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iamfanboy: 2008-01-08 04:29:40 am
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
I'd prefer getting Firearms to 3 before the first Arena fight, and the Ghouls are quick Karma for the first two sets of spawns. I only get 3 Karma from the ghouls, though.

Nothing bad about the idea to hire Kitsune; after all, judicious use of shadowrunners could make the game a lot easier. Only problem is that after you get the Invisibility spell, it's more cost-effective to just go invisible in any fight and either blow the enemies away or run past them.

I tried just sneaking past the guards in the Drake's Tower with Invisibility to trigger the elevators; the only problem is that you lose your invisibility the moment you come out of the Matrix and have to recast it because they'll stunlock you to death while you run for the elevator. For that strategy, you have to cast Invisibility a total of 13 times... and the Karma cost would outweigh the benefits of saving time.

My current strategy is to clear out the 2nd floor, casting Invisibility twice, heading down to get the Dermal Implants and the Boosted Reflexes (doing it in one trip), then using Invisibility once on each of the next few floors, with a casting of Heal on either the 4th or 5th floors depending on how well you do after your invisibility runs out. This means I need my Magic at at least 8... which matches my needs for Drake's Volcano anyway.

I'll be trying out this strategy when my current run (checking Karma and nuyen totals reached at each point in the game) reaches that point; the only save-state I have there has Magic at 9, not 8.

So far, these are the segments I'm planning, well, the part I'm saving at at least.

1) Just after leveling firearms to 3 in Caryard. (12 minutes is the goal, but I'll settle for 13; I timed it earlier at that rate)
2) Arena Gang Member, 2 Heavy Dudes.
3) Arena Two Mages.
4) Arena Samurai, Ferocious Ork, King.
5) Rust Stilettos inner door.
6) Leaves from Kitsune, Dog, Incubus.
7) Rat Shaman.
8 ) Arena Gang Leader, Stake and Bottles, back to 10th Street, asking Kitsune about DB, Dark Blade.
10) Bremerton.
11) Drake's Tower.
12) Volcano.
13) Aneki.


I sell my Beretta to the dwarf when I buy the T-250, to buy 7 Slap Patches total. 5 Slap Patches should be enough to see me through both parts of the Rust Stilettos, barring horrible luck. I'm using 1 on the Samurai fight and 1 on the King fight on average, and I'm not patient enough to redo each fight like a jillion times looking for perfect battles.

Well, maybe I am; we'll see when the time comes to actually RECORD the fights. I may split the Samurai, Ferocious Ork, and King all into separate segments to try and save as many Patches as I can. The main manipulation to accomplish isn't time in those fights; it's just plain staying ALIVE.

I was tempted to merge the Dark Blade and the Bremerton segments together, but decided against it because the ghouls in the basement CAN be dangerous when leveling up. That will be the boring segment, because I'll have to get a fair bit of Karma from that part; probably about 30-35. No fun at all.

According to my calculations, I have to pick up at least 2900 nuyen from random drops in order to to afford the HK227 after Drake's Tower. I'm still trying to decide whether the time I spend on picking up 1k of those nuyen drops would make up for running into Glutman's office to pick up the nuyen there... probably not. Once I have that, I can ignore any more random nuyen drops. I'll be focusing on the ones in Downtown mostly because they're more profitable. Also, I'll be ignoring any random battles I can without being stunlocked by enemy fire.
Edit history:
iamfanboy: 2008-01-10 08:54:58 am
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Well, I was wrong - even having 5 Slap Patches on you isn't enough to let you survive both the outer and inner parts of the Rust Stilettos. 17 failed attempts in a row feel pretty conclusive to me. And not "by a hair" failed, I mean "I kill one guy and there's still four guys left when I die" fail.

So it IS going to have to be two segments. Meh.

Aaanyway, here's the first part of the PRACTICE speedrun in under 9:30 on YouTube. It's recorded on snes9x, so completely ineligable it is. If anyone has any suggestions to speed it up, be my guest to suggest it. No real surprises here, though.



You'll see that I completely piss away a perfectly good Sniper spawn. Other little mistakes clutter the run - my USB controller's joystick is too far away from my thumb.

The reason I don't make the first time I visit Jake's room a segment end is because when I visit it depends on how well I do killing the snipers. If I get all 3 with one lifebar (as I did here), then I'll head up after and go straight to the bar. If I have to heal after two of them, I'll go up, heal, kill the third, and walk to the bar from the Monorail Station. Takes only a few seconds longer, provided the Snipers show up... that's the rough part.

No real Peephole troubles here.

I'm gonna be uploading part 2, all the way through the arena battles, as soon as my connection will handle it.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Part 2 here.



It IS segmented; the segments are: the Gang Member, the two Heavy Dudes and the first Mage, the second Mage, the Samurai, Ferocious Ork, and then King hisself.

I forgot that the Street Kid only sells you 6 Slap Patches total; that's why I stutter at that point. Meh. I'll have to figure out the optimum number to buy, since I can't buy enough to carry me through both Rust Stilettos segments... but that will come after.
HI, quick note - Max Slap Patches or Grenades you can hold are 6 of each. Don' ask me why. That's just what they thought was a good idea! Great segments so far, I'll see if I can youtube a practice of my methods over the next 2 days to see if anything different from yours.

Yeah Rust Stilletos I had to do in at least 2 segments. I used Norbert the Dwarf, Ares Pistol and Grenades to take out the gang members bunched together in the final room followed by regular fire. So I would recommend getting grenades from the gun shop in Old Town.

Taking out the goons on your own for the first bit in the alleyway is recommended, then getting the shadowrunner if you want them to live longer.
Edit history:
iamfanboy: 2008-01-10 10:16:03 am
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Heh, I didn't have any problem keeping Frogtongue alive. 70 HP + level 3 armor means he's the most durable out of the mercenaries. In part 5 I do a completely useless heal on him...


Anyway, Part 3 here.



Ugh. The stench of defeat hangs heavy over this part... I simply couldn't kill the Rust Stilettos in one go. This segment is surprisingly tricky - if I get hurt too badly going to or leaving the Doctor's office by the FUCKING GUN NUTS WHO LIVE IN THE ANEKI BUILDING BASEMENT FOR SOME RETARDED REASON, I have a problem even clearing the first part of the Rust Stilettos. You'll see me re-enter the office twice; after seeing 5 windows open I shuddered.

I'm so bad at menu use. I like having the items on a shortcut button, really I do; the problem is I keep going to that when I need to change weapons, armors, or spells.

Oh, and how do you like the 'refund' I take from the first Street Doc? In the 21st century, malpractice suits tend to be far more... personal.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Heeere's part 4 of the practice!



(Yeah, I've been planning this out pretty thoroughly and I'm suffering from a bout of insomnia, so I'm gonna do as many of these parts as I can, now.)

Inner sanctum of Rust Stilettos + the Dog Spirit, here. In retrospect, I think I'll leave the Octopus/Incubus for later. In the Shadowrun world, Awakened (or magical, if you prefer) octopi exist that create sexy illusions so you'll step right into their tentacles. Just in case you EVER wondered why your character's sexy girlfriend suddenly turned into a poo-flinging octopus, that's the explanation.

Raiding the Matrix Systems gives me enough cash for the Talismonger's shop 2 segments down, so I don't need the nuyen. Might as well wait til I can get the ink in the Purple Bottle for the Freeze spell, after I kill the Jester Spirit.

A shorter segment this time, but still muy important.
Edit history:
iamfanboy: 2008-01-10 11:26:36 am
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
All the way to part 5!  Shocked



This is the segment where I give the Rat Shaman the ol' shotgun salute, at the request of my new buddy Dog. Uhh... I guess Dog is a terrier, seeing as how he hates rats.

Pretty smooth, except for a useless heal at the end - I forgot that I was walking in safe zones til the next save. *shrug* Oh well.

And as a side note, I have all the way through Bremerton recorded, and so far I'm sitting pretty at about 80 minutes. I think I can do this in under 2 hours, provided I can clear the Drake Towers in a single go.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Part 6:



This run is mostly just prepwork.

The Gang Leader is terrible. He moves so much and so randomly that you lose tracking easily; however, I need his 6k nuyen so I soldier on through him. Heal turns him from hard to annoying.

I check to see if the Potion Bottles got filled because when SNES9x records I can't hear any sound.

I had to actually redo this part. Not only did Kitsune refuse to talk to me the first time, but I was so mad about that I forgot to call Dark Blade and get them to open the gate!
contraddicted
Quote:
I check to see if the Potion Bottles got filled because when SNES9x records I can't hear any sound. 

Sounds familiar...
I suffered the same problem and solved it by simply changing the driver from "Snes9x DirectSound" to "Fmod DirectSound". (Version 1.43+ from TASvideos.net)

You most certainly tried this already but suggesting it anyway shouldn't hurt Wink
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
I'll have to give that a shot, EvilJogga.

Anyway, this is Part 7 of the speedrun.



I abridged it because YouTube doesn't take videos longer than 10 minutes, and this segment clocked at 14 thanks to 7 minutes spent leveling up in the Crypt. It's about the most efficient place to do so in the game, outside of Karma earned in a regular fashion. I figured that 30 Karma from the Crypt total would get me by, and that was trimming it a bit TOO close... had I bumped into fewer random enemies in Bremerton I would have been HOSED. I may earn 32 here in the final run.

Other than that, uh... it's the Dark Blade. Nothing hard here in the slightest. I can't believe I frickin' forgot to equip the Mesh Jacket when I picked it up, but it's the armor that carries me through the rest of the game.

I can't believe Frogtongue stuck with me through the segment. The counter for how many fights a Shadowrun sticks through with you must be on when the battle music ENDS, not when it begins, so if you run away it doesn't click. Even less reason to fight the random spawns along the way.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
OK, here's both sections of Part 8:




Bremerton has no especial challenges for the speedrunner. I do cut the Jester Spirit fight a bit close health-wise, but nothing too serious. Frogtongue leaves me, sigh. In the final version, I'll hold off on the Incubus/Octopus until after I finish the Jester to save on some time. Probably not MUCH time, but still some..

You'll notice I walk into the Drake Building at the end of the run. That's because I thought, "What a great idea it'd be to wipe through the second floor, get the nuyen to buy the Dermal Plating and Boosted Reflexes, and have all my Magic to clear out the other floors!" I wiffle about it for a minute or so before finally convincing myself it's a dumb idea because 1) my computer skill is 1, meaning I'd probably lose to the one IC in my way, and 2) my Invisibility spell is 1, meaning it'll only last 5 seconds. STUPID!

Improvisation is NOT to be trusted.

I'm uploading Part 9, and I'll probably record parts 10 and 11 tonight. Then all that remains is... buying the Shadowrun cartridge.

Can I still record on the VCR?
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
And THIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSS.... ISSSSSS.... PARRRRT NIIINE!





Drake's Tower was... surprisingly easy. I mean, I always knew Invisibility was the way to go, but I cruised through this. I just hope the real run is as smooth. I stutter a bit looking for a computer on floor 5, but overall not too shabby.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Here we go with part 10, almost over!




Drake went near-perfectly.

I was watching myself do this run when I thought to myself, "You know... just killing maybe 6 IC would speed up the segment up quite a bit. I've got the Magic to spare  for one extra cast of Heal..."

That means raising my Computer up to 6 earlier, but I'll gladly sacrifice one point of Body for that.

Ugh. I can't believe I forgot which case the Assault Cannon was in. I was cheesed.
Edit history:
iamfanboy: 2008-01-11 09:04:30 am
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
And the FINAL segment, boring as it is.



Huh. Not much to say. A bit of Matrix combat smoothed out the run. The Aneki building is cake if you've got Invisibility and the Assault Cannon.

You'll notice me walking in and out of the doors leading to the elevator room... and then you'll see why, as a Troll Decker hops out of the down elevator and starts blasting me. I was trying to make the up elevator go up instead of waiting for it to head down to the first floor, THEN go up, to avoid the Troll Decker. I screwed up, but not fatally. Could have been a run-ender right there.


The whole deal came out to about 2 hours and 4 minutes. I can easily get in under 2 hours; I just have to make FEWER STUPID MISTAKES, especially with menus, and kill some IC in the Matrix instead of walking all the way around them.

Oh, and if you're looking at my other videos and wondering, "Why the hell does he have 4 versions of the same Naruto AMV up?" It's because it took me a while to finally get the freakin' thing RIGHT. Very vexing, when our programs don't want to work right. If you want to watch it, watch the newest version of it; it doesn't look like the MCPC from Tron shat all over it.
commodore 64, baby
Any news on this one? I brought up the topic of speedrunning this in 2006 I believe, so of course I can't wait to see a full run of this Smiley
Edit history:
jam287: 2008-08-08 09:27:35 pm
I'd love to see this as a speed run.  This game was the weirdest game I ever played when I was young and I just couldn't figure it out.  When I got older though I replayed it and quickly fell in love with it, it's now one of my favorite SNES games of all time.  I also tried the Genesis version, didn't really like it that much but it seemed too hard for me to get very far so early in the game so I just stopped playing it.

Anyway yea keep this going!

EDIT: I watched some of the practice runs on youtube and they look great, but there are a ton of tiny mistakes such as running into walls, being slow at aiming at items/people, and picking the wrong options when talking that only cost a second or two but in the end they add up a lot because there were quite a few mistakes like that.  I know it doesn't matter much because it's the practice run, but if you can master the movements and selecting items and stuff you'll save at least a minute or so overall.  That's if the person who was doing this is still planning on running the game.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Well.

SNES Shadowrun cartridge - check.
Working SNES - check.
Gameplan - check.
DVD Recorder... uh.

Next week, I'm borrowing my neighbor's DVD recorder and I'm gonna try to rip through this - I just went through the game as a refresher and found a few minor things, but a sub 2-hour time is definitely possible. Maybe even sub 1 hour 40 minutes, if I bust my balls, and I think I will.

It'll be segmented, of course - I was thinking about a single-segment but the Arena rapes you every time. Or at least the first thirty practice trials, and frankly, I don't have the willpower to do that.

I found out some things - picking up nuyen from corpses is completely unnecessary, thank the Maker, and so is a level-building segment. Doing nothing but the absolute essentials still nets me enough Karma. Slap Patches are (still) useless, and Norbert is my good Shadowrunner buddy instead of Frogtongue.
you can record to VHS and mail it in, too
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
Quote from Nihilus:
you can record to VHS and mail it in, too

BBZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Incorrect, but thank you for playing!

Unless they changed the rules BACK since what, March? If so, it'd be a welcome change, I will admit.

But I'd rather have it on DVD, because then I can rip it myself and do little editing things, like combine the seven one-minute segments of the Arena fights into one segment (with clearly demarcated beginnings and endings so it's easier to time), and maybe even add a commentary track.

Which will be funny.
Been watching your practice run, top job! Can't wait to see how you save time on the SNES Cart!

Some things I picked up that could help:

-Last Aneki fight you are at the end of the game you can afford to not kill 3 of those guys in the final room before you blow up the main computer.
-Obvious wall clinging and running on your current route could be optimised by approx. 2-3mins.
-As this is a practice run the combat is understandable, if manipulating luck (retries for best possible damage taken/given per segment as well as enemy placement & nuyen) you would be able to save a lot more time maybe even 7-10 minutes. That's including imrpoved aiming, positioning and firing at enemies.
-What's the likelihood of keeping your health up through luck manipulation before you meet dog and get Heal spell on each segment? If you can stay alive without depending on heal for an extra segment you might be able to shave a few secs by not opening the gate fo rthe dog collar in 10th street til you have the bottle for the water.
-I couldn't keep track of the money you had earned but would it have been possible to get the bottle during the purchase of a firearm, so that the first time you meet dog you also have the bottle for the ink next door? that would also save time. if you didnt have the money would a cheaper firearm from old town have sufficed in the combat arena i wonder.
-keywords/menu speed could save 1-2mins on.
-rust stilletto fight might be possible to do in 1 segment through incredible luck, could also save a min or so. your choice of shadowrunner is a good one i wouldn't change that at all.

you have the ground work for a very solid run i dont see much improvement needed for the route you're taking in it.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
I can skip three guys? Which three? *loads up emulator to try again*

As far as luck manipulation goes, I found out (through my last run), that after I get enough nuyen for the Lone Star Badge, I don't have to pick up a SINGLE nuyen from random drops! So that means that my only 'luck manipulation' will have to be in the very first segment with the Snipers on the monorail station, which I've decided is going to end the first time I hit Jake's room. My goal there will be to kill 3 Snipers (which is the minimum you need) without dying.

The likelyhood is zero for keeping my health up. The problem is that to get the nuyen for the bottles I need to kill the Gang Leader in the Arena, and doing that without Heal would mean needing a much higher Body attribute.

Buying the Bottle while I pick up the gun upgrade isn't a bad idea, but I have to say no for a couple of reasons: 1) I wouldn't have the money to clear the Talismonger's shop out, which would mean two trips into his store, 2) buying an inferior pistol (even the Ruger Super Warhawk, the next step down) slows your killing potential.

Doing the Rust Stilettos fight in one segment would require more than incredible luck, it would need a masochistic luck. Not only would I have to make it past the snipers in front of Maplethorpe's office without getting touched (an impossibility there), but it would mean clearing out the first two segments without getting touched, since the Gang Leader and the melee Gangmember frag you up badly - and since my nuyen will be so tight I can't afford any slap patches...

Well, if someone else wants to bust my run with that trick, they can, but me? I've got this medical condition called 'ahlief' which prevents me from spending a ballbusting amount of time on one very, very annoying segment. thirty-odd failures in a row in the practice... just ugh.

but yes, I've changed my route around quite a bit from that version. I won't say how, though, so that people will be pleasantly surprised....
Well that's actually really helpful that the only luck manipulation you require is at the beginning part of the game.  Don't forget that you can sometimes find up to 100-150 dollars in the cemetery relatively quickly by breaking into the tombs and searching the caskets.  Though you have to open each tomb to really maximize the chances of finding all the nuyen quickly, and sometimes you'll be attacked by zombies instead of finding cash, which might make it not worth the time. 
Hey was also on about luck manipulation as in, top firearm results in terms of delay between hits as well as damage given/taken. Also was referring to nuyen as well which you dig Cheesy you're right the ruger would be no good it would only serve well in the first 5-7 battles and of course you wouldnt have left the car park by then.

i have done the rust stilletto fight with 110 hp and the dwarf guy but obviously this wouldnt work in speedrunning. is it viable to sacrifice karma needed to boost heal spell and magic bar to up your health a tiny bit, thus makign it possible to reduce the 2 segments to 1 segment for rust stilettos?? i mean, if you keep the current shadowrunner you have. and maybe get the slap patches to do the job via nuyen drops.

ps. where is it you get the slap patches again, the guy witht he lone star badge or one of the runners/ bar patrons? depending who i could help you in terms of a way to raise money for more patches without compromising the route or much tiem on your run. i used to own the us and pal carts and i can say the enemy layouts are identical and i know them by heart almost.
I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.
There are two points you can buy slap patches: from a kid in the caryards, and from Dr. Maplethorpe. The problem is that at the points I'm near those two places, my nuyen situation is tighter than a choirboy's anus after hearing that the priest wants to have a "one on one conversation to hear the highest note you can sing."

I could buy up to 5 Slap Patches by hiring Frogtongue instead of Norbert; the problem is that Frogtongue doesn't dish out the same amount of damage Norbert can so it might well be a bad tradeoff. I'll... give it another go tonight, after I've played a relaxing amount of Bully (just started playing it for the first time).
Hi again!

Okay, best bet for you might be the caryards, in terms of lucky nuyen and enemy encounters - the guys on the rooftops dish out the most money. there's one by the 10th street station, and one by the cage nightclub in the beginning section - combined i think its 80-120 nuyen? then you have the sniper in the trash who can dish out 30 nuyen. in terms of bulk enemy encounter if you need to get more nuyen best room is just before your hotel apartment in 10th street it can house up to 4 enemies but thats rare. if you get 3 that's a safe bet cos its up to 60 nuyen a time.. cant remember. there's also the 20 you get in the filing cabinet.

my guess is if you bulk up nuyen for the lonestar badge and 1 slap patch for the rust stillettos, then get norbert - its doable as 1 segment for the rust stillettos gang. as i say i got through them with 110 just fine. as you're getting the slap patch it might be worth seeing if you can gt a huge encounter in the area below (up to 4 enemies in car yards, 80 nuyen) and buy a grenade. it could mean you do the combat arena better without having to go after a new weapon, which again could aide your route planning.

now for rust stils fight obv you'll want min possible encounter with max nuyen. so ideally you'd want no guys in windows, 1-2 guys in teh trashcans (norbert kills em straight away almost) and then procede to finish the battle. dont worry about healing norbert if he dies he dies just beast the rust stillettos! again this might take a looot of retries lol