Star Ocean 4 : The Last Hope

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-04-13 11:38:58 pm

2009-04-13 11:29:49 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Cool, that explains why I had the suspicion I was missing out on some recipes. I'm vaguely curious as to which of these are any useful, if someone already has a list of all of them. (Of course, I don't know what I'm missing out on because I've never seen it, lol.) BTW, this means that the number of combinations is actually 8c3 + 7c2 = 77.

Great to hear you continue the storied tradition of armor being useless in RPG runs. Wink

Edit: Just thought of something I wanted to mention many times but kept on forgetting. You are using the install to hard drive feature right?

Yako

2009-04-14 06:38:24 am

Yeah, it sucks that you still have to switch discs anyways. I'm pretty sure the timer keeps going too, so I'm working on speeding up my disc-switching skills. Wink

My guide says you need Arumat for the following:
Spirit Bow "Darkstriker"
Judgement Spear
Ogre's Armor
Red Dragon Mail
Valiant Mail
Vile Goop
Symbol Card Terra Hammer +
Symbol Card Volcanic Burst +
Dragoon Blaster
Photonic Blaster
Symbol Cannon Tempest
Laser Scythe
Quadplex Scythe
Quake Scythe
Darkness Scarf
Red Talisman
Love Potion No. 256

Some of those may be wrong. Gotta love guides. Smiley

Enhasa

2009-04-14 03:45:08 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah, this game has a truly accurate timer. It doesn't even stop when you pause. Grin

Though it must be agonizing watching it count up as you're saving. Lips Sealed

This only matters if someone is truly perfectionist, but maybe a memory card would be faster (flash memory is faster but cards also use USB). I've heard of tricks people use to reduce saving time, including wiping their card, filling up their card, or reorganizing it.

Thanks for the Arumat list, but actually the one that applies to me is the Faize list.

Yako

2009-04-14 05:29:57 pm

Yeah, I got a 512 mb memory card. It saves a second when I save. Wink

It's quicker when it's empty.
Although the timer keeps going up as you save, it takes the time for the save when you pushed A. At least. Wink

Out of curiosity, would SDA use the in-game timer, or time it manually? And the timer ends at what point exactly?

Status update:
Right now I'm sitting just outside the "boss" in the citadel at 27:33, but I got 3 fights that I could potentially avoid, so I'm gonna redo that segment and try to get under 27:00. And the segment after that might take a while to get up. I need the Dragon Newt boss to drop a Fire Gem, so that I can make the Flame Sword. Need 2 Fire Gems, and Lutea is kind enough to donate hers to the cause!

Enhasa

2009-04-14 05:59:31 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

In-game timer.

IIRC the game saves clear data to your profile and not the game saves, so since the game doesn't save after the ending, timing stops on final hit of Satanail. This means that anything you do after that doesn't affect the time, so you can include the ending if you want.

Yako

2009-04-15 10:20:48 am

Ok, well, I'm settling with a 27:21. Turns out if you get really lucky, you can potentially avoid all fights inside the citadel (and therefore, the whole game, other than the fights which you CANNOT run from). But I can't seem to ever get less than 3 on any try, so 27:21 it is. Avoiding all the fights, it would be possible to get sub 26:40 I think. Each fight costs at least 15 seconds, sometimes even more. The lizardmen are the problem. Their collision boxes are bigger than they are. Sad

Faize IC List
Iron Saber
Elastic Saber
Rune Saber
Onyx Saber

lol, that seems to be it for Faize! Does he have any redeeming qualities?

jp

2009-04-15 06:45:16 pm

Could you go for a fightless Citadel but use an extra save to ease the difficulty and still save time?

Quote from Yako:

Does he have any redeeming qualities?

Yeah, he leaves and you get a good character.

Yako

2009-04-15 07:37:21 pm

Well, the only saves around are the ones outside the citadel and before the Dragon Newt, so if you'd want to do that, you'd have to exit the citadel after coming back down from the left side. The unfortunate thing is that the trouble area is the left area. Usually, you get 0-1 on the right side. But it's a good idea, I'll give it a try for a bit right now. Another thing I realized is that, for menu access right before saving, it doesn't matter if you access the menu while on the save point or not. Once you're done boosting skills, it's quicker to exist the menu with start and push A on the save then it is to save via the menu. So if you've got to access the menu, you can do it whenever you want, really.

So yeah, thanks jp, gonna go try that.

Yako

2009-04-15 09:07:01 pm

That was a good idea jp. 26:50, just one unnecessary fight that I managed to dodge only twice in like 100 attempts. Smiley

FinalDragoon

2009-04-16 08:19:27 pm

You would need a 60gb premium or 120gb elite, but you could save some time by installing all 3 discs so as to cut down on loading times. I can't really test it since I only have a puny 20gb drive....

Yako

2009-04-18 09:47:37 am

To FinalDragoon: Yeah, I've installed all three. However, you could get by with just installing 2 at a time, since once you never backtrack onto a previous disc.

Ok, so I got a Fire Gem and saved in Woodley at like 31:17. Problem is, I know I can do better than 31:00, my Dragon Newt battle was terrible. I'm gonna go edit the opening post of this topic with my currently planned segments, and the times I've gotten thus far. I've found the best way to approach the Dragon Newt is to continually blindside him, but to only attack if he isn't in Rush Mode. Lvl 4 Hatchet Reel doesn't seem to do too much (around 100 damage, the Newt has 6.6k), and AI Lymle doesn't like casting it much, even if Fire Bolt is set to off. :/

Yako

2009-04-21 06:48:42 am

Ok, so I've decided to settle for 2 Bizarre Fruits from the harvesting segment,for a time of 35:11. My guide (Brady) says that the harvest points around Woodley and in the Forest you need the orchid to enter drop the same things, but they list like 5 billion items, and some I only saw dropped in one of the two areas. Whereas the Bizarre Fruits seem to be fairly common in the Woodley points, I don't recall ever seeing them in the forest, so I settled for getting 2 from the 2 Woodley spots, which will put me at 4 Potent Attack Seeds by end game. So in hindsight, Maybe I should have redone Armaros until I got one there? Anyways, I'm learning a lot of stuff on which I could possibly improve on a future speedrun, so that's good at least.

Next up are a few easy segments, and then 2 that might be a challenge. ICing the Flame Sword and running to the ship will be easy, as will running straight to the first save point in the ship. However, the 3-part ambush and Barachiel might be a bit harder. They should all be done by the end of Thursday though.

Ok, so I've decided to settle for 2 Bizarre Fruits from the harvesting segment,for a time of 35:11. My guide (Brady) says that the harvest points around Woodley and in the Forest you need the orchid to enter drop the same things, but they list like 5 billion items, and some I only saw dropped in one of the two areas. Whereas the Bizarre Fruits seem to be fairly common in the Woodley points, I don't recall ever seeing them in the forest, so I settled for getting 2 from the 2 Woodley spots, which will put me at 4 Potent Attack Seeds by end game. So in hindsight, Maybe I should have redone Armaros until I got one there? Anyways, I'm learning a lot of stuff on which I could possibly improve on a future speedrun, so that's good at least.

Next up are a few easy segments, and then 2 that might be a challenge. ICing the Flame Sword and running to the ship will be easy, as will running straight to the first save point in the ship. However, the 3-part ambush and Barachiel might be a bit harder. They should all be done by the end of Thursday though.

Yako

2009-04-21 08:26:02 pm

Heh, looks like video has been pushed back to like May 15th. I live in an area of Canada where DVRs aren't plentiful. As such, I had to purchase an open box Pioneer DVR-560H-K which came without a remote. So I ordered the remote from Panasonic Canada. Their website says that it takes 1-2 business days to process the order, and 1-3 business days for the order to ship to where I live. What their website fails to mention is that it takes 1 ******' MONTH FOR THE ITEM TO GET SHIPPED FROM ASIA TO NORTH AMERICA. If I'd have known that, I'd have taken the Sony DVR that was also open box, and tried to get a remote for that instead. So yeah, no remote, no videos. :/

Enhasa

2009-04-22 12:33:46 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

As long as you're making progress, I don't really mind a lack of videos right now. As long as it doesn't hurt the run itself, not being able to see stuff until it's submitted seems normal, and any youtubing is just a bonus.

Yako

2009-04-23 09:23:38 am

Yeah, this won't affect the run at all, so no worries. As for my progress for today, I'm happy with it. I'm now done with Barachiel, with a time of 45:25. Barachiel takes about 3 minutes to kill, because Edge is an idiot. :/ Without Stampede Slash (I'm 2 levels (500 Exp) short of level 10), and Rising Blade doing as much as 1 regular attack, the only way to kill Barachiel is to attack when he dives to the ground. Unfortunately, even though Barachiel's weak point is at eye level, Edge insists on jump slashing. Also unfortunately, jump slashing frees Barachiel from the ground. Now, the first hit always hits the weakpoint, but it seems kinda random whether the second and third ones do. So it's a very boring fight. You have Reimi and Faize on do nothing, Lymle on stay out of danger, with Fire Bolt turned off so she heals Edge (Hatchet Reel at lvl 5 and Lymle at lvl 7 only does about 400-500 damage WHEN SHE MANAGES TO HIT THE WEAK POINT, rather disappointing), and Edge just runs around getting Barachiel to dive (and he always gets hit in the process!), and runs behind Barachiel to strike. Rinse and repeat about 15 times. I think the Dragon Newt and Armaros fights were way more interesting.

Yako

2009-04-26 08:22:14 pm

Well, no much to say. I had a really productive weekend, and now that all the luck-oriented parts and most of the hard-to-avoid fights are behind me, progress should be smooth. I've altered my 'treasure route' a bit mid-run to save a little time, but this forces me to pick up 2 useless chests. As well, I was initially aiming for a sub 3:15:00, but seeing as how I over-estimated how long Reimi and Co. stay on Roak, I might be able to do sub 3:00:00. Smiley

As I go along, I keep seeing ways that I could improve the run as well, although I wish I'd have planned it perfectly from the get-go, especially the treasure route planning. I should be done the run 2-3 weeks I'd say, 1 month if something unexpected comes up.

Yako

2009-04-30 12:42:59 pm

Ok, I know that the Guardian Beast in the Purgatorium is weak to thunder, but Bacchus seems to suck against it. The other alternative is to get into 2 random fights to get Reimi to level 25 to use Crimson Squall, but 2 fights in this game takes like 30 minutes (ok, about 1 minute). So what else can be done? Seems like blindsiding with Edge is the answer, amazingly enough. It takes as long to kill the Guardian Beast with a level 26 Edge as it does to kill it with a level 25 Reimi. I would never have thought that before actually doing it. I have planned to do the Guardian Beast and Tamiel with Reimi initially, but I've changed my mind to having Edge do the Guardian Beast and Bacchus Rush Comboing Galvanic Shock into Crimson Squall for the quick win. At the same time, this allows me to save 1-2 Blackberries I was planning to use for those 2 fights, have Reimi been the one used. It's stuff like this that makes me think that after my initial run is done and submitted, I should probably go ahead and give it another shot to tidy up everything. Onwards to Aeos and the Phantom Ambush with Edge, Meracle, Reimi, and Lymle, with Faize coming in for Edge to help kill the last Phantom, and earn some xp for Arumat!

Yako

2009-05-01 10:06:15 pm

Yeah, so the run just hit a brick wall called the Phantom Ambush... I'm not sure how to get by here. I have Edge, Reimi, Meracle at level 27, Lymle at 28, Sarah and Myuria at whatever level they join at, and Bacchus at either 28 or 29. Faize is irrelevant. I've tried everything from having 3 healers to just having 1, and I can't seem to get past the ambush. I usually die between fights 6 and 8. When they get to 5 phantoms, they seem to target whatever character I'm using right when they appear, and before I can get off a single attack, I'm usually dead. Maybe I'm trying to be too aggressive and I need to dodge around a bit before Sonicing (Sonic Thorn)? I've tried blindsides, Crimson Squall, Sonic Thorn, nothing seems to be able to get me past them at such low levels. Maybe I should have gotten some armor after all? I got the anti-stun amulet, and I've been giving it to Sarah so she can keep healing, but unfortunately they often do enough damage to interrupt my healers. :/

Gonna keep working on it, but I'm really not sure how I'm gonna do this. It's not like I can go the Hound Grenade route, and Sonic Thorn just isn't as effective at level 1. :/

Yeah, so the run just hit a brick wall called the Phantom Ambush... I'm not sure how to get by here. I have Edge, Reimi, Meracle at level 27, Lymle at 28, Sarah and Myuria at whatever level they join at, and Bacchus at either 28 or 29. Faize is irrelevant. I've tried everything from having 3 healers to just having 1, and I can't seem to get past the ambush. I usually die between fights 6 and 8. When they get to 5 phantoms, they seem to target whatever character I'm using right when they appear, and before I can get off a single attack, I'm usually dead. Maybe I'm trying to be too aggressive and I need to dodge around a bit before Sonicing (Sonic Thorn)? I've tried blindsides, Crimson Squall, Sonic Thorn, nothing seems to be able to get me past them at such low levels. Maybe I should have gotten some armor after all? I got the anti-stun amulet, and I've been giving it to Sarah so she can keep healing, but unfortunately they often do enough damage to interrupt my healers. :/

Gonna keep working on it, but I'm really not sure how I'm gonna do this. It's not like I can go the Hound Grenade route, and Sonic Thorn just isn't as effective at level 1. :/

FinalDragoon

2009-05-01 10:29:40 pm

You could brute force your way through by getting HP Boost manuals for who you want to use. Then, just try and max them out so they all have an extra 10k hp to work with....

Yako

2009-05-02 07:58:10 am

I managed to get it done, and it went pretty smoothly. Only lost Myuria at the end when it didn't matter. So now I just have to do it again and get it on tape, (erm, hard drive). Be back with good news soon! Smiley

Yako

2009-05-02 10:51:53 am

It is done, and I am happy! Smooth sailing till the end now!

Yako

2009-05-02 10:56:52 pm

***Minor spoilers if you haven't finished the game***

Time to go to bed. I'll give Satanail a final night to say his goodbyes. Wink

I tested, he actually needs the No Guard from Rush Mode to be able to do anything because I'm too overpowered at level 43. Poor guy. Faize always was pathetic.

Yako

2009-05-03 07:51:15 am

Ok, I'm done, clocking in at about 2:48:40 Smiley

I'll mail the run to Neal as soon as I get my remote and get to put the run on DVD. Pioneer got their act together, so I should get the remote this week. To tell the truth, I'm a bit disappointed with my play in a lot of parts, and I'm not sure SDA will accept the run because sometimes it looks terribly sloppy. But I'm gonna submit it anyway, and after next weekend, I'm gonna start working on redoing the run. Having a better understanding of what is needed will help out a lot. For instance, I was planning on using Meracle/Ripper Pounce to kill Satanail's orbs, but Meracle is too low to hit them, and Reimi's Sonic Thorn is much better any way. I planned to pickpocket Learner's Gloves, but the guy who has them doesn't appear in Astral Castle the only time you're required to go there. Finally, for the major planning changes, I used Crimson Squall and planned on using it from Guardian Beast on, but I only needed for the last two bosses, and because of this, Sonic Thorn might be the better skill to use.

So yeah, I think with improved planning, and tighter running, I can get sub 2:45, possibly even sub 2:40. One week break, and I'm back on it! Thanks for the help and the encouragement guys, it's appreciated! Cheesy

Ok, I'm done, clocking in at about 2:48:40 :) I'll mail the run to Neal as soon as I get my remote and get to put the run on DVD. Pioneer got their act together, so I should get the remote this week. To tell the truth, I'm a bit disappointed with my play in a lot of parts, and I'm not sure SDA will accept the run because sometimes it looks terribly sloppy. But I'm gonna submit it anyway, and after next weekend, I'm gonna start working on redoing the run. Having a better understanding of what is needed will help out a lot. For instance, I was planning on using Meracle/Ripper Pounce to kill Satanail's orbs, but Meracle is too low to hit them, and Reimi's Sonic Thorn is much better any way. I planned to pickpocket Learner's Gloves, but the guy who has them doesn't appear in Astral Castle the only time you're required to go there. Finally, for the major planning changes, I used Crimson Squall and planned on using it from Guardian Beast on, but I only needed for the last two bosses, and because of this, Sonic Thorn might be the better skill to use.

So yeah, I think with improved planning, and tighter running, I can get sub 2:45, possibly even sub 2:40. One week break, and I'm back on it! Thanks for the help and the encouragement guys, it's appreciated! :D

Enhasa

2009-05-04 03:33:37 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Good job! Life lesson: record every attempt so you don't have to redo them. Tongue

You don't have to worry about what happens after you submit. We can work with you, if you want your run to go up, be delayed until you finish your new run, whatever. You might actually finish your new run before this one goes up, it happens sometimes. This run would still have a useful purpose which is that verifiers seeing it can give you advice if you missed anything they notice.

Yako

2009-05-05 06:43:59 am

I think I'm gonna proceed on version 2 at a much slower pace so that frustration doesn't motivate me to go on to the next segment before I really should. I'd like my 1st version, if it is accepted, to go up, so people can look at it and see where I can potentially improve.

I tried the Guardian Beast using Sonic Thorn today instead of Edge and blindsides, and it saves about 45 seconds. Considering that using lvl 10 Sonic Thorn will save time on the Phantom Ambush and Satanail's orbs as well, I think just from that change I might be able to save almost 2 minutes. Plus, I've already decided to cut down on shopping, and it seems the way to go for the endgame is to just concentrate on Reimi's Saint Bow. I don't think Meracle and Arumat's weapons are worth the time investment. Like, putting that 1 Potent Attack Seed + Light on both weapons costs about 22 seconds + the time spent acquiring 2 Alien Arcs and 1 Bizarre Fruit (converting the Bizarre Fruit is part of the 22 seconds), and I don't think that they save you that much time against the Apostle and Satanail combined. The Apostle dies really quickly, in like 30 seconds, and against Satanail, Reimi and Sarah are usually the only two living characters.

I think I'm gonna proceed on version 2 at a much slower pace so that frustration doesn't motivate me to go on to the next segment before I really should. I'd like my 1st version, if it is accepted, to go up, so people can look at it and see where I can potentially improve.

I tried the Guardian Beast using Sonic Thorn today instead of Edge and blindsides, and it saves about 45 seconds. Considering that using lvl 10 Sonic Thorn will save time on the Phantom Ambush and Satanail's orbs as well, I think just from that change I might be able to save almost 2 minutes. Plus, I've already decided to cut down on shopping, and it seems the way to go for the endgame is to just concentrate on Reimi's Saint Bow. I don't think Meracle and Arumat's weapons are worth the time investment. Like, putting that 1 Potent Attack Seed + Light on both weapons costs about 22 seconds + the time spent acquiring 2 Alien Arcs and 1 Bizarre Fruit (converting the Bizarre Fruit is part of the 22 seconds), and I don't think that they save you that much time against the Apostle and Satanail combined. The Apostle dies really quickly, in like 30 seconds, and against Satanail, Reimi and Sarah are usually the only two living characters.