RPG runs: what's faster?

2016-01-10 04:10:38 am

When doing an RPG run, which strategy works faster:
1. Training up to a ridiculously high level in the beginning, then just progressing without much training through the rest of the game.
2. Constantly remaining at a minimum level throughout the game, but taking time for a little training and getting many items to match for the level deficit.

I know it may depend upon the game, but in general, what's better?

Thread title:

Arctice

2016-01-10 07:50:32 am

Most RPG runs I've seen do basically what you've described in the 2. Doing early level grinds happens in games that have some sort of an experience glitch or something else that lets you get very powerful very fast.

Sir VG

2016-01-10 09:22:54 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Xenoblade Chronicles is one of the few that grinds early, and that's only because of a glitch that allows them to get to an extremely late game section at the very start, allowing them to get from Lv 10 to Lv 50 in a few moments. In general, #2 is more prominent because most early game spots for getting EXP are way worse than the late game spots.

Melodia

2016-01-10 01:32:39 pm

It completely depends on the game, but yeah, most games lean much more toward #2. For grinding to be faster, there needs to be a consistent way of gaining power fast. There are some that do -- Disgaea 2 is a good example, as is FF Tactics (in COMPLETELY different ways, despite both being TRPGs), but most of the time you simply run through fighting as few battles as possible, possibly grinding at specific points.

Tide

2016-01-11 07:31:06 am

Insanity Prelude

Option 2 is almost always the superior option. This is typically due to EXP degradation, where as you gain levels, the experience needed to get to the next level becomes higher and higher. As a result, EXP from bosses does less overall to a party at an average level versus one that is below average. This in turn means that overtime, your stats basically end up being about the same, so there is virtually no time saved from power leveling.

The above is further emphasized when there are other methods for winning fights quickly rather than using levels. Look at Star Ocean 3, Valkyrie Profile 2, and FFX. In each of those games there is often something more useful than leveling. If the game you're playing doesn't utilize level in its damage formula, going from point a) to point b) will typically be faster if encounters are outright eliminated.

Some exceptions which I am aware of are the Persona Games and last I checked, Grandia 2. Persona games need levels in order to fuse better Persona whereas in Grandia 2, there is a boss in the game where if you fight it without grinding a little bit, it becomes very inconsistent and dangerous. The grinding that you do carries forward to other fights so the time spent is made up for by shaving time in other fights as well. Dragon Quest games are another series where grinding is almost mandatory, although I believe the main reason is needing stats and abilities.

Option 2 is almost always the superior option. This is typically due to EXP degradation, where as you gain levels, the experience needed to get to the next level becomes higher and higher. As a result, EXP from bosses does less overall to a party at an average level versus one that is below average. This in turn means that overtime, your stats basically end up being about the same, so there is virtually no time saved from power leveling.

The above is further emphasized when there are other methods for winning fights quickly rather than using levels. Look at Star Ocean 3, Valkyrie Profile 2, and FFX. In each of those games there is often something more useful than leveling. If the game you're playing doesn't utilize level in its damage formula, going from point a) to point b) will typically be faster if encounters are outright eliminated.

Some exceptions which I am aware of are the Persona Games and last I checked, Grandia 2. Persona games need levels in order to fuse better Persona whereas in Grandia 2, there is a boss in the game where if you fight it without grinding a little bit, it becomes very inconsistent and dangerous. The grinding that you do carries forward to other fights so the time spent is made up for by shaving time in other fights as well. Dragon Quest games are another series where grinding is almost mandatory, although I believe the main reason is needing stats and abilities.

Crow!

2016-01-11 12:42:01 pm

What's that gemma?

In most RPGs, the amount of stuff (experience, etc) that you earn per minute spent fighting gets better the longer you hold out before leveling up. So, unless there is a particular enemy that is exceptionally good (for example, a metal slime), you generally want to stay at a low level early to benefit from better grinding later.

Some RPGs can be completed without stopping to fight optional battles at all if you abuse the combat system enough. If you do stop to grind, you should usually be grinding to get something specific (e.g. to learn a skill that you need).

ais523

2016-01-12 07:50:05 pm

I guess this is just another instance of the general phenomenon in which any% runs are normally much closer percentage-wise to low% than to 100%. For things that aren't mandatory, whether upgrades or grinding, it's rare for them to save the time they cost. From a game design point of view, this is because something if that does save that much time, it's typically completely broken from a balance perspective.

kirbymastah

2016-01-13 09:42:52 am

<(^_^)>

It's generally a case by case scenario. From what I observe, you almost always want to avoid grinding whenever possible, so going by with minimal grinding is the best way to go.

Of course there are games that go the other route. In Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance & Radiant Dawn, you grind a few characters early on with BEXP so they're capable of clearing chapters super quickly. This is because pumping BEXP into characters takes so little time (compared to grinding in some other S/RPG games), and the payoff is so worth it.

theunoriginalname

2016-01-20 06:26:18 pm

I think a fairly common element in RPG speedruns isn't full blown grinding but does involve killing other characters so one character gets all the experience, which in turn means you do less overall grinding because that one character gains enormous amounts of experience from specific, strategically planned battles

ais523

2016-01-22 01:10:11 am

Oh, that's a good point. In party-based RNGs in which experience is split between characters, it's normally best to solo the game to gain experience faster. (Depending on the game, you might do that by only focusing on one character and using the others on rare occasions, as in most Pokémon games, or via killing all but one character and not reviving them, as in Final Fantasy.)