Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (Gamecube any% and 100%)

BhaaL

2012-01-20 01:38:10 pm

Fabulous

I rarely download runs but once this is finished, it'll be a must-have Wink

Reaver

2012-01-20 05:20:36 pm

Looks pretty good. Getting a perfect fight against 25 sand monsters would be asking a lot. It's not impossible, but this game can be pretty random at times with the fighting. Like flying directly towards a target then you appear to move around them in mid-air rather than hitting them. I didn't see any real big mistakes anywhere else in the segment. Few minor little things but they barely cost you any time. Overall I think it was a very good segment. You should keep this one unless you aren't happy with it of course Smiley

UCpro

2012-01-20 09:29:27 pm

Thanks Bhaal, glad you're enjoying the run Smiley

yeah Reaver, i'm gonna keep this attempt. I've also figured out how i'm going to do the next segment. I'm going to do this route through the hall of learning.....

Doing the rewind trick here means i'll need to retrieve 4 sand tanks from the first 4 enemies in the observatory (i'll use haste after the first 4 enemies). This means i'll be able to use 2 dagger stabs on enemies at the beginning of the hall of learning to save a little bit of time.

I can't imagine this next segment being too hard, but any segment involving enemies can potentially be frustrating.

mikwuyma

2012-01-20 09:56:17 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Segment 10: It looks good for the most part. I do notice a couple of small mistakes outside of those two completely bullshit missed torpedoes, but I don't think they add up to more than a second total. Like Reaver said, you're not going to get perfect luck in a fight that long, and your luck was pretty good there. However, I had two questions.

1. Why do you switch to landscape mode for setting up the rewind trick?

2. I thought going up and right around the well was faster than going down and left around the well like you did. Is there something I'm missing?

The Hall of Learning route looks good, it just doesn't look SS-friendly. Tongue

I will use that route with the torpedo drop instead of rewind trick for SS attempts. I just didn't use that route for the marathon because I think it increases the chance of Farah running into the spikes somewhat, though that could just be superstition.

UCpro

2012-01-20 10:18:18 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

1. Why do you switch to landscape mode for setting up the rewind trick?

2. I thought going up and right around the well was faster than going down and left around the well like you did. Is there something I'm missing?

1 - i seem to get the rewind trick more consistently going into landscape view. Have you tried doing this?

2 - i'm pretty sure going down and left is faster....seems like it to me anyways. There's probably no time difference between the two directions....i'm more concerned about the enemies that spawn right in front of my face :/

mikwuyma

2012-01-20 10:37:19 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

1. Nope, I'll try it because my consistency really varies from moment to moment. Sometimes I can get it at least half of the time, other times I'm lucky if I can get it 10% of the time.

2. Strange, I always thought up was faster, but I never really tested. It just felt more direct to me.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2012-01-21 12:48:26 am

2012-01-21 12:46:22 am

ok, i just had an interesting idea. Is it possible to use haste to teleport to otherwise unreachable areas? I messed around with this in the hall of learning.....i got an enemy to spawn in the room with the third sword, then used haste to try to teleport the prince inside that room. I got CLOSE, but the door prevents the prince from making it all the way in. Probably would need an expert glitcher to test this out and see if you could clip into areas like these. Although right now it seems it is not possible to go though doors/walls with this idea, it may be possible to reach new ledges or platforms if you got enemies to spawn on them. You can use different camera angles to manipulate where enemies can spawn. I'll have to play around with this idea more, and try to figure out where it could potentially even be useful. I can think of a couple places......

Reaver

2012-01-21 06:48:05 am

I've never thought of using haste like that, but from my experience I've never been able to attack an enemy if they were blocked by an object or wall. I have managed to haste myself off a platform and ended up dying in the observatory. Still have no idea how that happened. Might be worth a try though. I mean getting through the wall, not falling off a platform Smiley

mikwuyma

2012-01-22 02:50:44 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Yeah, AFAIK, if there's an object blocking the way, then you can't haste over to that enemy, that's why it's possible to get "trapped" in the top part of the elevator when you haste because the little dividers on the side or blocking your way.

UCpro

2012-01-23 09:11:43 pm

Yeah, things blocking your way may prevent the prince from teleporting, BUT you could still potentially get to ledges or platforms you normally couldn't get to. I'm just trying to figure out where this could be useful at.

I do want to try to use haste to end up at a 'further' point of the game....example is in the observatory. When using haste here it would be best to to kill the last enemy as close to the save portal as possible (instead of killing the last enemy near the entrance of the room). That would save at least 5 seconds. Obviously this will depend on how the enemies spawn while using haste, and i have know idea if this can be controlled. It's something i'm definitely going to look into.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2012-01-24 07:25:34 am

UCpro: 2012-01-24 07:22:50 am

2012-01-24 07:21:30 am

sorry for the double post, but this is a pretty big find. I just realized you can do a timing glitch at many of the checkpoints in the game.

What you do is hit a checkpoint and then rewind, killing yourself at the end of the rewind. Basically what you are doing is erasing 10 seconds from the in-game clock (10 seconds for a full rewind). I'm curious how many checkpoints there are in the game where you can abuse this timing glitch. Many checkpoints in the game have cutscenes that play, so you can't use this in those spots. Also, some checkpoints may have places where you can't kill yourself quickly after rewinding....so those wouldn't work as well. I'll have to go through and see how many checkpoints could use this.....there's probably around 15 i'm sure, which would total 2:30 saved over the whole run if you could rewind 10 seconds at every spot. That would push my target time at the 98% save down to 1:24!!!! Very interesting find!!

GravityWell

2012-01-24 10:11:55 am

I sincerely hope you don't restart your entire run over this :S

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2012-01-24 12:58:00 pm

2012-01-24 12:52:29 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Well this doesn't look to save any time real-time, so I won't be using it. And I agree with GravityWell, don't restart your run over this. D:

Haste in Observatory: I think this could save time, but you'd have to make sure it's the last enemy you kill and might cause a lot more restarts than you want. If you haste closer to the save point with another enemy left, you might be left hanging while the last enemy is sitting on the opposite end of the observatory.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2012-01-25 12:15:48 am

2012-01-24 06:07:10 pm

no, i'm definitely not going to restart my run. i'll finish it, submit it, and then start planning for a new one. I'm wondering though if i should start incorporating this checkpoint timing glitch in my segments for the rest of this run, or just leave it out completely and put it in my next run from the very beginning? I'm leaning towards starting to put it in now, because i still want to get the lowest in-game time possible that i can for this run.

EDIT: Nevermind about the checkpoint timing glitch...it doesn't work like i thought it did. Tested it some more and it doesn't erase time at all, guess i sure thoroughly test something new like this before say i found a new trick Smiley

I did practice the next segment a little tonight, might be able to start recording attempts this weekend.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2012-01-28 04:54:23 pm

2012-01-28 04:49:31 pm

I tested a few things last night and i think i have the rest of my run planned out where i'm going to end/start each segment. The next segment will obviously end in the observatory. The next two segments after that are a little interesting...i'd like to get opinions on them. First, i'll start in the observatory, do the skip, go through the hallways(i found a way to skip one of the cutscenes with Farah in one of the hallways...it's difficult to get), and then get to the courtyard where i will then kill the 5 enemies and save right after defeating them. Then the next segment will be the palm tree shortcut, but i'm going to do it off of the tree to the left (which is by far the more difficult of the two.....it's 10 seconds faster than the one on the right). After that i will get the sand cloud in the room with the scarabs, and then i will SAVE again at the same spot i started the segment from. Then this next segment i will go all the way to the hourglass save point (i'll use haste on the enemies in the prison with the sand cloud i got in the previous segment).

So, that's what i'm thinking. The thing that bugs me is that i won't have an opportunity to use haste on the 5 enemies in the courtyard, so that fight will be a little slow. BUT, the new cutscene skip i found (~7 seconds) and the optimal palm tree shortcut (10 seconds) will be additions to the run that i wouldn't have put in unless i broke up the segments like this. So a 30 second fight/save in the courtyard won't necessarily be as bad as it looks. And saving for a second time in the courtyard means i won't have to view the 'vision' cutscene upon entering the save portal the second time.

I like this route because i want to have a save before the prision/rewind trick/elevator sections, but also after the observatory skip/palm tree shortcut. My practice run saved on the bridge right before the prison, but that fight just takes way too long, and i also wouldn't be able to use haste in the prison if i used that save.

thoughts??

I tested a few things last night and i think i have the rest of my run planned out where i'm going to end/start each segment.  The next segment will obviously end in the observatory.  The next two segments after that are a little interesting...i'd like to get opinions on them.  First, i'll start in the observatory, do the skip, go through the hallways(i found a way to skip one of the cutscenes with Farah in one of the hallways...it's difficult to get), and then get to the courtyard where i will then kill the 5 enemies and save right after defeating them.  Then the next segment will be the palm tree shortcut, but i'm going to do it off of the tree to the left (which is by far the more difficult of the two.....it's 10 seconds faster than the one on the right).  After that i will get the sand cloud in the room with the scarabs, and then i will SAVE again at the same spot i started the segment from.  Then this next segment i will go all the way to the hourglass save point (i'll use haste on the enemies in the prison with the sand cloud i got in the previous segment).

So, that's what i'm thinking.  The thing that bugs me is that i won't have an opportunity to use haste on the 5 enemies in the courtyard, so that fight will be a little slow.  BUT, the new cutscene skip i found (~7 seconds) and the optimal palm tree shortcut (10 seconds) will be additions to the run that i wouldn't have put in unless i broke up the segments like this.  So a 30 second fight/save in the courtyard won't necessarily be as bad as it looks.  And saving for a second time in the courtyard means i won't have to view the 'vision' cutscene upon entering the save portal the second time.

I like this route because i want to have a save before the prision/rewind trick/elevator sections, but also after the observatory skip/palm tree shortcut.  My practice run saved on the bridge right before the prison, but that fight just takes way too long, and i also wouldn't be able to use haste in the prison if i used that save.

thoughts??

Reaver

2012-01-29 06:48:49 am

It sounds like a good idea to kill the 5 sand monsters in the courtyard and save there. It's what I would do, especially if you are going to go off the left palm tree. Saving again doesn't sound like a bad idea given the length of the next segment. Does it cost much time to run outside and save again? Is it possible to jump back to the palm tree, jump off it to the wall and then land safely in the courtyard after you trigger the switch? Just a thought as it would save you time getting to the save point again. Probably wouldn't work though, but if it did you could then pick up a sand cloud in the next section before the prison.

UCpro

2012-01-29 10:17:51 am

it costs about 6 seconds to save there a second time (3 seconds to run outside from the hallway, and then 3 more in the next segment to run back inside to the hallway).

I tried looking for a way to jump back down to the bottom off of the palm trees before but couldn't get anything to work. One thing i haven't tried is using rewinds to fall down to the bottom safely by dropping off the ledge (the method you used to try to get into the prison early). If that worked though, which sand cloud are you referring to picking up in the next segment before the prison? They are all kinda out of the way. The only one that makes sense to me is the one right below you right when you get outside from the hallways (where the cutscene plays). Is that what you were thinking?

Reaver

2012-01-29 11:35:16 am

Yes I think thats the one. Where you get out the hallways and there are lots of sand monsters just before the door Farah crawls under. I thought there was a sand cloud in the break in the wall but it was actually on the lower section. I guess it would cost you about as much time as you would save trying to get that one?

UCpro

2012-01-29 11:48:35 am

wow, i just tested using rewinds to get back down to the bottom of the courtyard after turning the switch, and i got it twice in about 10 tries. So i'll definitely use that to get me back to the save portal, should save a good chunk of time!! Maybe 15 seconds?? Getting the sand cloud in the next section will cost some time (6-8 seconds?) but it will still be worth it to use haste in the prison. Nice. I guess i have that all figured out Smiley

mikwuyma

2012-01-29 12:06:29 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Question, does in-game time not pass the moment you hit a save point? Because I know real-time, getting into a save point costs 15 seconds minimum. Aside from that, the route sounds good, since you'll probably be saving a bit of time just chopping up the segments for better luck, and less retries until the button rewind. I think that rewind and the elevator are going to be the two biggest sources of retries, if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, how do you get the left palm tree? I've never successfully climbed up the left side.

Reaver

2012-01-29 12:24:58 pm

Had this on my channel showing that its possible to get up there using the left palm tree. Requires a fair amount of luck to get stuck bouncing back and forth in the right spot. I do pause briefly and attempt a rough line up in the vid below. This might help you out for positioning to get it to work. I also tend to try holding a direction if I feel I'm drifting off in a particular direction. I'm not sure if this works but there are occassions when holding left or right seems to correct the alignment a bit when wall jumping. Perhaps if anyone knows or could test if holding a direction whilst jumping between the walls alters the direction? That way I'd atleast know if it works or it was luck Smiley

Sorry for the sketchy sound. had a lot of sound problems on my PC when I recorded this.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2012-01-29 02:13:44 pm

UCpro: 2012-01-29 01:58:27 pm

2012-01-29 01:58:05 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

Question, does in-game time not pass the moment you hit a save point? Because I know real-time, getting into a save point costs 15 seconds minimum. Aside from that, the route sounds good, since you'll probably be saving a bit of time just chopping up the segments for better luck, and less retries until the button rewind. I think that rewind and the elevator are going to be the two biggest sources of retries, if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, how do you get the left palm tree? I've never successfully climbed up the left side.

Take a look at my segment 4 again (see below). At the end of the fight i made sure to position the prince over the save portal when i killed the last enemy. This prevented the cutscene that plays showing the newly spawned portal (saving 5 seconds or so). In-game timing stops in this video when the screen flashes white at 5:55. So, i killed the last enemy at 5:48, which means it costs 7 seconds to save at the end of a fight. Unfortunately for my run, the cutscene i skipped at the end of my segment 4, played after Farah killed the last bird in segment 5. I had no idea that was going to happen, so it didn't save any time in that situation. But i WILL be doing that to end segment 11.

And the thing about using the same save portal a second time is that the moment you enter the save portal you go right to the save screen...so it doesn't cost the 7 seconds it does when you enter a new portal for the first time. That is why i will use that save to end my segment 12, it's essentially a free save. And it won't really cost any time at all to get to since i'll be using a rewind trick to get down to the bottom of the courtyard after turning the switch (i'm going to land on the ground a couple steps from the portal).

Yes, i want all these saves to have better luck. No way i would do the left palm tree shortcut (or the rewind trick right after) if i wasn't saving twice. And you're exactly right about the rewind trick to the button and the elevator fight....those will cause lots of resets i'm sure :/

EDIT: WOW, i just tested to see how much time that new rewind trick to get back down to the bottom of the courtyard saves, and it's like 25 seconds! Now that time also includes getting the sand cloud in the room with the scarabs. Getting the new sand cloud will take 6-8 seconds, so i have to subtract that from the 25 saved with the new rewind trick. But a total of 17-19 seconds saved with that new switch is awesome. Plus doing the new cutscene skip i found saves 9 seconds (i just timed it) and the new route of using the left palm tree (10 seconds) means A LOT of timed saved....36-38 seconds saved! that TOTALLY makes up for the 30 seconds or so it will take to do the courtyard fight AND enter the save portal (it may not even be that long). So happy to have this section figured out Smiley

Actually, that means i have the whole rest of the game planned out route-wise, so all i need to do now is record and finish this thing Smiley

[quote="mikwuyma"]Question, does in-game time not pass the moment you hit a save point? Because I know real-time, getting into a save point costs 15 seconds minimum. Aside from that, the route sounds good, since you'll probably be saving a bit of time just chopping up the segments for better luck, and less retries until the button rewind. I think that rewind and the elevator are going to be the two biggest sources of retries, if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, how do you get the left palm tree? I've never successfully climbed up the left side.[/quote]

Take a look at my segment 4 again (see below).  At the end of the fight i made sure to position the prince over the save portal when i killed the last enemy.  This prevented the cutscene that plays showing the newly spawned portal (saving 5 seconds or so).  In-game timing stops in this video when the screen flashes white at 5:55.  So, i killed the last enemy at 5:48, which means it costs 7 seconds to save at the end of a fight.  Unfortunately for my run, the cutscene i skipped at the end of my segment 4, played after Farah killed the last bird in segment 5.  I had no idea that was going to happen, so it didn't save any time in that situation.  But i WILL be doing that to end segment 11.

And the thing about using the same save portal a second time is that the moment you enter the save portal you go right to the save screen...so it doesn't cost the 7 seconds it does when you enter a new portal for the first time.  That is why i will use that save to end my segment 12, it's essentially a free save.  And it won't really cost any time at all to get to since i'll be using a rewind trick to get down to the bottom of the courtyard after turning the switch (i'm going to land on the ground a couple steps from the portal).

Yes, i want all these saves to have better luck.  No way i would do the left palm tree shortcut (or the rewind trick right after) if i wasn't saving twice.  And you're exactly right about the rewind trick to the button and the elevator fight....those will cause lots of resets i'm sure :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVy-hkMNX8

EDIT: WOW, i just tested to see how much time that new rewind trick to get back down to the bottom of the courtyard saves, and it's like 25 seconds!  Now that time also includes getting the sand cloud in the room with the scarabs.  Getting the new sand cloud will take 6-8 seconds, so i have to subtract that from the 25 saved with the new rewind trick.  But a total of 17-19 seconds saved with that new switch is awesome.  Plus doing the new cutscene skip i found saves 9 seconds (i just timed it) and the new route of using the left palm tree (10 seconds) means A LOT of timed saved....36-38 seconds saved!  that TOTALLY makes up for the 30 seconds or so it will take to do the courtyard fight AND enter the save portal (it may not even be that long).  So happy to have this section figured out :)  Actually, that means i have the whole rest of the game planned out route-wise, so all i need to do now is record and finish this thing :)

Uilnslcoap

2012-01-29 04:50:00 pm

F*ckin' sanity effects...

Wow, route-planning all sorted is incredible news, though the way you work I expect you to find a couple more time-savers anyway. Smiley

Really enjoying it, sir.

UCpro

2012-01-29 05:32:36 pm

Quote from Uilnslcoap:

Wow, route-planning all sorted is incredible news, though the way you work I expect you to find a couple more time-savers anyway. Smiley

Really enjoying it, sir.

thank you sir. i expect to find a couple more time savers as well Smiley

mikwuyma

2012-01-29 05:54:18 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

/me shakes fist over new time-savers.

In all honesty, PoPSoT speedrunning would be nowhere near the level its at without your input, UCpro.

Also, if you're wondering about SS attempts on my end, I still plan on making SS attempts, but I doubt I'll have the time to start until the middle of February. I still have a lot of prizes to ship and sort through.