Prince Of Persia 2: The shadow and the flame?

2005-08-18 08:12:57 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Is anybody making a run of this old dos game? Its way harder than POP1 as far as I can remember. I made it all to the round tower once but now I can't pass the "red" castle level anymore :). If someone is attemping this it should be very awesome to see. POP1 already was done once before but the creator said it could have been improved on several points.

Greetings Smiley

Thread title:

MMAN

2005-08-18 12:32:54 pm

I'm sure I heard something about the game being bugged such that it is literally impossible to complete, but as I don't have it I can't say if it's true, I might be thinking of some other game.

Flashy

2005-08-18 01:00:13 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Bugged? Well I had some weird glitches when I ran it in DOS but now it works fine.

Morfans

2005-08-18 01:26:44 pm

Hell is where the heart is.

I would love to see both the original and Shadow and Flame run.

I loved those games. (except the annoying medusa head things. they were soooo annoying).

Flashy

2005-08-18 06:58:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Yea those heads could sucks your entire life points right out of you if you didn't fight back. But sometimes the snakes were even more annoying when you couldn't see them and suddenly snap. The hardest part start in the last level with in the ruins with the horse statue (goddamn I tried it so many times to get it right I even made a drawing to plan my approach). And then the last levels with the "eagle" soldiers are just madness lol. The first one and second are fine but the one with the 15 floor up with this huge gap were you need to jump over is insane, on top of that you only had one shot at it and if you were to slow the door would close on the other side. Tongue

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-18 09:30:07 pm

2005-08-18 09:20:51 pm

You mentioned THE game I can speedrun with my hands behind my back. Tongue

Luckily, it's on POP: Sands of Time on the XBox. I'll have to move the XBox to my room to record though. Wink

I owned the game the day it came out for DOS. I have the official strategy guide as well, even converted it to HTML. POP2 is one of the best games ever made.

You can call me a classic Prince of Persia guru and expert.

I'll speedrun it. But I have FAQs, my EWJ speedrun, webpages, and real life stuff like work and my sister's wedding as well. I'll try.

I'll keep it in mind though. The reason why I have lots of stuff on the go is so that I always have something to fall back on when I'm stumped or need a break.

I'll try a preliminary run tonight. My guess, it'll be multi-segmented, thanks to some of the tougher parts of the games.

And no, the game isn't glitchy at all, unless you mean the SNES version, which is the worst porting job ever, for any game and any system.

Those medusa heads are all about timing. And if you're by a wall, you can smash them into it and have a one hit kill.

BTW, the strategy (one of the BEST ever made, it's like a novel), is located here:

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/poplegacy/PoPStory1-34.shtml

or the Table of Contents with the cover:

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/poplegacy/POPStory/index.html

You mentioned THE game I can speedrun with my hands behind my back. :P

Luckily, it's on POP: Sands of Time on the XBox. I'll have to move the XBox to my room to record though. ;)

I owned the game the day it came out for DOS. I have the official strategy guide as well, even converted it to HTML. POP2 is one of the best games ever made.

You can call me a classic Prince of Persia guru and expert.

I'll speedrun it. But I have FAQs, my EWJ speedrun, webpages, and real life stuff like work and my sister's wedding as well. I'll try.

I'll keep it in mind though. The reason why I have lots of stuff on the go is so that I always have something to fall back on when I'm stumped or need a break.

I'll try a preliminary run tonight. My guess, it'll be multi-segmented, thanks to some of the tougher parts of the games.

And no, the game isn't glitchy at all, unless you mean the SNES version, which is the worst porting job ever, for any game and any system.

Those medusa heads are all about timing. And if you're by a wall, you can smash them into it and have a one hit kill.

BTW, the strategy (one of the BEST ever made, it's like a novel), is located here:

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/poplegacy/PoPStory1-34.shtml

or the Table of Contents with the cover:

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/poplegacy/POPStory/index.html

Flashy

2005-08-18 09:32:24 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

I'll speedrun it. But I have FAQs, my EWJ speed
webpages, and real life stuff like work and my sister's wedding as well. I'll try.

Oh I can't wait to see it but ofcourse take all time you need Grin

Quote:

Those medusa heads are all about timing. And if you're by a wall, you can smash them into it and have a one hit kill.

Yep I know, the head when you come thru a gate and in front of you is a tunnel entrance will come to you and then when you hit the head it disapears into the wall that's how I found out that one. I even was so into the game that I managed to get all the "super health potions' in the cave levels which ofcourse is quite hard well for me anyway.

Quote:

And no, the game isn't glitchy at all, unless you mean the SNES version

Yep hehe I can't make it to the beach level with that version, but then again POP1 on the SNES was quite good.

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-18 09:44:06 pm

2005-08-18 09:43:35 pm

Yeah, POP1 on the SNES is one of the best games ever made, and the best version of POP1. That was by Konami, the best game developer ever.

POP2 for the SNES was made my Tidus, which hasn't made a good game since Fire and Forget 2 for the PC (another game I owned :P).

If you love POP, you should read through the strategy guide. Wink

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-19 06:41:28 am

2005-08-19 06:05:24 am

Okay, here's how the run tonite is going so far:

My save at Temple 1 (Level 10) has 62 minutes left. That's approximately 10-15 minutes less than my normal time (my time for Level 11 on a normal game is 44 minutes left). And my normal time is picking every life expansion up, since I'm a completist. I lost a few seconds dying once at the collapsing bridge (it restarts you right before it) and right after you get your father's sword (dying puts you right before the 9 medusa heads you have to kill).

I haven't picked up any life expansion potions, so I have a whole three hits to death (that means medusa heads can kill me with one attack with luck). I plan on picking up the expansion in level 12, since it's along the path to opening up the four gates. I'll pick up all the rest I need from the guards in the last level. I can't remember how many expansions I need to be able to turn to the shadow in the end of the game, but if I need a certain amount, I'll work on getting my life up as fast as possible. Also, I took the right path in the ruins, the left path may or not be faster.

So I'm assuming I'm doing quite well. Since this is a preliminary run, I have fine tuning to do. My time for this level in the final version might be more or less, depending on if picking up expansions during the game is faster or not.

I'm stopping for the night since I have to get up tomorrow morning. But I'll keep you all posted. Since I know this game like the back of my hand, getting a good basic run set up should be pretty painless.

A side note. It looks like timing each level is the only way. Since the game doesn't start the timer (75 mins) until you fail level 4 or start level 5.

I plan on doing a segmented run, as I mentioned. I'll make it so the cutscenes are at the end of every segment. The only exception being the opening demo (I'll proabaly have that as a different video) and when you get your father's sword. This way those who haven't played the game (and those that have only played the SNES version, with less cutscenes) will see the game's story. So, yeah, 15 levels (14 and 15 are together), with the opening cutscene. So, 15 segments is the plan.

I would segment it more to make the run slightly easier, but the XBox doesn't let you save at the continue points in the long levels, like on the PC. :| Guess I'll just have to get better at the game.

If only my EWJ run (which will be single segment) was this easy...

Okay, here's how the run tonite is going so far:

My save at Temple 1 (Level 10) has 62 minutes left. That's approximately 10-15 minutes less than my normal time (my time for Level 11 on a normal game is 44 minutes left). And my normal time is picking every life expansion up, since I'm a completist. I lost a few seconds dying once at the collapsing bridge (it restarts you right before it) and right after you get your father's sword (dying puts you right before the 9 medusa heads you have to kill).

I haven't picked up any life expansion potions, so I have a whole three hits to death (that means medusa heads can kill me with one attack with luck). I plan on picking up the expansion in level 12, since it's along the path to opening up the four gates. I'll pick up all the rest I need from the guards in the last level. I can't remember how many expansions I need to be able to turn to the shadow in the end of the game, but if I need a certain amount, I'll work on getting my life up as fast as possible. Also, I took the right path in the ruins, the left path may or not be faster.

So I'm assuming I'm doing quite well. Since this is a preliminary run, I have fine tuning to do. My time for this level in the final version might be more or less, depending on if picking up expansions during the game is faster or not.

I'm stopping for the night since I have to get up tomorrow morning. But I'll keep you all posted. Since I know this game like the back of my hand, getting a good basic run set up should be pretty painless.

A side note. It looks like timing each level is the only way. Since the game doesn't start the timer (75 mins) until you fail level 4 or start level 5.

I plan on doing a segmented run, as I mentioned. I'll make it so the cutscenes are at the end of every segment. The only exception being the opening demo (I'll proabaly have that as a different video) and when you get your father's sword. This way those who haven't played the game (and those that have only played the SNES version, with less cutscenes) will see the game's story. So, yeah, 15 levels (14 and 15 are together), with the opening cutscene. So, 15 segments is the plan.

I would segment it more to make the run slightly easier, but the XBox doesn't let you save at the continue points in the long levels, like on the PC. :| Guess I'll just have to get better at the game.

If only my EWJ run (which will be single segment) was this easy...

Flashy

2005-08-19 09:10:44 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I don't know if its a bug or glitch but in level 6 when you started the door directly behind you in the beginning of the level was open so you could complete the level in just a second with the sword intact (the broken one) for the next level. Cheesy

Flashy

2005-08-19 12:48:48 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

btw do you know what that "magic sword" is in the fortress levels. I jumped near it and it floated of the ground and is impossible to destroy it. I think it was the same level with that little fellow in that bottle. Cheesy

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-19 10:12:21 pm

2005-08-19 10:02:33 pm

Quote:

I don't know if its a bug or glitch but in level 6 when you started the door directly behind you in the beginning of the level was open so you could complete the level in just a second with the sword intact (the broken one) for the next level. Cheesy

btw do you know what that "magic sword" is in the fortress levels. I jumped near it and it floated of the ground and is impossible to destroy it. I think it was the same level with that little fellow in that bottle.

Hmm... don't know about that glitch you mean. You mean when you first get to the ruins? That door behind you is always closed. Please elaborate.

That magic sword is just a distraction. You can't beat it. You simply have to just switch places with it and run. It's the easier way to finish the level compared to going all the way down to the guy in the bottle.

[edit] Alrighty, I just looked up the glitch online, and apparently you can run up the stairs before the door closes. I haven't been able to get this to work. I'm at work, playing the DOS version though. Maybe it'll work on the XBox. Or it could be a Mac glitch, though I don't have a Mac emulator installed anymore.

In any case, I'll look more into this glitch.[/edit]

[quote]I don't know if its a bug or glitch but in level 6 when you started the door directly behind you in the beginning of the level was open so you could complete the level in just a second with the sword intact (the broken one) for the next level.  :D

btw do you know what that "magic sword" is in the fortress levels. I jumped near it and it floated of the ground and is impossible to destroy it. I think it was the same level with that little fellow in that bottle.[/quote]

Hmm... don't know about that glitch you mean. You mean when you first get to the ruins? That door behind you is always closed. Please elaborate.

That magic sword is just a distraction. You can't beat it. You simply have to just switch places with it and run. It's the easier way to finish the level compared to going all the way down to the guy in the bottle.

[edit] Alrighty, I just looked up the glitch online, and apparently you can run up the stairs before the door closes. I haven't been able to get this to work. I'm at work, playing the DOS version though. Maybe it'll work on the XBox. Or it could be a Mac glitch, though I don't have a Mac emulator installed anymore.

In any case, I'll look more into this glitch.[/edit]

Flashy

2005-08-19 10:21:19 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Maybe POP2 had different versions, I don't know but when I played it on DOS/Win98 the door was just open.

From the FAQ:

Quote:

--------------
PART 1: GLITCH
--------------

Remember this part below? Yes, that's a glitch, and I have recieved countless e-mails
regarding this. I suspected something was amiss - Jordan Mechner would have never made
the game so easy! The real, true, complete guide to get past this area is below this
subtopic, titled "THE REAL STUFF".

Ouch! Rough landing? Well, that's the least of your problems for now. You should be
standing at the edge of a high cliff. Take a look at the scenery around you. You seem
to be at the entrance of an abandoned city. The path to the right leads to a 100-metre
drop (maybe more), so go left. You find yourself inside an ancient... Well, dungeon of
some sort. This is the easiest level of 'em all. Perhaps there was a glitch. Perhaps I
accidentally hacked the game. Or, perhaps this is the easiest level of all. Anyway, the
minute you step into the dungeon, you find yourself standing directly beside an open
level door. Just run up and end the level. By the way, if you notice, there is a snake-
like symbol (think the letter S with a loop at its end) on the walls. You'll meet this
symbol again much later in the game. This doesn't make any sense... Oh, I forgot. Never
question the logical probabilities of this game...

And you can bypass a head by killed it using a loose floor section. It's the level with 2 starts.

Maybe POP2 had different versions, I don't know but when I played it on DOS/Win98 the door was just open.

From the FAQ:

[quote]--------------
PART 1: GLITCH
--------------

Remember this part below? Yes, that's a glitch, and I have recieved countless e-mails
regarding this. I suspected something was amiss - Jordan Mechner would have never made
the game so easy! The real, true, complete guide to get past this area is below this
subtopic, titled "THE REAL STUFF".

Ouch! Rough landing? Well, that's the least of your problems for now. You should be
standing at the edge of a high cliff. Take a look at the scenery around you. You seem
to be at the entrance of an abandoned city. The path to the right leads to a 100-metre
drop (maybe more), so go left. You find yourself inside an ancient... Well, dungeon of
some sort. This is the easiest level of 'em all. Perhaps there was a glitch. Perhaps I
accidentally hacked the game. Or, perhaps this is the easiest level of all. Anyway, the
minute you step into the dungeon, you find yourself standing directly beside an open
level door. Just run up and end the level. By the way, if you notice, there is a snake-
like symbol (think the letter S with a loop at its end) on the walls. You'll meet this
symbol again much later in the game. This doesn't make any sense... Oh, I forgot. Never
question the logical probabilities of this game...[/quote]

And you can bypass a head by killed it using a loose floor section. It's the level with 2 starts.

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-19 10:55:25 pm

2005-08-19 10:31:42 pm

Yeah, I just read the FAQ. The door closes right away for me, every time. I'm running the DOS version with VDM Sound. But in all my years of playing I'm sure I've never seen that door stay open. I'm guessing it's a glitch with DOS emulation or possibly DOS Box. I'll keep checking it out. If it's an emulation problem, I seriously doubt it would abide by the speedrunning rules.

Have you ever gotten the glitch to work? If so, how?

As for killing the heads with ceiling tiles, since the heads move in a random pattern, there's no guarantee that it'll work most of the time.

I'll try the XBox version when I get home as well, but this is the first I've ever heard of such a glitch. I have yet to believe that it works.

Flashy

Edit history:

Flashy: 2005-08-19 11:30:40 pm

2005-08-19 11:30:16 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Quote:

Have you ever gotten the glitch to work? If so, how?

Well It just was open and I was not running DOSbox at that time because I guess I didn't even was released back then.

elbryan42

2005-08-19 11:34:33 pm

Hmm... wonder if you have to trigger the glitch some how. I just run right, from the cliff and appear inside. The door shuts behind me immediately before I can do anything.

I just tried it without VDM Sound, and still doesn't work.

Flashy

2005-08-20 08:46:11 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I've tested it to several times now, it closed after you run into the ruins so lets just forgot about that glitch then. Smiley

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-20 09:35:07 am

2005-08-20 09:24:26 am

Groovy. Well, I've done a second run, up to Temple 2 this time, on the PC (though I have to deal with no sound, since it locks up intermittently when I have sound on). At the halfway checkpoint in Temple 2, I'm at 60 mins. So I'm beating my previous speedrun time by about 1-2 minutes. Smiley

Don't know how much more I can tweak it. You need 7 health bottles to turn into shadow form. So there's the Life Expansion in Temple 3 along the normal path, and Altar along the path. That would mean I have to pick up two more on the last level. I remember those guards being quite difficult.

And let me tell you, the Temple is quite tough, defeating sometimes 4 birdmen at once, with only three health bottles. And since some puzzles require you to take a hit, that means most of the time I can't get hit more than once in swordfights. Geez. Tongue

I'll keep trying tomorrow. If I can prove that I can finish the game with the bare minimum, then all I have to do is tweak my way through. Those goblin heads are quite random, sometimes making you wait for them to notice you from above, which can suck away precious seconds.

BTW, a trick I'm using for swordfights is to defeat the birdmen at the edge of the screen. If you're at the edge, no more will come from that way. This way, if you do it right except for two or three (maybe four) times, you only have to defeat one at a time.

[edit] Now that I think about it, in Temple 3, with the path that takes you to the room with the little man potion, it may be shorter than the path with the life expansion, since I have to go all the way down there to circle around from the flaming sword. Hmm...

I guess the fun of Prince of Persia is finding the right path in the mazes. Tongue

That's what the new POP games don't have. That's why the classic ones are much better.[/edit]

Groovy. Well, I've done a second run, up to Temple 2 this time, on the PC (though I have to deal with no sound, since it locks up intermittently when I have sound on). At the halfway checkpoint in Temple 2, I'm at 60 mins. So I'm beating my previous speedrun time by about 1-2 minutes. :)

Don't know how much more I can tweak it. You need 7 health bottles to turn into shadow form. So there's the Life Expansion in Temple 3 along the normal path, and Altar along the path. That would mean I have to pick up two more on the last level. I remember those guards being quite difficult.

And let me tell you, the Temple is quite tough, defeating sometimes 4 birdmen at once, with only three health bottles. And since some puzzles require you to take a hit, that means most of the time I can't get hit more than once in swordfights. Geez. :P

I'll keep trying tomorrow. If I can prove that I can finish the game with the bare minimum, then all I have to do is tweak my way through. Those goblin heads are quite random, sometimes making you wait for them to notice you from above, which can suck away precious seconds.

BTW, a trick I'm using for swordfights is to defeat the birdmen at the edge of the screen. If you're at the edge, no more will come from that way. This way, if you do it right except for two or three (maybe four) times, you only have to defeat one at a time.

[edit] Now that I think about it, in Temple 3, with the path that takes you to the room with the little man potion, it may be shorter than the path with the life expansion, since I have to go all the way down there to circle around from the flaming sword. Hmm...

I guess the fun of Prince of Persia is finding the right path in the mazes. :P

That's what the new POP games don't have. That's why the classic ones are much better.[/edit]

Flashy

Edit history:

Flashy: 2005-08-20 10:32:07 am

2005-08-20 10:30:15 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well It's quite easy to get all the expansion potions in the caves. There are 3-4? So that will nearly is enough then.

Quote:

And let me tell you, the Temple is quite tough, defeating sometimes 4 birdmen at once, with only three health bottles. And since some puzzles require you to take a hit, that means most of the time I can't get hit more than once in swordfights. Geez.

=) Yea if you rush it you'll surely die, back in the Dos/Win98 days they sometimes even surrounded me leaving me no chance to escape Shocked

Btw, the hardest level for me was the second temple level with 2 of those long jump over a long way down I mean how frustrating is when the prince jump to early or to late. hehe.

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-20 04:45:10 pm

2005-08-20 04:43:36 pm

Nah, Temple 2 is easy. Tongue

The only thing that's frustrating for me (being on that level) is getting hit only once or less by the final birdman so I can finish the puzzle at the end that requires you to lose a health jar.

And about the life expansions. The thing is, which is faster? Collecting the life expansions from the tough guards at the end of the game or going off the beaten path in the rest of the game? A lot of those expansions take precious minutes to collect. So, I have to try to go through with the bear minimum and decide which expansions throughout the game are fastest to get.

elbryan42

2005-08-20 06:24:33 pm

Just got to Temple 3 without any life expansions. 56 mins left! Smiley

Flashy

2005-08-20 07:42:24 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Very nice! Cheesy

How do you record the run btw? Huh?

elbryan42

2005-08-20 08:20:33 pm

I'll probably be recording from the XBox to a VCR, then get my friend to encode that. I haven't started thinking about recording yet though.

I'll need much more practice though, since you can't save midlevel on XBox. So, the trial and error tactic I've been using on the PC (without sound) won't work. That means I'll have to finish the Temple levels in one shot per level without dying. Against all those birdmen. That would be tough. :|

Flashy

2005-08-21 10:36:16 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I've made some maps for POP2:

Click here

elbryan42

Edit history:

elbryan42: 2005-08-21 04:24:17 pm

2005-08-21 04:22:57 pm

Wow! Awesome! Much better than black and white scans from the strategy guide. Wink

Thanks dude. I'm downloading the RAR right now.