Shadowrun (SNES) - October 4th, 2009

2009-10-04 11:26:38 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet.

Verifier Responses

Quote:

Verifier: I'd say "reject"
Verifier: the planning is good
Verifier: especially the way money is planned ahead well
Verifier: however, the execution is just ugh
Verifier: there are mistakes like choosing the same dialogue option twice and wasting several seconds
Verifier: or saving in a segment that turned out to be unnecessary

Quote:

Thanks mkuyma,

The run has no player deaths, and nothing irregular in the stats or money or items.
Aside from a couple of running/shooting sections having slight errors the run is of good quality and would be difficult to match. I can see no more than 3-5 minutes being shaved off of this run and that would involve countless retries plus huge luck manipulation.

Each segment is seperated by the use of a bed (in which you can save the game and restore your health) and there was one segment iamfanboy could have split into two for the sake of consistency, much like his comments suggested.

Hope this helps.

Quote:

Audio is fine (and the soundtrack here is legit). Video is a little fuzzier than I remember, but it's not a big deal. No cheats, durr.

I won't do my normal segment breakdown because most of what I say applies to the whole run.

The general planning of this run is good. Not a whole lot of wasted time getting from A to B, thankfully. I'm not sure of some of the choices made, and I can't really give deference to the runner for a few reasons. This includes fighting your way out of the car yard instead of paying your way out, making a 'tactical retreat' from the last room of the Rust Stilettos, or trying to cram so much in the 14th segment.

More importantly, though, there are a lot of flaws in the play quality itself. Lots of stumbling around the interface, lots of bumping in to static objects, lots of doubling back. LOTS of really unacceptable luck in some of the fights. These are all things that should have been polished with segmentation, but it seems like a lot of things were let to slide so long as the general concept came to pass. I admittedly stopped watching segments after the first 14, since I already knew that it was easily improvable with some quality control.

I'm sure the runner will have a great version of this run in the near future, but there is no way I can accept this run as is. Fix the errors and chunks of time will start disappearing. I'd also like to see some definitive comparisons between the multiple options of progress and how they affect karma/time/money.

Decision: Reject

Reason: The planning is mostly good, but the execution needs a lot of work. Even the verifier who accepted said the run could be improved by 3-5 minutes, which is a lot for a segmented run.

The run will be available for download upon request until November 4th. PM me if you want the run.

Thread title:

Game Page: Doesn't exist yet.

[b]Verifier Responses[/b]

[quote]Verifier: I'd say "reject"
Verifier: the planning is good
Verifier: especially the way money is planned ahead well
Verifier: however, the execution is just ugh
Verifier: there are mistakes like choosing the same dialogue option twice and wasting several seconds
Verifier: or saving in a segment that turned out to be unnecessary[/quote]

[quote]Thanks mkuyma,

The run has no player deaths, and nothing irregular in the stats or money or items.
Aside from a couple of running/shooting sections having slight errors the run is of good quality and would be difficult to match. I can see no more than 3-5 minutes being shaved off of this run and that would involve countless retries plus huge luck manipulation.

Each segment is seperated by the use of a bed (in which you can save the game and restore your health) and there was one segment iamfanboy could have split into two for the sake of consistency, much like his comments suggested.

Hope this helps.[/quote]

[quote]Audio is fine (and the soundtrack here is legit).  Video is a little fuzzier than I remember, but it's not a big deal.  No cheats, durr.

I won't do my normal segment breakdown because most of what I say applies to the whole run.

The general planning of this run is good.  Not a whole lot of wasted time getting from A to B, thankfully.  I'm not sure of some of the choices made, and I can't really give deference to the runner for a few reasons.  This includes fighting your way out of the car yard instead of paying your way out, making a 'tactical retreat' from the last room of the Rust Stilettos, or trying to cram so much in the 14th segment.

More importantly, though, there are a lot of flaws in the play quality itself.  Lots of stumbling around the interface, lots of bumping in to static objects, lots of doubling back.  LOTS of really unacceptable luck in some of the fights.  These are all things that should have been polished with segmentation, but it seems like a lot of things were let to slide so long as the general concept came to pass.  I admittedly stopped watching segments after the first 14, since I already knew that it was easily improvable with some quality control.

I'm sure the runner will have a great version of this run in the near future, but there is no way I can accept this run as is.  Fix the errors and chunks of time will start disappearing.  I'd also like to see some definitive comparisons between the multiple options of progress and how they affect karma/time/money.[/quote]

[b]Decision[/b]: Reject

[b]Reason[/b]: The planning is mostly good, but the execution needs a lot of work. Even the verifier who accepted said the run could be improved by 3-5 minutes, which is a lot for a segmented run.

The run will be available for download upon request until November 4th. PM me if you want the run.

iamfanboy

2009-10-06 02:16:05 am

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Thanks, all, for watching my run - and I agree with you all. The only pathetic excuse I can offer is that I was over at a friend's house, and I rushed it because I didn't want to impose on him.

Since I'm redoing it as I type (well, taking a break after a practice segment), I wanted to comment on two parts of a reviewer's statements:

Quote:

I'm not sure of some of the choices made, and I can't really give deference to the runner for a few reasons. This includes fighting your way out of the car yard instead of paying your way out, making a 'tactical retreat' from the last room of the Rust Stilettos, or trying to cram so much in the 14th segment.

Fighting my way out of the Caryards accomplishes two things: 1) Gives me enough money to buy the Defiance T250, a gun that will carry me through most of the game (along with the other necessities), and 2) avoids having to pay the King 4,000 nuyen to leave (or 1,000+karma for negotiation to 2, and 2,000 nuyen after that). It was something I thought long about, but the time spent killing the King now is more than made up for by using the better gun - particularly when the defense of the enemies starts picking up.

Damage in this game is (random number between 1 and Gun Attack Power)-Defense=damage, and the next step below the Defiance (Ruger Super Warhawk) costs 9k nuyen and has 6 power, versus 8 for the Defiance. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but in the next area some enemies have 3-4 defense and that can put a serious crimp in a run with a Warhawk. (I actually would have skipped the Ferocious Ork instead of the King, if the Warhawk would've done the job, but sadly it just doesn't work.)

Unfortunately, I don't have a choice about retreating from the Rust Stilettos interior room. Without a Heal spell, my only resort is Slap Patches, and those only cure a measly 10 HP at a time - and they cost 100 nuyen apiece. If I hire Frogtongue instead of Norbert, I could buy 4-5 Slap Patches (you can carry a max of 6, by the way), but even they aren't enough to get me through both parts of the Rust Stilettos building - originally that was my plan, but about an hour of failed attempts on a rom savestate (go in, shoot 'em up, die, reload, die, reload, die, usually took about 30-40 seconds, so call it 80 failed attempts?) proved to me that it's pretty damn near impossible to do it successfully in one go.

Segment 14 was... a mistake. I think instead I'll save after getting the strobes et al, then do the Vampire mansion. Split it up into 3 segments.

Anyway, those were the only comments that I wanted to protest, since they're decisions I agonized over and arrived at this as the optimal route.

Thanks, all, for watching my run - and I agree with you all. The only pathetic excuse I can offer is that I was over at a friend's house, and I rushed it because I didn't want to impose on him.

Since I'm redoing it as I type (well, taking a break after a practice segment), I wanted to comment on two parts of a reviewer's statements:

[quote] I'm not sure of some of the choices made, and I can't really give deference to the runner for a few reasons.  This includes fighting your way out of the car yard instead of paying your way out, making a 'tactical retreat' from the last room of the Rust Stilettos, or trying to cram so much in the 14th segment.
[/quote]

Fighting my way out of the Caryards accomplishes two things: 1) Gives me enough money to buy the Defiance T250, a gun that will carry me through most of the game (along with the other necessities), and 2) avoids having to pay the King 4,000 nuyen to leave (or 1,000+karma for negotiation to 2, and 2,000 nuyen after that). It was something I thought long about, but the time spent killing the King now is more than made up for by using the better gun - particularly when the defense of the enemies starts picking up.

Damage in this game is (random number between 1 and Gun Attack Power)-Defense=damage, and the next step below the Defiance (Ruger Super Warhawk) costs 9k nuyen and has 6 power, versus 8 for the Defiance. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but in the next area some enemies have 3-4 defense and that can put a serious crimp in a run with a Warhawk. (I actually would have skipped the Ferocious Ork instead of the King, if the Warhawk would've done the job, but sadly it just doesn't work.)

Unfortunately, I don't [i]have[/i] a choice about retreating from the Rust Stilettos interior room. Without a Heal spell, my only resort is Slap Patches, and those only cure a measly 10 HP at a time - and they cost 100 nuyen apiece. If I hire Frogtongue instead of Norbert, I could buy 4-5 Slap Patches (you can carry a max of 6, by the way), but even they aren't enough to get me through both parts of the Rust Stilettos building - originally that was my plan, but about an hour of failed attempts on a rom savestate (go in, shoot 'em up, die, reload, die, reload, die, usually took about 30-40 seconds, so call it 80 failed attempts?) proved to me that it's pretty damn near impossible to do it successfully in one go.

Segment 14 was... a mistake. I think instead I'll save after getting the strobes et al, then do the Vampire mansion. Split it up into 3 segments.

Anyway, those were the only comments that I wanted to protest, since they're decisions I agonized over and arrived at this as the optimal route.

iamfanboy

2009-10-07 02:37:27 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

It takes a big man to admit he's wrong.

Fortunately, I'm just barely large enough to do it.

It IS possible to do both halves of the Rust Stilettos house in one go - provided I raise my Charisma, hire a second shadowrunner (Frogtongue and Norbert), and buy some Slap Patches. I can do that by buying the Warhawk instead of the Defiance; sadly, the money necessary still means I have to beat both the Ferocious Ork and the King.

The plus side is that with their help I can skip the Defiance, buy the HK227 Assault Rifle when I upgrade my cyberware, and avoid having to leave the Drake Tower level until I run out of Magic.

WHICH... MEANS... REDOING... ALL THE PARTS OF THE RUN I JUST REDID.... including a bloody near perfect first segment.

Zurreco

2009-10-07 04:50:41 pm

Just call me the cynicism machine

I'm glad to hear that you were able to work around some of the things I had trouble with in the submitted version. Keep up the improvements!

thri11ki11

2009-10-07 06:09:16 pm

Don't MAKE me come down these stairs

Quote from iamfanboy:

WHICH... MEANS... REDOING... ALL THE PARTS OF THE RUN I JUST REDID.... including a bloody near perfect first segment.

Keep the faith, brother. It sounds like you're on the road to getting a verifiable run. Don't give up!

iamfanboy

2009-10-07 11:19:40 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

I just threw my damn controller.

I just finished segment 14 and was doing 15, finished off the Dark Blade mansion, go up to get the ice dumped at the docks - and then realized that I DIDN'T GET THE DOCKS KEYWORD in segment 11.

This means I can 1) add 41 seconds to the time of segment 15 to go and get the DOCKS keyword, or 2) I can redo the last week and a half of work, redoing the game from the start AGAIN, to make up those 41 seconds.

And it wouldn't be so bad if only Shadowrun had more than two damned save slots!

My head is hurting. My ulcers are ulcerating. I think I'm gonna play some Disgaea.

feasel

2009-10-08 12:36:28 am

difficult and stupidly random

Personally, i wouldn't blame you for eating the 41 seconds to instead of re-doing the whole run from scratch. (then again, i am not going to be one of the reviewers, so who cares what i think)

mikwuyma

2009-10-08 07:28:27 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Maybe you should take a break from the game for a couple of days to calm down, then come back to the game. It sounds like you'll burn out otherwise, and that wouldn't be cool.

MAS8705

2009-10-08 09:25:47 am

SDA Apprentice -- (3-1)

It's hard on a runner when they know their run is rejected, I should know... But yea, its good to know your not letting it get to you...

Mike does have a point though, the last thing you want to is to try again so quickly and try to burn yourself out trying to fix that part of the run... I know that while I have been trying to fix my run I have been taking breaks by working on other games...

I wish I could have seen the run, so I'm going to make a request for it... Don't give up, but take your time and you will have this run fixed in no time...

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-08 11:32:15 am

contraddicted

Quote from mikwuyma:

Maybe you should take a break from the game for a couple of days to calm down, then come back to the game. It sounds like you'll burn out otherwise, and that wouldn't be cool.

I second this!
If it's not burn out, you will ruin the game for yourself because of just being tooooo pissed.
Put the catridge away and choose a number of days between 3 and 14 in which you will not play it. Then go back to it and rock it.

Khaos4wood

2009-10-08 01:01:03 pm

:(

Quote from EvilJogga:

Put the catridge away and choose a number of days between 3 and 14 in which you will not play it. Then go back to it and rock it.

Roll 2 dice? That's 2-12 I know, but it makes it easier to decide.

Can't wait for the run, Shadowrun SNES is one of my favorite games of all time. I think I may play through it again before the new run gets submitted 8)

iamfanboy

2009-10-09 02:05:21 am

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

I think what I'm going to do instead is continue this run, not record it, but take my time - talk to all the folks that I don't usually talk to in-game, goof around, maybe record some of the weird little things for a blooper reel (like what happens if you shoot Drake), and have FUN with it.

Seriously, man, stress will kill ya. Cheesy

EdCarnby

2009-10-09 11:54:51 am

Old young man

This is sounding more promising each time. I love this game and there is always a faster time round the corner (which I know you'll eventually achieve Smiley

). Keep it up, man.

iamfanboy

2009-10-11 03:05:22 am

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Well, I'm gonna restart again tomorrow (if only because someone e;se is horning in on MY prospective Dragon Quest 8 run, and now I want to get this thing finished so I can move on!), but I'm glad I decided to take the time to go through the rest of the game again, because my money planning is... short at the very end, to the tune of 5 grand.

So I'll have to skip the Dermal Implants to get the Enfield AS7, which is necessary to finish the Aneki Building in one trip. Good planning is the essence of good speedrunning. I guess skipping the Implants will save 40-odd seconds of time in the surgery, and it won't reduce time spent by all that much except for needing an additional heal in the Drake Building and the Volcano.

EdCarnby

2009-10-11 02:41:06 pm

Old young man

Okay dude,

If I find any other possible time savers I'll post it in the discussion area.

sagema

2009-10-12 02:00:44 am

Always, and I mean always record(if it's to a hard drive)! It breaks the mindset that you need to make that run count. There's always a chance that run was your fastest run ever. Don't let any kind of time line pressure you into completing it. Take your time, but always record. I record and delete as much as I want on my hard drive. It's less stressful than VHS tapes.

iamfanboy

2009-10-14 07:48:08 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

I have about 10 blank vhs cassettes, so that's not my worry. I'm not a perfectionist anyway; as long as I don't mess up more than 2 seconds in a segment I'm fine.

My worry is ANOTHER CONTROLLER-THROWING MOMENT, THIS ONE EVEN WORSE THAN THE LAST ONE.

OMFG.

So in order to get spells, you've gotta collect 2 components. For invisibility, you need clean and dirty water. I forgot to get the clean water WHEN I WAS SUPPOSED TO, and going out of my way to do it... is even worse.

What makes it even harder to swallow is that I got FARTHER than I did in my last run, and the segment I screwed up on was 15... that I'd just saved over to start segment 17.

I'm restarting right now. The game isn't that hard, I just keep forgetting what I have to do, dammit... AFTER reviewing my notes, and AFTER doing a practice run first! I might as well be doing this fcking thing single-segment.

And here I thought I'd be done tonight. <_<

ZenicReverie

2009-10-14 10:00:44 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from iamfanboy:

I have about 10 blank vhs cassettes, so that's not my worry. I'm not a perfectionist anyway; as long as I don't mess up more than 2 seconds in a segment I'm fine.

My worry is ANOTHER CONTROLLER-THROWING MOMENT, THIS ONE EVEN WORSE THAN THE LAST ONE.

OMFG.

So in order to get spells, you've gotta collect 2 components. For invisibility, you need clean and dirty water. I forgot to get the clean water WHEN I WAS SUPPOSED TO, and going out of my way to do it... is even worse.

What makes it even harder to swallow is that I got FARTHER than I did in my last run, and the segment I screwed up on was 15... that I'd just saved over to start segment 17.

I'm restarting right now. The game isn't that hard, I just keep forgetting what I have to do, dammit... AFTER reviewing my notes, and AFTER doing a practice run first! I might as well be doing this fcking thing single-segment.

And here I thought I'd be done tonight. <_<

Sounds like you need to start a checklist of what items you need to have at the end/beginning of each segment. When you think you've got a good enough segment, before you start the next one, consult your checklist.

[quote="iamfanboy"]
I have about 10 blank vhs cassettes, so that's not my worry. I'm not a perfectionist anyway; as long as I don't mess up more than 2 seconds in a segment I'm fine.

My worry is ANOTHER CONTROLLER-THROWING MOMENT, THIS ONE EVEN WORSE THAN THE LAST ONE.

OMFG.

So in order to get spells, you've gotta collect 2 components. For invisibility, you need clean and dirty water. I forgot to get the clean water WHEN I WAS SUPPOSED TO, and going out of my way to do it... is even worse.

What makes it even harder to swallow is that I got FARTHER than I did in my last run, and the segment I screwed up on was 15... [i]that I'd just saved over to start segment 17[/i].

I'm restarting right now. The game isn't [i]that hard[/i], I just keep forgetting what I have to do, dammit... AFTER reviewing my notes, and AFTER doing a practice run first! I might as well be doing this fcking thing single-segment.

And here I thought I'd be done tonight. <_<
[/quote]
Sounds like you need to start a checklist of what items you need to have at the end/beginning of each segment. When you think you've got a good enough segment, before you start the next one, consult your checklist.