Probotector/Contra: Hard Corps no deaths speedrun

2006-02-25 04:59:52 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Heh, "Browny" isn't broken so much as he is just an accurate representation of just how much ass Combattler V kicks all over the place. Realism in videogames is a good thing in many cases right? Grin

8)

zfunk007

2006-02-25 05:58:24 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

I just love this game. And I wish it would have gotten more recognition. Seems like this game always gets shafted whenever the "best games ever" lists come out.

Anyway, we are gonna start practicing our run tonight and hopefully in a few weeks we will have a viewable one.

zfunk007

2006-02-26 08:18:14 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Well, my brother and I are hard at work making this run a reality. We are playing the game with Brownie and Ray. We can get all the way up past the jungle level basically running through the game and without dying. But from there we are trying to find the best and most entertaining route to take to finish the game.

Any ideas on which way would be the best? The route where you climb the missle at the end would be good, but the one where Colonel Bahamut makes his ultimate Bio Weapon is good also. Which one should we do?

zfunk007

2006-03-01 06:24:02 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Common! Someone has to have some ideas here! We are now thinking about the route where you chase dead eye Joe and then end up in a space station fighting Colonel Bahamut and the mother brain looking alien. It's probably the fastest paced route and would be a good one to start with.

Any advice would be appreciated! I can promise you we are going to have a very entertaining single segment 2 player run, if we can pull it off.

zfunk007

2006-03-01 06:28:28 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Oh yeah, and we were trying the run with Brownie and Fang, and concluded that Fang is just too much of a liability. He's too freaking tall!

Ray and Brownie are a much better combination. Ray's homing missiles are a MUST on the second part of the virtual zone and his "A" laser weapon is just about as strong as any of Fangs weapons.

We have gotten to the point where we can beat most of the bosses in between 5-10 seconds (the ones that don't make you wait that is). So we think it's working out good so far.

getter77

2006-03-01 01:48:26 pm

100% runs=great to watch

I say go with whichever root you personally will be able to do the best at/have the most fun with. Remember, ultimately, there's nothing stopping anybody from doing ALL the different routes somewhere in the future...or you when you find yourself bored one day. Grin

mikwuyma

2006-03-01 02:46:06 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Route has already been discussed. Each route is a separate category because there are some stage differences between routes.

What do you mean Fang is too much of a liability? IIRC, Ray is just as tall, crouching at least. With Fang, you should use weapon A when you're running around, and charge up weapon D for bosses. If weapon D doesn't work so well against the boss, use weapon B (the first boss is a good example of this). I just did a short little trial against the first boss, and Fang's flame fist can destroy the first form faster than any of Ray's weapons can.

If you're still sticking with Ray, then napalm and point-blank spread shot are the two most powerful options you have. The laser doesn't match up in terms of damage (I tested this on the first boss). You should never Ray's homing missiles because they do pitiful damage. Which form in the virtual zone are you having trouble with when you don't use homing missiles?

People aren't giving tips on this game for two reasons.

1. This game was never popular.

2. This is a very simple game to optimize. When running around make sure you're always going forward (or sliding whenever possible), shooting everything that moves. Against bosses, simply use your most powerful weapon. Yes, easier said than done, but that is the basic concept.

If you need help against a specific boss just ask and I'll explain how to beat them.

Route has already been discussed.  Each route is a separate category because there are some stage differences between routes.

What do you mean Fang is too much of a liability?  IIRC, Ray is just as tall, crouching at least.  With Fang, you should use weapon A when you're running around, and charge up weapon D for bosses.  If weapon D doesn't work so well against the boss, use weapon B (the first boss is a good example of this).  I just did a short little trial against the first boss, and Fang's flame fist can destroy the first form faster than any of Ray's weapons can.

If you're still sticking with Ray, then napalm and point-blank spread shot are the two most powerful options you have.  The laser doesn't match up in terms of damage (I tested this on the first boss).  You should never Ray's homing missiles because they do pitiful damage. Which form in the virtual zone are you having trouble with when you don't use homing missiles?

People aren't giving tips on this game for two reasons.

1.  This game was never popular.

2.  This is a very simple game to optimize.  When running around make sure you're always going forward (or sliding whenever possible), shooting everything that moves.  Against bosses, simply use your most powerful weapon.  Yes, easier said than done, but that is the basic concept.

If you need help against a specific boss just ask and I'll explain how to beat them.

Gigafrost

2006-03-01 08:01:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Route is non-issue; Big Magnum / space station route was used in the TAS because there was one less stage than in the other paths.

A more interesting question is where you're planning to use bombs. If I recall correctly, there are a total of three you can pick up if you go the TAS route. Where I used them in the TAS and why:

- Virtual Zone Helicopter Mode because the target is small AND in the air AND moving around.

- Omnibot final mode because the bouncing around makes it hard to spam damage.

- Big magnum final mode because the third bomb is received at the beginning of the level. Scientist first mode is trivial to fully damage before the end of the first attack, second mode is incredibly fast to beat, Big Magnum first mode has a weak gun that dies before receiving full damage. Big Magnum second mode is stationary so you can make the yoyo sit and deal damage insanely fast. That meant the third mode was the target, and since it's not stationary (it dances) you can't sink the yoyo into it like the second mode.

I don't know if those thoughts are of any use to y'all, though.

Route is non-issue; Big Magnum / space station route was used in the TAS because there was one less stage than in the other paths.

A more interesting question is where you're planning to use bombs. If I recall correctly, there are a total of three you can pick up if you go the TAS route. Where I used them in the TAS and why:

- Virtual Zone Helicopter Mode because the target is small AND in the air AND moving around.

- Omnibot final mode because the bouncing around makes it hard to spam damage.

- Big magnum final mode because the third bomb is received at the beginning of the level. Scientist first mode is trivial to fully damage before the end of the first attack, second mode is incredibly fast to beat, Big Magnum first mode has a weak gun that dies before receiving full damage. Big Magnum second mode is stationary so you can make the yoyo sit and deal damage insanely fast. That meant the third mode was the target, and since it's not stationary (it dances) you can't sink the yoyo into it like the second mode.

I don't know if those thoughts are of any use to y'all, though.

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-02 04:44:05 am

2006-03-02 04:40:12 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Well the reason we are using Ray and Brownie is because my brother always used Ray and I always used Brownie whenever we played over the years. So those are the characters we were best at. I really think Ray is underestimated and Fang is overestimated. I never liked Fang for some reason.

And you say Ray's napalm weapon is more powerful than the laser? Maybe at a distance but not at close range. And we have found ways to get close to almost every boss. The laser shoots much faster than the napalm and if you are really close it dishes out tons of damage, probably just as much as any of Fangs weapons. We've tested it and it seems accurate.

We were able to kill the first boss faster with Ray and Brownie then we were with Brownie and Fang, by at least a couple seconds. Believe me, we practiced it the other day at least 100 times. But I guess I could still be wrong who knows.

Also, you are basing your ideas on 1 player mode. You have to remember that in 2 player mode there is a slight advantage because we have the ability to kill the bosses faster if we do it right. And Ray and Brownie are the 2 guys that seem to compliment each other best in our opinion.

You'd be surprised about how useful the homing missiles can be. In 2 player mode they are essential. They keep us from dying in many circumstances when there are many enemies on the screen and in the virtual zone and many other situations they are the only "sure way" to make sure we are hitting the boss continually. We think it works well. But who knows.

At any rate, we want to do runs for every route but I think we are going to start with the Bio-Weapon/Mother Brain route cause it is fast and fun. The missile route with the boats and insane bosses is a little to hard for now. But we may tackle that one once we get this first one completed. Time will tell I guess.

Well the reason we are using Ray and Brownie is because my brother always used Ray and I always used Brownie whenever we played over the years. So those are the characters we were best at. I really think Ray is underestimated and Fang is overestimated. I never liked Fang for some reason.

And you say Ray's napalm weapon is more powerful than the laser? Maybe at a distance but not at close range. And we have found ways to get close to almost every boss. The laser shoots much faster than the napalm and if you are really close it dishes out tons of damage, probably just as much as any of Fangs weapons. We've tested it and it seems accurate.

We were able to kill the first boss faster with Ray and Brownie then we were with Brownie and Fang, by at least a couple seconds. Believe me, we practiced it the other day at least 100 times. But I guess I could still be wrong who knows.

Also, you are basing your ideas on 1 player mode. You have to remember that in 2 player mode there is a slight advantage because we have the ability to kill the bosses faster if we do it right. And Ray and Brownie are the 2 guys that seem to compliment each other best in our opinion.

You'd be surprised about how useful the homing missiles can be. In 2 player mode they are essential. They keep us from dying in many circumstances when there are many enemies on the screen and in the virtual zone and many other situations they are the only "sure way" to make sure we are hitting the boss continually. We think it works well. But who knows.

At any rate, we want to do runs for every route but I think we are going to start with the Bio-Weapon/Mother Brain route cause it is fast and fun. The missile route with the boats and insane bosses is a little to hard for now. But we may tackle that one once we get this first one completed. Time will tell I guess.

mikwuyma

2006-03-02 09:19:46 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

You're right, I'm basing my ideas off of a one-player game. I know bosses have more life in a two-player game, but I didn't think that would make any difference in Fang's effectiveness. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. It doesn't even matter anyways because it will be a separate category.

I just realized that when you're using Ray the missile can be useful when you're running around, and against the helicopter boss of the virtual zone (because of the small, moving weakpoint). Spread might be better for running around in some cases though (like the beginning of the fourth stage)

I'll have to try out what you said about the laser compared to the napalm against more bosses.

Anyways, it sounds like you're motivated to make a good run without deaths. So I wish you luck when you start recording.

Gigafrost: Those first two uses of bombs are the best uses of bombs for any route. The only exception being the secret boss battles, where you want to use one against the cart pusher, and the other against the bubble boss (who will die in one bomb if you are 2-3 character widths from the left wall).

You're right, I'm basing my ideas off of a one-player game.  I know bosses have more life in a two-player game, but I didn't think that would make any difference in Fang's effectiveness.  Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.  It doesn't even matter anyways because it will be a separate category.

I just realized that when you're using Ray the missile can be useful when you're running around, and against the helicopter boss of the virtual zone (because of the small, moving weakpoint).  Spread might be better for running around in some cases though (like the beginning of the fourth stage)

I'll have to try out what you said about the laser compared to the napalm against more bosses.

Anyways, it sounds like you're motivated to make a good run without deaths.  So I wish you luck when you start recording.

Gigafrost:  Those first two uses of bombs are the best uses of bombs for any route.  The only exception being the secret boss battles, where you want to use one against the cart pusher, and the other against the bubble boss (who will die in one bomb if you are 2-3 character widths from the left wall).

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-11 05:00:32 pm

2006-03-11 04:55:09 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Alright, major progress to report. Me and my bro just about have our entire run ready to put on tape. We have been practicing a lot and have most of the game down to a science. Hopefully by next week or the week after we will have our run and we can submit it.

We have figured out quite a few interesting tricks, especially on the last boss of this route (the Bio-Weapon Mother Brain Alien Thing). Brownie proves invaluable at this final boss because of his yo-yo weapon (although my fingers get quite a work out). This weapon isn't always the most practical to use on bosses but it works great for this one and several others.

There are a couple of bosses we were having a lot of trouble with because of the crazy random factor in this game. One of them was the "Metal Circle with Arms" mid way through the jungle level. He seems to have close to 10 different variations he goes through when your fighting him and it is never in any particular order. We just had to keep fighting him over and over again until we were ready for any combination he might throw at us.

A similar boss is the 2nd to last boss of this route. Where the professor jumps into his robot and starts jumping around. This guy has 3 "sequences" he goes through and they are always randomized when you first fight him. Two of them are pretty easy but one of them (the one he seems to use the most frequently where these little poles shoot around the room) is very unpredicatable and hard not to die. We also decided to save our 3 bombs for the last sequence of this boss when his legs start growing as he walks around the room. We just couldn't figure out a fast enough way to kill him without the bombs. So we are going to use them here.

There are some parts of this game where we go for pure speed. And we are sliding whenever possible. Although at a few points we chose to play it safe rather than do something completely risky. The 2 player factor has twice the margin of error anyway, but we can kill the bosses a hell of a lot faster than anyone with 1 player could do. I can guarantee you that.

This is going to be a fun run. I can't wait to get to the other parts of the game. Some of the other routes will be even more insane to watch. I'll update again when we have our finished tape (or when we throw the controllers down in frustration!).

Alright, major progress to report. Me and my bro just about have our entire run ready to put on tape. We have been practicing a lot and have most of the game down to a science. Hopefully by next week or the week after we will have our run and we can submit it.

We have figured out quite a few interesting tricks, especially on the last boss of this route (the Bio-Weapon Mother Brain Alien Thing). Brownie proves invaluable at this final boss because of his yo-yo weapon (although my fingers get quite a work out). This weapon isn't always the most practical to use on bosses but it works great for this one and several others.

There are a couple of bosses we were having a lot of trouble with because of the crazy random factor in this game. One of them was the "Metal Circle with Arms" mid way through the jungle level. He seems to have close to 10 different variations he goes through when your fighting him and it is never in any particular order. We just had to keep fighting him over and over again until we were ready for any combination he might throw at us.

A similar boss is the 2nd to last boss of this route. Where the professor jumps into his robot and starts jumping around. This guy has 3 "sequences" he goes through and they are always randomized when you first fight him. Two of them are pretty easy but one of them (the one he seems to use the most frequently where these little poles shoot around the room) is very unpredicatable and hard not to die. We also decided to save our 3 bombs for the last sequence of this boss when his legs start growing as he walks around the room. We just couldn't figure out a fast enough way to kill him without the bombs. So we are going to use them here.

There are some parts of this game where we go for pure speed. And we are sliding whenever possible. Although at a few points we chose to play it safe rather than do something completely risky. The 2 player factor has twice the margin of error anyway, but we can kill the bosses a hell of a lot faster than anyone with 1 player could do. I can guarantee you that.

This is going to be a fun run. I can't wait to get to the other parts of the game. Some of the other routes will be even more insane to watch. I'll update again when we have our finished tape (or when we throw the controllers down in frustration!).

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-11 06:20:10 pm

2006-03-11 06:17:33 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Alright well we just got permission from Radix to do the run. So hopefully by next week or the week after it will be done and we'll send it out.

Now I have to either buy a VCR.... or a DVD recorder... Hmmmm.... Think I might go with the DVD recorder... And since I am going to be doing more runs, why not right?

getter77

2006-03-11 07:42:11 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Happy hunting. DVD recorder should definitely come in handier in the long run and in general.

zfunk007

2006-03-12 12:01:37 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

By the way, are any of you familiar enough with this game to verify this run for Radix when it's done? Just wondering...

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2006-03-12 12:43:00 am

2006-03-12 12:41:36 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I have only argued with you every other post. You think I would argue if I didn't know anything about the game?

If you don't know what I am hinting at. Yes, I can verify.

Gigafrost

2006-03-12 01:32:47 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Although I've only played it on a emulator, I would imagine that I could verify, too, although I haven't ever asked. There's already Silent Hill 2 and Tomb Raider in the "to be verified list" and I haven't decided to verify those...

Errr, sorry. Babbling again.

zfunk007

2006-03-12 02:59:10 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Hehe, well then mikwuyma I guess you'll be verifying our run. Because I spent about half an hour talking with Radix over IM and he has never played the game before. After explaining how the different routes and endings worked I had to also explain why the "secret" ending was not the best ending for the speed run.

Basically the viewers would be missing out on a lot of other cool scenes. Anyway, I convinced him in the end, so it's all good.

How is your run going anyway mikwuyma? You were the one attempting a single player run on this game right?

mikwuyma

2006-03-12 03:22:44 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Quote:

P.S. I might try to do this game when I have the chance.

That's what I said, I never said anything about attempting a run. However, I could probably whip something up quick, but I have other stuff to work on.

zfunk007

2006-03-12 03:51:59 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Yeah I guess Shaun Friend was the one who started the thread. Should have noticed Grin

MMAN

Edit history:

MMAN: 2006-03-12 11:10:35 am

2006-03-12 11:07:51 am

Quote:

and Tomb Raider in the "to be verified list"

*Cough* Do it *Cough* Tongue

Quote:

Yeah I guess Shaun Friend was the one who started the thread. Should have noticed Grin

What's that got to do with what was just said? Though, of course, I can verify as well.

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-13 04:23:20 am

2006-03-13 04:20:43 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Well I guess since mikwuyma knows so much about the game and has been posting a lot I had it in my head that he started the thread and wanted to do the speed run. But when I went back and checked it was Shaun Friend. That's all.

By the way, bought a DVD recorder today. One step closer to getting it done. Just waiting for my brother to get some time off from school...

Enhasa

2006-03-13 07:17:26 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

That's what I said, I never said anything about attempting a run. However, I could probably whip something up quick, but I have other stuff to work on.

Some of those are even in similar series! Wink

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-13 05:26:50 pm

2006-03-13 05:25:30 pm

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Welp more good news. My brother has tonight and tommorow off so he will be coming by and we are going to try and tackle this thing. We may not be able to get the exact run we want by tommorow (It is so freaking hard to get through this game without dying and that is what we are aiming for), but we WILL have something.

Once we have something decent recorded on DVD I may rip it and post our run of the first level so people can check it out and let us know what you think. Hopefully I can do that by tommorow. We'll see...

Hey mikwuyma, have you ever tried running through the very first part of the first level without turning around to fire at the enemies? My brother and I figured out a way (although we usually never get it on the first try, mainly because the bullets always come at random intervals every time) to just keep running and jump over the bullets as we go. We tried sliding through the first part but it just seems impossible, plus we need the first 2 weapons.

Just thought I'd mention it because in all honesty, (and luckily) one of the hardest parts for us to run through without stopping was the very first part of the first level. Just thought I'd mention it and see if anyone had any other ideas about it.

Welp more good news. My brother has tonight and tommorow off so he will be coming by and we are going to try and tackle this thing. We may not be able to get the exact run we want by tommorow (It is so freaking hard to get through this game without dying and that is what we are aiming for), but we WILL have something.

Once we have something decent recorded on DVD I may rip it and post our run of the first level so people can check it out and let us know what you think. Hopefully I can do that by tommorow. We'll see...

Hey mikwuyma, have you ever tried running through the very first part of the first level without turning around to fire at the enemies? My brother and I figured out a way (although we usually never get it on the first try, mainly because the bullets always come at random intervals every time) to just keep running and jump over the bullets as we go. We tried sliding through the first part but it just seems impossible, plus we need the first 2 weapons.

Just thought I'd mention it because in all honesty, (and luckily) one of the hardest parts for us to run through without stopping was the very first part of the first level. Just thought I'd mention it and see if anyone had any other ideas about it.

mikwuyma

2006-03-13 11:29:41 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

To be honest I could never manage to get through the first stage without stopping to pick up weapons. However, you can slide at least 4 times without any problems the moment you gain control. After that I usually just walk forward and shoot.

I'm guessing on the first weapon pickup Browny is collecting weapon A and Ray is collecting weapon D. Though the other way around could also be ok.

zfunk007

Edit history:

zfunk007: 2006-03-14 07:07:00 am

2006-03-14 07:01:31 am

To Speedrun... or not to Speedrun...

Well my brother and I tried it again tonight (with an audience) and got through Route "A" in under 20 minutes (didn't time it exactly but it was somewhere between 15-20, I think). We only died a total of 4 times between the 2 of us and it was at really stupid parts (such as the very last moment of the game where the mother brain boss shoots those laser things out that circulate all over the room, we both slid a moment too soon and both died).

There were also a few other parts of the game where we could have done better but all in all, we are ready and are going to start recording tommorow after a few practice runs.

Hey mikwuyma, we don't ever need to stop to get the weapons at the first part, we just keep running and get them as we go. Ray will slide 3 times when we first start and Brownie will stay a few paces behind and cover him. Brownie shoots the weapons out of the sky for Ray and Ray grabs them, all without stopping once. It's really hard but we got it just about down so that we can do it almost every time. We let Ray get both of the first ones and Brownie get both of the second ones (since Rays best weapons both come at the first part and Brownies come at the second after you beat the big Cyclops guy).

There is still one huge problem spot that we always have trouble with that we could use some advice on. The jungle stage boss, last part, last phase, is very difficult with 2 players. The reason for this is if you both start shooting him and get too close, he starts "swinging" back and fourth on both sides of the room and kills you instantly. We found a way to beat him fast but it only works about half the time (and since I'm Brownie I have to be constantly jumping while I shoot him because he's so short, so it's unreliable).

So if anyone knows anything about a good way to beat that boss, let us know. Right now, as soon as he comes in after he's done shooting his missles at you, we get over to his right side. We both get right to the side of him and start shooting (Brownie with weapon "B" and Ray with weapon "A") what makes it a pain like I said is that Brownie has to jump to hit him because he's so short. We could play it safe and not worry about it, but we save about 10-15 seconds if we do it this way. About half the time the boss will swing back our way and kill both of us.

If we played it safe and both stood back and I hit him with a different weapon we wouldn't have to worry, but we'd lose about 15 seconds. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated Grin

Well my brother and I tried it again tonight (with an audience) and got through Route "A" in under 20 minutes (didn't time it exactly but it was somewhere between 15-20, I think). We only died a total of 4 times between the 2 of us and it was at really stupid parts (such as the very last moment of the game where the mother brain boss shoots those laser things out that circulate all over the room, we both slid a moment too soon and both died).

There were also a few other parts of the game where we could have done better but all in all, we are ready and are going to start recording tommorow after a few practice runs.

Hey mikwuyma, we don't ever need to stop to get the weapons at the first part, we just keep running and get them as we go. Ray will slide 3 times when we first start and Brownie will stay a few paces behind and cover him. Brownie shoots the weapons out of the sky for Ray and Ray grabs them, all without stopping once. It's really hard but we got it just about down so that we can do it almost every time. We let Ray get both of the first ones and Brownie get both of the second ones (since Rays best weapons both come at the first part and Brownies come at the second after you beat the big Cyclops guy).

There is still one huge problem spot that we always have trouble with that we could use some advice on. The jungle stage boss, last part, last phase, is very difficult with 2 players. The reason for this is if you both start shooting him and get too close, he starts "swinging" back and fourth on both sides of the room and kills you instantly. We found a way to beat him fast but it only works about half the time (and since I'm Brownie I have to be constantly jumping while I shoot him because he's so short, so it's unreliable).

So if anyone knows anything about a good way to beat that boss, let us know. Right now, as soon as he comes in after he's done shooting his missles at you, we get over to his right side. We both get right to the side of him and start shooting (Brownie with weapon "B" and Ray with weapon "A") what makes it a pain like I said is that Brownie has to jump to hit him because he's so short. We could play it safe and not worry about it, but we save about 10-15 seconds if we do it this way. About half the time the boss will swing back our way and kill both of us.

If we played it safe and both stood back and I hit him with a different weapon we wouldn't have to worry, but we'd lose about 15 seconds. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated  ;D