it requires just perfect luck. I just think if everything what i did wrong, i can fix i can got 17.45. But this looks everything better is not really possible. Those my stops not really cost real time, only 1 at most 2-seconds. And this run don,t includes alot stops.

I don,t see point redo that time.
I am got
18.03
18.04
18.07
And finally 18.02

This my 18.02 looks mostly better than my 18.03. Level 5 & 8 looks riskier. This looks max limit. I want submit that. If anyone care improve it is ok. But i don,t believe nobody can break 17.30 limit. 17.45 looks it is max.

Seriously there is no room what i really can redo. always something doing faster, but something doing slower. All depend how enemys moves.

Ok guys:

18.02.

-One shy seconds this looks this limit are quite max. I am got 18.03, 18.04 and 18.07 already. Even i paly very well this looks it is limit.

I will try submit that, because this run looks fucking cool. I just check out some bigger time losts:
-Level 1 i need wait grenades 2-seconds
-Level 3-boss was 4-5 seconds slower than my best fight ever. But this was still good. Perfect fight is so rare and random.
-Level 5 i need wait one bullet cost me 2-seconds
-Level 7 alien eggs room can be done 4-5 seconds faster.
-Level 7 boss is not my best possible. Cost some seconds. But i don,t believe i got major time losts

-Level 8 starting can be little bit faster. But actually my end part was very lucky compared my other runs.

I don,t know, but i can easily say everything under 17.45 is not really possible to reach. Or it requires just perfect luck. I just think if everything what i did wrong, i can fix i can got 17.45. But this looks everything better is not really possible. Those my stops not really cost real time, only 1 at most 2-seconds. And this run don,t includes alot stops.

I don,t see point redo that time.
I am got
18.03
18.04
18.07
And finally 18.02

This my 18.02 looks mostly better than my 18.03. Level 5 & 8 looks riskier. This looks max limit. I want submit that. If anyone care improve it is ok. But i don,t believe nobody can break 17.30 limit. 17.45 looks it is max.

Seriously there is no room what i really can redo. always something doing faster, but something doing slower. All depend how enemys moves.

andrewg

Edit history:

andrewg: 2008-12-18 03:18:31 pm

2008-12-18 03:11:33 pm

Hi! I'm andrewg!

Some thoughts:
- In level 4 the boss got killed pretty slowly because of where you killed it.
- It looks like you aren't standing in the right spots to exit the levels in the fastest like 1-2 seconds per level lost (like in level 1 you should stand farther to the right after killing the boss).
- You seem a little cautious, don't be afraid to take some more risks.
- You should shoot less and concentrate on killing specific enemies in specific spots. Rapid firing can cause lag when it's done too much.
- Find a route and stick to it, the later levels seem to not be thoroughly thought out.

I don't get the deal with you randomly stopping in the last level. I don't see anything that will hurt you and you don't have to necessarily kill the enemies.

Try and beat every level holding right (up for the vertical ones) the entire time. There are different ways to avoid enemies or kill them while still progressing forward. The run isn't bad, but I think you're just overlooking a lot of things that could save time.

All the little stops and mistakes do add up though. If you save like 5 second per level that would get you around 17:30.

Some thoughts:
- In level 4 the boss got killed pretty slowly because of where you killed it. 
- It looks like you aren't standing in the right spots to exit the levels in the fastest like 1-2 seconds per level lost (like in level 1 you should stand farther to the right after killing the boss).
- You seem a little cautious, don't be afraid to take some more risks. 
- You should shoot less and concentrate on killing specific enemies in specific spots. Rapid firing can cause lag when it's done too much.
- Find a route and stick to it, the later levels seem to not be thoroughly thought out.

I don't get the deal with you randomly stopping in the last level. I don't see anything that will hurt you and you don't have to necessarily kill the enemies.

Try and beat every level holding right (up for the vertical ones) the entire time. There are different ways to avoid enemies or kill them while still progressing forward. The run isn't bad, but I think you're just overlooking a lot of things that could save time.

All the little stops and mistakes do add up though. If you save like 5 second per level that would get you around 17:30.

MASTER-88

2008-12-18 04:07:23 pm

Master-88

You guys started piss me off. This looks you want see how i break my wii remote. Heh heh no seriously Grin

Thanks andrewg you are one my idol in the SDA. You are awesome player. Cheesy

Quote:

- In level 4 the boss got killed pretty slowly because of where you killed it.

You are first who say my level 4 boss is too slow. Actually my battle was faster than Jim fight. But yeah 1-2 seconds can be possible are faster.

Quote:

- You seem a little cautious, don't be afraid to take some more risks.

Always. Most of the time it is good idea. This game is not Super Mario Bros. Grin

Enemys moved randomly.

Quote:

I don't get the deal with you randomly stopping in the last level. I don't see anything that will hurt you and you don't have to necessarily kill the enemies.

There is hundreds way die. But check out my new run this level looks better.

New run
Part 1:

part 2:

Vugmer

2008-12-18 04:37:59 pm

Cigar Man

Quote from MASTER-88:

You are first who say my level 4 boss is too slow. Actually my battle was faster than Jim fight. But yeah 1-2 seconds can be possible are faster.

How is your fourth boss fight faster than mine? In my run, I killed the fourth boss before it reached the left side of the screen; you didn't.

MASTER-88

2008-12-18 04:51:33 pm

Master-88

I am sorry Jim. Your rhythm was just different. But i don,t see my 4th bosses was any slower than other players. This was good part my every run. TAS fight was just awesome.

But what you thinking my new run. Is it possible accept on SDA? Or need i break my Wii remote?

Hattori HANZo

2008-12-18 04:58:50 pm

contraddicted

Quote from MASTER-88:

Hah haa your must be joking about sub 17 minutes. Seriously if anyone can make it i promise eat my hat Grin

If you show us a picture of the specific hat you'd be eating and promise to post a video of the entire meal I could be tempted Grin

But I guess I'd fail. Miserably...

And no, I don't want to see you brake your remote. I couldn't stand watching a friend throwing his controller on the floor when failing at something and for a Wiimote I'd even have an actual use. I go for the hat Grin

Your 18:02 is good, really. But still there's plenty of little things left. When you walk up uphill you don't jump most of the time, especially in Area 5 this is obvious. It's hard to estimate, but I guess this adds up to quite some seconds over the whole run. It's like smoking: a pack of cigarettes here and there adds up to some annoying amount of cash over the year Wink