Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (Gamecube any% and 100%)

mikwuyma

2011-04-29 11:19:44 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I'd say just move on, the segment was already very optimized.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-04-30 02:41:26 pm

UCpro: 2011-04-30 02:38:27 pm

2011-04-30 02:37:56 pm

just found a HUGE timesaver for segment 5!! I was testing the best angle to roll into the bird cage after Farah opens the door, and discovered that if you roll far enough to the right, you can skip the trigger for the bird cage cutscene!! that's just about 20 seconds saved right there, and the nice thing is that it sets me up better to do the vertical wall run jump to the pole at the beginning of climbing the cage. Check out the video to see how it works....it's pretty easy, i can basically get it every time now. Takes a little practice to get the right angle down, but definitely a huge chuck of time saving right there, and will be easy to use for a SS run (it would suck big time to screw it up in a SS run).

Also note at 0:33 in the video....yellow glitter glow, not sure what that's from, but definitely has to do with skipping the cutscene. The second part of the video shows me setting off the trigger after letting down the ladder. So now with this discovery, i'm shooting to be at 31:38 by the next save

just found a HUGE timesaver for segment 5!!  I was testing the best angle to roll into the bird cage after Farah opens the door, and discovered that if you roll far enough to the right, you can skip the trigger for the bird cage cutscene!!  that's just about 20 seconds saved right there, and the nice thing is that it sets me up better to do the vertical wall run jump to the pole at the beginning of climbing the cage.  Check out the video to see how it works....it's pretty easy, i can basically get it every time now.  Takes a little practice to get the right angle down, but definitely a huge chuck of time saving right there, and will be easy to use for a SS run (it would suck big time to screw it up in a SS run).

Also note at 0:33 in the video....yellow glitter glow, not sure what that's from, but definitely has to do with skipping the cutscene.  The second part of the video shows me setting off the trigger after letting down the ladder.  So now with this discovery, i'm shooting to be at 31:38 by the next save

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE490SMP2I8

Caveberry

2011-04-30 11:36:50 pm

trepidation

Nice time saver. It makes me wonder whether other cutscene skips could be done as easily....

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-05-02 12:52:44 am

2011-05-01 10:21:32 am

I look for cutscene skips like this at every spot there's a cutscene. Most of the time there's no way around the trigger point (or i just can't find a way), but occasionally there is. I've already skipped a few cutscenes in my run up to this point, definitely big time savers that are actually not too difficult to pull off once figuring out how to make them work.

EDIT: i just found a new way to do the fight against the birds at the beginning of segment 5 and it's 6 seconds faster than the method i showed in my previous bird fight video. It's pretty crazy fast and it's easy to do....just manipulating the position of the last bird and having Farah take it out with an arrow. I'll just save the video of it until i get a good segment 5 attempt Smiley

With this new strategy and a couple other improvements i found, i think i can get a 31:30 at the save point. I'm just about done with practicing for this segment...will start recorded attempts soon.

UCpro

2011-05-07 09:49:47 am

Segment 5 is finished!! Hope you all enjoy it Smiley

It's 47 seconds faster than the attempt i put up a couple weeks ago...and at that time i thought i could only improve it 10 seconds, lol. Found a lot of nice timesavers since then, and also found better methods for tighter execution throughout the segment. Read the video description for details. Time at the end of the segment is 31:20.

Reaver

2011-05-07 10:12:57 am

Awesome segment. Some nice timesavers in there. I'm glad my suggestion of getting closer to Farah worked out. Didn't realise you could manipulate her to taking both out that quickly though. Really nice find with the cutscene skip there too.

UCpro

2011-05-08 10:21:30 pm

Quote from Reaver:

Awesome segment. Some nice timesavers in there. I'm glad my suggestion of getting closer to Farah worked out. Didn't realise you could manipulate her to taking both out that quickly though. Really nice find with the cutscene skip there too.

thanks. it seems like new tricks and shortcuts are being discovered with every segment i get to. I can't wait to see how segment 6 comes together. Could take a looooooooooong time to figure this one out. Hardest segment of the run probably....has me worried a lot.

mikwuyma

2011-05-09 01:29:09 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

That was a great segment 5. Looking forward to segment 6, and if you can figure out what causes the game over loop doing the second sword shortcut.

Reaver

2011-05-09 03:40:04 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

That was a great segment 5. Looking forward to segment 6, and if you can figure out what causes the game over loop doing the second sword shortcut.

Yes, if you figure out what causes that bug and how to overcome it please post Cheesy

As for your segment 6 best of luck with it. Post any half decent attempts you get, or really bad ones. Might be able to figure out easier methods of dealing with the segment. Can't do much in terms of route testing due to work but i can spare time to look over any practice segments you have.

UCpro

2011-05-22 12:46:36 am

Quote from Reaver:

Quote from mikwuyma:

That was a great segment 5. Looking forward to segment 6, and if you can figure out what causes the game over loop doing the second sword shortcut.

Yes, if you figure out what causes that bug and how to overcome it please post Cheesy

Got back into this game again for the first time in a couple weeks, and i'm happy to say i found out how to avoid the game over during the second sword shortcut....super easy to do, and it works every single time. And it doesn't really cost any extra time which is nice Smiley

i'll post a video of how it works a little later, but i at least wanted to share the good news now. This is a super awesome find especially for a SS run since we won't have to worry about game over's at this part anymore.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-05-24 12:49:47 am

2011-05-24 12:49:04 am

here is a video showing what to do to prevent the game over loop during the second sword shortcut....

Basically the reason why the game over loop occurs is because the prince is too far away from Farah (this is why letting Farah through the crack prevents the game over from occurring....but that takes way too long to do for a speedrun). So, in order to prevent the game over I had to find a way to keep Farah close enough to the prince while doing the whole shortcut. To do this, i pause for a bit once swinging past the poles and you'll see in the video that Farah will eventually come over to the spot directly under where i paused. In the video i pause excessively long (about 10 seconds...mainly to show Farah climbing up the waterfall to get closer to the prince), but you only really need to pause for about 1 second and Farah will most likely move to the spot directly under where you pause. I say most likely because sometimes she will get stuck in battle with enemies and will take some extra time to follow you....which means in a SS run it will be important to handle this exactly like i do in this video (point the camera to the right and wait for Farah to climb up the waterfall before continuing.

You can use any shortcut (satvara's wallrun method or the rewind trick which i show in the video). I have had 100% success with not getting game overs using this strategy, so as of now it looks like a solid fix for the second sword shortcut.

here is a video showing what to do to prevent the game over loop during the second sword shortcut....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfRCU35h4Ro

Basically the reason why the game over loop occurs is because the prince is too far away from Farah (this is why letting Farah through the crack prevents the game over from occurring....but that takes way too long to do for a speedrun).  So, in order to prevent the game over I had to find a way to keep Farah close enough to the prince while doing the whole shortcut.  To do this, i pause for a bit once swinging past the poles and you'll see in the video that Farah will eventually come over to the spot directly under where i paused.  In the video i pause excessively long (about 10 seconds...mainly to show Farah climbing up the waterfall to get closer to the prince), but you only really need to pause for about 1 second and Farah will most likely move to the spot directly under where you pause.  I say most likely because sometimes she will get stuck in battle with enemies and will take some extra time to follow you....which means in a SS run it will be important to handle this exactly like i do in this video (point the camera to the right and wait for Farah to climb up the waterfall before continuing.

You can use any shortcut (satvara's wallrun method or the rewind trick which i show in the video).  I have had 100% success with not getting game overs using this strategy, so as of now it looks like a solid fix for the second sword shortcut.

Caveberry

2011-05-24 02:10:12 am

trepidation

Great news! I was just getting ready to bump this thread to see how things were going, and was pleased to see you are already making some progress.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2011-05-25 07:18:47 pm

2011-05-25 03:03:22 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Nice! I thought the game over loop had something to do with Farah's positioning (since she always seems to die if you're too far away).

I'm guessing you didn't run along the left wall before pushing the cabinet because this was just a demonstration video?

EDIT: Nice rewind trick.

BaronHaynes

2011-05-25 06:43:05 pm

Strange days, incredible days

The amount of route strategy in this run is bewildering, it's really fun to follow all these discoveries as you're making them. Keep at it Smiley

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-05-25 11:44:01 pm

2011-05-25 11:42:30 pm

I've actually never run along that wall before, guess i should since wallrunning is faster that normal running. For the most part i have everything figured out for segment 6 except the mess hall section. It might take a while to figure out the best strategy for that, although i have a feeling it may be to use Satvara's method which is very difficult. Hopefully i can have a decent segment 6 attempt up sometime soon after i figure that section out.

Right now i really need to figure out when i'll get Haste. I for sure know i'll need it for the elevator section late in the game, but i'm curious to see if i can get it for the fight to spawn the save point at the beginning of the observatory (i had it at that point in my practice run, but i had a lot more enemy encounters in that run that i don't have in this one). I think i need to retrieve the sands from 36 more enemies to get it. Speaking of the observatory, i found this video....

(skip to 1:50 in the video)

.....need to see if this could be of any use.

I've actually never run along that wall before, guess i should since wallrunning is faster that normal running.  For the most part i have everything figured out for segment 6 except the mess hall section.  It might take a while to figure out the best strategy for that, although i have a feeling it may be to use Satvara's method which is very difficult.  Hopefully i can have a decent segment 6 attempt up sometime soon after i figure that section out.

Right now i really need to figure out when i'll get Haste.  I for sure know i'll need it for the elevator section late in the game, but i'm curious to see if i can get it for the fight to spawn the save point at the beginning of the observatory (i had it at that point in my practice run, but i had a lot more enemy encounters in that run that i don't have in this one).  I think i need to retrieve the sands from 36 more enemies to get it.  Speaking of the observatory, i found this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxOpgatw6ao&feature=player_embedded (skip to 1:50 in the video)

.....need to see if this could be of any use.

Reaver

2011-05-26 02:15:19 pm

If you can pull that off by running straight up to the platform and jumping at the right angle straight away it would be easier than setting up the jump onto the railings on the other side.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-06-01 02:48:49 am

2011-06-01 02:46:34 am

Does anyone know whether or not you need to do the fight at the beginning of the observatory? i might have to do a quick playthrough up to that part to find out.....wondering if i could skip that fight and just do the shortcut.

Reaver

2011-06-01 07:40:40 am

IIRC you can skip the fight and go straight to the shortcut. I think Farah squeezes through the gap in the wall once you're on the other side.

If you do skip it, can you still get haste by the time you get to the lift? You are skipping more enemies than in your practice run. If you need 36 more sand monsters to get haste, perhaps 1 or 2 kills along the way might help, although it will cost you some time.

UCpro

2011-06-01 08:43:27 am

Quote from Reaver:

IIRC you can skip the fight and go straight to the shortcut. I think Farah squeezes through the gap in the wall once you're on the other side.

If you do skip it, can you still get haste by the time you get to the lift? You are skipping more enemies than in your practice run. If you need 36 more sand monsters to get haste, perhaps 1 or 2 kills along the way might help, although it will cost you some time.

I'm going to do a play through from where i'm at now up to the elevator fight and see exactly which enemies i need to kill in order to have haste for that part. I knew that this was going to be the trickiest part of planning for the run, hopefully i'll get to this game within the next couple weeks to test this. I'm busy through this next weekend and won't be able to touch the game until a week from now.

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2011-06-01 01:16:51 pm

2011-06-01 01:01:23 pm

Breakdown of requirements for Haste:

Total of 64 enemies absorbed into the dagger (16 for 1 power gauge to be added)

So far you have absorbed 29 including the Prince's Father. If he counts towards the total then you need 35 more sand monsters, 36 if he doesn't.

List of potential sand you can get for haste and those battles you will have to do unless you figure another way. These are along the route taken so should be in order.

Potential - Before the mess hall you have to break through a wall. A lot of the time 2 or 3 sand monsters will stand in your way (Number depends on how many Farah distracts) If you are lucky might get through without fighting any.

Assuming you skip the mess hall fight.

Required battle - Baths - 25 Sand Monsters
Required battle - Hall of Learning - 5 Sand Monsters (6th left alive to stop others from spawning)

Potential - Depends on how you segment in the later sections of the game. You can either take them all out in the observatory. At this point you only need 5/6 more to get haste (assuming you absorbed all the ones prior to this section). If you can skip this fight you might want to segment outside where the palm tree is by killing the 4 soldiers with the big swords. There is the large group of enemies before the prison section which you could also end the segment. OR if you continue past this without ending the segment then:

Required battle - Prison - 4 Sand Monsters (5th one left alive so you can move box without others spawning)
Required battle - Elevator - 26 Sand Monsters

If you skip the potential sand you could get along the way you will need to kill either 1/2 on the elevator before you can use haste assuming that you have absorbed all the enemies into the dagger. Enemies at the elevator continuously spawn in so if you do need to kill more than 2 using Haste won't be wasted waiting for another wave of enemies.

Breakdown of requirements for Haste:

Total of 64 enemies absorbed into the dagger (16 for 1 power gauge to be added)

So far you have absorbed 29 including the Prince's Father. If he counts towards the total then you need 35 more sand monsters, 36 if he doesn't.

List of potential sand you can get for haste and those battles you will have to do unless you figure another way. These are along the route taken so should be in order.

[i][b]Potential[/b][/i] - Before the mess hall you have to break through a wall. A lot of the time 2 or 3 sand monsters will stand in your way (Number depends on how many Farah distracts) If you are lucky might get through without fighting any.

Assuming you skip the mess hall fight.

[b]Required battle[/b] - Baths - 25 Sand Monsters
[b]Required battle[/b] - Hall of Learning - 5 Sand Monsters (6th left alive to stop others from spawning)

[i][b]Potential[/b][/i] - Depends on how you segment in the later sections of the game. You can either take them all out in the observatory. At this point you only need 5/6 more to get haste (assuming you absorbed all the ones prior to this section). If you can skip this fight you might want to segment outside where the palm tree is by killing the 4 soldiers with the big swords. There is the large group of enemies before the prison section which you could also end the segment. OR if you continue past this without ending the segment then:

[b]Required battle[/b] - Prison - 4 Sand Monsters (5th one left alive so you can move box without others spawning)
[b]Required battle[/b] - Elevator - 26 Sand Monsters

If you skip the potential sand you could get along the way you will need to kill either 1/2 on the elevator before you can use haste assuming that you have absorbed all the enemies into the dagger. Enemies at the elevator continuously spawn in so if you do need to kill more than 2 using Haste won't be wasted waiting for another wave of enemies.

UCpro

Edit history:

UCpro: 2011-06-02 12:56:44 am

2011-06-02 12:49:01 am

thanks reaver for putting that all together. My initial plan is to skip all the enemies until the 25 enemies in the baths (i did some more testing and it turns out i'm going to use Satvara's method for getting through the mess hall...and that scares me because of how difficult it will be). Then i'll kill the 5 enemies in the hall of learning. After that i'm not sure yet.....i'd like to skip the observatory fight if that works with my segmenting. Are there only the 4 soldiers with big swords outside by the palm tree (no more enemies spawn after them)? if so, that would be a quick way to spawn a save point. So there's 34 total. Then the 4 in the prison would make 38. I think that would be the best plan as far as time savings.

Wanted to share a few more time savers i found.....i found a way to skip the cutscene at 1:30 in my practice run segment 10. Will save 11 seconds. Also found a way to skip the cutscene in this same video at 3:20....that will save 16 seconds.

I also have a new idea for a spot to end segment 7....see the save portal at 1:37 in my practice segment 10? Since we have to swing on the first couple poles to trigger the loading correctly anyways, why not just swing a couple more poles to that save spot? Then start the next segment and use the rewind trick to jump to the ledge with the sand cloud shown at 2:20. I need to test whether this is faster or slower, or if it takes the same amount of time.....but it's another option for segmenting. If i decided to end my segment 7 here, i would most likely end my segment 8 where i ended my practice run segment 12. That would cut out the save i had originally planned for my segment 7 (the same save i used for my practice run segment 10), and that is making me think this new segmenting idea will save me time.

thanks reaver for putting that all together.  My initial plan is to skip all the enemies until the 25 enemies in the baths (i did some more testing and it turns out i'm going to use Satvara's method for getting through the mess hall...and that scares me because of how difficult it will be).  Then i'll kill the 5 enemies in the hall of learning.  After that i'm not sure yet.....i'd like to skip the observatory fight if that works with my segmenting.  Are there only the 4 soldiers with big swords outside by the palm tree (no more enemies spawn after them)?  if so, that would be a quick way to spawn a save point.  So there's 34 total.  Then the 4 in the prison would make 38.  I think that would be the best plan as far as time savings.

Wanted to share a few more time savers i found.....i found a way to skip the cutscene at 1:30 in my practice run segment 10.  Will save 11 seconds.  Also found a way to skip the cutscene in this same video at 3:20....that will save 16 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRLj8LTpvI

I also have a new idea for a spot to end segment 7....see the save portal at 1:37 in my practice segment 10?  Since we have to swing on the first couple poles to trigger the loading correctly anyways, why not just swing a couple more poles to that save spot?  Then start the next segment and use the rewind trick to jump to the ledge with the sand cloud shown at 2:20.  I need to test whether this is faster or slower, or if it takes the same amount of time.....but it's another option for segmenting.  If i decided to end my segment 7 here, i would most likely end my segment 8 where i ended my practice run segment 12.  That would cut out the save i had originally planned for my segment 7 (the same save i used for my practice run segment 10), and that is making me think this new segmenting idea will save me time.

Reaver

Edit history:

Reaver: 2011-06-02 09:53:24 am

2011-06-02 09:27:27 am

Quote from UCpro:

Are there only the 4 soldiers with big swords outside by the palm tree (no more enemies spawn after them)? if so, that would be a quick way to spawn a save point. So there's 34 total. Then the 4 in the prison would make 38. I think that would be the best plan as far as time savings.

My bad it's actually 5 Sand Monsters there, so You'd be on 35 if you take them out. No others spawn once you defeat them. It's easiest to kill them if you stay close to the wall by the palm tree on the left as you enter that area. They tend to all teleport around you there, plus its close to the save point.

Quote from UCpro:

Wanted to share a few more time savers i found.....i found a way to skip the cutscene at 1:30 in my practice run segment 10. Will save 11 seconds. Also found a way to skip the cutscene in this same video at 3:20....that will save 16 seconds.

Yeah the one at 1:30 I knew about. Was going to mention it once you got to that segment. If you draw your weapon and jump off the inside of the door frame and over the cutscene trigger you can skip it. The one at 3:20 I'm not aware of. Did you grab the edge of the ledge and shimmy along to the narrow log?

Quote from UCpro:

I also have a new idea for a spot to end segment 7....see the save portal at 1:37 in my practice segment 10? Since we have to swing on the first couple poles to trigger the loading correctly anyways, why not just swing a couple more poles to that save spot? Then start the next segment and use the rewind trick to jump to the ledge with the sand cloud shown at 2:20. I need to test whether this is faster or slower, or if it takes the same amount of time.....but it's another option for segmenting. If i decided to end my segment 7 here, i would most likely end my segment 8 where i ended my practice run segment 12. That would cut out the save i had originally planned for my segment 7 (the same save i used for my practice run segment 10), and that is making me think this new segmenting idea will save me time.

Timing from the point you rewind when on the poles to the point where you get across to the platform with the sand cloud is 30 seconds. More time could be saved if you can get a perfect run along the narrow walk way without stopping. It might take longer going across the poles, saving and then using the rewind trick to get across. Worth a try though.

If you do save out by the palm tree after the observatory perhaps you could try jumping off the palm tree closer to the lever at the top. Its possible and will save some time. Here's a demo of it with some other ideas I had that did and didn't pay off. Sorry for the sound quality.

EDIT: I should add on the last part of the video I have not located a section you can go to without falling down and restarting at the top unless you fall at the collapsing bridge section. My hope was to fall down the well or something so when it restarted it might load at the section where you jump out of the well after you escape the prison.

[quote="UCpro"]Are there only the 4 soldiers with big swords outside by the palm tree (no more enemies spawn after them)?  if so, that would be a quick way to spawn a save point.  So there's 34 total.  Then the 4 in the prison would make 38.  I think that would be the best plan as far as time savings.[/quote]

My bad it's actually 5 Sand Monsters there, so You'd be on 35 if you take them out. No others spawn once you defeat them. It's easiest to kill them if you stay close to the wall by the palm tree on the left as you enter that area. They tend to all teleport around you there, plus its close to the save point.

[quote="UCpro"]Wanted to share a few more time savers i found.....i found a way to skip the cutscene at 1:30 in my practice run segment 10.  Will save 11 seconds.  Also found a way to skip the cutscene in this same video at 3:20....that will save 16 seconds.[/quote]

Yeah the one at 1:30 I knew about. Was going to mention it once you got to that segment. If you draw your weapon and jump off the inside of the door frame and over the cutscene trigger you can skip it. The one at 3:20 I'm not aware of. Did you grab the edge of the ledge and shimmy along to the narrow log?

[quote="UCpro"]I also have a new idea for a spot to end segment 7....see the save portal at 1:37 in my practice segment 10?  Since we have to swing on the first couple poles to trigger the loading correctly anyways, why not just swing a couple more poles to that save spot?  Then start the next segment and use the rewind trick to jump to the ledge with the sand cloud shown at 2:20.  I need to test whether this is faster or slower, or if it takes the same amount of time.....but it's another option for segmenting.  If i decided to end my segment 7 here, i would most likely end my segment 8 where i ended my practice run segment 12.  That would cut out the save i had originally planned for my segment 7 (the same save i used for my practice run segment 10), and that is making me think this new segmenting idea will save me time.[/quote]

Timing from the point you rewind when on the poles to the point where you get across to the platform with the sand cloud is 30 seconds. More time could be saved if you can get a perfect run along the narrow walk way without stopping. It might take longer going across the poles, saving and then using the rewind trick to get across. Worth a try though.

If you do save out by the palm tree after the observatory perhaps you could try jumping off the palm tree closer to the lever at the top. Its possible and will save some time. Here's a demo of it with some other ideas I had that did and didn't pay off. Sorry for the sound quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32mwzIxbZw0

EDIT: I should add on the last part of the video I have not located a section you can go to without falling down and restarting at the top unless you fall at the collapsing bridge section. My hope was to fall down the well or something so when it restarted it might load at the section where you jump out of the well after you escape the prison.

UCpro

2011-06-02 01:17:15 pm

wow, that's awesome....if we could find a way to skip from before the collapsing bridge part all the way to the elevator part, that would be HUGE!! Curious to see if that rewind trick to get to lower parts of levels could be used anywhere else....is it hard to pull off consistently? I remember trying something like that before, but never could get anything to work.

Reaver

2011-06-02 01:39:51 pm

Yeah it would be a huge timesaver if it can be done.

Its tricky to pull off. It doesn't work from too great a height either. I think once the Prince goes too far into his falling motion it doesn't work. I normally rewind either before he screams or just as he starts too. Seems to work that way. If you can get it to work by the 2nd rewind you can perform the trick twice from a greater height by repeating the process further down.... At least I think you can. It looked like it would work but the height I was falling was too great to test it properly (Top of Prison to the bottom). I'll give it another shot soon.

Reaver

2011-06-03 04:01:08 pm

Quick update: After fiddling around with skipping the prison, I've had very little luck so far. If you approach the bridge you fall through the floor. I was hoping to activate a trigger by falling through the floor into the prison then rewinding. You can skip the cutscene of the Prince falling into the Prison and fall directly onto the bridge although it kills you. Attempting to rewind from this position you can rewind to the position you fell from, but you can only fall from this position and not move back into the courtyard area. I have little spare time to do more testing at the moment. I will upload a short demo of my attempts when I get some time.