Requesting Clarification On Run Submission

2012-11-12 12:23:39 am

I've recorded a segmented run for Jedi Outcast and there's a few things I'd like to ask about before deciding to submit.

I've heard that Nate is kind enough to encode runs for other people, but if I would like to have him handle it should I contact him before submitting the run or will the files be passed on to him after I send them in?

When sending in a multi-segment run is the choice between sending in the individual level files or editing them together into one video purely down to personal preference? Is one format preferable to the other when encoding or uploading?

It is my understanding that level load times are including in the timing but load times when loading a segment are not. Is this correct? I would like to edit out any part of the run that doesn't count towards the final time, unless that's a problem.

Finally, I feel the quality of my recording is sufficient but it doesn't hurt to slap this up here in case anyone wants to give a second oppinion. I don't know a thing about encoding, so be warned it's the raw video file straight from Fraps.
http://www.mediafire.com/?3xmjifon1g2iclg

Thread title:

I've recorded a segmented run for Jedi Outcast and there's a few things I'd like to ask about before deciding to submit.

I've heard that Nate is kind enough to encode runs for other people, but if I would like to have him handle it should I contact him before submitting the run or will the files be passed on to him after I send them in?

When sending in a multi-segment run is the choice between sending in the individual level files or editing them together into one video purely down to personal preference? Is one format preferable to the other when encoding or uploading?

It is my understanding that level load times are including in the timing but load times when loading a segment are not. Is this correct? I would like to edit out any part of the run that doesn't count towards the final time, unless that's a problem.

Finally, I feel the quality of my recording is sufficient but it doesn't hurt to slap this up here in case anyone wants to give a second oppinion. I don't know a thing about encoding, so be warned it's the raw video file straight from Fraps.
http://www.mediafire.com/?3xmjifon1g2iclg

Sir VG

2012-11-12 12:48:53 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote:

I've heard that Nate is kind enough to encode runs for other people, but if I would like to have him handle it should I contact him before submitting the run or will the files be passed on to him after I send them in?

When you send in your submission notes, you'll just indicate whether you or nate will encode. You'll get told when to send in the files to nate, no matter who's encoding.

Quote:

When sending in a multi-segment run is the choice between sending in the individual level files or editing them together into one video purely down to personal preference? Is one format preferable to the other when encoding or uploading?

Depends on if the run is a segmented run or an Individual Level run. If it's the latter, they should be separate. As for the former, either is fine - just a matter of preference. I personally think they should be separate files though.

Quote:

It is my understanding that level load times are including in the timing but load times when loading a segment are not. Is this correct? I would like to edit out any part of the run that doesn't count towards the final time, unless that's a problem.

Trimming a bit at the beginning and end is ok, but nothing during the level. If your game is PC, typically load times aren't counted as they can be different from one comp to another.

I won't judge the encode though. I'll leave that for somebody better qualified.

[quote]I've heard that Nate is kind enough to encode runs for other people, but if I would like to have him handle it should I contact him before submitting the run or will the files be passed on to him after I send them in?[/quote]
When you send in your submission notes, you'll just indicate whether you or nate will encode. You'll get told when to send in the files to nate, no matter who's encoding.

[quote]When sending in a multi-segment run is the choice between sending in the individual level files or editing them together into one video purely down to personal preference? Is one format preferable to the other when encoding or uploading?[/quote]
Depends on if the run is a segmented run or an Individual Level run. If it's the latter, they should be separate. As for the former, either is fine - just a matter of preference. I personally think they should be separate files though.

[quote]It is my understanding that level load times are including in the timing but load times when loading a segment are not. Is this correct? I would like to edit out any part of the run that doesn't count towards the final time, unless that's a problem. [/quote]
Trimming a bit at the beginning and end is ok, but nothing during the level. If your game is PC, typically load times aren't counted as they can be different from one comp to another.

I won't judge the encode though. I'll leave that for somebody better qualified.

IsraeliRD

2012-11-12 01:10:10 am

Dragon Power Supreme

Load times are not included in timing since your run is on PC (fyi I'll be timing your speedrun), and since you are PC then you can take out the load times. Note some people do leave them in only for verification purposes and take them out in the final encodes. If you want to make my life easier, cut them out Wink

If you do send it to nate and want him to cut parts of the videos (especially load times) then it's highly recommended you get VirtualDub and find out the frames where the loading sections occur so that you can give it to nate and he'll cut them out for you. Otherwise it'll stay in full.
As Sir VG said, you should indicate nate will encode, but you should remember the raw FRAPS file can be gigantic, so try and use Anri-Chan as it's very good (especially for PC games).

voxcy1

2012-11-13 10:14:57 am

Hi there.

I happened to come across this thread and I too have some timing related questions in addition to the ones already answered.

When doing a segmented run, do you get a save penalty for every first segment of each level?
For instance, let's say that you in an FPS game complete first level in one go, and then, before continuing to complete the second level, you're taking a break. Upon completion of the first level, the game automatically generates a save file that, when loaded, puts you in the beginning of the second level.
Do you get a save penalty for stopping the first segment after completion of first level and starting a new segment in level 2?
I realize this was expressed somewhat badly and hope someone knows what I mean.

I have another question, it's about cutscenes in games.
Let's say that there is a cutscene in a level. When triggering the start of this cutscene, you have the option of waiting for the scene to finish, and you have the option of "skipping" the cutscene by pressing a certain key.
In Jedi Outcast for instance, you can skip some cutscenes by pressing and holding a specified key. This does not "skip" the scene instantly, but it speeds up the scene drastically. Now, here comes the interesting thing: depending on how fast your computer is and the timing of your button pressing, the duration of that cutscene varies. My question, then, is: does the time spent in these cutscenes count in the final game completion time? If it does, I think it's a little unfair that some of that time is dependent on the specifications of your computer. I think a more fair solution would be to decide a constant amount of time for each cutscene so that these cutscenes do not affect the player's ability to complete the game as fast as possible.

Hi there.

I happened to come across this thread and I too have some timing related questions in addition to the ones already answered.

When doing a segmented run, do you get a save penalty for every first segment of each level? 
For instance, let's say that you in an FPS game complete first level in one go, and then, before continuing to complete the second level, you're taking a break. Upon completion of the first level, the game automatically generates a save file that, when loaded, puts you in the beginning of the second level. 
Do you get a save penalty for stopping the first segment after completion of first level and starting a new segment in level 2?
I realize this was expressed somewhat badly and hope someone knows what I mean.

I have another question, it's about cutscenes in games. 
Let's say that there is a cutscene in a level. When triggering the start of this cutscene, you have the option of waiting for the scene to finish, and you have the option of "skipping" the cutscene by pressing a certain key. 
In Jedi Outcast for instance, you can skip some cutscenes by pressing and holding a specified key. This does not "skip" the scene instantly, but it speeds up the scene drastically. Now, here comes the interesting thing: depending on how fast your computer is and the timing of your button pressing, the duration of that cutscene varies. My question, then, is: does the time spent in these cutscenes count in the final game completion time? If it does, I think it's a little unfair that some of that time is dependent on the specifications of your computer. I think a more fair solution would be to decide a constant amount of time for each cutscene so that these cutscenes do not affect the player's ability to complete the game as fast as possible.

Sir VG

2012-11-13 11:37:46 am

Fucking Weeaboo

To my recollection, save penalties only occur for stuff like quick saves. If the game auto-saves after completing a level and you start a segment after that, no penalty would apply. The save penalty is to basically prevent "walk two steps, save. walk two steps, save" crap.

Cutscenes: There's only one game where I've seen a cutscene fastforward instead of skip (The Last Story on Wii) but timing isn't an issue since the timing would be consistent, since it's a console game. If a PC game has that type of cutscene feature and can be wildly different due to PC speeds, one thing that may be done is to treat it like PC load times, which are NOT counted at all. This likely will mean that the in-game timer is completely ignored.

honorableJay

Edit history:

honorableJay: 2012-11-13 05:03:51 pm

2012-11-13 04:56:33 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

I've played Jedi Outcast on 3 different machines, all with vastly different makeups (crap-top, old Athlon XP, and my current Q6600) and the cutscene skips were always the same speed. I think what he's noticed about Outcast is a bit different. You can skip the cutscenes with a keypress at the right time, but if you spam that input key or hold it the game has a tendency to delay the skip until long after you've stopped pressing/holding the key. In this instance I believe the in-game cutscene would count against your time, but I'm not sure about the .bik movie cutscenes.

To Bacn: Any specific reason the video has a resolution of 640x506 instead of 640x480? Is that what Fraps spits out if you do half-size for 1280x1024? The quality looks fine, but I would suggest you boost the in game gamma up a bit so the footage isn't so dark. I'm also assuming your system has a hard time doing 60fps consistently? If so then the 30fps is fine.

Bacn

2012-11-13 11:28:58 pm

Quote from honorableJay:

To Bacn: Any specific reason the video has a resolution of 640x506 instead of 640x480? Is that what Fraps spits out if you do half-size for 1280x1024? The quality looks fine, but I would suggest you boost the in game gamma up a bit so the footage isn't so dark. I'm also assuming your system has a hard time doing 60fps consistently? If so then the 30fps is fine.

I'm not entirely sure about the resolution. I play the game in windowed mode and since Windows 7 forces the top bar of games to always be shown and the only guess I have is that Fraps is ignoring the bar but not catching any part of the game that might be below the bottom of my screen. I didn't notice the resolution was slightly weird like that.

To everyone else, thank you for the replies!

IsraeliRD

2012-11-13 11:41:51 pm

Dragon Power Supreme

Regarding save penalties, it basically applies to any game where you can save anywhere. Games like Final Fantasy and other RPGs where you can't save anywhere you want but only in specific spots/locations don't get this save penalty. Likewise a game that autosaves after a level or a certain spot (e.g. Gears of War) would not have any save penalty.

Additionally based on what honorableJay said it appears that therefore all in-game cutscenes would be included in the timing. However I would like some explanation re: the bik cutscenes and where they happen as that might be different, but this you can bring in a PM with me.

voxcy1

2012-11-18 04:03:46 am

Quote from honorableJay:

I've played Jedi Outcast on 3 different machines, all with vastly different makeups (crap-top, old Athlon XP, and my current Q6600) and the cutscene skips were always the same speed. I think what he's noticed about Outcast is a bit different. You can skip the cutscenes with a keypress at the right time, but if you spam that input key or hold it the game has a tendency to delay the skip until long after you've stopped pressing/holding the key. In this instance I believe the in-game cutscene would count against your time, but I'm not sure about the .bik movie cutscenes.

Aha, it seems I've drawn a false conclusion then. Thanks for pointing out.

Quote from IsraeliRD:

Regarding save penalties, it basically applies to any game where you can save anywhere. Games like Final Fantasy and other RPGs where you can't save anywhere you want but only in specific spots/locations don't get this save penalty. Likewise a game that autosaves after a level or a certain spot (e.g. Gears of War) would not have any save penalty.

Additionally based on what honorableJay said it appears that therefore all in-game cutscenes would be included in the timing. However I would like some explanation re: the bik cutscenes and where they happen as that might be different, but this you can bring in a PM with me.

OK, so in conclusion, save penalties only occur when you're the one saving (i.e., only when you open up the menu and save; not after level completion or other spots where the game automatically auto-saves, which happens quite a few places.)
The in-game cutscenes are also included in timing - fair enough. It's just a matter of finding the fastest way to skip them, as honorableJay pointed out. How about the so-called .bik movie cutscenes? They're also skippable as far as I recall, but do they count?

A bonus question: Since the time spent when saving/loading is not counted in PC games, is it necessary in your raw footage to include frames in which you're actually saving/loading? I.e., while recording, bringing up the menu, selecting save/load menu and clicking save/load and then stop recording. Or would it be sufficient to stop each segment with a quick Esc-press that brings up the game menu, to indicate that the segment is done and that you're saving and then beginning a new segment from this save?

[quote="honorableJay"]I've played Jedi Outcast on 3 different machines, all with vastly different makeups (crap-top, old Athlon XP, and my current Q6600) and the cutscene skips were always the same speed. I think what he's noticed about Outcast is a bit different. You can skip the cutscenes with a keypress at the right time, but if you spam that input key or hold it the game has a tendency to delay the skip until long after you've stopped pressing/holding the key. In this instance I believe the in-game cutscene would count against your time, but I'm not sure about the .bik movie cutscenes.[/quote]

Aha, it seems I've drawn a false conclusion then. Thanks for pointing out.

[quote="IsraeliRD"]Regarding save penalties, it basically applies to any game where you can save anywhere. Games like Final Fantasy and other RPGs where you can't save anywhere you want but only in specific spots/locations don't get this save penalty. Likewise a game that autosaves after a level or a certain spot (e.g. Gears of War) would not have any save penalty.

Additionally based on what honorableJay said it appears that therefore all in-game cutscenes would be included in the timing. However I would like some explanation re: the bik cutscenes and where they happen as that might be different, but this you can bring in a PM with me.[/quote]

OK, so in conclusion, save penalties only occur when you're the one saving (i.e., only when you open up the menu and save; not after level completion or other spots where the game automatically auto-saves, which happens quite a few places.)
The in-game cutscenes are also included in timing - fair enough. It's just a matter of finding the fastest way to skip them, as honorableJay pointed out. How about the so-called .bik movie cutscenes? They're also skippable as far as I recall, but do they count?

A bonus question: Since the time spent when saving/loading is not counted in PC games, is it necessary in your raw footage to include frames in which you're actually saving/loading? I.e., while recording, bringing up the menu, selecting save/load menu and clicking save/load and then stop recording. Or would it be sufficient to stop each segment with a quick Esc-press that brings up the game menu, to indicate that the segment is done and that you're saving and then beginning a new segment from this save?

Sir VG

2012-11-18 04:36:24 am

Fucking Weeaboo

Quote from voxcy1:

A bonus question: Since the time spent when saving/loading is not counted in PC games, is it necessary in your raw footage to include frames in which you're actually saving/loading? I.e., while recording, bringing up the menu, selecting save/load menu and clicking save/load and then stop recording. Or would it be sufficient to stop each segment with a quick Esc-press that brings up the game menu, to indicate that the segment is done and that you're saving and then beginning a new segment from this save?

Start of Segments: While it's not required to show the save file, it's definitely good practice to do so anyways, since this shows that you haven't started a segment before you started recording. It also makes the verifiers life much easier.

End of Segments: If it's save you're making, show that you've saved, don't just stop. If it's an auto-save/end of level save, that's less of an issue, as long as it's obvious to a viewer/verifier the continuity between segments. One thing I do recommend is that you show the save file if the game doesn't display it. Much like the start of segment section I mentioned above, it'll make the verifiers life much easier.

[quote="voxcy1"]A bonus question: Since the time spent when saving/loading is not counted in PC games, is it necessary in your raw footage to include frames in which you're actually saving/loading? I.e., while recording, bringing up the menu, selecting save/load menu and clicking save/load and then stop recording. Or would it be sufficient to stop each segment with a quick Esc-press that brings up the game menu, to indicate that the segment is done and that you're saving and then beginning a new segment from this save?[/quote]

Start of Segments: While it's not required to show the save file, it's definitely good practice to do so anyways, since this shows that you haven't started a segment before you started recording. It also makes the verifiers life much easier.

End of Segments: If it's save you're making, show that you've saved, don't just stop. If it's an auto-save/end of level save, that's less of an issue, as long as it's obvious to a viewer/verifier the continuity between segments. One thing I do recommend is that you show the save file if the game doesn't display it. Much like the start of segment section I mentioned above, it'll make the verifiers life much easier.